Powers that would need to change if Hasten gets nerfed

[Galaxy Brain]

29 minutes ago, Naraka said:

I think your premise is an illusion.

 

What makes you think you were entitled to Perma-PA or Chronoshift?  If suddenly those powers could not be made always-up powers, I can guarantee those sets would still function just fine.

Because other sets can perma their signature abilities without the same investment, and that seems questionable 

[Grouchybeast]

1 hour ago, Zepp said:

My secondary position is that if Hasten is nerfed, the powersets most significantly harmed by the loss of Hasten will need to be adjusted. This thread is about identifying specific powersets/powers that really need Hasten. It is basically trying to make it clear how much work would need to be done for these "fixes" to Hasten, such as making it a toggle at 50% or an auto power at 30-40%, or adding more of an endurance cost (to some sets that need Hasten to function but are already endurance-intensive).

 

Okay, what do you think the purpose of a Hasten nerf would be, then?

[ArchVileTerror]

@Saiyajinzoningen . . . great bit of expression for your personal experiences with Hasten; I felt what you said there was valuable and informative of your gameplay experiences.

But @Rathulfr is SUPER correct with the meme picture.  

 

Please.

Start partitioning your wall-of-text posts with some line breaks.  

Pretty please.

 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

ive been told in other threads i dont express my point of view enough and come off as elitist sounding. that being said yes over 9000  🙂

[Replacement]

1 hour ago, Naraka said:

I think your premise is an illusion.

 

What makes you think you were entitled to Perma-PA or Chronoshift?  If suddenly those powers could not be made always-up powers, I can guarantee those sets would still function just fine.

You're making the case that Hasten should be nerfed/removed, then, which is not what's being considered for this thread.

 

Simply: which powers are more heavily affected by (lack of) global recharge?

 

I love how you can't even make topics tangential to hot-buttons without people resurrecting the horse just so they can beat it to death all over again.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Replacement

[Rathulfr]

3 minutes ago, Replacement said:

I love how you can't even make topics tangential to hot-buttons without people resurrecting the horse just so they can beat it to death all over again.

"Welcome to The Internet™."

-- Al Gore, 1993.

[Naraka]

40 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Because other sets can perma their signature abilities without the same investment, and that seems questionable 

Which ones? And don't say Seeds of Confusion.  That's likely something that requires hammering down.

 

2 minutes ago, Replacement said:

You're making the case that Hasten should be nerfed/removed, then, which is not what's being considered for this thread.

 

Simply: which powers are more heavily affected by (lack of) global recharge?

 

The answer to your base question is merely "powers with longer recharge times" which is rather redundant.

 

But I'm not trying to make a case about Hasten at all, moreso a case against making things with cooldowns normally longer than their durations "perma" and thus feel entitled to it.  If you want to build for high global recharge to make your Domination up more often, that's on you.  You aren't entitled to it being perma on premise though. Same with Phantom Army or Chonoshift: if somehow IO rech bonuses and Hasten get a balance pass to reduce their effectiveness, Illusions and Time are only disproportionately nerfed because they're currently receiving disproportionately higher value from the stat, not because they inherently *need* the stat.

 

It's why I said the premise is an illusion.  It's a consideration of perspective from the point of view of the power and not the point of view of balance.

[Herotu]

1 hour ago, Rathulfr said:

"Now"? 😉

...

...

...

/shrug

 

Sorry.

[Burnt Toast]

None... because it is not even being considered. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Burnt Toast

[Darkneblade]

Now that I think about little bit it is useless on high recharge + high level characters because ios cover most of them. It is only useful on lower levels where hasten actually make a difference because you didn't build a set yet.

[Muppy]

If there is gonna be a hasten nerf, this will hurt Mind Link. It doesn't take recharge enhancements, so keeping it perma is, well, desirable. I'll miss it, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.

[Monos King]

Can we talk about Mercenary Serum for masterminds? It's seriously way too OP. You're practically giving your pet a full t9 res buff. Not to mention Commandos are blasters with their own nuke, LRM Rocket.

 

Masterminds are just too effective. That's why the devs nerfed their pets levels to -1 and -2. Let's stop ignoring the obvious guys. 

 

Replace Serum with Volcanic Gases.

[ArchVileTerror]

I mean, the other thing to remember is that Hasten, should it be changed to make it less of an "obvious pick," doesn't need to have it's Recharge value nerfed at all.  

 

We can have Perma AND still make Hasten a more meaningful choice by adding a decided downside.  ie:  The Endurance Tax mentioned in the other thread.  Make it less appealing, and players will personally weigh the desire of "Perma'ing" a thing against said downside.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

4 minutes ago, ArchVileTerror said:

I mean, the other thing to remember is that Hasten, should it be changed to make it less of an "obvious pick," doesn't need to have it's Recharge value nerfed at all.  

 

We can have Perma AND still make Hasten a more meaningful choice by adding a decided downside.  ie:  The Endurance Tax mentioned in the other thread.  Make it less appealing, and players will personally weigh the desire of "Perma'ing" a thing against said downside.

or perhaps lock it behind another tier forcing players to choose either flurry or Super speed 1st & Hasten will become a thoughtful choice instead of a no brainer?

[Bossk_Hogg]

You may as well be asking which powersets will be affected if Martians attack. They aint nerfing Hasten if they know what is good for them.

 

I swear some people here apparently hate COH, given they want to tear it apart and change every damn thing about it. Perma Hasten has been in the game longer than it hasn't. When it comes to nerfing it, the ship has sailed, docked, returned, sank, raised, been rebuilt, and retired from service. 

[Galaxy Brain]

2 minutes ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

You may as well be asking which powersets will be affected if Martians attack. They aint nerfing Hasten if they know what is good for them.

 

I swear some people here apparently hate COH, given they want to tear it apart and change every damn thing about it. Perma Hasten has been in the game longer than it hasn't. When it comes to nerfing it, the ship has sailed, docked, returned, sank, raised, been rebuilt, and retired from service. 

So it's ok that you only have 2-3 pool power picks instead of 4

[Indystruck]

No one is "entitled" to anything in this game, to the point of playing the game itself, so that seems like a pointless thing to bring up.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Indystruck

[Haijinx]

2 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

"Welcome to The Internet™."

-- Al Gore, 1993.

We all know he invented it so he could do his kinky SF/Fantasy ERP.

[Call Me Awesome]

Ah look, another "Nerf Hasten" thread.  They seem to be like weeds and pop up every month or two... and have ever since 2004.

[Uun]

My Fire/Time Corruptor doesn't have hasten. Frankly, I find Chrono Shift to be kinda "meh". I certainly don't need it up all the time for the set to perform well.

[Bossk_Hogg]

3 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

So it's ok that you only have 2-3 pool power picks instead of 4

Well, that's assuming you take hasten on every character. I certainly don't. Given the massive global recharge you can acquire not all powersets honestly benefit that much. Shaving 2-3 seconds on a long long recharge power... /shrug. Simply talking to people costs you more time. Nerfing Hasten also disproportionately impacts builds with weaker IO's.

 

Also, what pools are really worthwhile that this is even a real concern? They've intentionally made all the attacks crappy, presence and stealth are basically worthless, few are going to take medicine and the origin ones are mutually exclusive. Even if someone "has" to take Speed for Hasten, Fighting, and a travel... that still leaves one more if they want to push a build to the cutting edge in a game that people frequently complain is too easy. 

 

If I was designing COH 2, I certainly wouldn't have hasten the way it is, but its far too late to dick around with certain things in a 15 year old game. It isn't worth forcing a ton of people to redo their builds and the drama and headaches it will cause. I would rather they spend more time on content, powersets, costumes etc than completely rebalancing the basics of the game.

[Galaxy Brain]

7 minutes ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Well, that's assuming you take hasten on every character. I certainly don't. Given the massive global recharge you can acquire not all powersets honestly benefit that much. Shaving 2-3 seconds on a long long recharge power... /shrug. Simply talking to people costs you more time. Nerfing Hasten also disproportionately impacts builds with weaker IO's.

 

Also, what pools are really worthwhile that this is even a real concern? They've intentionally made all the attacks crappy, presence and stealth are basically worthless, few are going to take medicine and the origin ones are mutually exclusive. Even if someone "has" to take Speed for Hasten, Fighting, and a travel... that still leaves one more if they want to push a build to the cutting edge in a game that people frequently complain is too easy. 

 

If I was designing COH 2, I certainly wouldn't have hasten the way it is, but its far too late to dick around with certain things in a 15 year old game. It isn't worth forcing a ton of people to redo their builds and the drama and headaches it will cause. I would rather they spend more time on content, powersets, costumes etc than completely rebalancing the basics of the game.

I'm on the same boat that the pool powers are dubious as-is and need a look, its just that when looking at say.... Stealth, or hell even Flurry vs Hasten, which do you balance towards?

 

 

[Coyotedancer]

The only recent mention of a Hasten nerf I've seen is that other thread in Suggestions, which I suspect from the OP's replies was probably started with the intent of stirring up arguments more than making any kind of real suggestion.... So, maybe it's best not to worry over it.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[Haijinx]

Every single one of my characters gets

 

Combat Jumping

Tough/Weave

Hasten

 

So I balance out the abstainers.   

[Coyotedancer]

And yeah... I almost always take CJ.

Hasten? Not so much. 

 

Of my current characters (I have 27 now. Holy hell. o_0), about ten have Hasten. The rest just didn't need it.