Ill/ Dark or Ill/ Rad? Which is better for solo play

[Rebel230]

I know /rad is popular, but what about/ dark? You get very similar debuffs, etc plus you get the dark servant which paired with phantasm seems like a pretty strong combo for soloing? My current is ill/storm and i really struggle when solo at 31. Its frustrating.

[Shirokiel]

Both are super fun and viable. I would say that Ill/Rad has a slight advantage against AVs compared to Ill/Dark. I would give both a try and decide what you enjoy most.

[Mikazuki]

Illusion is quite simple really.

 

You have amazing pets that can't be buffed and deal illusory damage which gets healed if the target lasts long enough.

 

So you want a debuffer that will make things take a lot more damage so they can die fast so your damage wont be healed.

 

There is no contest really, while dark has -some- -def and -res debuffs they pale in comparison to rad's. Dark is mostly focused on -acc and -dmg, and that doesnt really help you much since your pets are invulnerable.

 

Go forth and melt faces.

[srmalloy]

Dark is mostly focused on -acc and -dmg, and that doesnt really help you much since your pets are invulnerable.

 

Phantom Army is invulnerable; unless it's been changed, Phantasm can be damaged like all the other Controller level-32 pets.

[Riverdusk]

Illusion is quite simple really.

 

You have amazing pets that can't be buffed and deal illusory damage which gets healed if the target lasts long enough.

 

So you want a debuffer that will make things take a lot more damage so they can die fast so your damage wont be healed.

 

There is no contest really, while dark has -some- -def and -res debuffs they pale in comparison to rad's. Dark is mostly focused on -acc and -dmg, and that doesnt really help you much since your pets are invulnerable.

 

Go forth and melt faces.

 

Not sure what you mean by this.  One, dark doesn't have any -defense at all actually.  So, not accurate, and that actually is a point in radiation's favor.  Then again usually by end game, against most mobs, hitting  isn't that much of an issue. 

 

Second, dark's -res debuffs pale in comparison to rads?  Radiation's available -resistance is enervating field which gives -22.5%.  Dark's is tar patch which gives -30%.  Not only does dark's not "pale in comparison", dark's is actually superior.  You could argue that tar patch isn't available as much, but +recharge is such a priority for most illusion controllers, it is up for use very quickly.

Rad's toggles themselves can be a pain to use on illusion since it has no aoe immobilize so you can have issues with toggles running off or things not sticking together.

 

Now, it may be argued that AM's +20% damage boost makes up for dark's better -res, but then again, that doesn't help phantom army which is a big part of your damage.

 

Back to dark, dark servant, while it doesn't do a lot of damage, does some.  It also throws immobilizes out there quite a lot, which helps set up containment and keeps things from running off, something illusion can have more difficulty with since illusion doesn't have immobilizes of its own.

 

Now, while being leveled up, generally I'd say rad is probably just a bit faster and dark is safer and more controllery.  But honestly the sets are very comparable in effectiveness in the end IMHO.  The biggest advantage rad has is simply the +30 recharge you get from AM which makes perma phantom army easier/cheaper.  But it is still possible to reach perma army eventually with dark as well.

 

 

 

 

[Mikazuki]

Sorry i was running from memory and didnt check numbers one by one, lets go into detail then:

 

Things that Rads have that help you do more damage or hit more often:

 

Radiation Infection(-Def)

Enervating Field(-Res)

 

Things that Darks have that help you do more damage or hit more often:

 

Tar Patch(-Res)

 

 

 

Radiation Infection provides -25% Defense, can be enhanced to -40% with SOs, has a recharge of 8 seconds and is a toggle, so can be heavy on edurance.

 

Enervating Field provides -22.5% resistance, -res cannot be enhanced, recharge of 8 seconds.

 

Both of the above powers used to be cancelled as soon as the target it was toggled on died, now it stays until the corpse despawns, which in most cases is enough to kill anything else that is around them.

 

 

Tar Patch provides -30% res, -res cannot be enhanced, has a cooldown of 90 seconds and lasts for 45, recharge can be reduced to 46 seconds with 3 recharge SOs.

 

 

Now let's take a look at the other powers, Excluding everything that buffs you and your team:

 

Dark has:

 

Darknest night (-dmg and -to hit)

 

Howling twilight(cant remember if you can use this without a dead target, but i'll leave it here anyway, 30 second regeneration shutdown plus 2/3 mag stun/fear. 3 minute cooldown)

 

Soul Absorption( -to hit)

 

Black hole(panic button)

 

Dark Servant ( Extra pet)

 

 

Rad has:

 

Lingering radiation( 30 second regeneration shutdown, 1m 30s cooldown)

 

Choking cloud ( 2/1 mag AoE hold toggle )

 

EM Pulse ( 3 mag hold, 15s regeneration shutdown, some damage against machines)

 

 

extra mention for rad:

 

Fallout (Requires a dead target, doesnt see much use outside of iTrials and some AV fights, or sketchy farm groups -  -24% defense and -37.5% res aoe around the dead body)

 

Accelerate Metabolism( As previously mentioned, helps you get perma phantom army, extra 30% recharge rate for yourself)

 

 

 

[Mjolnerd]

I don't have enough experience with Ill/Rad to properly compare the two options here, but I did run a mostly-solo level 50 Ill/Dark back on Virtue, and from what I remember, it was fantastic for soloing... past about level 30 or so. Before that was pretty painful, but there was a point where it all sort of "clicked" and suddenly everything was very smooth and a lot of fun. I may not have been soloing AVs like you hear about /rads doing, but it was quite solid for everyday mission play and the occasional task force with friends.

[Riverdusk]

Good summary Mikazuki.  I think the main issue is I very much disagree with your assertion that "there is no contest" between the two.  Personally I think it is a very close contest.  We can agree to disagree there.  And yes, whichever set, go forth and melt faces.

[Riverdusk]

I don't have enough experience with Ill/Rad to properly compare the two options here, but I did run a mostly-solo level 50 Ill/Dark back on Virtue, and from what I remember, it was fantastic for soloing... past about level 30 or so. Before that was pretty painful, but there was a point where it all sort of "clicked" and suddenly everything was very smooth and a lot of fun. I may not have been soloing AVs like you hear about /rads doing, but it was quite solid for everyday mission play and the occasional task force with friends.

 

Once you get enough recharge to get at least close to perma army and can spam howling twilight (and of course twilight grasp) a ton, AV's are easy for illusion/dark.  I even solo'd Kraken and Jurassik.  Ran out of time with the game shutting down before I got to really try any other GM's.

[Mikazuki]

Good summary Mikazuki.  I think the main issue is I very much disagree with your assertion that "there is no contest" between the two.  Personally I think it is a very close contest.  We can agree to disagree there.  And yes, whichever set, go forth and melt faces.

 

I'll admit my bias, i'm not that big of a fan of dark myself so memory kinda diminished it for me.

 

But yeah both can work, the two of them together in a team would be even better.

 

 

[Sovera]

Why not Ill/Time? It doesn't really help to kill faster, but while we can't buff PA we can do it on the phantasm with Temporal Selection, and Chrono Shift is a substantial recharge reduction for a set that is seeking perma PA in the first place.

 

If we're talking soloing AVs what beats /traps anyway? That -1000% regen is unmatched, and then it has -20% defense and res in acid mortar.

[Mikazuki]

Time can work but it takes a lot more work and the early levels will be a major pain.

 

The -res debuff is Slowed response, gives -25/20% res and -22.50/27% defense which on paper sounds good, but is on a 1m 30s cooldown and lasts 30 seconds, making it perma would require some external global cooldown reductions. And the worst point it here is that you only get it at lv35, as opposed to lv2 for dark and 2/10 for rad.

 

Chrono shift can help with your phantom army recharge and also your slowed response recharge, but its on a 6 minute cooldown and the recharge buff lasts for 1m 30s, which can be a bit better than accelerate metabolism as its on a shorter cooldown and gives 50% recharge vs AM's 30%. But... you only get it at lv38 vs lv4 for AM.

 

Can work, but not as friendly.

[Dixa]

Math was done on the old forums here.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20120906060446/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=290578&page=2

 

ill/dark is harder and more expensive to get PA perma, but when you do it's superior to ill/rad for both av/gm killing, group killing and group play.

[Astredax]

Something I haven't noticed anyone else point out is that the pet from dark affinity can actually help plug one of Illusion's greatest holes: it can use an AoE immobilize that will let you proc containment AoEs. 

 

At the low end, /dark is worse than /rad, but at the high end and fully kitted out, dark is better.