Blast Power Tiers (i.e. non-Sonic Blast Viability)

[Bopper]

1 minute ago, Sir Myshkin said:

I like my TA/A Proc Monster TYVM

I should ask, because I haven't tested it but you have one so you'll know. Does Rain of Arrows cast a pseudopet or does its Proc chances take advantage of the long base recharge? My bias is assuming it's a pseudopet, but you might educate me.

[Sir Myshkin]

20 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Does Rain of Arrows cast a pseudopet or does its Proc chances take advantage of the long base recharge?

Pseudopet.

[Bopper]

Just now, Sir Myshkin said:

Pseudopet.

Ah, a shame. I'll have to review your TA/Archery and see what the proc-ability is. I don't see it off hand, but I'm not as familiar with the sets.

[Funkenstein]

An easy way to boost Sonic, specially since the snipe change,  should be to port the Sentinel Screech version to others ATs.

Then we have a good T8 single target with damage/utility (like Cosmic Burst).

 

Eh, */Device got his Taser change to do some nice damage, why not Screech ?

 

[Bopper]

3 minutes ago, Funkenstein said:

An easy way to boost Sonic, specially since the snipe change,  should be to port the Sentinel Screech version to others ATs.

Then we have a good T8 single target with damage/utility (like Cosmic Burst).

 

Eh, */Device got his Taser change to do some nice damage, why not Screech ?

 

Fully agree and it probably be suggested in the Suggestion Forums. Not sure if they'll consider it, but I really wold hope so.

[Redlynne]

8 hours ago, warlockiii said:

but I was just saying you spend a lot of time on trash

Except, we've got multiple people in this thread saying that trash melts in seconds, so the speed up of -Resistance "doesn't matter" there since they get wiped out too fast (in team play).

 

Yes there's a lot of trash to take out, but that trash gets taken out quickly (per unit of trash).  Sure, there's a LOT of trash to take out, but individually few of them last long at all ... especially if you've got a team with you.  Trash may comprise 80% of what you defeat, but trash won't be consuming 80% of the time you're fighting.

[Bastille Boy]

I've rolled a bunch of Sonic/ defenders, and I've played a few into the 30s and 40s, but I have yet to get one up to 50. (Edit 5/1: This is no longer true.) I have a few other low-level defenders. The one defender I got to 50 is an Emp/Beam. My level 50 corruptor is Thermal/Ice.

 

My totally subjective impression is that Ice feels more powerful than Beam and Sonic. All three are good sets, but Ice feels as if it is doing more damage, and the holds are useful.

On 4/24/2020 at 4:13 PM, Silverado said:

Ice has very high single target DPS, as well as 2 single target holds (one of them being rotational).

My Therm/Ice Defender can easily solo (no temps/incs) most AVs and GMs, including Lusca

I haven't soloed AVs yet on my Ice/Therm corruptor, but I definitely think it's a great solo combination. In the middle levels, the only useful Thermal power while soloing is the AOE heal, but that's okay, because Ice Blast is so great. At higher levels, the debuffs from Thermal are really helpful.

Edited May 1, 2020 by ejworthing

[Coyote]

It's not my fault, it's Bopper's wicked sense of humor 😛.

I personally don't consider Archery as a top set, however it gets mention when people ask about farming. The amazing cooldown on Rain of Arrows makes it great for farming, and the other weaknesses of the set aren't that relevant in that scenario.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Coyote

[warlockiii]

5 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Except, we've got multiple people in this thread saying that trash melts in seconds, so the speed up of -Resistance "doesn't matter" there since they get wiped out too fast (in team play).

 

Yes there's a lot of trash to take out, but that trash gets taken out quickly (per unit of trash).  Sure, there's a LOT of trash to take out, but individually few of them last long at all ... especially if you've got a team with you.  Trash may comprise 80% of what you defeat, but trash won't be consuming 80% of the time you're fighting.

If that's what it's like (at +4), that hardly seems interesting. I'll probably stick to duoing or roll another alt at that point. A group packing that much damage probably is going to be fine on the boss also then--even if I'm alt tabbed and watching Community on Netflix. So again, it's still seconds you're shaving off. I'm not eating my vegetables and playing Sonic, @Redlynne:)..

[Bopper]

1 minute ago, warlockiii said:

If that's what it's like (at +4), that hardly seems interesting. I'll probably stick to duoing or roll another alt at that point. A group packing that much damage probably is going to be fine on the boss also then--even if I'm alt tabbed and watching Community on Netflix. So again, it's still seconds you're shaving off. I'm not eating my vegetables and playing Sonic, @Redlynne:)..

It depends on the team really, but at +4, you certainly may not steamroll quite as much, but sonic will still bring Howl and Dreadful Wail to the table to help the team get through a mob faster. 

[Bopper]

3 hours ago, Coyote said:

it's Bopper's wicked sense of humor

That genuinely might be the nicest comment I've had on the forums. You get me. Haha

[Frosticus]

16 hours ago, Hjarki said:

Actually, I think I'm the only who is using metrics that have bearing on the game while everyone else is trying to argue from some sort of sandbox that doesn't mimic game play.

There is a chance you are the only one in the game that knows what they are talking about...

I'm betting you've never sat down and crunched out sonic chains and then applied them in game because you said yourself you are just pulling the info from mids. Plus your info is inaccurate. 

 

So yes, there is a chance you are the only one that knows, or there is a chance you've never actually played sonic to any meaningful degree and are just spouting off nonsense. 

[Frosticus]

Either spawn clearing doesn't matter, so the only thing that matters is hard targets

Or spawn clearing does matter, so both the ability to clear minions and bosses+ is important.

 

In either case sonic is still the best choice if you want to facilitate team kill speeds even with all the procs in the game. 

It is not the best choice if you yourself want to do personal direct damage at the expense of team efficiency. That would be fire for st and archery for aoe. That is ok and hopefully no one tells you that you are a bad person for choosing something different because there is an entire myriad of capabilities in between. Defenders are well worth looking at for their powerful debuffs attached to blasts like the -dam of chemical rounds, or the -tohit of dark.

 

Sonic is not the fastest solo set, but it is hands down the set with the most control.

So you pay a price for that level of control and that level of team force multiplication. 

[Hjarki]

28 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

There is a chance you are the only one in the game that knows what they are talking about...

I'm betting you've never sat down and crunched out sonic chains and then applied them in game because you said yourself you are just pulling the info from mids. Plus your info is inaccurate. 

 

So yes, there is a chance you are the only one that knows, or there is a chance you've never actually played sonic to any meaningful degree and are just spouting off nonsense. 

You'd lose that bet - my conclusions on Sonic are the result of extensively playing the set.

 

I pulled the info from Mid's because it's far more convenient than loading up the game and looking at the numbers there. However, the 'corrections' aren't actually more accurate - for example, Bopper used two completely different metrics for evaluating Sonic vs. Beam Rifle/Dual Pistols.

 

What people are saying just doesn't match how the game is played. They're talking about idealized situations that never happen - infinite length battles with uninterrupted chains of attacks in battles which somehow speed-to-kill still matters.

 

What I'm trying to stress is that the single big -resist debuff is far more important than the rest of the chain - to the point where the rest of the chain barely matters at all. So crippling your performance in every other aspect of the game so you can do slightly better on an AV/GM where it probably doesn't matter isn't a good tradeoff.

 

Sonic is a set like Force Field or Empathy. It's fairly good at low levels when you're still in 'team mode' and you've got people wandering around in groups of 8 carefully engaging spawns. But as you start to reach higher levels and your 'team' is 5 - 8 different solos/duos spread across the map, the notion of 'support' being a 'force multiplier' vanishes. The only time the team comes together is for that big AV/GM battle. But in that battle, it's almost never about dps - it's about control and mitigation.

[Bopper]

1 hour ago, Hjarki said:

Bopper used two completely different metrics for evaluating Sonic vs. Beam Rifle/Dual Pistols

I actually wasn't making the comparison. I was showing your metric, while showing the caveat that you can't stack it until it comes off cool down (*also correcting your numbers). Sonic doesn't have that problem because you can fill the gaps with the other attacks. And to build a resistance debuff attack chain you can use your metric to decide how to possibly best prioritize your next attack.

 

If you want to truly compare debuff capabilities, I'll gladly show my work. I've done it before if you want to dig through my early forum posts for graphs that showed different chains achieving various average resistance debuffs. But you can take my word that single target can achieve an average of 97+% resistance debuffs without procs. BR or DP can do ...less than that. 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Bopper

[Frosticus]

1 hour ago, Hjarki said:

You'd lose that bet - my conclusions on Sonic are the result of extensively playing the set.

Fair enough, there a lots of people out there that spend time doing things and never excel at it. Nothing wrong with being part of that group.

 

1 hour ago, Hjarki said:

I pulled the info from Mid's because it's far more convenient than loading up the game and looking at the numbers there. However, the 'corrections' aren't actually more accurate - for example, Bopper used two completely different metrics for evaluating Sonic vs. Beam Rifle/Dual Pistols.

 

What people are saying just doesn't match how the game is played. They're talking about idealized situations that never happen - infinite length battles with uninterrupted chains of attacks in battles which somehow speed-to-kill still matters.

 

What I'm trying to stress is that the single big -resist debuff is far more important than the rest of the chain - to the point where the rest of the chain barely matters at all. So crippling your performance in every other aspect of the game so you can do slightly better on an AV/GM where it probably doesn't matter isn't a good tradeoff.

 

Sonic is a set like Force Field or Empathy. It's fairly good at low levels when you're still in 'team mode' and you've got people wandering around in groups of 8 carefully engaging spawns. But as you start to reach higher levels and your 'team' is 5 - 8 different solos/duos spread across the map, the notion of 'support' being a 'force multiplier' vanishes. The only time the team comes together is for that big AV/GM battle. But in that battle, it's almost never about dps - it's about control and mitigation.

Sonic can put a 40% -res debuff on a single target in 3 seconds. If your team composition doesn't benefit from that then they don't benefit from much and you may as well just door sit with any debuff set. 

 

Conversely sonic can put a 20% -res debuff on most of the spawn (every spawn) in 2.5 seconds. If your team composition doesn't benefit from that they they don't benefit from much and you may as well just door sit with any debuff set. 

 

 

 

[Hjarki]

4 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

Fair enough, there a lots of people out there that spend time doing things and never excel at it. Nothing wrong with being part of that group.

 

Sonic can put a 40% -res debuff on a single target in 3 seconds. If your team composition doesn't benefit from that then they don't benefit from much and you may as well just door sit with any debuff set. 

 

Conversely sonic can put a 20% -res debuff on most of the spawn (every spawn) in 2.5 seconds. If your team composition doesn't benefit from that they they don't benefit from much and you may as well just door sit with any debuff set. 

Your team can't benefit from it because they're nowhere near you - they're off fighting somewhere else while you're helplessly flailing around trying to kill a spawn with your anemic damage.

 

If you do decide to tag along after one of your more capable teammates, that -20% you're applying doesn't come close to making up the shortfall in damage you bring to the table.

[Bopper]

28 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

Your team can't benefit from it because they're nowhere near you - they're off fighting somewhere else while you're helplessly flailing around trying to kill a spawn with your anemic damage.

Your counter argument has turned into making up a phony hypothetical? Is this what happens when numbers don't support your claims? That's pretty weak, honestly.

 

28 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

If you do decide to tag along after one of your more capable teammates, that -20% you're applying doesn't come close to making up the shortfall in damage you bring to the table

Let's look at the math. 

NewDMG = DMG(1 - OrigRes)(1+ResDebuff)

By applying an additional 20% resistance debuff you achieve

NewerDMG = DMG(1-OrigRes)(1+ResDebuff+0.20)

 

So your -20% debuff will apply an additional DPS equal to 20% of all of your teammates damage including procs. So even though your personal DPS is lacking, your single debuff more than makes up for it in larger teams. Take your damage + 0.2x(team damage), and that is your effective dps. Your more capable teammates have you to thank for melting enemies.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Bopper

[Hjarki]

9 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Your counter argument has turned into making up a phony hypothetical? Is this what happens when numbers don't support your claims? That's pretty weak, honestly.

 

Let's look at the math. 

NewDMG = DMG(1 - OrigRes)(1+ResDebuff)

By applying an additional 20% resistance debuff you achieve

NewerDMG = DMG(1-OrigRes)(1+ResDebuff+0.20)

 

So your -20% debuff will apply an additional DPS equal to 20% of all of your teammates damage including procs. So even though your personal DPS is lacking, your single debuff more than makes up for it in larger teams. Take your damage + 0.2x(team damage), and that is your effective dps. Your more capable teammates have you to thank for melting enemies.

My argument hasn't changed it all. It's just that people have been nit-picking irrelevancies rather than addressing it. Bear in mind that the corrected numbers say exactly the same thing as my original numbers did: that -resist debuffing primarily rests in a single large debuff, with the remainder providing half or less of the value.

 

That -20% debuff doesn't apply to "all of your teammates" damage. In the vast majority of content, you are not surrounded by 8 teammates. You are next to maybe one or two of them - and if it's two of them, probably one of them is playing a pure support build that doesn't contribute much. The only time you're near a large number of other players is when everything coalesces on the AV/GM fight.

 

But there aren't very many AV/GM team fights where that -resist is actually meaningful. If you've got the mitigation/control to win the fight, you just beat the AV/GM down. Saving a bit of time is meaningless compared to the time it took you to wade through all the trash on the way to AV/GM.

 

You're speculating about how it would work in some other game, not in CoH.

[Coyote]

23 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

You're speculating about how it would work in some other game, not in CoH.

 

Or they're not always playing on an optimized Incarnate team where everyone can solo all of the spawns, debuffs are only relevant if they're applied in less than 2 seconds, etc.

 

Also, I'm not even sure where these teams exist, where everyone splits off and wipes spawns out too fast to bother debuffing... I have some characters who solo on +4/x8, and if they split up to solo a spawn, the majority wouldn't wipe it so fast that Sonic's debuffs wouldn't be relevant. In fact, for a good amount of the builds, laying down an AoE mez to prevent return fire before starting the wiping process IS the opener, not a nuke... so while that's being applied, the Sonic character could be applying Howl and get the 20% damage increase to both their damage and my damage. Really, having characters soloing spawns is only efficient for teams that are low on support characters and high on soloing melee builds (or some Blaster builds, but not against all enemies... good luck taking the high-Defense Blaster against Rularuu at +4/x8, for example).

 

There is a part of the game where what you are saying applies. And I admit that there are a lot of teams playing door missions on Peregrine Island, avoiding some of the tough enemy groups, and with multiple optimized characters, that smashes spawns so fast that nobody cares if you have a 20% -Res debuff to lay down if the team would just hold off on killing the spawn for two more seconds. And in that part of the game, being able to stack debuffs on a Boss is far less relevant than your first opening -Res debuff followed by a couple of high-damage blasts, then it's on to the next spawn.

 

But that's not the whole game, and in other parts of the game where spawns take more than 10 seconds to wipe, layered debuffs start to matter, more than single-shot opening debuffs.

[Bopper]

18 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

original numbers did: that -resist debuffing primarily rests in a single large debuff, with the remainder providing half or less of the value.

Your original numbers simply showed how quickly you can apply a significant debuff within a small animation window. You're over emphasizing a metric that is good to use for chaining debuffs but doesn't focus on the end result, which is the amount of resistance debuff. In about 2.5 seconds, Piercing Beam or Piercing Rounds can apply a significant debuff (20% for 10 seconds), but once you apply it, you're done until you can fire that power off again. Sonic can use Screech-Shriek to hit 40% debuff in 3 seconds. Then continue to ramp up if necessary (e.g. AV/GM/EB) to reach 90+% resistance debuffs.  And if you need to hit more targets, you have Howl which can hit a handful of targets fairly easily and can be designed to cover a large area with range buffs.

 

25 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

That -20% debuff doesn't apply to "all of your teammates" damage

If there is a significant target of interest, your teammates will be hitting the target you're hitting. If you're worried about the minions and lieutenents not being apart of your debuffs...well I can't help you if that's trouble for you.

 

27 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

But there aren't very many AV/GM team fights where that -resist is actually meaningful.

Again, Howl on a mob is meaningful. Might be superfluous, but so is most DPS in the game. If you're steamrolling, no debuff matters. If you're not steamrolling, then your debuffs matter.

 

30 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

You're speculating about how it would work in some other game, not in CoH.

I don't speculate. I just back up my claims with game mechanics, numbers and evidence. I also provide context instead of throw out metrics that try to prove my point yet doesn't apply to actual content. If you prove my numbers wrong, then I'll concede it. But I've yet to see that.

[Hjarki]

17 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Your original numbers simply showed how quickly you can apply a significant debuff within a small animation window.

They indicate how much debuffing is provided per animation time - which is a critical metric. It tells you how efficiently you're using that animation time. Remember, what I was actually arguing - as opposed to the straw men you've been attacking - is that the bulk of the -resist debuffing occurs with a single power. Even your numbers demonstrate the truth of that statement, even as you try to avoid addressing it.

20 minutes ago, Bopper said:

If there is a significant target of interest, your teammates will be hitting the target you're hitting. If you're worried about the minions and lieutenents not being apart of your debuffs...well I can't help you if that's trouble for you.

'Significant targets of interest' are AV/GM. Everything else simply goes down too fast. There isn't a boss in the game that can stand up to even two Scrappers/Stalkers pounding on it for more than a few seconds - by the time you layer on your -resist debuffs, it's already dead.

21 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Again, Howl on a mob is meaningful. Might be superfluous, but so is most DPS in the game. If you're steamrolling, no debuff matters. If you're not steamrolling, then your debuffs matter.

It's only meaningful for another player if it's coordinated with what they're doing. But it almost never is. What I've been stressing is that you can't depend on other players to justify your presence in the team - you bring buffs/debuffs for yourself and if they happen to help someone else, that's nice but not essential.

26 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Also, I'm not even sure where these teams exist, where everyone splits off and wipes spawns out too fast to bother debuffing... I have some characters who solo on +4/x8, and if they split up to solo a spawn, the majority wouldn't wipe it so fast that Sonic's debuffs wouldn't be relevant. In fact, for a good amount of the builds, laying down an AoE mez to prevent return fire before starting the wiping process IS the opener, not a nuke... so while that's being applied, the Sonic character could be applying Howl and get the 20% damage increase to both their damage and my damage. Really, having characters soloing spawns is only efficient for teams that are low on support characters and high on soloing melee builds (or some Blaster builds, but not against all enemies... good luck taking the high-Defense Blaster against Rularuu at +4/x8, for example).

They exist in pretty every pug I'm ever in. You've got a few power builds who effectively do everything - and then non-power builds who don't really contribute much but tag along in their wake.

 

Now, I guess you could try to talk about things few people ever do (Rularuu @ +4/x8) to justify a certain approach. But then you're really just saying you're willing to accept being terrible elsewhere on the off-chance you'll run this niche content. Even then, your specific example is an odd one since */Sonic would be inferior to */Dark against unusual attack categories.

 

As I noted before, I think you (and others) are dreaming about a game that doesn't exist. Playing a pure 'force multiplier' doesn't make sense in a game where the people whose force you're purportedly 'multiplying' don't need it - and certainly aren't going to wait up for you to apply buffs/debuffs that don't make a meaningful impact on their performance.

 

Listen. I get it. You don't want the game to devolve down into a bunch of solo toons at 50/Incarnate. I don't really want that either. But that's how the game works.

[Bopper]

9 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

They indicate how much debuffing is provided per animation time - which is a critical metric. It tells you how efficiently you're using that animation time. Remember, what I was actually arguing - as opposed to the straw men you've been attacking - is that the bulk of the -resist debuffing occurs with a single power. Even your numbers demonstrate the truth of that statement, even as you try to avoid addressing it.

It's not a critical metric, but it's a metric that can be useful. The bulk of the -resist debuffing occurs from a single power I don't buy. Either you're saying the mob dies too fast to let a second power take effect (thus debuffs don't matter anyways) or you're applying logic from other sets that have to wait for cooldown, or you are assuming you are getting the full effect of your "efficient" debuff yet disregarding the fact in the time that debuff wears off sonic could have applied far more resistance debuffs or the target already died. You can't debuff what is dead.

 

I have not avoided addressing anything, I said many times you can fit nearly two Sonic Attacks in the same time it takes your Piercing attack to animate. Don't make stuff up, because I will call you out on it. Your analysis is flawed, but we've see than over multiple pages already. 

 

Let's put your "critical metric" to actual use. I'll use Piercing Beams since it's the superior option.

Piercing Beams: 20% debuff for 10 seconds, takes 2.508 seconds to animate. Takes 4 seconds to recharge in high recharge builds (350% recharge). So your timeline with the enemy is wait 2.508 seconds, apply a 20% debuff, at 6.508 seconds you can start to animate your next debuff, at 9.016s your 2nd debuff stacks, at 12.508 seconds your 1st debuff wears off. So you achieve at best 40% debuff for ~3.5 seconds, most of the time only have 20% debuff while using a power that is slow to animate.

 

For Sonic, you can do the following:

Shriek takes 1.188 seconds to animate, 20% debuff applied for 5 seconds. Screech takes 1.716 and at 2.904s you hit 40% debuff. Shriek takes 1.188 seconds to animate and you hit 60% debuff at 4.092s. Scream takes 1.848s to animate and at 5.94s you hit 80% debuff. Shriek starts to animate, at 6.188s your first Shriek wears off (down to 60%), at 7.128s your 3rd Shriek applies and your debuff reaches 80% once again.

 

So class, what have we learned?

Sonic can apply its 20% debuff faster, fast enough that its effects will probably take place before your teammate's first attack lands.

Sonic can reach 40% debuff in nearly as much time as Piercing Beam/Rounds can apply its 20% debuff.

Sonic can reach 60% in ~4 seconds and stay at or above 60% going forward.

Before Piercing Beams applies its 2nd debuff, Sonic is already at 80% debuff (and has been for nearly 2 seconds).

Your debuff per animation time is nice, but it means jack-shit when it comes to real gameplay or for measuring Sonic's debuff capability. You can't take the same Damage per Animation metric used for DPS and think it directly applies to Debuff per Animation. DPA is useful as each attack applies damage and you can build a good DPS attack chain using it. Debuff Per Animation is not useful unless you are chaining attacks that all provide the same debuff (or treat the other attacks as 0 debuff). This is what I did when I incorporated cooldown to your metric (and was extremely generous by assuming 500% recharge), to illustrate exactly how that Debuff will apply in game situations. You missed that point when I tried to explain it to you. If you think I'm wrong, then prove me wrong or get off the court. I can't spend all day dunking on you.

 

14 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

'Significant targets of interest' are AV/GM. Everything else simply goes down too fast. There isn't a boss in the game that can stand up to even two Scrappers/Stalkers pounding on it for more than a few seconds - by the time you layer on your -resist debuffs, it's already dead.

Again...for numerous times it's been stated, if everything is getting railroaded already, you having more DPS or more debuffs won't matter. Stop making an argument everyone has already stated. You are arguing in circles, and it's sad.

 

16 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

It's only meaningful for another player if it's coordinated with what they're doing. But it almost never is. What I've been stressing is that you can't depend on other players to justify your presence in the team - you bring buffs/debuffs for yourself and if they happen to help someone else, that's nice but not essential.

If you have to coordinate the fact your teammates should attack the enemies, you have bigger problems than powerset choices. If you can't attack the enemies your teammates are attacking, then you have bigger problems than powerset choices. 

 

19 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

As I noted before, I think you (and others) are dreaming about a game that doesn't exist. Playing a pure 'force multiplier' doesn't make sense in a game where the people whose force you're purportedly 'multiplying' don't need it - and certainly aren't going to wait up for you to apply buffs/debuffs that don't make a meaningful impact on their performance.

Once again, everyone here has already stated if you are on a team railroading, you don't need to care about what DPS or Debuffs you're bringing to the table. You care when you play content that is actually a challenge or with a team that is not as strong. Sonic can bring up a team that is not as strong and it can provide significant assistance to content that is challenging. 

 

[Zeraphia]

On 4/24/2020 at 11:54 PM, Coyote said:

 

I get that you started the thread from the premise that everyone is suggesting Sonic, thus it must be significantly better than some other sets. To be honest, I'm not sure that I've heard that before... not that I think Sonic is bad, but if I had to bet on what would seem the top set according to the forums, it would be either Fire or Ice. With occasional mentions of DP, Water, and Archery.

 

All the blast sets are generally pretty solid, and some will come out ahead or behind the curve depending on what's important to you. Beam Rifle isn't good at AoE, yet it's one of the top mentioned sets for AV soloing. Fire Blast is commonly mentioned as a great set, but provides no damage mitigation. Etc. Everything has some strengths and some weaknesses, and how good it is for you really depends on what your priorities are. Sonic is a good set overall, but I'm surprised to hear that people mention it as their top choice for anything other than teaming.

Well, realistically...

 

If you want to solo (no character concept in mind) and are looking at what does the job best why would you choose Defender/Corruptor (as a whole, there are exceptions**)? There's very few options that aren't totally outclassed by another AT in a solo scenario. You're really playing these ATs for their ability to contribute to a team, typically.** You have Scrappers/Stalkers/Brutes/(recently improved)Tankers/(also improved)Blasters/Sentinels that are much better known for their solo capabilities. 

 

Why choose Sonic? Because honestly Defender damage isn't typically anything amazing by itself. I'm not counting obvious outliers like Storm against a single non-moving target, but think about it like this... if I'm not going to really be dishing out those numbers like the rest of my team will, why should I really try to? Sonic builds -res by itself no matter what, when you give an entire team the ability to deal almost double the damage that it normally would've with high enough recharge, Sonic packs an extreme punch to a team. Sonic is not bad at all, an example is on things like iTrials and RHW runs where Sonic's building of -res makes things like that possible due to how it magnifies everyone's damage potential on the entire league against hard targets. I didn't make my Nature/Sonic Defender to solo, I made it to be able to magnify my league/teams to victory in hard content and be a very helpful contributor. 

 

You are right, it wouldn't be my top choice though for soloing, but the game is centered around teaming with others. I genuinely wouldn't play this game as much as I do if I just sat there lonely in missions the entire time. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Zeraphia

[Zeraphia]

On 4/24/2020 at 5:11 AM, Hjarki said:

I'd argue that Sonic is actually one of the worst Blast sets in current play. The value of a -resist debuff is based not just on its existence but also its duration and activation time. In practice, about half the value of the entire Sonic Blast -resist debuffing comes from a single power: Screech. Moreover, nothing in Sonic Blast permits you to slot Achilles' Heel, Annihilation or Fury of the Gladiator procs.

 

This leads to a result where both Dual Pistols and Beam Rifle are roughly equivalent to Sonic Blast in terms of debuffing potential. They may only have one -resist debuff, but it's capable of slotting an additional -resist proc (and one that will rarely be on a single target except from users of those sets) and it's better than anything Sonic Blast has to offer (by a large margin) except for Screech. The advantage Sonic Blast has over Dual Pistols/Beam Rifle is minor, but the penalties it pays are massive in terms of the damage it deals.

 

Moreover, Sonic Blast is a poor choice for any 'active' support set because the more time you spend with your support set, the less time you spend with Sonic's debuffing.

This is just so radically inaccurate. You don't play Sonic Blast to "compete with other Blast sets!" you play to to essentially "buff" your teammates' damage. Its advantage in -res is not "minor" it becomes major because it applies to all eight members on a team. That is serious debuffing. You can slot Achilles' Heel in your T9 and you can slot Annihilation in Howl (turns the power into almost -32.5% res), that basically makes it act like a higher debuffing rain power with good damage in AoE to start packs with on a team, that is a substantial contribution when all of the mob has -40% res on it (if you started Howl and proc'd Anni you'd get -72.5%). BR does not provide nearly as much -res, nor does it provide -res in the amount of time that Sonic can. If you can charge into a pack with your T9 or shoot from a distance with Howl, you have substantially contributed to your team's AoE damage output. Further, bosses will always remain, giving them -res makes your team able to kill it more quickly. Sonic does not disappoint by any means on teaming.