Perma Confused Possible?

[You]

Can I perma confuse an AV or a GM?

[Heraclea]

Will probably be difficult.  AVs have extremely strong resistances to that sort of thing when their 'triangles' are up. 

[Redlynne]

30 minutes ago, You said:

Can I perma confuse an AV or a GM?

Yes ... but ...

You'll need to be able to consistently stack 56+ Mag worth of Confuse on them in order to do so, which will be hard to do AND be able to do anything else.  You'll essentially need maximum Accuracy, Confuse and Recharge on a single target Confuse power in order to even make the attempt.  Power Boost and Domination will go a LONG way towards helping you reach this goal.  Dominators will have the easiest time of this (especially with perma-Domination to help) since Domination will double the Mag output of Confuse powers.

 

56 / 3 = 19 Confuses (Controller)

56 / 6 = 10 Confuses (Dominator with Domination)

 

And keep in mind that most Confuse powers require a ToHit roll so some of your Confuse attacks will miss, meaning you're going to need even more Confuse attacks to account for the occasional MISS result when building up your Mag stacks.  And that's before you even account for the Purple Patch reducing the duration of your Confuse power(s), making it harder for you to build a deep enough Mag stack to consistently sustain Confuse through Purple Triangles.

 

So it's possible, but it takes a LOT of effort to accomplish for a Controller.

It's easier for a Dominator with perma-Domination, but even then you are going to need a fair bit of margin so that you can reliably sustain the Mag stack of Confusion.

[Haijinx]

I made it through the 90's that way ...

[SaddestGhost]

It's quite possible.  As Redlynne pointed out it's generally much easier for a dominator to do so than a controller.  One other thing to consider is that your mez powers are reduced in duration against foes that con higher than you.  At +4 their duration is reduced by nearly half which makes it quite a bit more difficult, but it is doable. 

 

If you attempt it be sure to pick up the Vanguard Medallion as it will boost your control durations for a full minutes when used.  Use it and stack up as much confuse mag as you can before engaging with an attack chance intermittent with confuse.

Edited April 18, 2020 by SaddestGhost

[Luminara]

Try giving them hugs, or smiling and making eye contact.  Those actions always confuse me... and have been known to occasionally cause some fluid leakage and short, sharp high-pitched vocalizations.

[Coyote]

A few Dominator builds can perma-Hold +4 AVs (with a level shift, I don't know if there's a build that can do it at true +4). Given that Confuse durations are significantly longer than the Holds, even with the longer Confuse animations, it's certainly possibly for every Dominator with a single-target Confuse to perma-Confuse an even-con AV... and I think that all of them can perma-Confuse a +4(3) AV with a high-Confuse, high-Recharge build. It may require a specific Alpha Incarnate slot, but it can certainly be done.

 

I'm not sure that it can be done at all by a non-Dominator. Well, maybe on an even-con AV. Domination basically takes the Magnitude stack that you would build without it and multiplies it by 2.5, while Controller duration compared to Dominator is 1.25, I believe. So... a Controller would have half the stack of a perma-Dom. This might just be feasible against an even-con AV, though I wouldn't bet on it.

 

So... go with a perma-Dom build that has a single-target Confuse, and you shouldn't have any problems against AVs up to +2, and +3-con can be done with a good build. Note that this is at higher levels, when you're fully slotted, have a lot of +Recharge from sets, and the IOs that you have in the Confuse power are at high level. It will be difficult to do at Level 30 even if you manage to make a perma-Dom build at that level. So it's a high-level plan, not a leveling build.

 

Note: I could perma-HOLD (not Confuse) AVs in the 30s with a Fire Dom. So... given that perma-Confuse is easier, it's certainly possible in the 30s. Just not easy.

[You]

I am thinking either a Mind or Dark Dom then. Any suggestion / comment for them? Which one is better?

[Redlynne]

6 minutes ago, You said:

I am thinking either a Mind or Dark Dom then. Any suggestion / comment for them? Which one is better?

Depends on your secondary (and the rest of your build plan) and concept.

[SwitchFade]

Short answer?

 

It's possible.

 

Long answer?

 

Iiiiiiiitttttttttt'sssssss ppoooooooossssssiiiiibbbbllleeeeeeee.....

 

Go. Hunt. Eat pie.

[You]

10 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

Depends on your secondary (and the rest of your build plan) and concept.

In which case which combo is good for this perma confuse concept character?

Edited April 18, 2020 by You

[Psyonico]

You'd also want a secondary with power boost to help increase the duration further.

 

Vanguard medallion only goes so far but on a permanent domination build, power boost ( or it's kins) well go a long way.

 

If you had an electric affinity to give you Amp Up, that would help even more

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, Psyonico said:

If you had an electric affinity to give you Amp Up, that would help even more

How do you cast Amp Up on yourself?

[Greycat]

... two mind/kin 'trollers and a mind/ dom? Controllers speed boost each other and the dom and just keep things rolling? Bit of tactics from Leadership to help with hitting, perhaps...

Edited April 18, 2020 by Greycat

[Redlynne]

Two Controllers with single target Confuse powers ought to be able to perma Confuse an AV (assuming they slotted their Confuse powers in order to do so).

[Coyote]

If you're going Dark and want to perma-Confuse AVs, I also like a secondary with Power Up.

Energy Assault is supposed to be good, and it has a PBAoE attack that has a chance to Stun, which can work well with stacking stuns with Heart of Darkness. For the same reason, Earth Assault would also work fine. Both can also put the Fiery Orb ATO in the power to get more AoE Stunning effect. This has nothing to do with soloing AVs, but does help for the rest of the game. I think I do like the idea of Dark/Energy with multiple stacking stuns in melee range.

[Redlynne]

Just now, Coyote said:

I think I do like the idea of Dark/Energy with multiple stacking stuns in melee range.

Just add Immobilize to Stuns for a "ghetto hold" synergy.

[tidge]

51 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

Two Controllers with single target Confuse powers ought to be able to perma Confuse an AV (assuming they slotted their Confuse powers in order to do so).

Would World of Confusion help at all against the AV? The base duration of the confuse is very short, but it ticks often. Confuse magnitudes can also be extended with Incarnates like Hybrid Control while durations can be extended with Alpha vigor.

[Redlynne]

13 minutes ago, tidge said:

Would World of Confusion help at all against the AV?

Closet of Confusion (what the power should be named with its pitifully small AoE) will add ... what ... +2 Mag to the Confusion stack *IF* you stay within 8ft of the AV (uh, is that a safe place to be?) ... which will of course Notify the AV that you're attempting to Confuse them (even if you're mega stealthed).

 

Will it help "at all against the AV?"

Well, I suppose it could ...

 

Will it help in a "useful way" against the AV?

Functionally no ... especially if you were trying to build a non-notify Confuse stack of Mag on the AV without drawing aggro onto yourself while doing that.

18 minutes ago, tidge said:

The base duration of the confuse is very short, but it ticks often.

A 1.5s duration is very short.

Too short for our purposes here of needing to build a DEEP Mag stack that is 56+ Mag deep.

[Coyote]

36 minutes ago, tidge said:

Would World of Confusion help at all against the AV? The base duration of the confuse is very short, but it ticks often. Confuse magnitudes can also be extended with Incarnates like Hybrid Control while durations can be extended with Alpha vigor.

 

No. Mini-world of Confusion has a 1.5 second duration and a 4 second tick. So even if you enhance the duration, and add Incarnate effects, you'll only be adding about 2 mag or so to the stack, which needs to be a constant minimum of 54 mag. That's really not worthwhile. Heck, the power isn't worthwhile in general, with that short duration/tick ratio and small (tiny) radius.

[Nayeh]

You could try a Pool(s) with Confuse + Poison secondary using Weaken. I recall one Task Force where a Plant Controller/Dominator was effortlessly landing Confuse on AV's. Which I suspect was due to Weaken application with a multitude of other debuffs.

 

[Twisted Toon]

Could a Grav/Time Controller hold an AV solo?

[Redlynne]

14 minutes ago, Twisted Toon said:

Could a Grav/Time Controller hold an AV solo?

Possibly ... it would depend on slotting and power recharge/rotation.  They wouldn't be able to do much more than just merely Hold the AV (try doing enough damage to overcome the AV's regeneration while doing nothing but spamming Hold powers).  The problem is getting enough time/attack opportunities in so as to build a deep enough stack (it would take at least 10 rotations of 2 Hold powers alternating to build up enough Mag) ... during which the AV will be attacking (either you or an aggro magnet).  However, if you've got an aggro magnet who can take the pounding for long enough, it CAN be done with the help of your Singularity (which also casts Gravity Distortion, so you'll get at least some additional Mag that way).

 

Ideally speaking you'd slot Gravity Distortion, Time Stop AND Singularity for increased Hold duration in order to realize that possibility.  Note that doing this will often times conflict with other (franken)slotting priorities for those powers, since damage is often times preferred over duration.

[You]

I think I am going to try a Mind/Energy dom.  What does the "-25% strength to confuse for 10s on target"?  Does it make the target more susceptible to be confused?

 

By the way, is it advisable to slot a FF +rech proc in every available powers of Energy just to get more recharge?

Thanks!

[Redlynne]

37 minutes ago, You said:

By the way, is it advisable to slot a FF +rech proc in every available powers of Energy just to get more recharge?

Depends on if you have the slots for that.  Bare minimum, I'd recommend the AoE powers get first priority for Force Feedback procs, due to the Chuck Lots of Dice!! strategy for getting procs from AoE powers, with the AoE powers that you'd be using repeatedly/regularly/routinely having highest priority.  Among the single target powers, you'd want to put a Force Feedback proc into the longest recharging power that you can work into your attack chain repeatedly/regularly/routinely while holding back on slotting that single target power with recharge enhancement, so as to keep the proc chance high.

 

After that, it's all down to math.