Best damaging combo for MMs

[killerdestiny]

Heyo. In my quest to have the meta combos on every AT I have come on MM next. 

 

Yes I am a power gamer. Thats how I get my kicks. Anyway, whats the highest damage combo post IOs and incarnates for MM?

 

Thanks!

 

EDIT: Did some research. How does everyone feel about thugs/time, bots/time, thugs/storm, nature/kin

 

I love doing procs and just min/maxing

Edited May 5, 2020 by killerdestiny

[rmancu]

I would add Thugs/Dark to the list as well.

[Seigmoraig]

If you love e-peening dps-metering on Pylons /Storm will get you the furthest up the ladder. /Storm does a bunch of damage on it's own but it's mostly from the little clouds zapping single targets. It has the tornado too but it has a habit of wandering off when there are multiple targets to choose from. The Ice rain power is pretty nice for debuffing and Gale slotted with a knockdown is really fun to use. With all these offensive skills though come a severe lack in healing and buffing, be prepared to feed your pets a lot of inspirations since you only have Steamy Mist for buffs and a single target heal.

 

Time and Kin on the other hand are all about making your pets do the dirty work and keeping them alive. Kin has the biggest damage buff in the game, Fulcrum Shift and a bunch of other nice buffs. Time is an all round great secondary that checks all the boxes, buffs, healing, debuffs and control.

 

Personally I am having a grand old time playing with my Thugs/Elec. Electric Affinity has a good damage buff (22-25% IIRC) some great healing ability from 2 skills, a heal and an absorb. It also has a +end buff that really helps because Thugs actually do run out of Endurance. And lastly FARADAY CAGE, the reason why you roll /elec, full on status protection and +res for everyone standing in the radius. It's the only support set to offer a near complete status protection package (only missing confuse I think).

 

So really it boils down to:

Do you want your secondary to do all the dirty work with your pets being bodyguard meatshields? /Storm (Storm IMHO is probably best suited to a controller that can keep everything immobilized/held in your kill zone)
If not then Kin, Time and to a lesser extent /EA (because I like it most personally) are the way to go

Edited May 5, 2020 by Seigmoraig

[Ironscarlet]

Imo  unlike other classes MM don't have a strong meta like other classes because of the wide variety of playstyle a MM can do.  

 

If I could rank the most damaging MM combo 1-5 this  is how I would go.

 

1.Thug/storm

2. Demon/storm

3. Thug or Demon/ kinda Anything

4. Specialty builds such as Ninja/time, beast/kin.

5. Everything else

 

In theory Ninja/kin or Ninja/storm should be top but in practice  you will never keep them all alive regularly equalling loss of dps. I believe that could be said for most content. Thug/ storm is the most damage on a pylon but I play a thug/ea because in practise my /ea can carry a team where storm can out damage my /ea. Storm has no saftey net no CC protection and a ST heal so if you get caught off guard there not as much opportunity to save yourself/team. That why I like Electric Affinity I have option to save myself,pets, and team can even buff/heal a whole league.

 

So if your look for highest damge per sec in game Thug/Storm but you don't see them every where because MM  playstyle are all very different.

 

So if you want to change the question from "what the most damaging MM?" To " what is the strongest MM?" That could change everything. 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Ironscarlet

[killerdestiny]

7 hours ago, Ironscarlet said:

Imo  unlike other classes MM don't have a strong meta like other classes because of the wide variety of playstyle a MM can do.  

 

If I could rank the most damaging MM combo 1-5 this  is how I would go.

 

1.Thug/storm

2. Demon/storm

3. Thug or Demon/ kinda Anything

4. Specialty builds such as Ninja/time, beast/kin.

5. Everything else

 

In theory Ninja/kin or Ninja/storm should be top but in practice  you will never keep them all alive regularly equalling loss of dps. I believe that could be said for most content. Thug/ storm is the most damage on a pylon but I play a thug/ea because in practise my /ea can carry a team where storm can out damage my /ea. Storm has no saftey net no CC protection and a ST heal so if you get caught off guard there not as much opportunity to save yourself/team. That why I like Electric Affinity I have option to save myself,pets, and team can even buff/heal a whole league.

 

So if your look for highest damge per sec in game Thug/Storm but you don't see them every where because MM  playstyle are all very different.

 

So if you want to change the question from "what the most damaging MM?" To " what is the strongest MM?" That could change everything. 

i love all the answers so far. Thanks everyone! Out of curiosity what would be the answer to the question: What is the strongest MM?

[Pherdnut]

30 minutes ago, killerdestiny said:

i love all the answers so far. Thanks everyone! Out of curiosity what would be the answer to the question: What is the strongest MM?

Demons / Miasma makes a pretty good argument. Smorgasbord of damage types. Lots of sources of slow. Complimentary Damage resist reduction powers. Stupid-powerful group heal/enemy-nerf combo power. Definitely one of my strongest and most-vesatile soloers.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Pherdnut

[BGSacho]

Ignoring /Storm, which is a playstyle on its own, you want the following things to maximize MM dps:

1. Durable pets, because resummoning kills your dps. The most durable pets are thugs(high def), beasts(res and def), demons(high res). Secondaries like Time, Traps, Cold provide def, whereas Thermal, Sonic, Nature provide res.
2. Extra pets - they provide more DPS and easier slotting. Thugs, Necro and Demons all have extra pets.
3. Pets with lots of procs - luckily, most of the primaries can socket procs. Thugs, Necro, Beasts, Mercs, Ninjas can all slot lots of procs

4. Good personal attacks that can slot 4-5 procs(preferrably including purple procs). Demons are the best here by far, but the other primaries can utilize powers like Arcane Bolt, Cross Punch, epic powers, etc. MMs usually have a lot of sustains so you need some way to manage the endurance drain of spamming the attacks.
5. Lots of -res - the main damage scaler for MM. Most of the good MM secondaries provide it, but you need to also look for possibilities to slot -res procs into your rotation - Achilles Heel, Annihiliation, Fury of the Gladiator. Thugs and Mercs have -def which gives you easy access to Achilles Heel. Some of the secondaries have -def as well(e.g. /Time). AoE powers are an easy source of Annihiliation.
6. Lots of -regen - even with all the aforementioned tricks, MMs don't produce the sheer raw DPS vs +4 mobs that other classes can, due to the purple patch. Stacking -regen can even the playing field. Traps, Cold, Thermal, Dark all have high amounts of -Regen, and Bots also sport a ton.

Mixing and matching these together, I come up with my favourite combos. I think they can be called "the strongest"  in the sense that they try to maximize all the main strengths of MM.

Thugs/Time
+ great defense, heals
+ extra endurance recovery for personal attacks
+ very high damage, including high aoe thanks to enforcers
+ easy access to achilles heel, good -res power
= dual wield is a decent personal attack(3 procs and FF)
- very low amounts of -regen

Demons/Dark
+ great debuffs, heals
+ extra -res from primary
+ Lash and Crack Whip are the best primary attacks MM has access to - they have great damage, reasonable endurance cost, can slot tons of procs and have even extra -res.
+ great access to -regen - stackable -regen from twilight grasp + Howling Twilight. Pushed to the max can reach about a consistent -500% regen.
= reasonably tanky pets

- endurance costs
- debuffs are a softer form of protection than straight up defense

Demons/Thermal
+ Capped 90% resistance on pets, heals
+ Lash and Crack Whip
+ High -regen(-500%)
= Thermal doesn't provide any personal defense
- Difficult slotting due to multiple powers not accepting sets

I think there must be some way to utilize Necro, but I haven't been satisfied with any of the builds I tried yet. Traps are also a decent secondary, having defense and -regen, but they don't have heals and trip mine/detonator are underwhelming. Cold provides strong pet defenses, but usually not enough to softcap on their own, and has good -regen and -res, but no heals.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by BGSacho

[Seigmoraig]

31 minutes ago, killerdestiny said:

i love all the answers so far. Thanks everyone! Out of curiosity what would be the answer to the question: What is the strongest MM?

Thugs and Demons in my book are top of the list for best. Both have tons of slotting options and they also both have a 4th pet power that can serve to frankenslot all the uninteresting aura powers that are wasted on the primary pets (Hell on Earth and Gang War). Bots and Beasts and Necros next in second tier. Ninja and Mercs in the trash tier
Dark Miasma and Time Manipulation are my picks for the best secondaries.

[Coyote]

18 hours ago, killerdestiny said:

i love all the answers so far. Thanks everyone! Out of curiosity what would be the answer to the question: What is the strongest MM?

 

Thugs or Demons primary.

Dark, Time, or Thermal secondary (Thermal with Demons, not sure it's so good for Thugs).

Also Demons/Storm, although Storm is such a different style that it's hard to compare directly with the others. But adding the -Res from Demon attacks to the direct damage from Storm's powers is nuts damage, enough to make up for the weaker defenses.

[Crysis]

If you go purely by the DPS testing against Pylons, Thugs/Storm with heavy proc’s for FF +Recharge is likely the top raw damage output king.  Even with long Recharge, using Burnout for Double Ganga War adds a bunch.  I’ll say in actual PVE I didn’t see the same kind of DPS but it’s still pretty obscene levels of damage output.

 

And while others have noted that your heal from /Storm is lackluster, I didn’t even bother taking it or Hurricane post lvl 32....kill stuff faster is the strength of this build not healing.

 

Demon/Storm is sturdier but not quite as awe inspiring as filling a room with something like 20 henchmen at once.  Impressive output though.

 

BOTH will have you needing serious END help via Cardiac, Ageless or even both.  
 

Otherwise I’d say Thugs or Demon coupled with /Time.  Time gives you great DEF, great Heal, great -TOHIt for even safer Tankerminding and lots of Recharge.  Bots/Time has always been my favorite blend of great damage, sturdy henchmen and great overall effectiveness.

 

[Ironscarlet]

22 hours ago, killerdestiny said:

i love all the answers so far. Thanks everyone! Out of curiosity what would be the answer to the question: What is the strongest MM?

 

The strongest MM people will debate. What it really come down to is what are you trying to achieve.  I really thought and wrote erased wrote erased and really I could not come up with one answer. Demon and Thugs are great for the extra pet slotting which gives them a advantage but you could do /dark  for other primary get fluffy pet and mule it up. Everyone has a opinion what's the strongest and most holes can be fixed with incarnates.  What I would say is cross your T and dot you I's. What does that mean?

 

Focus  on

1. Aoe Heal (/seconday without can be filled with destiny)

2. CC protection (/secondary without can be filled with destiny)

3. Pet mule (primary without can be filled with dark secondary)

4. -Regeneration (can cheat/improvise with  envenom dagger temp power or -reg lore pets).

 

 

++++ Buff and debuffs are a plus.

 

1 and 2 up top are very important in my eyes so if you choose a secondary without both that's when things get rough because you cant fill both holes with one incarnate. Below are 5 combos all are super strong but playstyle and what your trying to achieve is what its going to come down to.

 

1.Thug/Traps (Great against AV and GM can solo them, Caps def for pets and MM.  No Heal have to add medic pool and or Destiny. Slow set up not great for speed teams) 

 

2. Thug/Time ( Has extra def to cap. Has aoe heals, but very important for Thugs has + recharge to with Gangwars. Even has debuff what it lacks is CC protection that can be made up with Destiny, ok against AV and GM nothing special really shines in tougher group content) 

 

3. Demon/Thermal (Bread and butter. Cap resistance. Premo GM and AV killer. Has everything you need for all content except crowd controls which destiny fixes, can run fast. Weakness and strength is its resistance armor.  While def pets don't get touched. Resistant pets feel everything even cap at 90% a lot of little sliver/debuffs needles can take your team down.

 

4. Demon/Dark( Has everything, 3 pet healers 4 including u, No CC except for destiny.  Could be 3 its a wash between them. Has everything to kill GM or AV. No res shield= Less resistance more heals is the trade off

 

5. Thug/EA ( Force multiplier, can Heal and shield whole leagues and multiple gang wars, 250%+ rech , Best crowd control protection. Can run threw most content very fast, Not bad but not the best against AV and GM do to lack of debuffs which is the reason it is 5 and not higher)

 

2 more I will mention that could be thrown in the mix Thug/Dark and Ninja/Time.

 

Are there other great combos? Yes mostly anything with /thermal or /dark can be put in the good category. You can also say for many different combos. This is just my suggestions for strongest.

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Ironscarlet

[TheSpiritFox]

22 hours ago, killerdestiny said:

i love all the answers so far. Thanks everyone! Out of curiosity what would be the answer to the question: What is the strongest MM?

Strongest MM? 

 

Thugs/Time or Demons/Nature. By strong, I am assuming "Tanky" and by "Tanky" I am assuming "How nuts does this get with a full no expense spared IO build" 

 

Also no expense spared for an MM IO build generally costs about half as much as building a brute or blaster or less. 

 

Demons/Nature built right has perma buffs. You stack a little defense on them with maneuvers and with the pet defense IOs and such and then just jack their resistance up as high as you can get it. Between the absorb and the absolutely ridiculous amount of aoe healing that /nature is capable of producing, and the resists demons have and nature gives which slow down incoming damage generally enough that you can outheal it even on minions to say nothing of the T2 and T3 pets, my pets are tanky AS HELL. That said, I am not and if I get aggro away from my pets somehow, it can cascade fail real quick if I get mezzed. 

 

But you know, that's why I built to have fly and super speed with celerity stealth IO going 100% of the time so that I can zoom around in the air out of mez range using my range extended /nature heal to invisibly sustain my demons from up in the rafters if need be. 

 

Thugs/time on the other hand is simultaneously one of the toughest masterminds to kill and one of the most effective at doing clouds of AOE damage while also being a pretty laid back and not super "Busy" set. The only real weakness is mez, and being tough enough to allow the pets to lead into aggro and take the alpha directly often clears you of that initial wave of alpha mez that can actually kill you if it lands at the wrong moment. Or you know bind break free macros to all of your power executions and wander around with a tray full of them at all times and feel like a demigod. It debuffs, it buffs, the vast majority of it's powers are fire and forget, with only one toggle, a point and click debuff, a few fire and forget aoe team and self buffs, a damage/recovery/regen buff that's pretty solid and worth throwing on your T3 or a team mate when it's up. Also it's 2 minutes long and you can get the timer down to like 25 seconds so you can buff like 4 pets continuously without being perfect on timings or you can buff your T3 pet and a few team mates continuously like a good support lol. Oh and that buff doubles healing from you on the target. You can dump a fair amount of healing on a team mate in a short time, or a pet, if you buff them first and chrono shift comes up. 

 

Thugs time has turned into my main. There is literally no content in the game that it can't manage to figure out, even if some level of strategy is involved, and it can often walk face first into engagements that kill 2 or 3 pets and also 2 or  3 teammates but you resummon and your position throughout feels pretty stable, losing pets is predictable through your heals and you just resummon and continue, it's not a cascade but just one pet taking a bit more than he can handle in a short time. Once incarnates come into play, alpha for more damage and barrier/support for pet protection? It would probably take me fucking forever but I could solo the Maria AV arc on +4x8. You put out *alot* of damage but over time it's still not like TW/Bio scrapper numbers. It's alot harder to keep a group of pets doing their ideal DPS against a large group of high level enemies. But at the same time you can chew a boss down pretty well, especially once it's debuffed and pretty close to helpless. Buy envenomed dagger for AVs. Just do it. 

 

Oh. Both of these builds take bonfire. Nature enjoys it more and depends on it less. Time needs it to help with the alpha, but once past the alpha time shreds through enemies faster than nature does and the slows really help avoid scatter, which nature does if you get in melee range which you're vulnerable in and can't heal as well from. Time is much more damage proc friendly and much better at soft control as a set. 

 

The thing that makes these two get my vote for "Strongest" is that both of them have alot of layers defending against incoming aggression. Like I kinda feel like demons/nature feels like playing a /bio brute sometimes. You're thinking about healing alot and you've got some good resistances and some kinda defense. You absorb and heal during the alpha to break it up alot. Take some of the damage on your health then absorb and take the rest on your shield while you regen the lost health. Certain debuffs or a mez getting through can fuck you up bad. Losing your endurance entirely can fuck you up bad. 

 

Thugs/Time on the other hand feels like playing a rad/dark brute. You've got a good bit of AOE, a good bit of CC, it's not always consistent in a fight but it's very consistent over time. You just kinda mow through everything. You have heals if something can hurt you. Not everything can. Once in a while something threatens to kill you. After you get incarnates, you have to look to find things that are remotely capable of killing you. Even endurance drain doesn't really matter that much. Losing your aoe debuff hurts. Everything else is fire and forget. Whatever's already in play, distortion field, farsight, chrono shift. The horse is gone. Endurance drain shut the barn door. 

 

Also the bit of up front heal and then a continuous heal over time for the same amount or more that is time's heal is really, really good for MMs. Less overhealing and more continuous protection of your pets for minions with significantly less than most player's health. Nature's heals work alot of the same way and pets just love aoe heals over time that keep them topped off. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by TheSpiritFox

[Crysis]

By the way, there was a time back on Live when Mez effects were build breaking.  There’s been a lot of changes with Homecoming that makes this less (not entirely NOT...but LESS) of an issue.  Sorcery Pool, for example, has a fast recharging self buff that acts as a break free AND can bump up your +RES to S/L significantly.  I have it on my Thugs/Time and when I jump into the spawn with Times Juncture running (big -TOHIT is equivalent to more +DEF for me and my henchmen), I take the alpha and it -usually- whiffs.  But even when it doesn’t, Sorcery pool gets me right back into the game.

 

Clarion on auto-fire also works, obviously, but for leveling purposes, Sorcery is an option we didn’t used to have.  It’s been pretty game changing for me.

[Dixa]

absolute highest damage is going to be either thugs/storm or thugs/kin IF you can cap out fulcrum shift.  of those two, thugs/storm is more likely to survive a 4/8

 

bots is NOT a high damage set. don't fall for that trap, especially post IO's. the highest damage mm primaries are those that have their damage entirely in their t2 and t3 pets. bots it's in their t1 and t3 with t2 providing mostly support. t1 pets take a massive hit to their damage due to level differences. any set that overly relies on their t1 pets for damage is going to be inferior to one that does not when it comes to straight damage unless you could do something like slot 5 damage procs or something. 

 

as for being mezzed - you can buy mez immunity by the hour at the p2w vendor. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Dixa
cause i'm old

[Coyote]

39 minutes ago, Dixa said:

any set that overly relies on their t1 pets for damage is going to be inferior to one that does not when it comes to straight damage unless you could do something like slot 5 damage procs or something.

 

I'm not even sure that would help, since proc damage will also be crushed by the level modifier, unless you meant to slot a lot of damage procs in a higher tier to turn it into a damaging tier (like adding Cloud Senses to Lich). I think Bots can only put 1 damage proc in their T2 to try to squeeze out more damage out of them, and not all of their attacks do knockback. I totally agree, Bots are NOT a high-damage set. Their only "high damage" is against AVs, due to the heavy -Regen out of the Assault Bot... against Bosses they're really slow to grind them down.

[WumpusRat]

10 hours ago, Crysis said:

Sorcery Pool, for example, has a fast recharging self buff that acts as a break free AND can bump up your +RES to S/L significantly.

The idea of calling a power with a 10 minute recharge "fast recharging" just baffles me.

[Seigmoraig]

7 hours ago, WumpusRat said:

The idea of calling a power with a 10 minute recharge "fast recharging" just baffles me.

If you have perma hasten and you slot Rune of Protection with 2x +5 recharge IOs you can get it down to 170sec CD, with it's own 30 sec duration that 140 sec CD. That should be enough to have it up whenever you need it

Edited May 7, 2020 by Seigmoraig

[tidge]

15 hours ago, Coyote said:

 

I'm not even sure that would help, since proc damage will also be crushed by the level modifier, unless you meant to slot a lot of damage procs in a higher tier to turn it into a damaging tier (like adding Cloud Senses to Lich). I think Bots can only put 1 damage proc in their T2 to try to squeeze out more damage out of them, and not all of their attacks do knockback. I totally agree, Bots are NOT a high-damage set. Their only "high damage" is against AVs, due to the heavy -Regen out of the Assault Bot... against Bosses they're really slow to grind them down.

I also agree that the Bots are not high damage.  The Knockback is also a PITA, but burning a slot on a Sudden Acceleration KB-KD helps A LOT, as it will at least keep the targets more-or-less in place. The T2 Protector Bots burn a lot of time/endurance on applying bubbles rather than attacking.

 

I also agree that generally proc-slotting T1 is a losing proposition. The only 'proc' IO that I consider putting in the T1 (or on more basic non-MM recharge pets) are:

• Overwhelming Force: Damage/KB->KD (for T1 that don't do Knockback) as it adds a level of control
• Souldbound Allegiance %Build Up just to try to keep them even with mobs that con higher than them

I suppose there may be other 'effects' that bring value, but I generally prefer an effect as opposed to trying for a little more damage. It is entirely possible that using the T1 to mule defense/resist IOs (freeing slots on the T2 and T3) will be the best use of those T1 slots for any given build.

[tidge]

7 hours ago, WumpusRat said:

The idea of calling a power with a 10 minute recharge "fast recharging" just baffles me.

 

19 minutes ago, Seigmoraig said:

If you have perma hasten and you slot Rune of Protection with 2x +5 recharge IOs you can get it down to 170sec CD, with it's own 30 sec duration that 140 sec CD. That's more than enough to have it up whenever you need it

 

I have Rune of Protection (on a Blaster) and there is slightly more involved with this power than just casually suggesting it as a remedy for mez protection:

• As mentioned, it has a ridiculously long cooldown time. Yes, it is possible with enough Global Recharge to lower the cooldown, but that is a big investment in other power (and slot) choices. If you rely on Hasten and Rune of Protection, that is 2 of 4 Power Pool choices.
• Click Mez protection with a cooldown greater than 70 seconds is probably also relying on a high-Defense build.
• Rune of Protection requires 2 other power picks from the Sorcery pool (I'm not sure if there is a minimum level requirement on Homecoming).  I don't flinch about taking a travel power early in a build (here, Mystic Flight), but it is a rare build that I try to squeeze 3 power choices from a single power pool before level  24. Keep in mind that there is an explicit need to have chosen Hasten as well. On my Blaster with Rune of Protection, I happened to take Mystic Flight (lvl 4) -> Arcane Bolt (lvl 12, holding a 10% Global recharge set) -> Rune of Protection (lvl 41). I suppose I could have taken it earlier in the build and burned more slots to make it the mule for Resist IO Globals, but that would have delayed the Fighting pool (which is providing the Defense boosts of the second bullet above).

All these things direct consideration of choosing Rune of Protection to be a completely secondary choice (for builds with certain characteristics) as opposed to being a primary choice. Rune of Protection works well enough for my Blaster, but it came so late in the build and relies on IO boosts and Global Recharge bonuses that only come into their own for a level 50 character.

 

It was a good suggestion about binding keys to combine inspirations into Break Free (et al.) inspirations works as it works across all levels for all toons (obviously better for higher levels with more inspiration slots) and doesn't rely on particular power choices.

[Crysis]

9 hours ago, WumpusRat said:

The idea of calling a power with a 10 minute recharge "fast recharging" just baffles me.

I don't even slot it for Recharge, but my builds are typically at 150%-175% native Recharge minus any FF +RECH procs or Ageless.  With frankenslotting some Res/Recharge IO's, it's on a 4m45s timer.  With build recharge though, it's up for 1m30s, down for 1m15sec before ready to pop again at 2m45s mark. 

 

I'd consider a 1m15sec cooldown (net) to be a pretty fair trade given that for me it's +23% RES to just about everything plus Mag 10 hold protection.  It's of fantastic utility to a MM.  And obtaining 150-175% recharge isn't hard to do at all.  Hasten plus Ageless alone will get you like 80-85% +RECH.  

 

[Crysis]

2 hours ago, Seigmoraig said:

If you have perma hasten and you slot Rune of Protection with 2x +5 recharge IOs you can get it down to 170sec CD, with it's own 30 sec duration that 140 sec CD. That should be enough to have it up whenever you need it

It's 1m30s duration, not 30 sec duration.

 

1 hour ago, tidge said:

 

 

I have Rune of Protection (on a Blaster) and there is slightly more involved with this power than just casually suggesting it as a remedy for mez protection:

• As mentioned, it has a ridiculously long cooldown time. Yes, it is possible with enough Global Recharge to lower the cooldown, but that is a big investment in other power (and slot) choices. If you rely on Hasten and Rune of Protection, that is 2 of 4 Power Pool choices.
• Click Mez protection with a cooldown greater than 70 seconds is probably also relying on a high-Defense build.
• Rune of Protection requires 2 other power picks from the Sorcery pool (I'm not sure if there is a minimum level requirement on Homecoming).  I don't flinch about taking a travel power early in a build (here, Mystic Flight), but it is a rare build that I try to squeeze 3 power choices from a single power pool before level  24. Keep in mind that there is an explicit need to have chosen Hasten as well. On my Blaster with Rune of Protection, I happened to take Mystic Flight (lvl 4) -> Arcane Bolt (lvl 12, holding a 10% Global recharge set) -> Rune of Protection (lvl 41). I suppose I could have taken it earlier in the build and burned more slots to make it the mule for Resist IO Globals, but that would have delayed the Fighting pool (which is providing the Defense boosts of the second bullet above).

All these things direct consideration of choosing Rune of Protection to be a completely secondary choice (for builds with certain characteristics) as opposed to being a primary choice. Rune of Protection works well enough for my Blaster, but it came so late in the build and relies on IO boosts and Global Recharge bonuses that only come into their own for a level 50 character.

 

It was a good suggestion about binding keys to combine inspirations into Break Free (et al.) inspirations works as it works across all levels for all toons (obviously better for higher levels with more inspiration slots) and doesn't rely on particular power choices.

All fair points, but as shown above, it's not a high slot investment.  I can actually accomplish almost the same thing with just 3 Aegis in there.

 

And yes, it does rely on a High Defense build, but that's what I articulated further up in the thread.  A Bots/Time build is, by almost default, a "high DEF build" as it's very easy to softcap defenses thanks to the Protector Bot bubbles.

 

However, for total Sorcery Pool investment....3 power picks and 2 extra slots for Rune tops.  Seems pretty efficient to me versus taking another MM attack power for the most part.  I've actually found Arcane Bolt does more damage than the Pulse Rifle attack.

 

I may have a different POV if we were discussing Blasters....but this is a thread discussing MM's and "most damaging combo's."

 

That said, I've got very similar builds for a couple of DP Blasters.  Since you can easily proc DP out for high recharge, again...I'd still say it works.  Harder to do though with a Blaster since you really should be slotting for damage and, as you've pointed out, I need slots for native DEF.  That's not the same thing for a Bots MasterMind, however.

 

Synergy people!  It's all about the Synergy.  If your native powerset (Bots/Time in my example) provides for +DEF and +RECH...soar with your strengths and choose powers that augment what you got versus trying to strive for what you don't.  If you Tankermind (even without Provoke, as I do, because again...Times Juncture is massive aggro pull and -TOHIT both), jump in with both feet, take the alpha (+DEF and it usually whiffs) and Rune of Protection either as a preventative measure or a reactive measure if you happen to get stung in the process.

 

Not to totally derail this thread but....case in point....here's a high recharge (187%-ish) DP/Time Blaster with softcapped S/L DEF and Rune of Protection as an "oh crap" button both.  Pretty much exact same cooldown times as I have on my MM.  DP also benefits from a short +DEF M/R/AOE for Hail of Bullets activation so when I'm in the thick of a spawn, I'm at 41% Melee DEF for that duration until I'm out again.  Basically, I can avoid taking Clarion on this Blaster altogether and for Hybrid go Melee for being able to cycle Rune and that together.

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Muzzle Velocity: Level 50 Science Blaster
Primary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Secondary Power Set: Temporal Manipulation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Pistols -- SprDfnBrr-Rchg/+Status Protect(A), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg(3), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), AchHee-ResDeb%(46)
Level 1: Time Wall -- EnfOpr-Acc/Rchg(A), EnfOpr-Immob/Rng(3), EnfOpr-Acc/Immob/Rchg(11), EnfOpr-Acc/Immob(25)
Level 2: Aging Touch -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(13), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Dam%(46)
Level 4: Time Stop -- UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg(A), UnbCns-EndRdx/Hold(7)
Level 6: Swap Ammo 
Level 8: Bullet Rain -- SprBlsWrt-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprBlsWrt-Rchg/Dmg%(39), Ann-ResDeb%(48)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Chronos -- RctRtc-ToHit(A), RctRtc-ToHit/Rchg(13), GssSynFr--Build%(17), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 14: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 16: End of Time -- SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(40)
Level 18: Executioner's Shot -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Apc-Acc/Rchg(21), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Apc-Dam%(40)
Level 20: Temporal Healing -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(21), Prv-Heal/Rchg(23), PrfShf-EndMod(36), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(40), PrfShf-End%(50)
Level 22: Mystic Flight -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel(23)
Level 24: Spirit Ward -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 26: Piercing Rounds -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(27), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(37), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Ann-ResDeb%(50)
Level 28: Rune of Protection -- Ags-Psi/Status(A), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(29), Ags-ResDam(29)
Level 30: Boxing -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(31), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(31), KntCmb-Knock%(37)
Level 32: Hail of Bullets -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(33), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(33), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Obl-%Dam(50)
Level 35: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(36), LucoftheG-Def(36)
Level 38: Time Lord -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(42), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(42), Rct-ResDam%(42), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(43)
Level 44: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(45), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), UnbGrd-Max HP%(45), GldArm-3defTpProc(46)
Level 47: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(48)
Level 49: Burnout -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- IntRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Prv-Absorb%(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(7), PrfShf-End%(15)
Level 6: Chemical Ammunition 
Level 6: Cryo Ammunition 
Level 6: Incendiary Ammunition 
Level 0: Born In Battle 
Level 0: High Pain Threshold 
Level 0: Invader 
Level 0: Marshal 
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Longbow Radial Superior Ally 
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment 
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany 
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
------------

 

SLIGHT EDIT: OK so I used an extra slot on Mystic Flight also, but that's for the +1.25% DEF boost to Ranged also so....I think fair slotting for a Blaster.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Crysis

[tidge]

24 minutes ago, Crysis said:

However, for total Sorcery Pool investment....3 power picks and 2 extra slots for Rune tops.  Seems pretty efficient to me versus taking another MM attack power for the most part.  I've actually found Arcane Bolt does more damage than the Pulse Rifle attack.

 

I may have a different POV if we were discussing Blasters....but this is a thread discussing MM's and "most damaging combo's."

Masterminds certainly have more freedom to dip deeper(*1) into power pools than other ATs...

 

...but a Rune of Protection for the Mastermind is almost certainly going to be a secondary concern for any Mastermind whose pets are dealing the "most damage" (either through straight aggression or via Defending/Supremacy/Tankermind). If it is about damage dealing, Enflame might be a better choice from the Sorcery pool.

 

(*1)  Hasten (Speed pool) is a dead end for many ATs, but except for Recharge-intensive pet builds I rarely consider it for Masterminds.

Edited May 7, 2020 by tidge

[Crysis]

14 minutes ago, tidge said:

Masterminds certainly have more freedom to dip deeper(*1) into power pools than other ATs...

 

...but a Rune of Protection for the Mastermind is almost certainly going to be a secondary concern for any Mastermind whose pets are dealing the "most damage" (either through straight aggression or via Defending/Supremacy/Tankermind). If it is about damage dealing, Enflame might be a better choice from the Sorcery pool.

 

(*1)  Hasten (Speed pool) is a dead end for many ATs, but except for Recharge-intensive pet builds I rarely consider it for Masterminds.

We will just have to agree to disagree on Recharge and Hasten.  I know there are those who don't like it in the game at all, let alone agree with it for some kinds of builds.  And we both know for a MM's pets DIRECTLY, Recharge is pretty useless as they have fixed cycle times in their AI.  

 

But for ALL my SECONDARY powerset, buffs/debuffs/heals and ALL my pool powers, +RECH still plays a big role for me -EVEN ON MY MM's.-

 

I respect your right to disagree but I'd say it likely boils down to playstyle preference.  Thugs/Time, Thugs/Storm, Bots/Time, Bots/Storm, Demon/Storm, Bots/Traps and even my ill-fated Beast/Traps (which thematically I REALLY WANTED TO WORK DAMMIT) all made heavy, heavy use of high +RECH builds.  Because the secondaries depended on them to keep the henchmen healthy, angry and doing their thing tearing up my opponents.  Double Gang War?  Yes Please!  Double Lightning Storm and triple Tornado's?  Oh heck yeah!  Double Acid Mortar?  Mmm....crunchy.  For Bots in particular, these kinds of pairings help to offset some of the frankenslotting I need to do to keep stuff in the AOE patches.  

 

For answering the question the OP posted....whats the most DAMAGING MM you can build?  I'd argue very heavily, and with a lot of personal trial and error (and admittedly more error than success along the way), that high +RECH is a fundamental ingredient in laying down the damage.  It keeps your bots healthier (fast heals/debuffs/buffs), or it allows you to do more damage with your secondaries (Particularly with /Storm).  Thus why you are seeing these mentioned in so many of the combo's.  /Storm adds a whole bunch of additional +DMG to your own DPS, plus Steamy Mist adds more +DEF to build on.  The achilles heel of /Storm with high +RECH is the END use, and it's a tough job to stick it out to 50 and Incarnates when you can finally fix that.  But again, there's options even with that thanks to Homecoming's P2W temp +recovery powers, base +recovery powers or even doing a leveling build with Victory Rush from the Leadership pool (which DOES work for leveling I've found...and very well at that with the right usage).  /Time won't give you the same kinds of +DMG to the build, but it can natively provide a lot of +RECH, +DEF, -TOHIT and some other debuffs to slow down the enemy/incoming fire enough to let Bots do their jobs.  The more you throw these out, the faster Bots will kill.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Crysis

[Coyote]

9 minutes ago, Crysis said:

/Time won't give you the same kinds of +DMG to the build, but it can natively provide a lot of +RECH, +DEF, -TOHIT and some other debuffs to slow down the enemy/incoming fire enough to let Bots do their jobs.  The more you throw these out, the faster Bots will kill.

 

Bots kill slowly even in the best of /Times.

Sorry, couldn't -RESIST that.

😛

[tidge]

I only casually mentioned Hasten in this thread because it was called out as being necessary to make Rune of Protection work (for Masterminds)!

 

I'm quite a fan of Hasten myself, and I grok high levels of Global Recharge for long cooldown pool powers (including Rune of Protection and Unrelenting) as well as how useful it is to have a 90 second cooldown power available every 20 seconds. Since Masterminds can skip so many primary powers (their direct assaults), the Power Pools are soo inviting!

 

Writing only for myself, my default considerations for the pools always start:

 

1) Travel (Preferably a flight or SJ, because it is about *ME* goldurnit, and *I* want freedom of movement in the world!)

2) Leadership (for the pets)

3) Fighting (for the Resistance mules, and ultimately Weave for defenses)

4) ????

 

The 4th Pool choice just has so many options (that I have explored):

 

Presence: Essentially a 1-pick wonder for Tankerminds with Provoke (with two great 3rd and 4th choices, if you dare dive deep but Unrelenting also needs Recharge)

Speed: 1-pick wonder for Global recharge with Hasten

Medicine: Targeted healing of Pets/Teammates/Self (and a debuff)

Concealment: For extra defense (Grant Invisibility)

Teleport: Teleport Foe as a long-range taunt (not recommended, but it sort of works)

 

I'm certainly aware of necessary compromise that can be made. I'm one of the last people that would ever try to tell someone that they are playing their AT wrong. I simply wanted to comment on this specific thread, for the specific case of calling out "Rune of Protection" for mez protection, that there are a lot more assumptions that go into making that particular power choice work than I usually see mentioned.