+HP/+Regen Proc Cheat Sheet

[Daytona Ral]

Thanks! I appreciate the help! Came to gaming late in life, post 2010, I think post 2012 so I was over 40. A lot of this stuff is confusing to me. But you've cleared it up nicely, thank you!

 

[xl8]

If you're using a +regen power, let's say obscure sustenance on a sentinel, does this affect the +regen proc power of regenerative tissue slotted in health, or does the +regen stay fixed at the original 25%? Not sure if this 25% figure equates to 25% of original regen rate or some other figure.

[Bopper]

28 minutes ago, xl8 said:

If you're using a +regen power, let's say obscure sustenance on a sentinel, does this affect the +regen proc power of regenerative tissue slotted in health, or does the +regen stay fixed at the original 25%? Not sure if this 25% figure equates to 25% of original regen rate or some other figure.

Added Regeneration is independent. So using a +regen power will not change the contribution that you get from the Regeneration proc. The only thing that changes your performance is a change in your max HP. If your max HP goes up or down, the HP/sec that you get from the Regeneration proc will go up or down with it.

[Arbegla]

@Bopper Can you do some analyzes on how the Panacea Proc interacts in Triage Beacon (and other similar powers like Spirit Tree).

 

Based on my current testing, the Panacea proc has a chance to proc, independently, for each 'target' affected by the Regeneration Aura, and that chance to proc continues at a normal toggle rate (every 10 seconds or so) but with the recharge time of Triage Beacon, you have a really high proc chance. I've noticed that Triage Beacon with Panacea will also proc healing on my pets (and other players) within the aura, even though I'm not sure that is how it is supposed to work.

 

Any chance you can confirm, or at least dive deeper into what is actually going on?

[Bopper]

7 hours ago, Arbegla said:

@Bopper Can you do some analyzes on how the Panacea Proc interacts in Triage Beacon (and other similar powers like Spirit Tree).

 

Based on my current testing, the Panacea proc has a chance to proc, independently, for each 'target' affected by the Regeneration Aura, and that chance to proc continues at a normal toggle rate (every 10 seconds or so) but with the recharge time of Triage Beacon, you have a really high proc chance. I've noticed that Triage Beacon with Panacea will also proc healing on my pets (and other players) within the aura, even though I'm not sure that is how it is supposed to work.

 

Any chance you can confirm, or at least dive deeper into what is actually going on?

I can't confirm as I have not tested it, but I did look up the power info on it. You are correct; Panacea will have a chance to proc on any ally the power affects, so you seeing teammates and pets being beneficiaries makes complete sense.

 

First, a breakdown of the power. It has a 200s base cooldown and when cast it summons a pseudopet. That pseudopet lasts for 90s and has a 40 foot radius. 

 

For the psedudopet, the large radius floors your proc probability to 9.5%. However, you can hit up to 255 targets in that 40 ft radius, so you certainly have enough chances to see it fire on somebody. Plus, it lasts 90s, so you get 9 proc chances with one summon (0s, 10s, 20s, ...80s. You don't get one at 90s because it will die off just before another proc chance). 

 

On top of the pet proc'ing, I suspect summoning the pet will also have a chance to proc on you. This is the part that I would need to test to confirm, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a 90% chance to proc on yourself everytime you summon the pet. 

[UberGuy]

14 hours ago, Arbegla said:

Based on my current testing, the Panacea proc has a chance to proc, independently, for each 'target' affected by the Regeneration Aura, and that chance to proc continues at a normal toggle rate (every 10 seconds or so) but with the recharge time of Triage Beacon, you have a really high proc chance

 

That's not how PPM procs work in effects like this.

 

This is the Triage Beacn pet's regen aura power. PPM code looks at the activation period of the power. A value > 0 on the power is something that only passive/auto and toggle powers have.  In powers with a non-zero activation period, the proc activation chance calculation fully ignores recharge and cast times. It's based instead on the proc (enhancement's own) activation period alone, which is usually 10s. (And the power's area factor, of course.)

 

I'm pretty sure procs like this can activate on you directly when you summon the pet, and that will use the cast and activation time math for PPM chance of happening.

Edited April 15, 2021 by UberGuy

[Glacier Peak]

@Bopper great thread, I've been using it a ton on my Elec/Regen Sentinel trying to maximize every bonus and proc chance. I noticed a few differences between the CoD entry for PT: Chance to Heal Self (henceforth PT:CHS) and the HCWiki and your guide, if you have a chance could you answer my questions below?

 

1. Does PT:CHS use Base HP or Max HP? (I recognize you indicate it uses Base HP in your guide, just double checking)

 

2. Can the effect be stacked with itself using different powers that aren't auto powers? (i.e., I use Lightning Bolt and assuming proc activates, does the effect also allow the PT:CHS I slotted in Zapping Bolt to go off?)

 

3. Can the effect be stacked with other Chance to Heal Self procs? (i.e., Entropic Chaos: Chance to Heal Self)? I can slot both PT:CHS and Entropic Chaos: Chance to Heal Self in Zapping Bolt for example.

 

4. Auto powers seems to have the best chance to proc for this particular proc on this particular build, as all my attacks base recharge are under 15 seconds except for Thunderous Blast (which is a targeted AoE as well). I feel like this proc is a waste of a slot based on the alternative healing I could get out of slotting a Heal IO in one of the my passive regen powers (Fast Healing in particular). On to the question - in what situation would someone want to slot this type of proc? 

[Bopper]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

@Bopper great thread, I've been using it a ton on my Elec/Regen Sentinel trying to maximize every bonus and proc chance. I noticed a few differences between the CoD entry for PT: Chance to Heal Self (henceforth PT:CHS) and the HCWiki and your guide, if you have a chance could you answer my questions below?

 

1. Does PT:CHS use Base HP or Max HP? (I recognize you indicate it uses Base HP in your guide, just double checking)

Base HP

 

2. Can the effect be stacked with itself using different powers that aren't auto powers? (i.e., I use Lightning Bolt and assuming proc activates, does the effect also allow the PT:CHS I slotted in Zapping Bolt to go off?)

Yes. They now can also stack from different powers that are auto powers. That was a bug fix introduced sometime this year.

 

3. Can the effect be stacked with other Chance to Heal Self procs? (i.e., Entropic Chaos: Chance to Heal Self)? I can slot both PT:CHS and Entropic Chaos: Chance to Heal Self in Zapping Bolt for example.

Yes

 

4. Auto powers seems to have the best chance to proc for this particular proc on this particular build, as all my attacks base recharge are under 15 seconds except for Thunderous Blast (which is a targeted AoE as well). I feel like this proc is a waste of a slot based on the alternative healing I could get out of slotting a Heal IO in one of the my passive regen powers (Fast Healing in particular). On to the question - in what situation would someone want to slot this type of proc? 

For Auto Powers: If the equivalent regeneration of the PT:CHS is more than what slotting a Heal IO into another auto-power would offer. In the cheat sheet I show the "equivalent regeneration" for all ATs at both Base HP and Max HP. For your character's current max HP, you'll need to calculate it. Luckily, the relationship is linear, so let's do an example on how to do that. 

 

If you are a Blaster with 1500 HP. Your equivalent regeneration of the PT:CHS is 60% at 1204.8 HP and 39.13% at 1847.3 HP. The equivalent regeneration at 1500 HP is:

ER = 60% + (1500 - 1204.8) x (39.13% - 60%) / (1847.3 - 1204.8) 

ER = 50.41%

 

For Click Powers: This is a huge "it depends". You would have to factor in your probability to hit, probability to proc, and the rate of using your attack. From that you can calculate an average HP/sec which you can translate into an equivalent regeneration.

[Glacier Peak]

47 minutes ago, Bopper said:

 

1. Does PT:CHS use Base HP or Max HP? (I recognize you indicate it uses Base HP in your guide, just double checking)

Base HP

 

2. Can the effect be stacked with itself using different powers that aren't auto powers? (i.e., I use Lightning Bolt and assuming proc activates, does the effect also allow the PT:CHS I slotted in Zapping Bolt to go off?)

Yes. They now can also stack from different powers that are auto powers. That was a bug fix introduced sometime this year.

 

3. Can the effect be stacked with other Chance to Heal Self procs? (i.e., Entropic Chaos: Chance to Heal Self)? I can slot both PT:CHS and Entropic Chaos: Chance to Heal Self in Zapping Bolt for example.

Yes

 

4. Auto powers seems to have the best chance to proc for this particular proc on this particular build, as all my attacks base recharge are under 15 seconds except for Thunderous Blast (which is a targeted AoE as well). I feel like this proc is a waste of a slot based on the alternative healing I could get out of slotting a Heal IO in one of the my passive regen powers (Fast Healing in particular). On to the question - in what situation would someone want to slot this type of proc? 

For Auto Powers: If the equivalent regeneration of the PT:CHS is more than what slotting a Heal IO into another auto-power would offer. In the cheat sheet I show the "equivalent regeneration" for all ATs at both Base HP and Max HP. For your character's current max HP, you'll need to calculate it. Luckily, the relationship is linear, so let's do an example on how to do that. 

 

If you are a Blaster with 1500 HP. Your equivalent regeneration of the PT:CHS is 60% at 1204.8 HP and 39.13% at 1847.3 HP. The equivalent regeneration at 1500 HP is:

ER = 60% + (1500 - 1204.8) x (39.13% - 60%) / (1847.3 - 1204.8) 

ER = 50.41%

 

For Click Powers: This is a huge "it depends". You would have to factor in your probability to hit, probability to proc, and the rate of using your attack. From that you can calculate an average HP/sec which you can translate into an equivalent regeneration.

Bopper you are a great member of this gaming community! Thank you so much for breaking it down for me, and hopefully others who read your awesome guide. 

[Mack008]

Why does Panacea have a greater effect on Defenders than Controllers & Dominators (106% vs 93%) when all three have the same base HP?

Edited July 9, 2023 by Mack008

[Bopper]

6 hours ago, Mack008 said:

Why does Panacea have a greater effect on Defenders than Controllers & Dominators (106% vs 93%) when all three have the same base HP?

Panacea uses the Melee_Heal modifier table, not the Melee_HealSelf modifier table (that uses base HP). Since defenders have the highest healing modifier, their procs will be stronger than those other ATs.

[Mack008]

Thank you.

[Story Archer]

(NM - answered in another thread)

Edited December 3, 2023 by Story Archer

[Bopper]

On 11/30/2023 at 11:25 AM, Story Archer said:

I'm pulling this up because you really seem to have your finger on the pulse of how healing and Regen works. I've been trying to figure out something for a while and I'm hoping you can help me with it. 

 

Assume Siphon Life unenhanced for healing. If I'm reading Mids right, when it successfully goes off, it heals you 10% of your health (total health, right?). I'm trying to get a sense of what that would be in terms of equivalent Regen - is this not possible due to Regen functioning in relation to your base HP vs. procs (which SL is more akin to) functioning in relation to your total HP?

 

For discussion's sake, let's say that it goes off reliably once every 10 seconds, or is the equivalent of an automatic 20% healing proc what can I compare that to? Would that be the equivalent of four P.T. procs?

The best way to come up with a formula is start somewhere that has all the same units. Given your question, I think we should look at how to convert everything to HP/sec, then convert back from there.

 

Starting with Siphon Life, that power does 10% of your base HP. If you enhance it, it will be your strength x base HP x 10%. Great, that tells us how much HP it will give us, but what is that in HP/sec? We would need to know the cast time of the power and the recycle time of the power's use. Siphon Life has a 10s cooldown and 1.93s cast time. For argument's sake, let's assume you slotted the power with a healing SO, and two recharge SOs, that puts us at 33.3% heal strength and 66.6% cooldown reduction. That gives us a heal amount that is 13.33% of base HP and a cooldown of 6s. Combined with the cast time, that gives us a cycle time of 6s + 1.93s = 7.93s.

 

So in this example, we're looking at Siphon Life doing 13.33% base HP every 7.93s.

 

What is that in terms of regeneration? Well this now depends on what your Max HP is, because regen works off max HP (self heals work off of base HP, as shown previously). Let's assume you have raised your max HP by 50%, so your max HP = 1.5 x base HP. Knowing that 100% regeneration (base regen rate) gives you 5% of your max HP every 12s, we can state 100% regen = 5% x 1.5 x base HP every 12s.

 

So what is Siphon Life in terms of Regeneration in this specific example?

Siphon Life = 13.33% base HP every 7.93s = X% regen = X% (5% x 1.5 x base HP every 12s). We are solving for X

( 13.33% x base HP / 7.93s ) / (5% x 1.5 x base HP / 12s) = X%

(13.33 x 12) / (7.93 x 5 x 1.5) = 159.96 / 59.475 = 2.69 = 269%

 

So, as you can see, there is a way to convert Siphon Life into terms of regeneration equivalency, but it depends on what your max HP is, how much heal your siphon life is doing (relative to base HP), and how often you're casting Siphon Life.

 

There is one thing I did not include in the calculation that is worth noting. I assumed Siphon Life hit. If you factor in your chance to hit, you can simply scale from there. Let's say you had a 90% chance to hit, then your regeneration equivalency would be 0.90 x 269% = 242%

[Story Archer]

On 5/11/2020 at 8:56 PM, Bopper said:

The only proc that has diminished returns in auto powers is Power Transfer when there are other Power Transfers slotted. All other procs/IOs have no impact on Power Transfers proc. 

 

The only other known procs that only can proc once per cast are Force Feedback (which doesn't get slotted into an auto) and Call of the Sandman (which doesn't get slotted into an auto). So the behavior I described is strictly a Power Transfer concern, as it also only can proc once per cast, but because auto powers are synchronized with proc ticks, the other autos are effectively being treated as the same cast (thus up to only one proc can trigger).

 

Slot as many Performance Shifters as you want, they can't hurt you.

 

I'm sorry to beat this horse, but after reading through the thread, I'm still a little confused and you've been very helpful with your other responses.

 

Putting this question as simply as I can (cuz I'm a simple guy), On a Willpower Tank I've got Quick Recovery and of course Stamina. I have each of those powers slotted with a Power Transfer +Heal proc and a Performance Shifter +End proc (I also have a Panacea proc in Health and a Preventive Medicine proc in an always-on RtoC).

 

Slotted as they are, am I losing anything when it comes to the individual effectiveness of the IO's listed, or are they all working just fine independent of one another?

 

If there is no conflict or diminishing returns, was this a problem before that has since been corrected, or was it never an issue as far as you know?

 

Thank you so much, your guides have given a great deal of clarity to myself and I'm sure many others.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Story Archer

[Bopper]

1 hour ago, Story Archer said:

If there is no conflict or diminishing returns, was this a problem before that has since been corrected, or was it never an issue as far as you know?

There is no longer a conflict. I think I updated the original post with that detail, but comments in the thread may be outdated.

[Story Archer]

5 hours ago, Bopper said:

There is no longer a conflict. I think I updated the original post with that detail, but comments in the thread may be outdated.

 I'm sure that's where the confusion stemmed from. Thanks again.