Teleportation Rework would be awesome.

[ScarySai]

Nightcrawler wouldn't have lasted long if he was as slow as current teleports.

 

Jaunt is awesome, I don't care for much of the experimental set, but speed of sound, specifically it's teleport, is how all teleport powers should behave.

 

Instead of slowly flexing before reappearing in a slow hover, you vanish in an instant and are winding up an attack less than a second later.

 

Teleports should be fast and practical in combat. I'd even drop combat jumping from some of my builds to fit it, were it to function like jaunt does.

Edited April 15, 2020 by ScarySai

[Redlynne]

I haven't seen Jaunt in operation, but if it's as fast as you're saying then the opportunity to proliferate Jaunt's behavior (animation time, etc.) to other Teleport powers would certainly become possible.  I know that Translocation in Mystic Fly is MUCH snappier and quicker to operate than the legacy Teleports (which even Kheldians are afflicted with copying), although I think that's a function of Translocation requiring Mystic Fly be toggled on in order to use Translocation, so there's no ridiculous "hover patch" behavior after teleporting required (let alone the long windup animation before you teleport).

[Replacement]

55 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Nightcrawler wouldn't have lasted long if he was as slow as current teleports.

 

Jaunt is awesome, I don't care for much of the experimental set, but speed of sound, specifically it's teleport, is how all teleport powers should behave.

 

Instead of slowly flexing before reappearing in a slow hover, you vanish in an instant and are winding up an attack less than a second later.

 

Teleports should be fast and practical in combat. I'd even drop combat jumping from some of my builds to fit it, were it to function like jaunt does.

Someone call the developers, we finally agree on something!

 

The issue is, there are people who like the current implemention (check out the last Focused Feedback: Experimentation thread for examples). I think the consensus is that Teleportation needs some of its powers combined and condensed to make room for a combat teleport.

 

Based on context clues of what Captain Powerhouse has said in the past -- I think the intent is to get all 5 origin pools out there door and then revisit the original travel pools.

[ScarySai]

5 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Based on context clues of what Captain Powerhouse has said in the past -- I think the intent is to get all 5 origin pools out there door and then revisit the original travel pools.

Long as hasten's left alone, that sounds pretty great.

[Psyonico]

I don't have too much of a problem with original teleport.

 

Here's a video I have from live of me doing a click-only (no bind) teleport from one corner of IP to the other, took just under 6 minutes... Try that with another travel power

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXYYZ9ysToQ

 

Sorry for the poor quality, as I said, it was from the original game on live, so resolution sucked.

 

I haven't seen Jaunt, so I can't speak for that, and I certainly wouldn't complain if the animation was to speed up, but I don't think it's *that* slow

[Wild Claw]

13 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

I don't have too much of a problem with original teleport.

 

Here's a video I have from live of me doing a click-only (no bind) teleport from one corner of IP to the other, took just under 6 minutes... Try that with another travel power

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXYYZ9ysToQ

 

Sorry for the poor quality, as I said, it was from the original game on live, so resolution sucked.

 

I haven't seen Jaunt, so I can't speak for that, and I certainly wouldn't complain if the animation was to speed up, but I don't think it's *that* slow

I think as a *travel power* Teleportation is okay, but if I understand the OP what they are wanting is the 'combat use' teleport. Basically the Combat Jumping and Hover equivalent in the Teleportation pool. Quick *bampfing* around from which they can launch attacks.  The current makeup of the Teleportation pool has Teleport Foe in that spot, and that really doesn't satisfy the desire.

[ScarySai]

1 hour ago, Wild Claw said:

I think as a *travel power* Teleportation is okay, but if I understand the OP what they are wanting is the 'combat use' teleport. Basically the Combat Jumping and Hover equivalent in the Teleportation pool. Quick *bampfing* around from which they can launch attacks.  The current makeup of the Teleportation pool has Teleport Foe in that spot, and that really doesn't satisfy the desire.

I'd like to see teleport be quicker and more responsive for both travel and combat, not really advocating for a 'combat' version, unless it were to be a lotg mule.

[Zepp]

I'll find the old thread about this in a sec.

Just tried Jaunt, and it is amazingly fun. I think the three pops then 10s recharge is a good workaround for making it fun but not OP. I think it would work well for a Tactical TP.

From the other TP thread:

On 9/21/2019 at 11:45 PM, Zepp said:

 Alright, I went through the thread and am trying to get some of the best ideas for the rework:

T₁; Recall: Can target enemy (range 200) or friend (range 20,000), brings target to caster, never causes aggro. Cast time around 3s (no interrupt) and recharge around 4s. [Cast time and Recharge needs more discourse]

On 9/21/2019 at 1:08 AM, Replacement said:

I agree with whoever said to combine recall friend and teleport foe into one power with a fast cast time (same as regular teleport) and a low cooldown. 

 

If no one said that, then I did.

T₂: Tactical Teleport: Short range 30' Teleport with a 30s unstackable defense buff (similar level to combat jumping) and Teleport resistance.

On 9/15/2019 at 12:39 PM, Zepp said:

There have been several types of ideas that have come up over the years. One is a simple short-range TP with minimal animation time, short range, and low endurance cost. There is also the possibility of adding a 15-30s non-stacking defensive buff to the power to give it similar stats to combat jumping. A different way to approach this would be to not have a TP power per se, but a displacement toggle. This would mean that you are constantly teleporting and thus making yourself more difficult to hit. This would include a minor universal movement bonus, but it would not give you the Nightcrawler feel.

T₃: Teleport: 3-5 endurance per TP, 6s hover after TP cancelled by movement.

On 9/13/2019 at 8:10 PM, GM Sijin said:

Counter suggestion (though probably much more difficult to implement):

Teleport grants you ~6 seconds of hover after the teleport. However, if you activate any movement it's cancelled immediately.

T₄: Long-Range Teleport: Basically no change.

T₅: Teleport Assault: Chain attack.

On 9/16/2019 at 12:56 PM, Cooltastic said:

NEW POWER: Teleport Assault: This is a PBAoE attack. No target needed. This ability both phases you out(while immobilizing you) for the duration while damaging up to 10 Foes in a Large Area around you. It has a long cooldown(Maybe 2mins) and a duration of about 3.5 seconds. The FX would be a normal teleport FX around your character while your character vanishes completely until reappearing in the same spot. Effected Enemies will be hit with large puffs of teleport smoke FX repeatedly for the duration, they just need to be sporadic in nature to make it look as if your teleporting around to each one.

 

I think this sounds reasonable, and it allows people to continue to have access to all current powers with the same current requirements. It also addresses both the need for a defensive and more clearly offensive power. It is not overpowered, but each power could be reasonably desirable.

As always, I'm open for discussion about these ideas, but I would definitely be happy if something like this was the end result of the rework.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Zepp

[ScarySai]

The teleportation power should be just as responsive (if not more) as jaunt, but with no cooldown, standard teleport range and remains effective at travel.

 

Rather than 'combat teleporting' or whatever, teleport itself should just get the buffs to make it just as practical for combat as SJ, SS, and Fly are.

[Replacement]

I know it would be ridiculous and it's... not likely, but I've wondered before about a teleportation toggle.  Where running towards a target always cues a savage leap-esque teleport to target if they're inside a distance range (not too close, where it'd be better to just step, and with a short max range).

 

It would need some annoying logic.  Something like...

 

While enemy targeted

While forward button is held

  Listen for enemy distance

    If distance is lower than it was half a second ago AND If current Distance is between 10 and 35 feet

        Teleport to enemy location

 

Sounds inefficient.

 

As for simply cleaning up standard teleport, I would like that approach, too.  A suggestion I've made before is making the Descend key (default X) instantly disable the Hover effect.  That way you could keep the hover for folks who need it, but have an instant-out for others.

[ScarySai]

Why not just make the hover able to be turned off at Null? Ninja run + teleport would be more than enough to get around for me, especially if recovery time was reduced further.

[Redlynne]

10 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Why not just make the hover able to be turned off at Null?

Ideally speaking, you'd want the hover after teleport effect to be cancelled upon moving (forward/back, strafe left/right, up/down) so all you need to do is use the movement keybinds to cancel the hover after teleport.

[General Idiot]

Personally if I were going to rework the Teleport pool I'd do three things:

• Combine Recall Friend and Teleport Foe into one Teleport Other power, that activates as either depending on friend or foe targeted. There's nothing really wrong with either of those as they currently are, but combining them would be a relatively easy way to free up space in the pool so it doesn't have to be the only pool in the game with six powers.
• Add a Combat Teleport power in that now vacant space, mechanically a straight up clone of Jaunt but with different visual FX matching the rest of the pool. So people who want the in combat teleport with quick animation and no hover can take that, and people who want the no cooldown teleport with hover for travelling can take that. And people who'd like both can take both.
• Add all zones plus options for base and current mission to Long Range Teleport. Because a power that you're dedicating three slots in your build to get should not be outclassed by P2W powers everyone can have.

The only problems there are that Teleport Other would have range issues since as I understand it a power that redirects like that would have to can't have it's range varied based on which it's going to redirect to (Likely because the range check to activate the power at all happens before the redirect is decided), and I'm not sure you can have normal zones and dynamic options for bases and missions on the same menu for Long Range Teleport - though the same code that pulls current team missions for 'Board Transit' missions could possibly be reused since I think the LRT menu is the same one the normal trains pull up, just activated differently. That doesn't solve the issue of bases though. The alternative is to make Long Range Teleport grant several powers in the style of Dual Pistols or Staff Fighting, one for each function.

[Communistpenguin]

I say make activae and work as fast as jaunt, but with teleports limited by your endurance. Combine TO foe and friend together, and give Tp the power from martial combat that blasters get. Make the animatin for teleport switchable in the tailor between the original Teleport and jaunt.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Communistpenguin

[Megajoule]

As I understand it, Teleportation can't feasibly be made as fast (charging, executing, etc) as it could in a single player, entirely local game, because there's always the problem or at least the risk of latency and lag.  Whether that's on the client side, server side, or somewhere in the middle (network), you run into problems when parts of the game disagree on where your character is at any given moment/fraction of a second.

[Yaliw]

12 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

As I understand it, Teleportation can't feasibly be made as fast (charging, executing, etc) as it could in a single player, entirely local game, because there's always the problem or at least the risk of latency and lag.  Whether that's on the client side, server side, or somewhere in the middle (network), you run into problems when parts of the game disagree on where your character is at any given moment/fraction of a second.

I don't know if I believe this entirely. Look at WoW, when that game came out in 2004, Mages had Blink. An instantaneous teleport X distance. I'm sure we are clever enough to find a way to make something work that is at least similar to this.

[Megajoule]

How fast can/could you chain Blink, though?  How many times in, say, 10 seconds do client and server have to update each other and come to an agreement on the exact position of the character object in 3D space?  And how do we reconcile them if (when) they get out of sync?

The tighter the loop gets, the faster the power cycles and the character moves, the narrower the tolerances for error - in server, client, and network.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Megajoule

[Redlynne]

I forget what the cooldown on Blink was, but it was like 20-25 seconds and it only teleported you 20 ft ... a far cry from being able to teleport 300+ feet (and needing to load everything that "wasn't there before" due to distance) every 2 seconds ...

[DoctorDitko]

Please add my vote for combining TP Foe & Recall Friend!

 

Also, Mystic Flight is currently the top teleport power in the game, and that's sad!

 

TP hover should persist until another TP or movement happens. No one should fall out of the sky and get ganked because of their Travel power!

 

TP+lag=debt!

 

If updating the screen is a problem, I have no issue with reducing world detail while TPing; let there be a 4th-dimesional fog that slowly clears once you have arrived.

 

[ScarySai]

3 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

Also, Mystic Flight is currently the top teleport power in the game, and that's sad!

You should try speed of sound, it's even better.

[Primantis]

On 4/22/2020 at 4:31 AM, Megajoule said:

As I understand it, Teleportation can't feasibly be made as fast (charging, executing, etc) as it could in a single player, entirely local game, because there's always the problem or at least the risk of latency and lag.  Whether that's on the client side, server side, or somewhere in the middle (network), you run into problems when parts of the game disagree on where your character is at any given moment/fraction of a second.

 

 

I was going to mention this but you beat me to it!

 

Travel back in time to when CoH was being developed, around 2001-2002ish? The average user had either a 56k (Dial-Up), or a 128k DSL connection. With some lucky few having quicker cable access of course. Computers we're obviously much weaker, Pentium 3/4s were probably the norm. Them at their AMD equivalents.

 

So I feel like they made TP sluggish based on latency and performance issues. Not only do the servers have to sync up each time a person teleports (multiplied by number of users using it), but instantly loading a huge chunk of previously-unloaded geometry and textures each teleport would play havoc with systems at the time. You could potentially teleport, get "load locked" then fall to your doom (as Teleport did not have the "Hover Patch" at launch, that was added in a later patch)

 

Latency in MMOs was such a huge problem in the early 2000s that even WoW had to mitigate it somehow. With the now-much-abused "Leeway" system, that let melee characters still attack even when their target was well out of range. They didn't want there to be combat problems when character locations weren't accurately synced client vs server. (IE the player sees the character in melee range, but they actually aren't)

 

Champion's Online even opted to go an entirely different route with Teleport. Instead making it a weird hybrid of super-fast ethereal flight that you had to keep going back into, as you would pop out of it every 5 seconds or so.

 

 

That being said, times have changed. Hardware has improved, and the game is ancient. Perhaps these issues are now antiquated so a rework of TP, if possible, would be quite nice imo.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Primantis

[ScarySai]

Oh, it's absolutely due to that whole latency/don't get ganked/falling to death thing. Especially the latter, I believe the power originally did not have the hover at first, and it didn't go well for that old internet.

 

Now, though - it's pretty clear that most people generally have better internet than back then. The hover remaining, but breaking the second you make movement would be good, though I don't think it's necessary for those with the shift+click port binds. Main thing I want to go is the incredibly slow activation/recovery of the power, when a teleporter clicks a location to port to, he should be THERE. Compared to CJ or SS, it's the least practical travel power for confined spaces/combat. 

[Primantis]

I agree 100%

 

If they took away the whole "Wind up" animation and the teleport was nearly instant, that would be a fantastic change!

[WindDemon21]

Expressed best on this thread:

But IMO this would be the best rework, recall, no brainer. combat tp, for all the reasons it's needed, and can be used as a travel even as well, but would require more clicking, and the tier 5 power knocks it out of the water for travel at any rate.

 

1: Recall: 1s cast, 5 end, ally, or foe. level 4.

 

2. Combat Teleport: 0.5s cast time, cj/hover level defense for 60 seconds, 2 end cost. No recharge. 80ft range. level 4, 20s hover, cancelled by movement.

 

3. Teleport Punch: Snipe, insta-cast in battle, you punch your fist through a tiny wormhole at the enemy. Brawl animation when insta-cast, Devastating blow's animation when ranged snipe. level 4

 

4. Group Teleport: TPs yourself, and the team to a location. 2s mag 4 confuse (30ft radius) 20s recharge, 15 end cost. 80ft range of initial self tp, zone range of ally tp. TP of self works like regular tp, ally tp works like assemble the team (doesn't pull with your radius, instead pulls from zone) Tier 2 requires one of the previous powers, level 14. 20s hover, cancelled by movement.

 

5. Long Range Teleport: Teleports across zones or to mission, works the same as it does now, but additionally tps the entire team to the location you select like mission teleporter combined. Tier 3, requires two other power picks, level 20.