[v3.0.1 and v3.1.0] Super Reflexes/Martial Arts ... NO GET HITSU!!

[killigraphy]

2 hours ago, CaptainLupis said:

I just got my SR/MA tank to 22 after running it through Praetoria, and few Talos missions, and was thinking about what direction to take her, as I already had softcapped def (when using storm kick) even just using common IOs. Then I saw you link this in Bill Z's scaling damage res thread. After my head stopped swimming I thought, damn, I've already taken boxing, tough and cobra strike, looks like I managed to do everything wrong! Ah well, I still have my free respecs at least, so I might give your way a try.

Sounds to me like you're gonna replace a power for heal self ;]

[Redlynne]

13 hours ago, killigraphy said:

I fuck with this build so much....the only problem?

 

MA is probably the worst looking set since Psionic melee. Storm Kick's 10% to everything is too beastly to ignore however. They need to change MA's storm kick, with MC's storm kick animation. Besides that, this build S tier.

Considering that I've been playing Martial Arts since Issue 2 ... I'm probably (quite!) biased in thinking that the animations for Martial Arts look fine (even Crippling Axe Kick and Eagle's Claw).

6 hours ago, CaptainLupis said:

I just got my SR/MA tank to 22 after running it through Praetoria, and few Talos missions, and was thinking about what direction to take her, as I already had softcapped def (when using storm kick) even just using common IOs. Then I saw you link this in Bill Z's scaling damage res thread. After my head stopped swimming I thought, damn, I've already taken boxing, tough and cobra strike, looks like I managed to do everything wrong! Ah well, I still have my free respecs at least, so I might give your way a try.

It's not a matter of "doing it all wrong" per se.  You were just doing what the Conventional Wisdom™ for Tankers recommended for you to do ... presumably without analyzing the alternatives (which, to be fair, takes a LOT of time and effort!).

 

As for respecs, you can also purchase Respec Tokens off the auction house ...

4 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Counterpoint: If you were having fun, you weren't doin it wrong.

Correct.

Just because the build(s) I've provided suit the way that I would want to play doesn't mean they aren't open to alternative interpretation(s) that can better suit how YOU would want to play your Tanker.  I just wanted to provide a sense of the reasons WHY I made the choices that I did so that anyone and everyone else will be able to follow the thinking and decide for themselves how much weight/merit to put behind the decisions I made for my build in case anyone else wants to branch off and do something different as a matter of INFORMED decision making.

 

You don't have to respec to my build EXACTLY, but if you're going to make changes to it it's best to understand the ramifications of making those changes ... and it's easier to do that when you know why I did various things the way I did in the first place, so as to make that cross-comparison easier for you to process and reach conclusions on.

[CaptainLupis]

8 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Counterpoint: If you were having fun, you weren't doin it wrong.

I was being a bit tongue in cheek with the doing it all wrong comment. I really was, however, looking for something to change it up as I had been having extreme end issues before hitting 22, although I had just mitigated a chunk of that with level 25 IOs and some set IOs.  But it's hard not to like a set that can have around 32% def (I think it was) to melee and ranged by level 4! I'm pretty  sure it had around 42% to all by around level 10. Admittedly that was with using storm kick and the 5% def buff from the amplifier. But even so it's still pretty impressive at that level.

[CaptainLupis]

9 hours ago, killigraphy said:

Sounds to me like you're gonna replace a power for heal self ;]

I have SR scrappers, stalkers and brutes (but this is the first tank), plus I had a bunch back on live as well and I think I might have taken aid self on the very first one. Once. Then ditched it for tough and weave instead. I know you are joking here but it's a power I've never really liked for some reason and it's been so long since I last used it I can't even be certain why any more. I suspect it was a combination of animation time, interruptible and still using endurance even when it's been interrupted, but I think there was more to it than that.

Edited June 15, 2020 by CaptainLupis

[CaptainLupis]

5 hours ago, Redlynne said:

It's not a matter of "doing it all wrong" per se.  You were just doing what the Conventional Wisdom™ for Tankers recommended for you to do ... presumably without analyzing the alternatives (which, to be fair, takes a LOT of time and effort!).

 

As for respecs, you can also purchase Respec Tokens off the auction house ...

As I said in my reply to Bill I wasn't really being serious about doing it wrong. To be honest I rarely, if ever, pre plan builds and I'm even less likely to look at other people's builds. When levelling (unless it is power sets I am already very familiar with) I tend to take what sounds good and give it a whirl, then try to find sets to get the best out the ones I like, for both the power and the overall build. It was just a coincidence I happened to be thinking about where to go next with it when I was reading Bill's post about scaling damage res and saw your post linking your build and thought why not check it out. It certainly has food for thought, even if I am unlikely to follow it exactly.

[Gobbledigook]

Something i came up with from your builds.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Secondary Power Set: Martial Arts
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(9), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(9), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), LucoftheG-Def(31), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(31)
Level 1: Thunder Kick -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A)
Level 2: Storm Kick -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(7)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(27), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(29), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), LucoftheG-Def(33), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(33)
Level 6: Mystic Flight -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 8: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Cobra Strike -- SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(11), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(50)
Level 12: Evasion -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(13), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(13), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), LucoftheG-Def(34), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(34)
Level 14: Dodge -- Ksm-ToHit+(A)
Level 16: Agile -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(19), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(34)
Level 18: Lucky -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(19), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(37)
Level 20: Dragon's Tail -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(21), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Arm-Acc/Rchg(23), Arm-Dam%(25), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(25)
Level 22: Warrior's Provocation -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 24: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 28: Focus Chi -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Tough -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(43), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), TtnCtn-ResDam(46)
Level 32: Weave -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(37), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(37), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 35: Crippling Axe Kick -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(36), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Hct-Acc/Rchg(36), Hct-Dam%(48), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 38: Eagles Claw -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(40), TchofDth-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Spirit Ward -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(42), Prv-Heal/Rchg(42), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(42), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(43), Prv-Absorb%(43)
Level 44: Rune of Protection -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(45), UnbGrd-Max HP%(45), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(46), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- Rct-ResDam%(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- IntRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), RgnTss-Regen+(7), Mrc-Rcvry+(17), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(27)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(15), PrfShf-End%(17), PwrTrns-+Heal(21)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
------------

 

 

Staff Version below.

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1596&c=736&a=1472&f=HEX&dc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

 

A bit overkill on some of the defences though and missed Gaussians in the build ups.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[81147]

I really like the build. It's great to see someone spending so much time on the nitty gritty of it.

However, PLEASE can you post without all the gigantic GIFs. They're incredibly distracting and make it hard to read the build.

[killigraphy]

20 hours ago, CaptainLupis said:

I have SR scrappers, stalkers and brutes (but this is the first tank), plus I had a bunch back on live as well and I think I might have taken aid self on the very first one. Once. Then ditched it for tough and weave instead. I know you are joking here but it's a power I've never really liked for some reason and it's been so long since I last used it I can't even be certain why any more. I suspect it was a combination of animation time, interruptible and still using endurance even when it's been interrupted, but I think there was more to it than that.

 

Seems to me like the Experimentation pool would  be better,  Experimental Injection, sounds like it would be enough...in theory. Plus you don't  have to get a prerequisite power.

[killigraphy]

On 6/14/2020 at 11:33 PM, Redlynne said:

Considering that I've been playing Martial Arts since Issue 2 ... I'm probably (quite!) biased in thinking that the animations for Martial Arts look fine (even Crippling Axe Kick and Eagle's Claw).

 

Yeah both CAK and EC are fine and over the top enough to want to use repeatedly.....but Storm kick looks goofy, especially compared to MC's version....

 

Had a MA scrapper since release, I don't let bias cloud what I think looks nice. MC's Storm Kick is far  more fluid and looks less floaty/cringe....now its no Kinetic melee but its still not aesthetically   pleasing to me.

[CaptainLupis]

1 hour ago, killigraphy said:

 

Seems to me like the Experimentation pool would  be better,  Experimental Injection, sounds like it would be enough...in theory. Plus you don't  have to get a prerequisite power.

Are you meaning as a mule for set bonuses? As far as I am aware the power itself can only be used on others, and taking a pool just to get one power you can't even use on yourself seems a bit wasteful.

[CaptainLupis]

Got my SR/MA to 31, running at +3x8 solo and decided to do a bit of stress testing. Scroll of Tielekku arc so mainly Banished Panthon, but the last mission also had CoT and warriors, meaning I was able to mix it up a bit, aggroing different spawns at the same time. It looks like where I am just now my smash/lethal res maxes out when down to around 14% health. My health kind of bounced around between that an 30% for a fair amount of time, but never really went lower as far as I could tell.

 

My build is very similar to your build here: horn tooting, Redlynne, at the same level, except I have CJ and SJ instead of mystic flight and spirit ward and isn't as fully slotted. I have maneuvers but frankly I don't have the end to run it at this point (which is also why I am going +3 instead of +4), so it just has the PvP +res unique in it and is turned off.

 

I have to say it's a lot of fun, even though it isn't the best damage going and I still have some serious end issues when fights get drawn out (thanks BP and CoT witth your -tohit!).

 

I was saying to a couple of friends in game that it kind of reminds me of old school regen, back when it had the toggle instant heal, in that your health bar is yo-yoing up and down constantly, but you never really feel like you are in any great danger of faceplanting. And I expect it will only get stronger.

 

It's definitely a set worth checking out, and you won't really go wrong if you take Redlynne's build as a template, though there is definitely room for tweaking it to your own style.

 

[Redlynne]

9 hours ago, CaptainLupis said:

And I expect it will only get stronger.

Super Reflexes matures LATE ... as in my experience with Super Reflexes is that the powerset matures all the way to 50.  It doesn't peak early and then plateau, it just keeps getting stronger and stronger.

9 hours ago, CaptainLupis said:

I have maneuvers but frankly I don't have the end to run it at this point

That's a symptom of needing more slots ... meaning that you need to keep adding levels (and therefore slots) to your build.  Once you get to 40+ it's all about "filling out" as well as "rounding out" the build and putting the capstones on everything and you'll be able to FEEL the changes as it all starts coming together and you get REALLY powerful with full slotting in all of your powers.  I know that my long march to 50 as an MA/SR Scrapper on Virtue felt like my character didn't even start(!) to mature into her true strength until Levels 40+ ... mainly because I slotted up defenses first and left the slotting for the attacks for the 40+ stretch when I was playing back then, so the leaps and bounds improvements were incredibly noticeable.  Now with set bonuses in the mix, a lot of the "finishing" of sets and builds still happens in the 40+ stretch and your build won't feel "complete" until you get to 50 and have EVERYTHING slotted up the way you want them to be.

 

Moral of the story is to stick with it.  It's blood, sweat and tears on the way up to 50 ... but once you're there, it's all gravy.

[tripthicket]

Delurking at a very late stage to ask, freely admitting I may well have missed it in the many very informative yet very lengthy posts, what Incarnate decisions @Redlynne or anyone else might have made?

 

Edited to add: Uhr, I see now that Redlynne hasn't been on the forums for nearly a year. Did she move to the Homecoming Discord, I wonder, or simply move on? (runs to check)

Edited July 5, 2021 by tripthicket

[PLVRIZR]

On 6/14/2020 at 10:33 PM, Redlynne said:

Considering that I've been playing Martial Arts since Issue 2 ... I'm probably (quite!) biased in thinking that the animations for Martial Arts look fine (even Crippling Axe Kick and Eagle's Claw).

 

 

Sidebar:

 

There is nothing, I repeat NOTHING more amusing that a stone tanker, in granite armor, performing the MA kicks.  The animations are hilarious.  I never built one, but have played with a few and it is the most ridiculous (in a good way) thing, I think, that can be seen in the game.

[Warboss]

On 7/6/2021 at 11:08 AM, PLVRIZR said:

There is nothing, I repeat NOTHING more amusing that a stone tanker, in granite armor, performing the MA kicks. 

 

I couldn't agree more, in fact, that is exactly why I rolled my Stone/MAer. It's slower than heck to take anything down... but funnier than heck to watch in the process.