Is anyone else a total slave to the thematic?

[DrInfernus]

I don’t know if it’s an OCD thing or what, but I have always found myself a complete slave to the thematic in CoX. 

 

Fire/Fire, ice/cold, elec/storm, archery/TA, ss/invul, that kind of thing. That very much extends to epic power pools too. I just couldn’t even fathom playing a non-thematic build, and I know because I’ve tried! 
 

Is anyone else like that or am I just one lonely loon in a prison of self-restraint? 

 

 

[Patti]

You're not alone, but ya'll crazy just the same.

[Bastille Boy]

I always want my characters to have a consistent origin story. If the origin story is non-magical, I won't use power pools that seem inherently magical to me (e.g. Sorcery, Flight, Dark Mastery, Earth Mastery). If the origin story is natural, I only take powersets and powers that have a conceivable (if strained) natural origin. For travel, that means super speed + combat jumping.

 

That said, sometimes a toon's powers don't have to have the same origin. Some powersets lend themselves to mixing and matching. The origin for Beam Rifle can easily be an afterthought tacked on to another story. "They tried using a beam rifle. Turns out they're a good shot." Empathy is also good for mixing and matching with other origin stories--though usually, the origin of superhuman empathy is more interesting than whatever created the character's other powers. The same goes for Willpower.

[Lost Deep]

I play thematic builds, but I build complex characters. For example, a Fire/reflexes scrapper who in story is a speedster with an outfit that channels friction heat into her attacks. Obviously, I often have to ignore animations to get this to flow, but it's my take on this same thing. The biggest impact for me is that this strongly influences what power pools I'm willing to take: Medicine on a Brute? Because their regenerative blood heals other people, too. A dominator without haste? Uh, no, she's a psion, not fast.

 

Though, a lot of this is a willingness to be fast and loose with the details. Radiation leaks could have similar effects to the Force of Will power pool, right? I have an odd take on this, but it's resulted in a lot of fun toons and some unique interactions.

[Menelruin]

1 hour ago, DrInfernus said:

I don’t know if it’s an OCD thing or what, but I have always found myself a complete slave to the thematic in CoX. 

 

Fire/Fire, ice/cold, elec/storm, archery/TA, ss/invul, that kind of thing. That very much extends to epic power pools too. I just couldn’t even fathom playing a non-thematic build, and I know because I’ve tried! 
 

Is anyone else like that or am I just one lonely loon in a prison of self-restraint? 

 

 

It me.  I just can't grok doing stuff like Beam Rifle with Tactical Arrow, etc.  It hurts my soul. 

 

This is also why I'd LOVE it if they filled in some more concept pools for different origins, like a Natural origin Control set, etc.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Menelruin

[Patti]

Turok, dinosaur hunter wants to speak to you.

[Blastit]

Lotta people care a whole lot about theme. Personally I figure that a sj/fire scrapper is still a fire-themed character. Super strength or simple weapons are pretty easy to slot under a particular theme. Plus it's easy enough to have a broad theme. A yeti-inspired tanker with snow-topped mountain powers could be ice, stone, invuln or willpower for a primary and then super strength, ice, stone, savage or mace (wooden club!) for a secondary. If your primary and secondary are lacking in ice or earth powers there's always the APPs.

[Blastit]

2 minutes ago, Patti said:

Turok, dinosaur hunter wants to speak to you.

Plus Rambo had a bow and a gun. If someone finds a beam gun and steals a modern competition bow to deliver more hand-made specialty munitions that's a pretty good start for a bank robber character. Not too far off from lower-rung Spider-Man villains.

 

 

Some power sets need a bit of a stretch to match but there's a lot you can do by simply taking a step back and thinking more conceptually.  A character with stone melee and electric armour could be powered by a high-tech nanomachine crystal infection, they could be possessed by a mountain-dwelling storm spirit or maybe they inherited mutant powers from both parents.

 

 

 

Mono-elemental characters are very clean and classic, though.

[Patti]

NEW FORUM GAME IDEA!  JUSTIFY THE POWER COMBOS!

[Naraka]

I tend to build characters around combos, themes or colors.  For example:

 

I was playing around with Psi Melee color and really liked the look of Mass Levitate colored bright white and blue.  As I started messing around with the other powers colored the same, I noticed how it looked a lot like wind or air and with some considerations of what I wanted to pair with it, I ended up creating a Cryokinesis/Ice Armor/Mako Stalker, the Cryokinesis being Psi Melee colored bright white and blue.  I conceptualized Boggle as using Snow blinding, creating tiny ice mirrors to focus light into a target's eyes and confusing them.  The rest of the set is pretty consistent, creating currents of super-chilled super-dense air to hammer, toss and hold foes with pressurized jets of cold air formed into blades and fists.

 

On the reverse end, I thrive on creating combos that are mismatch and coming up with concepts for them.  I don't think I could ever stomach being limited by conceptually thematic choices, especially when other sets fit better.  Anything fire likely benefits from mitigation which fire doesn't have.  Anything Ice likely benefits from offense since Ice tends to come with the holds/-rech.  I've been enjoying the pairing of Energy Melee and Dark Armor as pairing DA with DM seems rather bland to me but stacking stuns is a game in itself.

[RikOz]

I try to come up with plausible explanations for mixed powers:

 

AR/Elec sentinel: She's a mutant, but her electrical powers turned out to be strictly defensive in nature. She learned to shoot because, being very petite, she isn't suited to melee combat.

 

A Magic-origin Archery/Dark blaster: All of her "powers" come from her magical bow. Those powers allow her to manipulate darkness, but the bow grants no special archery skills. She has to practice with it as a mundane bow; that daily practice is what allows the bow build a connection with its wielder and grant darkness powers. This takes time to establish, and then requires maintenance. To anybody else randomly picking it up, it's just an ordinary bow. Even Manticore would see no benefit from it, unless he took full possession of it and used it all the time.

 

My lone superspeed character ... the super speed is actually her only "power". That obviously lends itself to Super Reflexes as her secondary. Her primary, Kinetic Melee, is actually her using her speed to physically compress air and slam it against her opponents at high velocity. Of course, that means her weakness would be finding herself in a vacuum.

 

I take Flight as the travel power for most of my characters; choosing Super Speed or Super Jumping only when it fits the particular character concept I'm going for. Then I come up with a reason for why the character can fly. In some cases, sure, it's an actual separate superpower. In other cases, the character has figured out how to manipulate their basic powerset to allow them to fly: my fire/fire blaster creates a localized convection current, my electric characters create an electromagnetic bubble around themselves, etc. Some, regardless of origin, use some tech solution. My head canon says that the FBSA takes a cue from the Legion of Superheroes and issues a "flight ring" (or maybe a belt) that grants flight to heroes who can't fly under their own power.

[Heraclea]

Many of my favorite characters and builds, from willpower/spines scrapper on Victory, to invuln/dark tanker, fire/dual blades brute, and ice/plants blaster on Torchbearer, seem completely contrary to purely thematic choices.  What I look for is synergy.  If the synergy flows out of unusual combinations so much the better. 

 

And oftentimes there is an odd lack of synergy between thematic combinations.  Dark Melee doesn't do much for Dark Armor, and benefits defense armors much more.  Super Strength doesn't shore up Invulnerability that much, Fire Melee doesn't patch up Fire Armor all that much, and so forth.  From their design, I think we were always intended to mix 'em up a bit. 

[TheOtherTed]

I guess I'm nearly the opposite of the OP.  I've tried to run power-themed characters, and with few exceptions, I just lose interest in them very quickly.  Had great character concepts (at least in my head brain mind thing) for a fire/fire scrapper, a martial arts/super reflexes stalker, an energy/energy blaster, and a few others, and while I had no real complaints about their effectiveness, I just lost interest pretty quickly.

 

Thus, most of my characters have had mixed powers.  That said, I've always had a soft spot for TA/archery defenders, and I'm currently running a dark/dark corruptor that I'm completely obsessed with.  But those are the only two lasting exceptions.

[ImpousVileTerror]

I try to stay on-theme generally, but I will often just up-and-use Temp Powers for the convenience with little justification.

But locking myself to just X/X, or Y/Y, or Z/Z?   GOODNESS ME, NO!

Z/Y, or X/Y, or D/S; doesn't matter, so long as it makes sense thematically.

[Peacemoon]

Yes, but that doesn’t mean I need to be Rad/Rad or Fire/Fire or Same/Same.

 

I had a concept of a flamethrower radiation guy and made my Rad/AR Defender. Flamethrower was his main attack for a long time, and it was so fun in teams. Gradually I loosened the concept a little so he picked up Snipe and Full Auto, but he’s still my Flamethrower guy.

So I wouldn’t say I’m a slave to concept. It has to be a good concept and fun gameplay combined, and I’ll fudge it a little around the edges.

 

Also I know he could have gone AR/ Blaster, but I enjoy support, and he can stands amongst the team with all Defender leadership buffs, and all that Rad/ debuffing goodness; and really he doesn’t need to do much else. Of course he took the Fire epic pool and now flings Char in their faces too, and he’s developed into a great character even solo, but it started from a simple concept. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Peacemoon

[MTeague]

2 hours ago, Menelruin said:

It me.  I just can't grok doing stuff like Beam Rifle with Tactical Arrow, etc.  It hurts my soul. 

 

This is also why I'd LOVE it if they filled in some more concept pools for different origins, like a Natural origin Control set, etc.

Mind Control could be a candidate for Natural, depending how you think of psionics.  Plant Control could be Natural, if your character is not entirely human to begin with, etc.

 

Still, I hear you.  Most Control powersets are not really plausible for a truly Ordinary Average Guy.  

I can only make a Controller or Dominator work as Natural if theyr'e inhuman to begin with. 

 

OTOH, I dont know.  If they actually made a Gadget Control with Flashbang Grenades for Stun, Curare Darts for Hold, Sleep Gas grenades for a Sleep, etc, then that would start to be next to impossible to justify that as working with Mutant ....

[Menelruin]

12 minutes ago, MTeague said:

Mind Control could be a candidate for Natural, depending how you think of psionics.  Plant Control could be Natural, if your character is not entirely human to begin with, etc.

 

Still, I hear you.  Most Control powersets are not really plausible for a truly Ordinary Average Guy.  

I can only make a Controller or Dominator work as Natural if theyr'e inhuman to begin with. 

 

OTOH, I dont know.  If they actually made a Gadget Control with Flashbang Grenades for Stun, Curare Darts for Hold, Sleep Gas grenades for a Sleep, etc, then that would start to be next to impossible to justify that as working with Mutant ....

They had some ideas for a riot suppression rifle that would have worked well.  Mostly took the various specialty grenades, like you said.  

 

Munitions

You possess a highly tactical rifle designed for riot suppression and crowd control, possessing a variety of functions and special payloads.

 

 - Electrified Net Launcher: Reworked version of 'Electrified Net Arrow' from Trick Archery

 

 - Cryo Freeze Ray: Taken from Munitions Mastery.

 

 - Wide Area Web Grenade: Taken from Arachnos Solider.

 

 - Flashbang Grenade: Taken from PPD SWAT.

 

 - Sleep Grenade: Taken from Munitions Mastery.

 

 - Rubber Bullets: Reworked version of 'Heavy Burst' from Arachnos Soldier. This power is a low smashing DoT cone with a disorient effect.

 

 - N2 Cannon: Taken from Crey Scientists

 

 - Tear Gas: Taken from PPD SWAT.

 

 - Gun Drone: Taken from Devices.

 

 

[MTeague]

3 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

They had some ideas for a riot suppression rifle that would have worked well.  Mostly took the various specialty grenades, like you said.  

I'm familiar with the thread and the proposed set.  

 I just think it creates the same problem in the opposite direction.  How does that work for anything but Tech or Natural?

 

OTOH, well.... if the existing sets already heavily favor Magic/Mutant/Science, particularly with some of the pets like Jack Frost and Fire Imps....  perhaps it's time for some sets that feel more like Natural and Tech, and are much harder to justify for Magic/Mutant/Science.

[Peacemoon]

3 minutes ago, MTeague said:

I'm familiar with the thread and the proposed set.  

 I just think it creates the same problem in the opposite direction.  How does that work for anything but Tech or Natural?

 

OTOH, well.... if the existing sets already heavily favor Magic/Mutant/Science, particularly with some of the pets like Jack Frost and Fire Imps....  perhaps it's time for some sets that feel more like Natural and Tech, and are much harder to justify for Magic/Mutant/Science.

To be honest you’ve touched on something that would be nice. Being able to choose different pet types. People often complain about Dark Control’s wolf, but what if Fire Imps or Jack Frost could have tech version?

 

Dark Servant, Phantom Army, Animate Stone already allow some customisation like this.

[Heraclea]

Whenever I make a Broadsword or Katana or War Mace character I am always drawn to a Technology origin.  All of those things are technology. 

[Menelruin]

I guess Robots would be Golems or Constructs, then?

[Blastit]

41 minutes ago, MTeague said:

Mind Control could be a candidate for Natural, depending how you think of psionics.  Plant Control could be Natural, if your character is not entirely human to begin with, etc.

 

Still, I hear you.  Most Control powersets are not really plausible for a truly Ordinary Average Guy.  

I can only make a Controller or Dominator work as Natural if theyr'e inhuman to begin with. 

 

OTOH, I dont know.  If they actually made a Gadget Control with Flashbang Grenades for Stun, Curare Darts for Hold, Sleep Gas grenades for a Sleep, etc, then that would start to be next to impossible to justify that as working with Mutant ....

Your origin doesn't have to explain all your powers. Maybe a born mutant was experimented upon and either injected with serums or augmented with cybernetics. Maybe a weak wizard decided to pick up gadgeteering to supplement their spells. Maybe someone who already had strong powers picked up little tricks here and there over their career as they worked with other heroes from wildly different origins. Is Spider-Man any less of an iconic science-hero because he builds little gadgets to help him? Would Doctor Strange be less of a sorcerer if he kicked a dude in the dick?

[ImpousVileTerror]

Answer to your last question, @Blastit:   Yes.

[Alchemystic]

57 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

They had some ideas for a riot suppression rifle that would have worked well.  Mostly took the various specialty grenades, like you said.  

 

51 minutes ago, MTeague said:

I'm familiar with the thread and the proposed set.  

 I just think it creates the same problem in the opposite direction.  How does that work for anything but Tech or Natural?

 

OTOH, well.... if the existing sets already heavily favor Magic/Mutant/Science, particularly with some of the pets like Jack Frost and Fire Imps....  perhaps it's time for some sets that feel more like Natural and Tech, and are much harder to justify for Magic/Mutant/Science.

 

I think if you guys were looking for something a lot more natural for a control set, Trickery is one of the less tech-intensive sets I came up with.
 

 

Trickery

You are capable of employing tricks and traps in order to control your foes, subduing and misdirecting them with ease.

 

 - Immobilizing Dart: Taken from Ninja Training, this power works nicely as the immobilize power.

 

 - Choking Powder: Taken from Ninja Training, this power works nicely as the hold power.

 

 - Poison Caltrops: A modified version of Caltrops, this power has a chance to immobilize any enemy entering its patch.

 

 - Blinding Powder: Taken from Ninja Training, this power is a nice combination of debuff and confuse.

 

 - Smoke Flash: Taken from Ninja Training, however this ability grants stealth afterwards that lasts until your first hostile action just like 'Placate'.

 

 - Pyrotechnics: A modified version of the 'Firebomb' ability above, which instead deals low damage and stuns enemies, with an added FX similar to the 'Fireworks' aura.

 

 - Blast Shuriken: A modified version of Exploding Shuriken, which deals low smashing damage, but has a high chance to knockback and lower defense.

 

 - Choking Trap: A modified version of Poison Trap, which instead only has a chance to hold. The animation is the 'choke' hold instead of the 'vomit' hold.

 

 - Enenra: Pets are hard, but I think if there is a chance of creating a similar entity to 'Haunts' or 'Unseelies', though instead using the Toxic Vapor and Smoke auras as its main body. It would have access to the 'Char', 'Smoke' and 'Cinders' powers from Fire Control, as well as the Demonling/Hellfire Gargoyle version of 'Corruption'.

[Blastit]

I reject any notion of a magic-user who would not kick a man in the vulnerables if need be.