Dps Meters/Heal meters

[Divine]

Will this ever be a possibility?

[brian9824]

Will this ever be a possibility?

 

I don't really ever see those as being useful as both of those metrics are very narrow.

 

DPS with the amount of AoE and effects isn't really something that's consistent or easy to calculate.  Situational powers, buffs, debuffs, etc effect it drastically.

 

Likewise healing is such a narrow definition and wouldn't take into account increasing defense, regeneration, resists, etc. 

 

Neither of those two numbers has any applicable value in being displayed, as they don't give you any actionable information. 

[Primantis]

I just can't wait to see the following in LFG Chat;

 

"ITF LFM! Must have 20k DPS in order to join! PST with build and link to DPS metrics"

 

 

[Alux]

......."ITF LFM! Must have 20k DPS in order to join! PST with build and link to DPS metrics"

 

 

 

Pls no WoWification for CoH...

[Adeon Hawkwood]

I just can't wait to see the following in LFG Chat;

 

"ITF LFM! Must have 20k DPS in order to join! PST with build and link to DPS metrics"

But it's great, it immediately tells you which ITF you don't want to join. It's like when you see groups advertising for a healer, you know that groups a shit show so you can avoid them.

[Rylas]

Will this ever be a possibility?

 

I don't really ever see those as being useful as both of those metrics are very narrow.

 

DPS with the amount of AoE and effects isn't really something that's consistent or easy to calculate.  Situational powers, buffs, debuffs, etc effect it drastically.

 

Likewise healing is such a narrow definition and wouldn't take into account increasing defense, regeneration, resists, etc. 

 

Neither of those two numbers has any applicable value in being displayed, as they don't give you any actionable information.

 

Then there's the question of how long a period of time is this tracking? What happens when you step out of a mission or zone? What time frame would this need to be limited to when calculating the DPS? I mean, what's the S in DPS??

[Adeon Hawkwood]

Then there's the question of how long a period of time is this tracking? What happens when you step out of a mission or zone? What time frame would this need to be limited to when calculating the DPS? I mean, what's the S in DPS??

Actually this one is answerable. For Scrappers the standard DPS measurement was the pylon test, how long does it take to solo kill a Rikti Pylon.

[Rylas]

Then there's the question of how long a period of time is this tracking? What happens when you step out of a mission or zone? What time frame would this need to be limited to when calculating the DPS? I mean, what's the S in DPS??

Actually this one is answerable. For Scrappers the standard DPS measurement was the pylon test, how long does it take to solo kill a Rikti Pylon.

 

That's a pretty skewed answer, but perhaps that's your point.

[Prototelis]

There are more than few ways to define DPS.

 

It would be helpful to identify/define those and give them terms like;

 

Theoretical maximum DPS - Not including endurance drain, assuming all procs fire at every interval, all attacks chained in the most efficient order, and including damage buffs.

Average DPS - Not including endurance drain, Calculating the average benefit of all procs combined including change to fire, and all attacks being chained in the most efficient order.

Burst DPS - The maximum possible DPS of a single attack

Proc burst DPS - Maximum possible DPS of a single attack assuming all procs applicable fire

Sustained DPS - Maximum DPS calculation that takes into account "crashing." Not totally relevent at high level play, but very relevant at low level play especially on builds that have a lot of toggles/end drain issues.

 

 

Thats just an example, there are def more and more variables can be included.

 

I also don't feel like this should be an engine or game feature, it should be a feature developed in a separate more modern hero building app. Putting it in the game proper encourages more min/maxing and in a way can discourage creative thought.

[brian9824]

There are more than few ways to define DPS.

 

It would be helpful to identify/define those and give them terms like;

 

Theoretical maximum DPS - Not including endurance drain, assuming all procs fire at every interval, all attacks chained in the most efficient order, and including damage buffs.

Average DPS - Not including endurance drain, Calculating the average benefit of all procs combined including change to fire, and all attacks being chained in the most efficient order.

Burst DPS - The maximum possible DPS of a single attack

Proc burst DPS - Maximum possible DPS of a single attack assuming all procs applicable fire

Sustained DPS - Maximum DPS calculation that takes into account "crashing." Not totally relevent at high level play, but very relevant at low level play especially on builds that have a lot of toggles/end drain issues.

 

 

Thats just an example, there are def more and more variables can be included.

 

I also don't feel like this should be an engine or game feature, it should be a feature developed in a separate more modern hero building app. Putting it in the game proper encourages more min/maxing and in a way can discourage creative thought.

 

That's the problem though, dps is variable and based off a thousand different things.  I mean there single target and aoe builds.  There are builds that do s/l damage so what enemies are you fighting?  There are builds whose attacks or powers have secondary benefits, and so on. 

 

Like as a crab soldier how are you factoring the extra 21% defense I add to team, as well as damage and leadership buffs on top of my dps?

 

Trying to quantify the value just doesn't work as too many factors come into play

[Adeon Hawkwood]

That's the problem though, dps is variable and based off a thousand different things.  I mean there single target and aoe builds.  There are builds that do s/l damage so what enemies are you fighting?  There are builds whose attacks or powers have secondary benefits, and so on. 

 

Like as a crab soldier how are you factoring the extra 21% defense I add to team, as well as damage and leadership buffs on top of my dps?

 

Trying to quantify the value just doesn't work as too many factors come into play

That is correct. However, the question was "how do you quantify DPS" which Prototelis was attempting to answer. There are plenty of metrics you can use to quantify DPS, the Pylon method I mentioned above being one, the training dummies in the RWZ being another. There are a number of variables but you can control for those and have a standardized DPS spec, that's no problem. These aren't going to accurately reflect how much damage you do in a real fight but they do provide a metric that can be used to compare different builds in standardized circumstances if that's what you're into.

 

So you're correct that DPS doesn't matter and there's no use for a DPS meter in game but that's not the question that was being answered.

[Mikazuki]

Regardless of being worthwhile or not, it is quite possible to make something like this if someone is willing.

 

All combat information is instantly logged to a log file if you have the option selected, wont even need to scan the game's memory.

 

ACT provides a good framework for it if anyone with the appropriate knowledge feels like investing their time into a CoH plugin:

 

https://advancedcombattracker.com/

[Prototelis]

That's the problem though, dps is variable and based off a thousand different things.  I mean there single target and aoe builds.  There are builds that do s/l damage so what enemies are you fighting?  There are builds whose attacks or powers have secondary benefits, and so on. 

 

Like as a crab soldier how are you factoring the extra 21% defense I add to team, as well as damage and leadership buffs on top of my dps?

 

Trying to quantify the value just doesn't work as too many factors come into play

That is correct. However, the question was "how do you quantify DPS" which Prototelis was attempting to answer. There are plenty of metrics you can use to quantify DPS, the Pylon method I mentioned above being one, the training dummies in the RWZ being another. There are a number of variables but you can control for those and have a standardized DPS spec, that's no problem. These aren't going to accurately reflect how much damage you do in a real fight but they do provide a metric that can be used to compare different builds in standardized circumstances if that's what you're into.

 

So you're correct that DPS doesn't matter and there's no use for a DPS meter in game but that's not the question that was being answered.

 

Correct.

 

Another game I play, Mechwarrior Online, has mechanics that also affect DPS. Which is why we use a few different terms to describe types of DPS such as;

 

Burst DPS; DPS of a set of weapons firing one time. Lasers have duration and deliver damage in "ticks." Some auto cannons deliver damage in burst. Theres also a mechanic called "ghost heat" that will cause certain groups of weapons to generate more heat when fired together.

Sustained DPS; Every weapon generates heat, and the amount of heatsinks you have determine how quickly heat dissipates. So this calculation takes that mechanic into account.

Damage per heat; The amount of damage a weapon can do per point of heat it generates

 

 

Those are just examples of how DPS can be calculated in a lot of different ways in another game.

 

It isn't uncommon in other games to identify different types of DPS and come up with terms to describe them.

[Solvernia]

Healing is the objectively weakest form of support. What would be the purpose of knowing how much weak support you are performing?

[Zep]

I had a dps meter in the old days. It might have been ATC, I remember a fussy set up.

 

I rarely spoke to other people about my own numbers, just used it to test this vs that for myself and keep track of buffs and stuff. Total 'kills' er arrest was fun too. (for me anyways).

[Nic Mercy]

Healing is the objectively weakest form of support. What would be the purpose of knowing how much weak support you are performing?

 

Agreed. I still twitch when I see calls or advertisements for "healers" in chat channels >_<  Healing is probably the least valuable contribution a character can make to their team. Even an Empathy Defender provides far more support by keeping a well slotted Fortitude rolling on their team, applying Regeneration and Recovery Auras as often as possible, and applying Adrenalin Boost to characters at opportune times. The restoration of hit points is the filler in between... if its even necessary. If all you do is spam Healing Aura, you're doing it wrong imo.