Powers that would need to change if Hasten gets nerfed

[Uun]

My Fire/Time Corruptor doesn't have hasten. Frankly, I find Chrono Shift to be kinda "meh". I certainly don't need it up all the time for the set to perform well.

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, Indystruck said:

No one is "entitled" to anything in this game, to the point of playing the game itself, so that seems like a pointless thing to bring up.

Maybe entitled wasn't the proper term then.  I was sort of trying to belt out a response while multi-tasking.

 

I suppose what I meant was "expectation".  Having the expectation that a power be permanently on is a presumption on false foundations of the powers system.  What you *want* a power to do is different from what a power/powerset is designed to do.

[modest]

Every debuff set is balanced so as to require permanent Hasten to achieve permanent debuffs. Without the recharge offered by Hasten, most Defender/Corruptor/Controller buff/debuff sets would be strongly affected in a negative way. Players would have little incentive to play these sets because their powers would be unavailable for most fights.

 

Illusion Control is balanced around the idea that the player will maximize their recharge. Without Hasten, Illusion Control will completely lose its singular draw of permanent Phantom Army.

 

Dominators would be heavily affected in a negative way because the inherent ability Domination relies upon high recharge to be made permanent.

[Naraka]

1 minute ago, modest said:

Every debuff set is balanced so as to require permanent Hasten to achieve permanent debuffs. Without the recharge offered by Hasten, most Defender/Corruptor/Controller buff/debuff sets would be strongly affected in a negative way. Players would have little incentive to play these sets because their powers would be unavailable for most fights.

And this is what I'm talking about.  What you *expect* a power to do isn't always congruent with what the power is designed to do.  Having every debuff be permanent ISN'T what they are designed to do.  In fights where you need that much debuffing that quickly and that often always end far sooner than the presumed necessity of the debuffs being present.  At best, you might shave off a handful of seconds off of a fight which, in the meta-game perspective, can add up to a lot of time over the course of several TFs but that is exactly that: META-game, i.e. circumstances that go beyond the game's purview of design.

 

6 minutes ago, modest said:

Illusion Control is balanced around the idea that the player will maximize their recharge. Without Hasten, Illusion Control will completely lose its singular draw of permanent Phantom Army.

Illusion Control is balanced around doing more damage than the standard control set thus it's controls aren't as prolific or debuffs as sticky as, say Earth Control or Ice Control.  How the set is balanced has nothing to do with Hasten.  Without Hasten, Illusion Control would have less viable mass control which is balanced for it's appreciable damage increase but is balanced by not being buffable but still benefits from external CC and debuffs (like from the majority of support sets like Radiation Emission, Trick Arrow, Dark Affinity, Poison, Storm Summoning...like half the support sets out there).  Just because an Illusion Controller can't have perma-PA doesn't disqualify all the other control and debuff options available to controllers.

 

12 minutes ago, modest said:

Dominators would be heavily affected in a negative way because the inherent ability Domination relies upon high recharge to be made permanent.

Domination was never designed to be permanent and it wasn't designed not to be either.  A dominator can function perfectly fine with intermittent use of domination when needed.  With the prevalent of IOs and other control powers (not to mention their decent amounts of DPS), you don't actually need the extra controls all the time.  And if you're really building balls-to-the-wall meta power-gaming, you likely will rarely get hit due to the obscene amounts of defense thus the mez protection is also not always necessary.

 

 

[modest]

28 minutes ago, Naraka said:

And this is what I'm talking about.  What you *expect* a power to do isn't always congruent with what the power is designed to do.  Having every debuff be permanent ISN'T what they are designed to do. 

You are incorrect. Several of the support power sets were released long after Hasten was introduced to the game. Key powers in those sets were given recharge times of either 120 seconds or 90 seconds specifically so that they could be made permanent with the recharge bonus provided by Hasten. This is not debatable; the original developers of the game discussed this on the old forums, and each power set was beta tested with this intent clearly stated.

 

Cold Domination is a good example. Benumb (a -Regen power) is designed to be made permanent so that a player can prevent a difficult enemy from regenerating during combat. If the power was not able to be permanent, then it would lose a significant portion of its value.

 

Temporal Selection from Time Manipulation is a second example of a power that was created long after Hasten was in the game. It was given a 120 second recharge. This set received a lot of feedback from players while it was in testing, and the developers actively responded to that feedback. i.e. They made their intent clear.

 

Nature Affinity is a third example of a power set that was introduced later in the game with powers that have high recharge times that encourage a build to slot for high global recharge. Overgrowth and Wild Growth both fall in this category.

 

Dominators were introduced to the game in Issue 6. Their inherent is intended act as a "feast and famine" mechanic that heavily promotes builds with high recharge. These high recharge builds force Dominators to sacrifice in other areas. Again, this was the design of the original developers of the game.

[Naraka]

8 minutes ago, modest said:

Cold Domination is a good example. Benumb (a -Regen power) is designed to be made permanent so that a player can prevent a difficult enemy from regenerating during combat. If the power was not able to be permanent, then it would lose a significant portion of its value.

Even with 3 rech SOs and Hasten up, Benumb has a 45sec rech and a 30sec duration (if pines is correct, that is).

 

10 minutes ago, modest said:

Temporal Selection from Time Manipulation is a second example of a power that was created long after Hasten was in the game. It was given a 120 second recharge. This set received a lot of feedback from players while it was in testing, and the developers actively responded to that feedback. i.e. They made their intent clear.

By making the duration and recharge the same (120 sec)?  What does that have to do with Hasten?

 

13 minutes ago, modest said:

Nature Affinity is a third example of a power set that was introduced later in the game with powers that have high recharge times that encourage a build to slot for high global recharge. Overgrowth and Wild Growth both fall in this category.

And both are considered overperforming.  Basically, the design goals of the later game were different, primarily leaning toward incentive to pay (even incarnate were locked behind needing paid status).  Unless that is the goal of the current build, it shouldn't be what powers were designed around.

 

16 minutes ago, modest said:

Dominators were introduced to the game in Issue 6. Their inherent is intended act as a "feast and famine" mechanic that heavily promotes builds with high recharge. These high recharge builds force Dominators to sacrifice in other areas. Again, this was the design of the original developers of the game.

Their inherent was conceptually a Hyde vs Jekyll style and when players broke that concept, it was duly changed.  If anything, the meta forced this power to be changed otherwise there would also be a damage bonus attached to perma-dom status.

 

The criticism isn't that these powers don't benefit from hasten and +rech bonuses, but rather the value of the set and the power itself isn't diminished by the lack of +rech.  Domination doesn't compound your offense or survivability by stacking, Phantom Army doesn't stack more than 3 phantoms at a time, etc.

 

Whether the old devs stated they started designing powers to be used in conjunction with perma-hasten is going to be a matter of "pull up resources".  If anything, I'd say they started to take more caution so that obscene amounts of +rech didn't benefit powers so disproportionately over time.  Why else would they start introducing powers that don't benefit from +rech or powers with durations equal to their cooldown?

 

[MunkiLord]

I think this thread should be nerfed. If such a thing as Hasten being nerfed were to actually happen(it won't), I'm not in favor of making it any easier to implement. Such a significant change for so many people should be a gigantic pain in the ass to make happen.

[Troo]

I'll add it to the list

[tidge]

On 4/9/2020 at 6:43 AM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

So i began more research. Was it possible to have permadom without hasten? After a week of fiddling with builds i discovered yes it was not only possible it was cheaper and easier to exclude hasten from the build and still have permadom. This also freed up a power pool for other purposes. Henceforth i placed domination on auto and basked in the sheer delight of a well balanced dominator.

Did the non-Hasten perma-Dom rely on +Recharge in click powers/attacks? If so, how many? I'm genuinely curious. My (perma-Dom) experience already feels more frenetic than the busiest Brute...

 

 

[Caulderone]

2 hours ago, tidge said:

Did the non-Hasten perma-Dom rely on +Recharge in click powers/attacks? If so, how many? I'm genuinely curious.

It doesn't have to.  I'm attaching my Elec/Psi/Psi build plan.  I haven't gotten around to making it, but the plan seems solid.

Perma-Dom (edit:  would be auto'd) and basically Perma-Mind Link before the FF+Rech in Jolting Chain, which is part of the standard attack chain.

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Electric Control
Secondary Power Set: Psionic Assault
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Tesla Cage -- BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:30(A), BslGaz-Acc/Hold:30(7), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold:30(7), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:30(9)
Level 1: Psionic Dart -- Dcm-Acc/Dmg:36(A), Dcm-Dmg/EndRdx:36(9), Dcm-Dmg/Rchg:36(11), Dcm-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:36(11), Dcm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:36(13)
Level 2: Mind Probe -- Hct-Dam%:50(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg:50(13), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(15), Hct-Acc/Rchg:50(15), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx:50(17)
Level 4: Telekinetic Thrust -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg:36(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx:36(17), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:36(23), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:36(34), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:36(34), SuddAcc--KB/+KD:21(37)
Level 6: Jolting Chain -- EffAdp-EndMod/Acc:50(A), ExpStr-Dam%:10(40), GldJvl-Dam%:10(40), Apc-Dam%:50(42), PwrTrns-+Heal:21(42), FrcFdb-Rechg%:21(42)
Level 8: Conductive Aura -- EffAdp-EndMod/Acc:50(A)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- Ksm-ToHit+:10(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:36(50)
Level 12: Static Field -- SprDmnGrs-Rchg/Fiery Orb:50(A), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear:50(43), SprAscoft-EndRdx/Rchg:50(43), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx:50(43), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46), SprAscoft-Rchg/+Dmg%:50(46)
Level 14: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow:10(A)
Level 16: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Paralyzing Blast -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold:30(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg:30(19), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:30(19), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:30(23)
Level 20: Drain Psyche -- EffAdp-Acc/Rchg:50(A), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg:50(21), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg:50(21)
Level 22: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc:10(A)
Level 24: Weave -- Rct-Def:36(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx:36(25), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg:36(25), Rct-Def/Rchg:36(31), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:36(31), Rct-ResDam%:20(34)
Level 26: Synaptic Overload -- CrcPrs-Conf:50(A), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg:50(27), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg:50(27), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg:50(29), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx:50(29), CrcPrs-Conf%:50(31)
Level 28: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:36(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx:36(48), RedFrt-Def/Rchg:50(48), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg:36(48), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:36(50), RedFrt-Def:36(50)
Level 30: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:25(A)
Level 32: Gremlins -- ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg:36(A), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx:36(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:36(33), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg:36(33)
Level 35: Link Minds -- AdjTrg-Rchg:50(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx:36(36), RedFrt-Def/Rchg:36(36), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg:36(36), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:36(37), RedFrt-Def:36(37)
Level 38: Psychic Shockwave -- Arm-Dam%:50(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg:50(39), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(39), Arm-Acc/Rchg:50(39), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx:50(40)
Level 41: Mind Over Body -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A)
Level 44: Psionic Tornado -- Rgn-Knock%:50(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Rgn-Acc/Rchg:50(45), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx:50(46)
Level 47: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:25(A)
Level 49: Invisibility -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:36(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Domination
Level 1: Quick Form
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- IntRdx-I:50(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:10(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:30(3), Mrc-Rcvry+:20(3)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod:50(A), PrfShf-End%:21(5), PwrTrns-+Heal:21(5)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
------------

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Caulderone

[Galaxy Brain]

Here y'all go:

 

 

[Hyperstrike]

On 4/9/2020 at 12:44 AM, Troo said:

?! huh

 

Who has indicated a Hasten nerf and why? Was there a dev discussion on discord or someplace? Or is this 'sky is fallin' poppycock.

 

A thread started out asking for more Global +Recharge IOs, a-la LotG.
That petered out and the thread mutated into a sullen "Then let's just nerf Hasten first!"-fest.

[Burk]

On 4/9/2020 at 3:11 PM, Naraka said:

Illusion Control is balanced around doing more damage than the standard control set thus it's controls aren't as prolific or debuffs as sticky as, say Earth Control or Ice Control.

 

Interesting that the control set that is balanced around doing more damage is also the set with the fewest damage powers (only two with Plant having three and all others having at least four) and the only control set that has zero AoE powers that do any damage. Spectral Wounds may seem powerful, but keep in mind if you factor in its heal-back, it does exactly the same base damage as the single target immobilize (or sleep in the case of mind) that exists in every other control set. The only way it does more damage than them is just in the oddity of the heal-back not being affected by enhancements. But even then at the ED-cap on enhancement Spectral Wounds only manages to tie the extra powers of Lift from Gravity and Levitate from Mind, except Spectral Wounds also doesn't get the full benefit of containment, so it actually loses to both of those. That's not even mentioning that Spectral Wounds has no secondary effect unlike all the rest.

 

Of course, you could say that Illusion does good damage thanks to Phantom Army, but you're the one claiming that the set shouldn't rely on having it up all the time.

[Zepp]

4 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Here y'all go:

 

 

Thanks!
I think anything above 300 that is a keystone power would need major consideration.

[ABlueThingy]

Personally I think Hasten needs... well not NERF'D per say... but changed yes.

 

It kind of eats up a lot of design space as the unalloyed good of pure +rech.  I think it should have some sort of conditions to it just so we have more room to introduce alternatives that could compete with it.  As it stands if you introduced another pool with functionally permanent +recharge you'd have to compare it to Hasten.  Because Hasten is just such a flat block of pure stats it's hard to directly compete with it.  We REALLY REALLY don't need any more powercreep in this game so alternatives can't just be outright BETTER than Hasten.

 

If you wanted to introduce a... lets say a Meditation pool.  With self buffs that require you sit still for a 3 sec meditation animation and gave you a long lasting self-buff.  If one of those was a +rech it would have to be much higher to be worth while to pick over Hasten.  But if Hasten had... say an end penalty.  Then you'd have to decide if you wanted the quick and easy option that chews end or the slower deliberate option that left you with more end.

 

I guess I'm saying I'd rather Hasten be given more of a cost and see more powers with different costs added in. So I can pick one that works better for my theme and/or my build.

[Zepp]

5 hours ago, ABlueThingy said:

Personally I think Hasten needs... well not NERF'D per say... but changed yes.

 

It kind of eats up a lot of design space as the unalloyed good of pure +rech.  I think it should have some sort of conditions to it just so we have more room to introduce alternatives that could compete with it.  As it stands if you introduced another pool with functionally permanent +recharge you'd have to compare it to Hasten.  Because Hasten is just such a flat block of pure stats it's hard to directly compete with it.  We REALLY REALLY don't need any more powercreep in this game so alternatives can't just be outright BETTER than Hasten.

 

If you wanted to introduce a... lets say a Meditation pool.  With self buffs that require you sit still for a 3 sec meditation animation and gave you a long lasting self-buff.  If one of those was a +rech it would have to be much higher to be worth while to pick over Hasten.  But if Hasten had... say an end penalty.  Then you'd have to decide if you wanted the quick and easy option that chews end or the slower deliberate option that left you with more end.

 

I guess I'm saying I'd rather Hasten be given more of a cost and see more powers with different costs added in. So I can pick one that works better for my theme and/or my build.

You run into the same issue that this thread is pointing out. Trollers and Fenders would be hit hard by changes to Hasten, Doms would be hit significantly as well. Meanwhile, the DpS and tank classes would not noticeably change, although some people might just take Hasten out of their build when they realize they don't need it.

[ZeeHero]

The list is extremely extremely long. Nerfing Hasten isn't even remotely an option avaliable if they want to manage the game decently.

 

Making it inherent would be the only change which could be made without causing damage UNLESS they adjusted the 50 bajillion powers which suck without it.

 

The people asking for nerfs need to just CUT IT THE HELL OUT. 

 

They would ruin the fun of others for their own selfish ideas. Instead of mindlessly demanding nerfs, ask for new ways to increase the "Challenge" (lol as if COH is capable of a FUN challenge but I digress) there could easily be another tier of difficulty which adds new attacks and abilities to enemies, and changes the makeup of groups to include higher ranks, rather than raising their levels.

 

If your suggestion for the game would ruin someone elses fun- reconsider since it's probably not a good idea. a hasten nerf would be one of the biggest nerfs to happen in COH since ED. and you know the backlash from that.

Edited April 14, 2020 by ZeeHero

[Greycat]

19 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

 

Making it inherent would be the only change which could be made without causing damage UNLESS they adjusted the 50 bajillion powers which suck without it.

 

I think you mean the zero powers that do.

 

No powers rely on Hasten. Some peoples' playstyles lean on it heavily. If a power or powerset actually *relied* on hasten, its recharge would be adjusted or there would be a Hasten-type power in the powerset.

 

All this is complaining about something that isn't even in the works.

[ZeeHero]

Just now, Greycat said:

I think you mean the zero powers that do.

 

No powers rely on Hasten. Some peoples' playstyles lean on it heavily. If a power or powerset actually *relied* on hasten, its recharge would be adjusted or there would be a Hasten-type power in the powerset.

 

All this is complaining about something that isn't even in the works.

The main playstyle which relies on it is... Be awesome and feel like a top notch superhero. something people who ask for nerfs instead of ways they can choose for extra challenge clearly dislike.

[Greycat]

Just now, ZeeHero said:

The main playstyle which relies on it is... Be awesome and feel like a top notch superhero. something people who ask for nerfs instead of ways they can choose for extra challenge clearly dislike.

Choose for some extra challenge then. Play without it. 

 

*shrug* My characters feel perfectly "awesome" and "top notch," very few have ever had hasten, I don't perma-anything or "build," particularly. I don't care if you do. Hasten is fine as is. It does not need to be nerfed, does not need to be buffed, and does not need to be made inherent. Why? Because, amazingly, that gives people the most choice on how to build with (or without) it without affecting anyone else.

[ZeeHero]

9 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Choose for some extra challenge then. Play without it. 

 

*shrug* My characters feel perfectly "awesome" and "top notch," very few have ever had hasten, I don't perma-anything or "build," particularly. I don't care if you do. Hasten is fine as is. It does not need to be nerfed, does not need to be buffed, and does not need to be made inherent. Why? Because, amazingly, that gives people the most choice on how to build with (or without) it without affecting anyone else.

You cannot demand someone else "Choose"

 

if you actually want choice, you would not be asking for nerfs. you would be asking for new and better options.

 

I CHOOSE to play to relax and NOT have much of a challenge- if I want a challenge I go do Extreme trials or Savage Raids on FFXIV- becuase COH is not capable of ever providing a fun challenge with the way the engine and combat system works.

 

if you just have no experience with better and are very easy to please, then at least ask for new options for challenge instead of demanding to take away fun from most of the game.

 

You are 100% correct hasten does not need to be made innate or nerfed, a better solution to the problem of hasten being so much better than most other pool powers exists.

 

Make those pool powers good too!

Edited April 14, 2020 by ZeeHero

[Greycat]

18 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

You cannot demand someone else "Choose"

 

if you actually want choice, you would not be asking for nerfs. you would be asking for new and better options.

 

I CHOOSE to play to relax and NOT have much of a challenge- if I want a challenge I go do Extreme trials or Savage Raids on FFXIV- becuase COH is not capable of ever providing a fun challenge with the way the engine and combat system works.

 

if you just have no experience with better and are very easy to please, then at least ask for new options for challenge instead of demanding to take away fun from most of the game.

 

You are 100% correct hasten does not need to be made innate or nerfed, a better solution to the problem of hasten being so much better than most other pool powers exists.

 

Make those pool powers good too!

That was not a demand. That was a suggestion.

 

And read my post again. I was very blunt about leaving it alone - as you yourself admitted I said later in the post. Just after you stated I was "demanding to take away fun from most of the game." And just after you stated I was asking for nerfs.

 

You also need to lay off insulting others, being condescending towards those whose playstyle is not your own ("No experience with better and are very easy to please" - I've had experience from I3 onward, one that changed quite frequently, thank you)  and making assumptions. Especially over something that isn't happening anyway (that being nerfing hasten.)

 

Edit: For your own enlightenment, I don't bother perma-ing or doing megabuilds for the exact *opposite* reason you state you play the way you do. I find it makes an already easy game too easy if I can wade in with a defense-capped blaster and kill everything without batting an eye or worrying about health. I *like* having to decide if I'm going to use domination *now* or wait just a bit longer. You'll note I'm not casting aspersions on you for wanting to pay that way. You playing that way affects me not a whit.  Again, I *do* prefer choice - whether that's tanker, scrapper or brute, or "take hasten or not." And that's the way I want it to stay. (Again, *not that a nerf is even being seriously considered.*)

Edited April 15, 2020 by Greycat

[Naraka]

44 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

The list is extremely extremely long. Nerfing Hasten isn't even remotely an option avaliable if they want to manage the game decently.

 

Making it inherent would be the only change which could be made without causing damage UNLESS they adjusted the 50 bajillion powers which suck without it.

 

The people asking for nerfs need to just CUT IT THE HELL OUT. 

Firstly, you're severely overstating the necessity of Hasten.  Just because a lot of powers can't be perma without hasten doesn't mean those powers NEED to be perma in the first place NOR does it mean those powers can't be made perma if they received buffs from outside sources.

 

Secondly, this mentality is likely why Super Strength will forever be weighed down by Rage.  The point is, you can't improve other aspects of the game when you hold onto old build philosophies in the face of incarnate and IO builds/buffs.

 

Thirdly, asking for nerfs and getting nerfs implemented are 2 separate things.  If I want to ask for nerfs and make a good enough argument that the devs take notice and decide it's a good choice to make, that obviously means a good argument was needed and thus YOU CUT IT THE HELL OUT telling me what to post on the forums.  The forums are meant to be used for discussion, not to censor and drown out opinions you don't like.

[ZeeHero]

I agree that I should not panic and I am not. 

 

I agree hasten isnt by itself essential to being powerful.

 

However- I dont think nerfing hasten is the answer to anything.

 

Super Strength Rage mechanic NEEDS changing- in a way which does not make the set any worse or too good.

 

My suggestion for rage is either make it a normal build up (less interesting) and buff SS base damage, OR adjust its buff numbers and limit the stacking ability- but remove or make the crash a small debuff instead of the "hit like a tissue for 10 seconds"

[Naraka]

20 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

Super Strength Rage mechanic NEEDS changing- in a way which does not make the set any worse or too good.

 

My suggestion for rage is either make it a normal build up (less interesting) and buff SS base damage, OR adjust its buff numbers and limit the stacking ability- but remove or make the crash a small debuff instead of the "hit like a tissue for 10 seconds"

What mechanics need to change and how they are change really depends on what the goals of the game are.  As is, if the necessity of +rech and/or hasten or the balance of perma abilities is something that is to be addressed, you need to get to a consensus on what the balance goal would be and THEN spitball ideas.  Many have said there is nothing wrong with hasten and that it's not a necessity to make a great build while others have expounded on contradictory arguments saying it is.

 

Same thing with Rage: The popular opinion of the main problem with the power is both it's obscene duration and its stackability.  That you can stack a large damage buff and then blast away with AoEs outside the set is the issue I'd argue is the most dire, which would be why a suggestion to "fix" the set might be to just have rage only apply extra damage to SS attacks alone (it can keep the +ToHit) so remove the +damage buff and give it a "adds smashing damage" to your SS attacks almost equivalent to the damage bonus which can be seen as a nerf for your out-of-set AoEs and a buff to your "when I get to damage cap from team buff or just damage buffs in general" performance since the added smashing damage could still be enhanceable.  You could probably remove the crash entirely with that...but then you'd have to get people to agree to give up double Rage stacked Dark Obliteration/Ball Lightning/etc which would probably not be equivalent...but there's also a good amount of players that don't double stack Rage and use those AoEs.