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DougGraves

CoH community is divided between 5 basic groups that see things differently

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Blastit said:

Why would this group necessarily be less correct? Perhaps the IO system is poorly designed and balanced, perhaps the relatively greater ease with which one can access the strongest sets is bad. I mean, people keep saying that the vast majority of the game was designed for SO builds and that the incarnate trials were only ramping up to challenge strong IO builds.

IOs dropped in Issue 9, which launched in May of 2007.  That was roughly 3 years after the game's launch, and more than 5 years before the game's sunset.  Even if we disregard the ~7 years of nostalgia-tinged darkness afterwards, and the year or so of Homecoming's existence, IOs have been a part of CoH for far longer than they weren't.

 

So whether the pre-IO (or anti-IO) group is "correct" about the game's balance scheme, which is an unanswerably subjective question, they have a pretty weak case when it comes to defining the essential character of the game as most players know and love it. 

 

Keep in mind that a sizable portion of the people who experienced the game prior to IOs also stayed for years afterwards.  I'm one of those; my subscription was active from launch day to sunset.  You can't convince me that the game would be more interesting or fun with only SO-era build options, even if you could somehow craft an intellectually unassailable argument that the game's balance would be "better."  You'd have a hard time convincing me that such a game would even be recognizable as City of Heroes, anymore.

 

I believe that was the point.  We're playing an extremely old and officially dead game.  There are changes you can justify, to improve, refine, or expand the experience, but for the most part people are here because they like the game for what it was (and is).  This isn't a situation that lends itself to sweeping revamps.

Edited by Obitus
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17 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

image.png.a2b85f20c91ca0cc6be8f6b7582b2ee5.png

This is just simply loaded with WIN  haha

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2 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

I'm pretty sure that everyone wants to secretly be a Mastermind and imagine other players as their pets.


And here I thought that I was the only one that played like that.


Playing CoX is it’s own reward

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4 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

This is a terrible list. There are two types of players, Scrappers and those that want to be Scrappers.

This is actually true, as everyone builds to be a scrapper 

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2 hours ago, Infinitum said:

This is just simply loaded with WIN  haha

SO is. I love it. XD

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Taker of screenshots. Player of creepy Oranbegans.

Kai's Diary: The Scrapbook of a Sorcerer's Apprentice

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6 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

image.png.a2b85f20c91ca0cc6be8f6b7582b2ee5.png

And all that ran through my mind...

 

Here's a story...of a lovely lady...

 

😁

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, EmmySky said:

And all that ran through my mind...

 

Here's a story...of a lovely lady...

 

😁

I just noticed that you can spell "BANKSY DFS" with the alphabetic avatars.

Edited by Rathulfr
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@Rathstar

Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting

Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior

Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable

Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer

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5 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

I just noticed that you can spell "BANKSY DFS" with the alphabetic avatars.

"FaDe iS BANKSY" SwitchFade's secret comes to light! 😮 

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What the OP is trying to do is define a set of player psychographic profiles for CoX. This is a concept used a lot in game design, and can be very helpful to deciding how to develop a game, and who the game’s target audience will be. For more information, here is a decent primer on the subject: https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/CalebCompton/20180626/320706/Player_Psychographics_Why_Do_We_Play.php

I think the psychographic profiles in the OP illuminate more about the author’s own biases than any kind of objective science, however. It’s not really possible for an individual player to gather the quantity and type of data required to design valid psychographic profiles, after all. But the idea is an interesting one to ponder, even if the conversation always inevitably devolves into an argument over character optimization and difficulty (neither of which are concepts most players really understand well enough to debate intelligently).

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On 5/22/2020 at 11:14 AM, DougGraves said:

The endless arguing on the boards may be fun for some but is generally pointless.  Debating whether defenses are too high assumes that the players have the same goals and interests.  In reality the playerbase is largely divided into 4 groups.

 

1. Solo players who just want to do their thing.  This is probably the largest group.  They spend time on IO sets or other godmode abilities if they want to, and if they don't want to they don't.  The pick and choose option works great for them.  More options is better because it lets them get what they want.

 

2. Team players who are just happy to be there.  They just play.  They consider defeating the villains to be good, and being defeated to be bad.  They assume that there is a challenge and do not think about it.  They assume they will get a reward and do not think about it.  They do not try to game the system.  They are blissfully unaware that there are more efficient or effective ways of doing things.  Their game play is affected by the godmode power level of other players but they are not aware of it.  If they get through a TF faster they think that is great.  They are happy in their ignorance.

 

3. Players who want godmode.  These are the farmers as well as others who have the opinion "I'm supposed to be a superhero so defeating everyone should be trivially easy".  They revel in power.  They cannot have too much power as long as there is the thinnest veneer that this is still a game.  Pressing a button to have all enemies die would not be fun, they want to feel like they are beating their foes, but they want it to be easy.

 

4. Players who want to be as powerful as possible but want to be challenged.  This is a tiny portion of the population.  They want to design builds and then see how good they are.  They do not want to just copy someone else's build and turn on godmode.  The fun for them is creating and testing the builds.

 

5. Team players who want to play the game and be challenged.  They want to play with others.  They are not interested in making builds.  They just want to play the game in a team and be challenged.  Taking damage is good.  Occasional defeats are good - they mean that there is a real challenge.  They differ from #2 in that they are aware of the difficulty.  If it is too easy they get bored.  I suspect that this is a small group in CoH, because the game is driving them away.

 

I cannot speak for how solo players play.  I have played enough teams to know that at least those who put teams together are rarely interested in a challenge.  Radio teams just doing council missions is definitely a thing, and the higher level you get the more likely it is that they only do council missions. 

 

Arguments about "it should be more challenging" or "we should get more influence for X" are just personal opinions masquerading as game design principles.

 

The playerbase has self selected down to the players who want to be powerful and they want the game to be easy.  Or they want to play by themselves.

Huh?

"Solo players are the largest group." Uhhh ok. 

"Those that put teams together are rarely interested in a challenge." Seriously?

"Players who want to be as powerful as possible but want to be challenged.  This is a tiny portion of the population." LOL seriously?

 

No idea where your opinion comes from, but it differs from my experience completely. 

1. With the amount of teaming that goes on in CoH I highly doubt your proclamation that solo players are the largest group. I would venture they are actually the minority.

2. Putting together a team is a challenge sometimes in and of itself...at least a good team. Players who regularly form teams/leagues are looking for a challenge. Running Mo, speed, and using challenge (using the -enhancements, enemies debuffed, etc) options is quite common and used to make the game more difficult. 

3. I know WAY more people who min/max to be powerful and challenged than you apparently. 

 

Your assumptions seem WAY off base from the reality of the game. Maybe you should switch servers, make new friends, or something... because you seem to have found and play with pretty boring people. 

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On 5/22/2020 at 3:13 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

When in doubt, eat more reds.

Please don't eat Red.

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"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."

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On 5/22/2020 at 10:38 PM, Apparition said:

 

I'm pretty sure that everyone wants to secretly be a Mastermind and imagine other players as their pets.

What do you mean "imagine"?  Aren't they?

 

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Dislike certain sounds? Head down to Silence/Modify specific sounds in Guides.

"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."

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Posted (edited)

I’m all over the place on this list.

 

When I started playing in Issue 3, I was a solo only scrapper who thought he was a min/maxer, even though I didn’t know how to do it correctly.

 

When I got my scrapper to 50 I started experimenting with other types. Ended up loving some very odd ‘underpowered’ builds cause they fit my character’s bio.


Once I felt I understood the game well, I loved putting teams together, but that was before IO’s and Incarnates. I don’t feel confident about being a team leader in Homecoming. I feel like a newbie again.

 

I have slowly come around to enjoying IO’s (they do make you feel powerful!) but one of the things I loved about CoH before IO’s was there was really not significant ‘loot’ until lvl 50 (Hamis). I hated the loot based system of games like EQ, where it felt like your base stats were trivial compared to your equipment. 
 

Currently the only things I like better than mowing down a fire farm in 4 minutes are: finishing the last badge for an accolade power, beating a seemingly unwinnable mission after several team wipes, finding a newbie and helping them get started, doing anything with a fun team, winning a costume contest, selling something for a big profit in the auction house, starting a new character . . . Hmm seems like I enjoy lots of things! So glad it’s back!

Edited by TJBC
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On 5/22/2020 at 8:52 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

image.png.a2b85f20c91ca0cc6be8f6b7582b2ee5.png

Thinking outside the box by putting things in a box to refute a neat boxes idiom while showing we're all really one box. Well done.

 

Makes me think of: https://youtu.be/GO5FwsblpT8

 

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On 5/22/2020 at 11:52 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

image.png.a2b85f20c91ca0cc6be8f6b7582b2ee5.png

I deeply appreciate being on the F'N D### axis.

 

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On 5/23/2020 at 6:28 AM, EmmySky said:

And all that ran through my mind...

 

Here's a story...of a lovely lady...

 

😁

"I choose Charles Nelson Reilly!"  "X for the win!"

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Starwave  Phantom Lass  Wolfhound

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On 5/22/2020 at 1:14 PM, DougGraves said:

4. Players who want to be as powerful as possible but want to be challenged.  This is a tiny portion of the population.  They want to design builds and then see how good they are.  They do not want to just copy someone else's build and turn on godmode.  The fun for them is creating and testing the builds.

This would be me.

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Ehhhhh, I think people just want to play COH, have fun and crack some jokes in the forums and in game, in chat.

 

But that's just me. 

 

😝

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On 5/22/2020 at 3:25 PM, Coyotedancer said:

I think it's a fool's errand to try to put any of us in neat little boxes. Gamers are human and humans are difficult to classify that way in almost anything we do... The City's no exception.

 

I'm a mostly-solo. Who also roleplays. And loves running her well-kitted, level 50+ support characters with mid-level teams. And on ship raids. And who also enjoys tearing apart farm maps with a tricked-out, you-don't-even-WANT-to-know-how-expensive, proc-monster bad-ass of a Brute. Sometimes I run with friends who are uberbuilder maniacs. Sometimes I run with friends who barely know what set bonuses are, and wouldn't have a proc to their name if I hadn't gifted them a Perf Shifter or a Panacea or a Kismet somewhere along the way. 

 

It's all fun. 

 

So, how about instead of trying to make silly distinctions and divide us all up into tidy little classification schemes we just step back and consider that what we actually have are just differences in opinion, born of different experiences and expectations that are the result of playing one hell of an adaptable, flexible game. It may not be "perfect" for everyone, but the fact that such a huge range of players STILL have enough interest to argue about it? That's an accomplishment in and of itself. 

 

 

This. Is. Beautiful.

This is the game we have now. Play it.

I will confess to crying when I logged in and heard the music again ....

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Another category is people who are concept-based, no?  I don't exactly role play in-game, but I choose powers based on the character idea I'm currently stuck on.  I work as an effects animator for sci-fi and fantasy cartoons, and I use this game to play around with powers customization.  I love to recolor and re-imagine a common powerset as something totally different.  I also write and draw a fantasy comic, and I develop those characters on CoH to get a better sense of their abilities and fighting style.  Obviously I don't want to be totally gimped, but I don't go crazy with their builds.  i'm aware of IO sets and bonuses, but usually I only throw a few in there as needed.  Crafted enhancements are effective and inexpensive, plus the game isn't really that hard. 

 

I see posts sometimes that equate avoiding fully IO-set builds with ignorance of the system.  But for me it's just that I mostly can't be bothered.  Dominators play fine without achieving perma-dom, despite claims that they are utterly useless without it.  I usually lose momentum in the late-game, because I've already got a new character idea I want to play.  I have a handful of 50s, they have a couple of IO sets here and there, and they have all (or most) of their Incarnate powers.  It's fun to be that powerful, but on many high-level teams you barely even notice that you're contributing, let alone needing the really fun tricks in your power sets that min/maxers would deem skippable.  For me, and probably a lot of other people, CoH is a creative/imaginative medium to play within. 

 

(if anyone is curious, here's the link to my webtoon.  all 5 of my 50s are different versions of the main character as different ATs.  https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/tales-from-the-sixth-sun/list?title_no=367223 )

 

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On 5/22/2020 at 4:05 PM, Greycat said:

giphy.gif

That cat is like "I will destroy you, human.  You have to sleep sometime, and I will waiting."

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Posted (edited)

To the OP though. Okay... sure.... I don't think those are the only categories you could draw, but if for the sake of the argument you wanted to run with them.... fine.

 

So what? Okay. People want different things out of a game.  Why is that a bad thing?

 

Admittedly, the small volunteer dev team we have cannot satisfy everyone with all that they want.  If anyone was expecting that they could, well, they were being foolish, and they will have opportunities to temper their expectations as months and years go by.  It can be a good life lesson for them to reflect that you can't always get what you want.   There will be some changes I like, some changes I look at and wish it were undone. 

 

I already look askance at half of "Help" chat who are constantly asking what's the "best" powersets for a given AT, or who ask what's the "best" way to pile up inf or merits, and shake my head saying "okay, same planet, different worlds."  Because my stock answer, which they are entirely un-interested in, is that "Best" NEVER MATTERS in this game, just pick something you have fun with.  And okay, if you get all the "Best" characters and rush them all to 50 and gear them all up.... then what?  If you're a powergamer, do you just stop playing the game beacuse you've done it all?  Why not take time, level slowly, and enjoy the trip?   Again, "Same Planet, Different Worlds".  What I value is clearly not what they value, and vice versa.  I don't really need to convince them, and they don't need to convince me. 

 

I will say if you want to bring back some serrrrious endgame progression challenge to the game, best bet is grab 7 others who feel the same way, and start using things like "No Enhancements" challenges. Or rules that, for these characters, No IO sets, period.  You do it oldschool style.  Levelling vs +2 mobs with bosses.  Will the rest of the world be facing the same challenge?  No.  But why should you care?  If you have a serious challenge you have fun with, what's it matter if someone else is facerolling a win?  Like a soldier or artist who simply doesnt' care about the opinions of civilians who do not and will not ever get it, you don't need to care if other people want other things out of the game than what you want. 

 

 

 

Edited by MTeague
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