IO Enhancement Questions

[TungstenShark]

I stopped playing on live well before IOs came on the scene so I'm still trying to learn all the ins and outs. Is it correct to say it does not matter what level you slot an IO enhancement, as the bonuses level with you? In other words, if I slot one at say 27, it's no different than I slotted it at 50? I'm really trying to figure out if I need to wait til 50 and do the majority of my slotting (and just use generic IOs until then) or can I slot as I go?

 

By the same token, does that make say a level 27 IO recipe as valuable (or at least equal to) the same IO recipe at 50?

[Steel Dancer]

It's more accurate to say they won't degrade.

 

A level 25 accuracy IO won't level up with you, nor will it be as powerful as a level 50 accuracy IO, but it won't be any less powerful at 50 than it was at 25.

[TungstenShark]

Ah ha, gotcha. So it's still going to be best to save up and IO-out all your enhancements at max level then. This makes sense to me.

 

In a related question...there is no way to take a lower level IO recipe and max it out, right? That seems silly but I reckon I need to ask. I have some lower level recipes I've been hanging on to just in case.

[Redlynne]

Easy way to think about it is ... with SOs you'd need to reslot every 5 Levels because the SOs would "age out" and become non-operative at -3.

IOs do NOT suffer from this issue.

 

A Level 25 SO slotted at Level 22 will go from being +3 at 22 to being +2 at 23 to being +1 at 24 to being +0 at 25 to being -1 at 26 to being -2 at 27 and then -3 at 28.  Once you reach Level 29, the -4 Level 25 SO won't be operational for you anymore and will either need to be upgraded (expensive) or replaced (go to your SO Vendor).

 

By contrast, a Level 25 IO slotted at Level 22 will retain its enhancement value and not "break" or NEED replacement like SOs will all the way on up through Level 50.

 

If you're wanting to play on an INF budget and save INF, go ahead and slot everything (that you aren't going to be loading up with Set IOs) with common Level 25 IOs.  You can then use those common 25 IOs all the way up to Level 47, when you can craft/buy Level 50 common IOs to replace all of them.

[TungstenShark]

Ah ha, more good info!

 

Another question on set IOs...can they be of any level, or are some of the set IOs only a certain level or max at a certain level?

 

@Redlynne...taking your Time/Dual Pistols/Dark Defender build for example...most of the set IOs you have posted in your build are Level 27. Is this because these sets do not come in higher level versions?

[Silk]

...snip...

If you're wanting to play on an INF budget and save INF, go ahead and slot everything (that you aren't going to be loading up with Set IOs) with common Level 25 IOs.  You can then use those common 25 IOs all the way up to Level 47, when you can craft/buy Level 50 common IOs to replace all of them.

 

This.

[Mr. Vee]

Ah ha, more good info!

 

Another question on set IOs...can they be of any level, or are some of the set IOs only a certain level or max at a certain level?

 

@Redlynne...taking your Time/Dual Pistols/Dark Defender build for example...most of the set IOs you have posted in your build are Level 27. Is this because these sets do not come in higher level versions?

 

They come in higher level versions but they only retain set bonus effectiveness three levels below the level of the enhancement. So the 27s in Redlynne's build would have their bonuses work exemplared to level 24. It's become much easier to get enhancements and recipes at the level you desire because all of them on the market go into the same pool now and a winning bid gets you the level you bid on. It's a huge qol improvement. Alternatively if money is no object and you plan to exemplar a lot you can buy enhancement catalysts and attune your enhancements to work at any level (well the full level range of the set anyway).

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Enhancements and the various links off of it should explain a lot of this better than we could. Though it's been a bit outdated by the introduction of more sets with bonuses that work at every level, the basic information is still correct. The newer sets will indicate in their info when their bonuses are level independent.

[Myrmidon]

Ah ha, more good info!

 

Another question on set IOs...can they be of any level, or are some of the set IOs only a certain level or max at a certain level?

 

@Redlynne...taking your Time/Dual Pistols/Dark Defender build for example...most of the set IOs you have posted in your build are Level 27. Is this because these sets do not come in higher level versions?

 

 

Since we can attune them, levels for sets don’t matter as much. Merits are easy enough to come by, plus you can trade attuned enhancements now.

[Redlynne]

Another question on set IOs...can they be of any level, or are some of the set IOs only a certain level or max at a certain level?

 

@Redlynne...taking your Time/Dual Pistols/Dark Defender build for example...most of the set IOs you have posted in your build are Level 27. Is this because these sets do not come in higher level versions?

 

Exemplar Effects on Enhancements ... Set Bonuses.

 

Set Bonuses are always on, even if the power in which the Set is slotted isn't activated, and even if that power is greyed out due to exemplaring! However, you do start to lose the bonuses if you exemplar more than three levels under the level of the IOs in the Set.

 

The IOs that act like Set Bonuses give a benefit that most often applies a continuous effect globally to the character. And just like Set Bonuses, the power in which they are slotted can be greyed out due to exemplaring and the Global will still work. However, just like Set Bonuses, the Global stops working when the character is exemplared more than three levels under the level of the Global IO.

 

All the other Special IOs are called 'Procs.' Unlike the Globals, Procs depend on the power they are slotted in to be activated in order to work. If the power isn't activated, then no benefit from the Proc. Consequently, exemplaring lower than the level of the power means the power is greyed out and can't be used (even passive powers follow that rule), which means the Proc won't work. However, the upside of Procs is that if the power is active, the Proc always work, even if you exemplar way below the level of the Proc. Procs don't follow the -3 level rule that Globals and Set Bonuses do.

 

Procs that have a chance to do damage, do so based on the level of the character and not the level of the Proc.

 

Whenever you're looking at Set IOs, and what Level to pick for what you're going to slot ... always be thinking in terms of the Set IO being +3 to the Level that you want the Set Bonuses to "turn on" for you.

The "raw" Level breakpoints for Exemplar content will tend to be:

14 ... 19 ... 24 ... 28 (Moonfire Task Force) ... 29 ... 34 ... 39 ... and 44 ... purely for reasons of story arcs and Contact Levels.

 

This in turn means that the best Levels to set your Set IOs at are going to be:

17 ... 22 ... 27 ... 31 (Moonfire Task Force) ... 32 ... 37 ... 42 ... and 47 ... simply to match those groupings of story arcs and Contact Levels.

 

IOs will exactly match SO enhancement performance output at Level 26, so any enhancements of Level 25 and below will have below SO enhancement output at all Levels.  This means that the minimum Level of Set IO you want to slot for maximum Set Bonus "coverage" while Exemplar while maintaining SO-like performance from your Set IOs is going to be ... Level 27 ... because that gives you full Set Bonuses while Exemplared to Level 24+ for a wide variety of Flashback content and Task Forces/Strike Forces.  Some Sets are Level 30-50, however, so for them the next best option is Level 31, so as to be able to include the Moonfire Task Force "within range" of your Set Bonuses.  The final category that I can think of are some Snipe Sets that are Level 35-50, and for those I would recommend choosing Level 37 Set IOs so as to be able cover all of the Level 34+ Flashbacks, Task Forces and Strike Forces.

 

With Procs and Globals, if there's no enhancement value bound up in the IO, I'll always go for the minimum level on the IO simply so as to be able to slot it into early into the widest possible number of builds if leveling up an alt and I've later decided to respec out of that particular Proc (for whatever reason).

 

This is why whenever you look at ANY of my Built By Design For Exemplar builds you'll see MOST of the Set IOs being chosen as either Level 27 or Level 31, depending on the Level limits of the Set itself, with all of the Common IOs being Level 50 and any Frankenslotting of Set IOs where the Set Bonus is being discarded also being Level 50.  After that, it's a just a matter of setting all of the proc IOs to the absolute minimum Level for the Set except if the Set IO with the proc also happens to have an enhancement value on it (like Recharge/+Absorb for example) in which case it falls into the 27 or 31 bucket just like usual.  This then ensures that when using the Flashback system from Ouroboros, or when Exemplared for Task Forces, Strike Forces or in pick up groups, that your Set Bonuses are "working for you" at the widest possible range of Levels (24-50 or 28-50, essentially) so that you don't lose all of your Set Bonuses every time you Exemplar below Level 47 ... which is what happens if you just slot Level 50 Set IOs into everything.

 

Or to put it into automotive terms that might make more sense for some people ... it's the difference between designing for a broad/flat torque band over a wide range of RPMs versus designing for a "peaky" torque band that only yields maximum power/work at the maximum RPM end of the scale only.  Yes, the "peaky" design is better within its NARROW preferred range ... but that range is SMALL and actively discourages you from playing MOST of the game's content (because you self-gimp when doing 1-46 content).  The "broader" Exemplar Friendly design ensures that it's only when you start Exemplaring below SO Levels into the 1-23 Level range that you'll lose your Set Bonuses, but from Levels 24-50 you're operating at full (or very nearly full) Set Bonus "power" the whole time.  Since Levels 24-50 actually comprise the supermajority of the game's content, I find this to be an acceptable compromise between individual enhancement output by Level and the collective "oomph" of adding all of those Set Bonuses to my builds.  And really ... when you compare the throughput, you really aren't losing THAT MUCH enhancement value dropping from Level 50 down to Level 27 on your Set IOs when you're 5 or 6 slotting for Set Bonuses anyway, thanks to how Enhancement Dysfunction limits the top end that you can enhance your powers to.  So from a broad range of (acceptable) efficiency versus a narrow sliver of "maximal" performance ... I'll stick with the broader range of Exemplar Friendly ... thanks.

 

That's all.

 

Of course, this means that there's a side effect of being able to slot in more of these Set IOs while you're Leveling Up, so as to be able to "enjoy the ride" to 50 better, rather than having to wait for Level 50 to be able to get "anywhere" with your build because ... Life Begins (and ends?) At 50 ... or whatever.

[desarix]

Ah ha, more good info!

 

Another question on set IOs...can they be of any level, or are some of the set IOs only a certain level or max at a certain level?

 

@Redlynne...taking your Time/Dual Pistols/Dark Defender build for example...most of the set IOs you have posted in your build are Level 27. Is this because these sets do not come in higher level versions?

 

 

Since we can attune them, levels for sets don’t matter as much. Merits are easy enough to come by, plus you can trade attuned enhancements now.

 

Hang on let me see if I understand this correctly. Let's say I have managed through some sheer luck to get a full set of recipes for an MM pet damage set but the recipes are level 15. Since these are low level recipes their ingredients are also cheaper than their 47 level counterparts. So I then make this pet damage set and then attune it. So are you saying I can use this completed pet damage set to level 50 because it levels with my level and I would have only spent the amount I need for low level ingredients. Is this correct ?

[Mr. Vee]

Apart from the cost of the catalysts yes, that's correct. And even without the luck you can bid on the set at its lowest level in the market and get it at that level even if someone put it up at a different level. So if you intend to attune you might as well always grab it at the lowest level for earliest slotting.

[desarix]

Apart from the cost of the catalysts yes, that's correct. And even without the luck you can bid on the set at its lowest level in the market and get it at that level even if someone put it up at a different level. So if you intend to attune you might as well always grab it at the lowest level for earliest slotting.

 

This is amazing information. I did not know. Thank you. This changes everything. OMG I sold off some low level pet IOs because there were like 200 of them with no bids. I could kick myself. OMG the shieldwall level 10 recipe..... please ,please don't let me have sold it.

[Silk]

Nice info in this thread!

 

IOs will exactly match SO enhancement performance output at Level 26, so any enhancements of Level 25 and below will have below SO enhancement output at all Levels.  This means that the minimum Level of Set IO you want to slot for maximum Set Bonus "coverage" while Exemplar while maintaining SO-like performance from your Set IOs is going to be ... Level 27 ... because that gives you full Set Bonuses while Exemplared to Level 24+ for a wide variety of Flashback content and Task Forces/Strike Forces.  Some Sets are Level 30-50, however, so for them the next best option is Level 31, so as to be able to include the Moonfire Task Force "within range" of your Set Bonuses.  The final category that I can think of are some Snipe Sets that are Level 35-50, and for those I would recommend choosing Level 37 Set IOs so as to be able cover all of the Level 34+ Flashbacks, Task Forces and Strike Forces.

 

All the above becomes irrelevant if you attune all your IO set enhancement then?  Just making sure I follow correctly, You can basically get IO sets at lowest possible level and then attune them so you can use them from lvl 1 to 50 with full set bonuses working?

 

Ah yes I do believe so.

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Attuned

 

Example While Leveling Up

 

For instance, the Focused Smite set range is level 25-40.

 

    At level 22-25, it functions as a level 25 enhancement for aspect purposes.

    At 26, it functions as if it were level 26

    At 29, if functions as if it were level 29

    At 31, it function as if it were level 31... and so on up to...

    At level 40 and above, it functions as if it were level 40, its maximum.

 

Effects of Exemplaring

Effects of Exemplaring on Aspect Enhancement Values

 

When exemplaring, the effective aspect enhancement is figured as if it were the current natural level of the character, or, the maximum level of the range of enhancement if the character has outleveled it. Then the normal Exemplar Effects on Enhancements apply.

 

So, e.g., if the Attuned Enhancement had a range of 30-40 and the character was level 45 exemplaring to level 15, then the effective aspect enhancements would be the same as a level 40 enhancement exemplared to 15.

Effects of Exemplaring on Set Bonuses

 

For the sake of Bonus Sets, the bonus effects cut out when exemplaring more than three levels below the minimum of the Attuned Enhancement's range.

 

So. e.g., a level 20-40 Attuned Enhancement would have its Bonuses cut out at 16 and below but would still be 'on' at level 17 and above.

 

[desarix]

Are attuned enhancements an I25 thing only ?

[Mr. Vee]

Yes, Silk, only downside other than cost of catalyst is that they then become unable to be level boosted. So if you plan on only playing high level content you might want to go that direction instead. Alternatively suppose you're an altoholic like me and you have a toon you're only going to use for penny yin tf, e.g. in that case you'd be better off getting level 27 ios and boosting them. They'd still behave as 27 for set bonus purposes but have the stats boosted.

 

And no desarix, they should be in i24, but the market change that allows recipes and enhancements to change to the level they are bid at is i25 I believe.

[Silk]

Yes, Silk, only downside other than cost of catalyst is that they then become unable to be level boosted. So if you plan on only playing high level content you might want to go that direction instead. Alternatively suppose you're an altoholic like me and you have a toon you're only going to use for penny yin tf, e.g. in that case you'd be better off getting level 27 ios and boosting them. They'd still behave as 27 for set bonus purposes but have the stats boosted.

 

And no desarix, they should be in i24, but the market change that allows recipes and enhancements to change to the level they are bid at is i25 I believe.

 

Good to know thanks for the tips.  This should be stickied in the guides section lol

[Mr. Vee]

You and your thread moving  ;)

[Myrmidon]

Yes, Silk, only downside other than cost of catalyst is that they then become unable to be level boosted. So if you plan on only playing high level content you might want to go that direction instead. Alternatively suppose you're an altoholic like me and you have a toon you're only going to use for penny yin tf, e.g. in that case you'd be better off getting level 27 ios and boosting them. They'd still behave as 27 for set bonus purposes but have the stats boosted.

 

You can also mix and match the IOs (some attuned, some boosted, etc.)  depending on their availability.

 

All of these options make this game so much more enjoyable now than it ever was  prior to Freedom.

[Erydanus]

Picking up from something far upstream; I didn't quote because I originally had several comments but decided to pare it down to 2.

 

Redlynne said in a previous post "IOs will exactly match SO enhancement performance output at Level 26, so any enhancements of Level 25 and below will have below SO enhancement output at all Levels.  This means that the minimum Level of Set IO you want to slot for maximum Set Bonus "coverage" while Exemplar while maintaining SO-like performance from your Set IOs is going to be ... Level 27 ... "

 

This is not totally correct. It is for single-attribute set pieces but not for multiparts as they have higher values.  (Chart on Paragon wiki if you want to look at the range: https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Enhancements#Relative_Enhancement_Values)

 

Level 21 dual-part and level 18 tri-part set IOs have combined values that meet or exceed SOs. Further I'd argue that considering a single-part IO at level 25 (32%) to be below SO levels (33%) is maybe an overstatement; especially with ED factoring in. the difference between 3 even level SOs and 3 level 25 IOs is trivial: 94.9 vs 92.2. Even for 1-slotted parameters the difference between a +0 SO and a level 25 IO is just not, to me, significant enough to worry about. It's nice to get +3 SOs but I always felt they were more of a buff than an everyday level of power.

 

The way I view it, there really isn't any appreciable loss of potence using generic IOs at 25 and multipart IOs at 20 or higher.  Level 27 is a perfectly good level to use as a goal for many reasons Redlynne outlined, but if you want to use something in the 20-26 range because you can slot it right now or you have the recipe/materials in hand or whatever, I think it is absolutely fine and you should do so.

 

The other thing I wanted to say was that I absolutely firmly believe that even if you just want to get your toes wet in the world of IOs you should do so as early as 22 with generic 25s and any set pieces that you find convenient to use and mix in, even disregarding set bonuses. I just had a hard reminder how good my advice is the other day when one of my alts reached level 22 and I just could not get the set IO recipes I wanted for him. I was just looking for odds and ends, but I was coming up empty. Everything was either sold out or more costly than I was prepared for. (It was just a bad mix of categories he needed, alas.) I was in a hurry, and I bought SOs. A couple levels later, I had to buy SOs again.  I forgot how costly level 30 SOs really are. The cost of the 25 and 30 SOs absolutely would have paid off self-crafting most of the level 25 generic IOs I would have needed.  I should have stopped and crafted his generics and made the investment. (I actually have crafter alts, but this character is not in a SG with them and it would have been a hassle to email myself 30+ IOs. Again, I ... should have.)

[Sable Phoenix]

Question, if you exemplar below the level that you acquired a power in your build, do the set bonuses in that power go away?  For example, if my /Dark Mastermind takes Shadow Servant at level 36, logically I would think that if you exemp below 36 and the power grays out you would lose any set bonuses too, so might as well slot level 36 set IOs into it.  But if counterintuitively you still get set bonuses off of grayed out powers, you're still going to want to slot them as low as is feasible regardless of the level you added them to your build.

[Adeon Hawkwood]

Question, if you exemplar below the level that you acquired a power in your build, do the set bonuses in that power go away?  For example, if my /Dark Mastermind takes Shadow Servant at level 36, logically I would think that if you exemp below 36 and the power grays out you would lose any set bonuses too, so might as well slot level 36 set IOs into it.  But if counterintuitively you still get set bonuses off of grayed out powers, you're still going to want to slot them as low as is feasible regardless of the level you added them to your build.

Set bonuses turn off if you exemplar more than 3 levels below the level of the IO, it doesn't matter whether or not you still have access to the power.

 

Slotting low level IOs is indeed beneficial for keeping set bonuses at low levels. However the downside is that the IOs themselves are weaker. An alternative is to use Enhancement Catalysts to make attuned IOs which basically scale up or down based on your current level. So you get full strength IOs at level 50 and still keep your set bonuses when exemplaring.

[Erydanus]

Right. That's exactly why Redlynne suggested 27 as a sweet spot for exemplaring ... though I disagreed and said I thought it was fine to go as low as 20-25 depending on the piece.

 

When you're dealing with a global such as Karma: Knockback Protection which doesn't have any enhancement parameter to it, the most ideal level would be the lowest level it comes in: 10.