Ill/Emp noob aggro question

[TJBC]

Does an Ill/Emp running Superior Invisibility get mob aggro from Heals?

[Frostweaver]

Yes.

However. PA causes a Lot MORE aggro, so in general they should help keep aggro off you.

[TJBC]

Does healing break invis? I thought it didn’t, that would be a bummer if it did. But if not then how can they target you? 

[Frostweaver]

it causes aggro and breaks invisibility if you hit anyone with it.

But in general, your teammates are going to be causing a lot MORE aggro than you are.

[TJBC]

My problem is I have a possibly misguided idea of making a ‘shadow healer‘ Ill/Emp

that doesn’t use pets, just holds/confuses/heals/buffs.

 

[TJBC]

Ok thanks

[Peacemoon]

6 hours ago, TJBC said:

My problem is I have a possibly misguided idea of making a ‘shadow healer‘ Ill/Emp

that doesn’t use pets, just holds/confuses/heals/buffs.

 

You’d be better off being a defender with the concealment power pool if you don’t want to use the pets. Defender’s get better buffs and heals than controllers, and endurance discount when people lose health. 
 

An illusion controller without pets is hamstringing yourself. Empathy controllers are good but you’d need to be using your primary more actively otherwise you might as well be a defender. 
 

If you want control and heals without any pets, maybe Mind/Empathy with concealment power pool would be a better fit? Some of mind control’s powers can be used without aggroing mobs too (confuse, AoE sleep, AoE confuse).

[Without_Pause]

4 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

You’d be better off being a defender with the concealment power pool if you don’t want to use the pets. Defender’s get better buffs and heals than controllers, and endurance discount when people lose health. 
 

An illusion controller without pets is hamstringing yourself. Empathy controllers are good but you’d need to be using your primary more actively otherwise you might as well be a defender. 
 

If you want control and heals without any pets, maybe Mind/Empathy with concealment power pool would be a better fit? Some of mind control’s powers can be used without aggroing mobs too (confuse, AoE sleep, AoE confuse).

+1. Ill without pets is going to leave one with a bad experience. My Ill/emp from live had little issue with aggro due to the pets, and I play aggressive. Mind/emp is a good backup. A defender is going to have attacks which will in turn generate more aggro towards you as that seems to be a primary issue for you. This could lead to more of a "healer" type of build and well, screw that meta. Healers are for WoW. 🙂 On a steamrolling team, your heals will get less use so might as well blast away. In short Ill/emp works fine as is. I honestly think it is the best support version of Empathy.

[Doomguide2005]

16 hours ago, Frostweaver said:

it causes aggro and breaks invisibility if you hit anyone with it.

<snip> 

I so badly need to get in game and test this out.  I've played an absolutely crazy number of hours on Empaths, granted only once 1 to 50 paired with a controller set.  I can never recall pulling any aggro with either my buffs or heals where it was obvious to me.  So if it (and it would have to be just HA it's the only non single target heal) does it's got to be miniscule compared to everything else.  But given my playstyle I'm usually either blasting like crazy between buffs (teamed) or running solo (also attacking like crazy, duh).  And unless it went seriously pear-shaped I'm still drawing aggro with my own activity on a team right up until it all headed south with attacks.  Basically AFAIK nothing Empathy does creates or draws aggro.  The two Auras (Recovery and Regeneration) and Healing Aura are the only powers that even effect more than one Ally never mind foes.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Doomguide2005
Clarity, typos

[Frostweaver]

well, if it doesn't break hide, please let me know.

I DO know it causes aggro, though. tested by healing a newbie in the hollows who was fighting a horde of trolls, died, and the trolls came right after me despite having concealment active. And healing causes aggro in pretty much every MMO in existence. Unfortunately, unlike stalker and bane stealth, it's sometimes difficult to tell when concealment or invisibility is broken. (especially if you are a level 50 in a level 10 zone waiting for your hollows badge)

Edited June 3, 2020 by Frostweaver

[Without_Pause]

If you were the only other character around, then that makes sense. I don't think in a group situation and more so with a brute or tank it is really going to matter. I pretty much have to jump ahead of them to generate unnecessary unwanted aggro.

[Doomguide2005]

5 hours ago, Frostweaver said:

well, if it doesn't break hide, please let me know.

I DO know it causes aggro, though. tested by healing a newbie in the hollows who was fighting a horde of trolls, died, and the trolls came right after me despite having concealment active. And healing causes aggro in pretty much every MMO in existence. Unfortunately, unlike stalker and bane stealth, it's sometimes difficult to tell when concealment or invisibility is broken. (especially if you are a level 50 in a level 10 zone waiting for your hollows badge)

Could be, I've never tested it.  And never really been in a situation where it wasn't utterly muddied by everything else going on around (and by) me. I also tend to run around with SS active along with a stealth proc and SS does have a -1 to threat in addition to its stealth component which might be enough to dump the aggro caused by buffs/heals faster than it generates.  Unfortunately no idea when I'd be able to test/experiment with things.  Computer died and left me with just a phone for internet access.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Doomguide2005
Awful spelling

[Doomguide2005]

@Frostweaver -> You're saying you were a lvl 50 Empath, not exemplared, helping a lvl 10 in the Hollows ... when he dropped all his Troll foes then turned on you while you had Stealth from the Concealment pool active and all you had done is use Heal Other +/- Heal Aura on the lvl 10?  

[Frostweaver]

9 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

@Frostweaver -> You're saying you were a lvl 50 Empath, not exemplared, helping a lvl 10 in the Hollows ... when he dropped all his Troll foes then turned on you while you had Stealth from the Concealment pool active and all you had done is use Heal Other +/- Heal Aura on the lvl 10?  

uh... no?

I was a level 50 fire control/radiation dominator, hopping around the hollows badging while I was having a debate about Darwin's theory of natural selection in general chat and waiting to get my hollows timed badge, something I missed levelling up because I ran DFB's for the first 12 levels instead of the hollows arc.

I had stealth from the concealment pool and a stealth IO in sprint active, and was perma-dommed, and I noticed a level 5 ninja blade/something stalker or scrapper, I think, getting gang-banged by a bunch of trolls on 'troll hill'. So when I hit the ground I quickly popped him with my incredibly crappy 'aid other' heal that I took to open a slot for 'aid self' and kept in my 'weird and temporary powers' bar alongside the anti-undead shotgun and croatoa Longbow and iron sword reward powers. I noticed he used... umm... slice, I think, or maybe flashing steel, right after I healed him.

I got involved in the discussion again and after a few moments a pack of like 8 level 5-6 trolls and for some weird reason a lost blaster wandered over and tried to beat on me. I had no auras on and nothing but a heal SO slotted in my aid other, and noticed the poor stalker was dead and half of these little guys had some damage on them.

And I remembered that in the distant past, when I used to play ill/rad, the same thing generally happened when I randomly healed someone while I had super invis turned on.

Not sure where you got the story you just said, though... Not one of those details was in anything I said.
Are you trying to be funny, or are you really tired, or do you always come up with weird crap like that to troll with?

Edited June 4, 2020 by Frostweaver

[Coyote]

1 hour ago, Frostweaver said:

Are you trying to be funny, or are you really tired, or do you always come up with weird crap like that to troll with?

 

Well, it is a thread about Illusion and Empathy, and you didn't specify a different powerset, so it seems like a natural assumption to me, also. He probably got the level 10 character because you mentioned that as the level for the zone (since Hollows goes from about 5 to 15, if you mentioned a specific single level, it also seems reasonable to assume that there was a reason why you picked the number 10). All in all, it looks like they just wanted to have the exact details specified, perhaps for testing or bug reporting.

[Doomguide2005]

Coyote pretty much hit it on the head I was looking for greater clarity and since it is a thread about the OP's Empathy buffs I made the assumption you were on an Empathy character.  Thank you for going into more detail.  With what you provided I'd say that Aid Another isn't Empathy so while it may be evidence Aid Another causes aggro that doesn't necessarily mean Empathy's heals do.  And regardless of everything else those foes attacking a +42 lvl character 'a few moments' later is decidedly odd AI behavior.  

 

In any case I don't think the OP should have any concerns about drawing aggro with his heals.   

[Frostweaver]

I do not disagree, not unless his character is level 13 hopping around peregrine randomly healing poorly-built defenders who are fighting huge hordes of Nemesis and malta.

And yes, I said that from experience 🙂 tried it about half an hour ago. fully stealthed lowbie empath just for fits and giggles. The defender took off, and I was dead almost instantly.

Heals definitely cause minor aggro... I still don't know if they break stealth, but when you have aggro stealth is irrelevant anyway.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Frostweaver