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longdayinrehab

So, toggles...

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Hey there everyone.

 

Back in the before-times I only ever played Blasters and Controllers regularly. Now that we are back in game, I find myself playing with melee far more often. My highest is a recently-turned-40 scrapper and I realized while on a mission where I kept getting debt that it was time to respec.

 

I found several builds, but they all include tough, weave, combat jumping, and maneuvers. Adding those to my shield defense toggles that brings me to 7 toggles.

 

Do folks actually run all of these toggles at the same time or are they used in different situations?

 

Admittedly, I've only half-slotted attuned enhancements into my powers, but I prioritized the various recovery/regen procs and filled the rest out with lvl 40 generic IOs (including end reduction)...

But it seems like I may still be drinking the blue bar like water in the desert.

 

What am I missing here?

 

(I can post the build I'm currently building from when I'm back at my computer, but wanted to get this question out)

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24 minutes ago, longdayinrehab said:

Do folks actually run all of these toggles at the same time or are they used in different situations?

Yes, people run all these toggles at the same time. What you are missing is what those build also have slotted in the Health and Stamina powers. Typically almost everyone runs Health with 3 slots and Stamina with 2 slots. Panacea, Miracle and Numina's procs in Health along with Performance Shifter proc with it's End Mod piece. Many of the toggles will also have endurance reduction IOs in them to help offset the cost.

 

Another thing that will help you with your endurance is the Atlas Medallion accolade which is very easy to get starting at level 23. All you need to do is run the Moonfire TF (min level23) twice and you will get The Silver Bullet and The Slayer badges. From there you get the various History and Exploration Badges needed and complete a 5 minute mission accessible from Ouro flashback (I do it a -1/1 difficulty to get it over asap). This will give you a permanent +5% Max Endurance bonus which in addition to giving you extra end will make all your recovery% powers and procs stronger. Another accolade that will help with this is Portal Jockey but this is only obtainable at higher levels and requires a lot more work than Atlas Medallion but it will give another +5% end and +5%HP.

 

Also, builds you look at are made for the end game and are full of IO sets and you will find set bonuses here and there that will give: Endurance Discount, +Recovery% and +Max End% which all contribute to a healthy blue bar.

 

Some sets naturally eat more endurance than others, Titan Weapon for example is an extremely endurance heavy set so if you pair it with a secondary that doesn't offer any endurance you will find yourself drained no matter what you do. Sets like Willpower, Bio Armor, Radiation Armor and Regeneration all have passives that give you end regen and can take an other Performance Shifter proc in them. The power pool Body Mastery also has a power that can fit an other Performance Shifter proc in it.
Sets like Fire Armor, Electric Armor and Energy Aura have a click power than will drain endurance from nearby enemies and refill your bar.

Some offensive sets also have some endurance mitigation effects in them, Dark Melee has a click endurance drain and Staff Fighting has a stance that reduces endurance consumption.

Edited by Seigmoraig
  • Like 4

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On my Shield scrapper i run with all the toggles. Like @Seimoraig very thoroughly explained, i use 1 end redux in all my attacks, 1 end redux in all toggles, and also buy the attuned versions of the IO procs he mentioned since they scale down to very low levels. I keep this set-up until i'm ready to switch to a full build with IO sets.

As a side note, don't you wish we all had a pocket Kin? 😛

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lets unpack this a bit:

  • combat jumping (uses almost no endurance, no endurance reduction enhancement needed)
  • tough (optional, sometimes when not shooting for resistance, just used to hold unique enhancements with global bonuses)
  • weave (optional, this provides more defense than maneuvers but still less defense than one Luck image.png.e324e8e2b874c7890018384499154352.png inspiration 12.5% or Good Luck 25%)
  • maneuvers (optional, less defense and more end cost BUT does help teammates)
  • side note: which one of these helps defeat targets? Scrappers gotta scrap.

optional= does not have to be selected or even used 100% of the time.

 

I'd lean toward different situations require different solutions.

 

Shooting for enough defense so we can pop a Luck as needed is perfectly reasonable.

Edited by Troo

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47 minutes ago, Seigmoraig said:

What you are missing is what those build also have slotted in the Health ... Panacea, Miracle and Numina's

 

1 hour ago, longdayinrehab said:

I prioritized the various recovery/regen procs

------------------------------

def post your build once you have a chance so we can see where the issues are, & help.

i never try to limit how many toggles my builds use, but do try to hit a min 3/1 End Ratio before Acco ...some builds need more, but it's usually not by much (unless both sets are extremely costly, as Seig mentioned). i see a LOT of posted builds with very little End Reduc in high-consumption toggles, and even some widely-heralded "amazing/great/ect" builds with under 2/1 ratio. also see times where peeps throw slots at +End, when the consumption could have been dealt with instead via better slotting in the toggle, which would have made the toggle also perform better. i'm a function>form guy, so builds like those are "trailer queen" status to me (impractical/unusable), & only worth admiring in small sections rather than as whole.

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46 minutes ago, Troo said:
  • weave (optional, this provides more defense than maneuvers but still less defense than one Luck image.png.e324e8e2b874c7890018384499154352.png inspiration 12.5% or Good Luck 25%)
  • maneuvers (optional, less defense and more end cost BUT does help teammates)

Sure these provide less than Luck inspirations but Good Luck trying to get through missions eating those inspirations as they wear out, my guess is that you will go through your whole tray before the first mission is over. You should never rely on inspirations for anything other than to get you through a rough 30 secs

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I run 11 toggles on my main and have sustainable endurance. It's a Brute, but same idea. I handle it by being fully IO'd plus Cardiac Core Paragon, but here are some easier ideas for helping your blue bar:

  • Three blues and one Performance Shifter proc in Stamina
  • Panacea, Numina, and Miracle in Health
  • Slot endurance reduction liberally
  • Sets or frankenslotting in attacks
  • The Atlas Medallion
  • Portal Jockey
  • Conserve Power
  • Physical Perfection with Performance Shifter Proc
  • Know which toggles you can afford to turn off against which enemies
Edited by Werner
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

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26 minutes ago, Seigmoraig said:

Sure these provide less than Luck inspirations but Good Luck trying to get through missions eating those inspirations as they wear out, my guess is that you will go through your whole tray before the first mission is over. You should never rely on inspirations for anything other than to get you through a rough 30 secs

I don't disagree. Folks shouldn't get the impression they have to take all of those toggles. Everything has trade offs.

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Here's what I have now (I can adjust this with common IOs, but can't afford more sets and such until I get more influence):

 

Quote

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Wargrrl: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Broad Sword
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1:    Hack    
 (A) Accuracy IO
 (50) Damage Increase IO
 (50) Damage Increase IO
 (50) Accuracy IO
 (50) Recharge Reduction IO
 (50) Endurance Reduction IO


Level 1:    Deflection    
 (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
 (50) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
 (50) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
 (50) Red Fortune - Defense
 (50) Red Fortune - Endurance
 (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed


Level 2:    Battle Agility    
 (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
 (50) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
 (50) Defense Buff IO
 (50) Red Fortune - Defense
 (50) Defense Buff IO
 (50) Endurance Reduction IO


Level 4:    Slice    
 (A) Accuracy IO
 (50) Damage Increase IO
 (50) Damage Increase IO
 (50) Accuracy IO
 (50) Endurance Reduction IO


Level 6:    Build Up    
 (A) To Hit Buff IO
 (50) To Hit Buff IO
 (50) Recharge Reduction IO
 (50) Recharge Reduction IO
 (50) Endurance Reduction IO
 (50) Endurance Reduction IO


Level 8:    True Grit    
 (A) Resist Damage IO
 (50) Resist Damage IO
 (50) Resist Damage IO
 (50) Healing IO
 (50) Healing IO
 (50) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance


Level 10:    Parry    
 (A) Accuracy IO
 (50) Accuracy IO


Level 12:    Kick    
 (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge


Level 14:    Tough    
 (A) Resist Damage IO
 (50) Resist Damage IO
 (50) Resist Damage IO
 (50) Endurance Reduction IO


Level 16:    Weave    
 (A) Defense Buff IO
 (50) Defense Buff IO
 (50) Defense Buff IO
 (50) Endurance Reduction IO
 (50) Endurance Reduction IO


Level 18:    Whirling Sword    
 (A) Accuracy IO
 (50) Damage Increase IO
 (50) Damage Increase IO
 (50) Accuracy IO
 (50) Endurance Reduction IO


Level 20:    Super Speed    
 (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
 (50) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance


Level 22:    Maneuvers    
 (A) Defense Buff IO
 (50) Endurance Reduction IO
 (50) Endurance Reduction IO


Level 24:    Active Defense    
 (A) Recharge Reduction IO
 (50) Recharge Reduction IO


Level 26:    Disembowel    
 (A) Accuracy IO


Level 28:    Against All Odds    
 (A) Endurance Reduction IO


Level 30:    Combat Jumping    
 (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
 (50) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance


Level 32:    Head Splitter    
 (A) Accuracy IO


Level 35:    Shield Charge    
 (A) Damage Increase IO


Level 38:    Phalanx Fighting    
 (A) Defense Buff IO


Level 41:    [Empty]    
Level 44:    [Empty]    
Level 47:    [Empty]    
Level 49:    [Empty]    
Level 1:    Brawl    
 (A) Empty


Level 1:    Critical Hit    
Level 1:    Prestige Power Dash    
 (A) Empty


Level 1:    Prestige Power Slide    
 (A) Empty


Level 1:    Prestige Power Quick    
 (A) Empty


Level 1:    Prestige Power Rush    
 (A) Empty


Level 1:    Prestige Power Surge    
 (A) Empty


Level 1:    Sprint    
 (A) Empty


Level 2:    Rest    
 (A) Empty


Level 4:    Ninja Run    
Level 2:    Swift    
 (A) Run Speed IO


Level 2:    Health    
 (A) Miracle - +Recovery
 (3) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb
 (3) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery


Level 2:    Hurdle    
 (A) Jumping IO


Level 2:    Stamina    
 (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod
 (5) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End


------------

 

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1248&c=504&a=1008&f=HEX&dc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

 

Here's the build I'm moving toward:

 

Quote

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Wargrrl 1: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Broad Sword
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1:    Hack    
 (A) Superior Critical Strikes - Accuracy/Damage
 (3) Superior Critical Strikes - Damage/RechargeTime
 (3) Superior Critical Strikes - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
 (5) Superior Critical Strikes - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
 (5) Superior Critical Strikes - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
 (7) Superior Critical Strikes - RechargeTime/+50% Crit Proc


Level 1:    Deflection    
 (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
 (7) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
 (9) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
 (9) Red Fortune - Defense
 (11) Red Fortune - Endurance
 (11) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed


Level 2:    Battle Agility    
 (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
 (13) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
 (13) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
 (15) Red Fortune - Defense
 (15) Red Fortune - Endurance
 (17) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed


Level 4:    Slice    
 (A) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
 (21) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
 (21) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (23) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (23) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage


Level 6:    Build Up    
 (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
 (25) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
 (27) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
 (27) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
 (29) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
 (29) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up


Level 8:    True Grit    
 (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
 (31) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
 (31) Numina's Convalesence - Heal
 (31) Numina's Convalesence - Heal/Endurance
 (33) Panacea - Heal
 (33) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance


Level 10:    Parry    
 (A) Accuracy IO
 (33) Accuracy IO


Level 12:    Kick    
 (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge


Level 14:    Tough    
 (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
 (34) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
 (34) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
 (40) Reactive Armor - Endurance


Level 16:    Weave    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
 (34) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
 (36) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
 (36) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
 (40) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage


Level 18:    Whirling Sword    
 (A) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage
 (37) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Endurance
 (37) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Recharge
 (37) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
 (39) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal)


Level 20:    Super Speed    
 (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
 (39) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance


Level 22:    Maneuvers    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
 (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
 (40) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed


Level 24:    Active Defense    
 (A) Recharge Reduction IO
 (25) Recharge Reduction IO


Level 26:    Disembowel    
 (A) Hecatomb - Damage
 (42) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
 (42) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (42) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
 (43) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
 (43) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff


Level 28:    Against All Odds    
 (A) Endurance Reduction IO


Level 30:    Combat Jumping    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
 (36) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
 (43) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
 (45) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance


Level 32:    Head Splitter    
 (A) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage
 (45) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Recharge/Critical Hit Bonus
 (46) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (46) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (46) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (48) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff


Level 35:    Shield Charge    
 (A) Armageddon - Damage
 (48) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
 (48) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (50) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
 (50) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance


Level 38:    Phalanx Fighting    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed


Level 41:    Grant Cover    
 (A) Endurance Reduction IO


Level 44:    Hasten    
 (A) Recharge Reduction IO
 (50) Recharge Reduction IO


Level 47:    Conserve Power    
 (A) Recharge Reduction IO


Level 49:    Physical Perfection    
 (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End


Level 1:    Brawl    
 (A) Accuracy IO


Level 1:    Critical Hit    
Level 1:    Prestige Power Dash    
 (A) Empty


Level 1:    Prestige Power Slide    
 (A) Empty


Level 1:    Prestige Power Quick    
 (A) Empty


Level 1:    Prestige Power Rush    
 (A) Empty


Level 1:    Prestige Power Surge    
 (A) Empty


Level 1:    Sprint    
 (A) Celerity - +Stealth


Level 2:    Rest    
 (A) Recharge Reduction IO


Level 4:    Ninja Run    
Level 2:    Swift    
 (A) Run Speed IO


Level 2:    Health    
 (A) Miracle - +Recovery
 (17) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb
 (19) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration
 (45) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery


Level 2:    Hurdle    
 (A) Jumping IO


Level 2:    Stamina    
 (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod
 (19) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End


Level 0:    Freedom Phalanx Reserve    
Level 0:    Portal Jockey    
Level 0:    Task Force Commander    
Level 0:    The Atlas Medallion    
Level 50:    Agility Core Paragon    
Level 50:    Mighty Radial Final Judgement    
Level 50:    Reactive Core Flawless Interface    
Level 50:    Cimeroran Core Superior Ally    
Level 50:    Ageless Core Epiphany    
Level 50:    Melee Core Embodiment    
------------

 

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1579&c=720&a=1440&f=HEX&dc=78DA65944B6F12511886CFC060E50EA5F46AB95AA040695117DEA249AD9A68496A88BA3238654E8184143234D6EACA857FC04DFF8056DDF803DCB9355E9626FA1BAA26EE8C3A7E9DEF05266112F29C79CF79CFF7CEC799A93C5CF3BDB9FEE4B2500257DA5AAF57ABD60DADDB9586ABA2355A754197FBAE66340CA39D288FD1DD6C7F41AD22DB5296568D8EA6D7AABB1D438F0FA6D6E496DCEEC952B5D9926DBD7F2BFC1B9D4EBB74ADD568EEB4B61B1EEBAEDA95520F5AC375A9E9D2E8355B5D5FFFBE4BEBC257BBAD7A69B5A3EFD52A5A6F471A7BD39463997EB5A340D665BAC47D5588B22A1C1AB8C954EBA0CE3C26991E3FD914783D0ACF7999C7FD6080E9098251A697BC0ABC0ABC3E787DF006E00DC01B8257A3CC4ECEAC3AFF382C6DE22FF88F396982472B899BE471E1395DCF796EFA0573F6007CC93CF10A7CED401E21C690756C8A06F3AA889DE27D63B73953EC163391603D9164D6A9AEDB6A92A9B86705CF810E9AF37226E17DCAB59CA4F9B996D31FA3415615C938986466D34C95D60679AD1A0C71FDE404338D5EA56F728EEC2FA6244F18BD0B3FE01C2777C13DF091B09E31F39899264F843D4AE42BE7CC7C6386692ECA191C5164C820431619FCD4BF29F8A70A5C631ADC22FF0CFE97990CEFB9980573E022339F07DF1123742E68DF39EB1099622EC9FB4DD27EF3E8DF7CBF17C89547F622B237686D1CB5E3EFB93FC5CFCCA50FE047F0137319B5C3543B853EA6CEF27ECBE7C0F3CCF205F02233489E05CE2616D09B10693968393C438A721558530AE85319AC528C12CE4C09DA01EDB1823D56F67176D5C17B4D1F1C5E175707EFAB99B7CF9B74899511A53CA29C1E51CE8C28EB76C5CD69365414264D416A7768F0169B879EC1D740284B3CFF63A839951B7CE24387FC2F8C5FE2B7B07887BBF8DDEECFB1FFE7505394679C631CDDD9F058E9ACDAF76C63CD36DEB48D7F4F920DE3E6228DD1C52F91A1EE8E0EF57D9BFE36351CFF07872FE587

 

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16 minutes ago, longdayinrehab said:

Here's the build I'm moving toward:

It looks to me like you already understand how to fix the problem - that build shouldn't have any endurance issues at all. Quite the opposite, I would expect.

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3 hours ago, longdayinrehab said:

I found several builds, but they all include tough, weave, combat jumping, and maneuvers. Adding those to my shield defense toggles that brings me to 7 toggles.

 

Do folks actually run all of these toggles at the same time or are they used in different situations?

I will typically only run my Primary/Secondary toggles 'all the time'. Often it is in these where the status protection is coming from, as well as some unique effects modulo the AT and the set.

 

Tough is almost always the last toggle I activate. If Endurance isn't an issue and if I am specifically facing S/L damage I will have it on. I happen to think that S/L resistance is over-emphasized in a lot of builds. Capping S/L resists may mean something in farms or specific content, but the game isn't as focused on soaking S/L damage as you might think by reviewing certain builds.

 

I rarely run with Combat Jumping on, as I weirdly like to have Ninja Run on all the time. I try to have Immobilization resists without relying on Combat Jumping.

 

I will keep Maneuvers and Weave on, as those are contributing to my defenses. Other Leadership toggles depend on teammates and/or content.

 

Many toggle powers act as mules for my builds, whether they are run or not. Inspirations (Purples first, then Greens, then Oranges) are perfectly fine choices to make over running toggles.

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2 hours ago, Krazie Ivan said:

i see a LOT of posted builds with very little End Reduc in high-consumption toggles, and even some widely-heralded "amazing/great/ect" builds with under 2/1 ratio... i'm a function>form guy, so builds like those are "trailer queen" status to me (impractical/unusable), & only worth admiring in small sections rather than as whole.

My DM/SR Brute has 10 toggles and a 1.7/1 ratio with accolades turned off. Yet in actual play, he can punch things all day long, his endurance bar rarely dips far, and I keep forgetting that I took and slotted Dark Consumption. Turning on accolades brings him to 1.9/1. Mids doesn't include the average recovery from procs, and he has 3 Performance Shifters and a Panacea, bringing him to 2.4/1. He has 117.3 endurance. Some toggles are easily-dropped depending on the situation. He has Dark Consumption. A simple ratio, even if it's a decent rule of thumb, misses too much to be very useful as a way of understanding a build's endurance management.

Edited by Werner
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Thank you all.

 

I think it'll be fixed once I have the influence to complete the build. I'm learning the ins and outs of the toggles as I play and all of your advice is very helpful.

 

Just a small learning curve, but I think your comments have helped me with catching up.

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3 hours ago, Werner said:

A simple ratio, even if it's a decent rule of thumb, misses too much to be very useful as a way of understanding a build's endurance management.

right, gotta take everything into consideration. sorry if it sounded like i was advising to dismiss a build *solely* based on End Ratio... wasn't my intent, or my practice. even if most builds can't fight endlessly on a 2/1 ratio, absolutely have to look at all variables to understand if a char is gonna wheeze & sputter uselessly (example: : low End cost attack sets can become high End use when activation times are fast).

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9 hours ago, longdayinrehab said:

Here's what I have now (I can adjust this with common IOs, but can't afford more sets and such until I get more influence):

 

 

Here's the build I'm moving toward:

 

 

Until you’ve got the sets, The only suggestion I have would be to drop build up to just 3 rech redux and drop an end redux off of weave. Use those slots to six slot your attacks with another damage enhancement each. Increasing your damage would end up ultimately using less end. 

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On 5/25/2020 at 12:02 AM, Mutant X-7 said:

Until you’ve got the sets, The only suggestion I have would be to drop build up to just 3 rech redux and drop an end redux off of weave. Use those slots to six slot your attacks with another damage enhancement each. Increasing your damage would end up ultimately using less end. 

I'm not the OP (and I'm ignoring the Endurance question for this specific reply) but I am a great fan of 6-slotting 'Build Up' powers with 6xGaussian's set... especially on high-(global) recharge builds. The set bonuses are very good for scrappy/blappy play, and the Build Up can be ready every 21-30 seconds with a nearly-guaranteed extra Build Up (from the proc) as well. One of the set bonuses is an extra (2.5%?) Recovery IIRC.

 

I would look very hard at slotting three recharge reduction IOs. I think two (boosted 50+5) IOs are as practical a slotting as possible for recharge, for most (<6-minute-recharge) powers.

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I bind all my toggles to one button using a long string of powexectoggleon (the ` to the left of 1). Then I don't think about them or need to look at them. You can also make a bind to powexectoggleoff your stealth powers such as sprint if housing a stealth IO, super speed, or powers like arctic fog or shadow fall for escorting NPCs. If your endurance is dropping from prolonged combat you can purchase recovery serums from p2w vendor so you can just click that instead of thinking about detoggling.


Currently on fire.

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3 hours ago, tidge said:

I'm not the OP (and I'm ignoring the Endurance question for this specific reply) but I am a great fan of 6-slotting 'Build Up' powers with 6xGaussian's set... especially on high-(global) recharge builds. The set bonuses are very good for scrappy/blappy play, and the Build Up can be ready every 21-30 seconds with a nearly-guaranteed extra Build Up (from the proc) as well. One of the set bonuses is an extra (2.5%?) Recovery IIRC.

 

I would look very hard at slotting three recharge reduction IOs. I think two (boosted 50+5) IOs are as practical a slotting as possible for recharge, for most (<6-minute-recharge) powers.


Without a doubt 6 slotting Gaus is great and if not slotting Gaus 2 rech redux, but as of his current build, which looks like its sub 50 and not having a bunch of sets yet, this was my suggestion to help with his current end issues, and until he can slot a full Gaus.

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On 5/24/2020 at 4:51 PM, Seigmoraig said:

Typically almost everyone runs Health with 3 slots and Stamina with 2 slots. Panacea, Miracle and Numina's procs in Health along with Performance Shifter proc with it's End Mod piece.

I see this slotting quite a bit too but I'm pretty sure the numina proc doesn't give the return that moving that slot to stamina would give with a plain end mod in it. 50+5 it and it's way ahead. Of course the numina also gives regen so if that's a thing in a build then it's a consideration but I think most people are chasing recovery primarily.

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5 hours ago, parabola said:

I see this slotting quite a bit too but I'm pretty sure the numina proc doesn't give the return that moving that slot to stamina would give with a plain end mod in it. 50+5 it and it's way ahead. Of course the numina also gives regen so if that's a thing in a build then it's a consideration but I think most people are chasing recovery primarily.

possibly but I've never seen the need to 3 slot stamina on any of my characters that are using the procs, If you are using only SOs then yeah 3 slot it but not if you are using procs. I even have it at 1 slot with only p.shifter on many of my lower consumption characters.

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5 hours ago, parabola said:

I see this slotting quite a bit too but I'm pretty sure the numina proc doesn't give the return that moving that slot to stamina would give with a plain end mod in it. 50+5 it and it's way ahead. Of course the numina also gives regen so if that's a thing in a build then it's a consideration but I think most people are chasing recovery primarily.

 Add me to the pool of players that very rarely use the Numina proc, primarily for the reason identified. I encourage folks to review the effects either using MIDS or by the in-game mechanisms (and some unslotters/respecs if necessary).

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24 minutes ago, tidge said:

Add me to the pool of players that very rarely use the Numina proc, primarily for the reason identified. I encourage folks to review the effects either using MIDS or by the in-game mechanisms (and some unslotters/respecs if necessary).

I plugged the build in mids without any mods (All the toggles at their maximum unenhanced end cost). This is why you don't need to put those extra slots in stamina, there is no way once you factor in the end redux/+end/end recov from his various sets that he will run out of endo.
According to the mids "View Totals" page, Numina's by it's self gives 0.18 end
When taking out the Numina's and adding a +5 end mod to Stamina, it gives 0.15 end not counting the extra healing you get from Numina's

Personally I think he's gone a bit overboard with the Agility Alpha slot, I would drop that for Musculature because his end management will be 100% fine

 

 

image.thumb.png.4ab988ccf7643b90a104306dd747f7e7.png

Edited by Seigmoraig

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5 hours ago, parabola said:

I see this slotting quite a bit too but I'm pretty sure the numina proc doesn't give the return that moving that slot to stamina would give with a plain end mod in it. 50+5 it and it's way ahead. Of course the numina also gives regen so if that's a thing in a build then it's a consideration but I think most people are chasing recovery primarily.

Stamina gives you +25% base recovery. Numina gives you 10% base recovery. Basically this means that higher than 40% EndMod enhancement in Stamina is going to beat Numina's. However, Numina's also gives you a bit of Regeneration and depending on what you've already slotted in Stamina, ED might cause the slot to be more worthwhile as a Numina's rather than an additional EndMod in Stamina.


Torchbearer:

Sunsinger - Fire/Time Corruptor

Cursebreaker - TW/Elec Brute

Coldheart - Ill/Cold Controller

Mythoclast - Rad/SD Scrapper

 

Give a man a build export and you feed him for a day, teach him to build and he's fed for a lifetime.

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