Make Snipes Actually Instant Like They Used to be

[Biosphere]

Edit: I created a strawpoll for people to add their opinion. I also added some of my gifs to this main post to accurately describe the suggestion and poll topic. More in depth discussion in the thread.

 

http://www.strawpoll.me/20524970

 

Ever since the new changes where if you're in combat and snipe is instant cast (or if you have the new snipe enhancement) it doesn't actually fire instantly. In the past when we had the to-hit necessary to make that work the snipes would fire with hardly any animation and recover quick. Now it's like you still have to play out the animation but it just skips the wind up.

 

I'd like it to go back to how it was before, make the animation fire instantly. I don't mind all the other rulings where if you're in combat it's automatically instant or the new set, I just want the animation to work how it did before.

 

Visual Representation of the difference

 

      Old Snipe (instant damage)            New Snipe (delayed damage)

 

 

Thanks.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Biosphere

[macskull]

I don't think the animations changed when fast snipe changed. They were all 1.33s (some were 1.67s I think?) and they're still all 1.33s/1.67s.

[JayboH]

The one that comes to mind is actually sniper rifle from assault rifle.  Seems to take a good while to fire, but this is working as intended as far as I know.

[Greycat]

I honestly kind of wish I could choose to disable fast snipe all together, but I'm fairly sure I'm in the minority there. 

[nihilii]

4 hours ago, macskull said:

I don't think the animations changed when fast snipe changed. They were all 1.33s (some were 1.67s I think?) and they're still all 1.33s/1.67s.

I believe a couple specific snipes had much faster animations, possibly in the 0.5s - 0.67s range, and they got normalized to 1.33s or 1.67s. Perhaps this is what OP refers to?

[kiramon]

Am

7 hours ago, JayboH said:

The one that comes to mind is actually sniper rifle from assault rifle.  Seems to take a good while to fire, but this is working as intended as far as I know.

Yeah this one has a huge delay. Proton volley feels slow too to actually fire the first orb.

[Captain Powerhouse]

Of the top of my head, only two snipes were faster than they are now: Psionic and Ninja Assaults. Both these were 1 second in fast mode.

 

All other are exactly as fast/slow as they always were. The sequencers were just unfinished and the beams/projectiles would fire damage before the animation would actually fully execute, and arms would do jerky movements, then stand there with arms slowly going back into position for 1.33 to 1.66 seconds.

 

No snipe was ever less than a second. AR fast animation was set to 1.5 second internal cast time as part of the fast-snipe implementation by the live team before the game shut down.

[Biosphere]

Using zapp as an example here's how fast the snipe used to fire.

 

 

This is how it fires now.

 

 

There's a delay before it shoots. Like instead of firing from the hip he has to aim first. That's what I'm saying.

[golstat2003]

2 hours ago, Biosphere said:

Using zapp as an example here's how fast the snipe used to fire.

 

 

This is how it fires now.

 

 

There's a delay before it shoots. Like instead of firing from the hip he has to aim first. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah that seems more like a bug related to the animation itself, then an intentional change.

[Biosphere]

Here's another example.

 

 

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Biosphere said:

Here's another example.

 

 

I had noticed the same thing back when it was changed, I just assumed it was intentional though.

[Biosphere]

7 hours ago, Solarverse said:

I had noticed the same thing back when it was changed, I just assumed it was intentional though.

 

Whether or not it was intentional my suggestion is to put it back how it was. I think the attack firing fast like it used to is better than this new delayed shot especially for a mechanic which says your snipe is supposed to activate quickly.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Biosphere

[Omega-202]

9 hours ago, Biosphere said:

Here's another example.

 

 

In both comparisons, you use Aim before the old one.  For the sake of parity, what does it look like if you pop Aim before the snipe now?  Is it possible that the Aim animation (which in my experience is interruptible shortly after popping it) is masking the animation in the old version?  

[ImpousVileTerror]

Also . . . what's with the jumping at the end of the attacks?

[Biosphere]

6 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

In both comparisons, you use Aim before the old one.  For the sake of parity, what does it look like if you pop Aim before the snipe now?  Is it possible that the Aim animation (which in my experience is interruptible shortly after popping it) is masking the animation in the old version?  

 

I didn't use Aim I was popping yellow inspirations. This is what it looks like.

 

 

There's still a delay.

 

3 minutes ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

Also . . . what's with the jumping at the end of the attacks?

 

That was just a way for me to know when the animation actually ended and when player control was returned. 

[Omega-202]

Very odd.  I had never noticed the difference.  If anything, the old animation looks unintentionally short and jarring.  I wonder if it was bugged in some way.  

 

EDIT: just saw Powerhouse's comment.  If that's true, its all just a cosmetic thing and when used as part of a chain, the end result is the same.  The animation was just badly sequenced.  If you look at the "new" versions in the comparison gifs, the damage numbers pop "early" compared to the actual impact.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Omega-202

[Biosphere]

17 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

Very odd.  I had never noticed the difference.  If anything, the old animation looks unintentionally short and jarring.  I wonder if it was bugged in some way.  

 

EDIT: just saw Powerhouse's comment.  If that's true, its all just a cosmetic thing and when used as part of a chain, the end result is the same.  The animation was just badly sequenced.  If you look at the "new" versions in the comparison gifs, the damage numbers pop "early" compared to the actual impact.

 

This can't be just cosmetic, I can show the difference if you snip frames.

 

This is how quick the damage hits on the old snipe. It happens even before the character has lined their arm up for the shot, but you can see the electricity.

 

 

 

This is how long it takes before damage number pops up on the new snipe.

 

 

You can see power is activated. If this was cosmetic our new snipe would have the damage showing just like the top screenshot.

 

 

Here's the windup, damage still hasn't hit yet.

 

 

Damage is finally triggered after time has passed from clicking the power to entering the shooting animation.

 

23 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Of the top of my head, only two snipes were faster than they are now: Psionic and Ninja Assaults. Both these were 1 second in fast mode.

 

All other are exactly as fast/slow as they always were. The sequencers were just unfinished and the beams/projectiles would fire damage before the animation would actually fully execute, and arms would do jerky movements, then stand there with arms slowly going back into position for 1.33 to 1.66 seconds.

 

No snipe was ever less than a second. AR fast animation was set to 1.5 second internal cast time as part of the fast-snipe implementation by the live team before the game shut down.

 

This is what Powerhouse is referring to, but I think this is worse. I like the snipe hitting with its damage faster than this new delay. That's the point I'm making. If there needs to be some kind of check that the animation has actually begun, even if it's just on the first frame of bringing the hand in, then that's fine. But I liked the fast damage and I would like it back.

[Captain Powerhouse]

It isn't purely cosmetic only in the part that the damage and beam were moved from frame zero to frame 28 (for the case of electricity.) Either way, both animations always had 40 rooting frames in them.

 

Only two snipes ever worked correctly (and didn't need to be changed) when skipping the interrupt window were Sniper Rifle and Blazing Bolt.

[Omega-202]

1 minute ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

It isn't purely cosmetic only in the part that the damage and beam were moved from frame zero to frame 28 (for the case of electricity.) Either way, both animations always had 40 frames in them.

 

Only two snipes ever worked correctly (and didn't need to be changed) when skipping the interrupt window were Sniper Rifle and Blazing Bolt.

Ok, so the first part of my earlier statement below is wrong, but the second part is correct?  Yeah, you might finish off an enemy a fraction of a second earlier, with the old timing, but in the grand scheme there's no difference in DPA as a whole.  

 

"If that's true, its all just a cosmetic thing and when used as part of a chain, the end result is the same."

 

[Solarverse]

Okay, so I get what everyone is saying about the mechanics and honestly I suspected as much...however, that doesn't exactly answer what the OP is asking for when you get down to the core of what they are asking. The OP wants to know if we can have an instant snipe that is actually instant like it was when it was bugged.

Me personally, I don't care either way. I don't think it's a make or break deal, but I wouldn't complain if it were made instant and fired from the hip either...like a quick draw gunslinger, lol.

[Biosphere]

36 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

Ok, so the first part of my earlier statement below is wrong, but the second part is correct?  Yeah, you might finish off an enemy a fraction of a second earlier, with the old timing, but in the grand scheme there's no difference in DPA as a whole.  

 

"If that's true, its all just a cosmetic thing and when used as part of a chain, the end result is the same."

 

 

Just now, Solarverse said:

Okay, so I get what everyone is saying about the mechanics and honestly I suspected as much...however, that doesn't exactly answer what the OP is asking for when you get down to the core of what they are asking. The OP wants to know if we can have an instant snipe that is actually instant like it was when it was bugged.

Me personally, I don't care either way. I don't think it's a make or break deal, but I wouldn't complain if it were made instant and fired from the hip either...like a quick draw gunslinger, lol.

 

Yes and I'm asking for this because it's not just about DPA. It's about burst too.

 

Here's a situation where it matters. Let's say you have an enemy that has some move they're going to pop like MoG or PFF or Hibernate. With the old instant damage you could bypass that if you were good enough. Here's an example where using old snipe I burst down an enemy in the AE which only has Hibernate and Wet Ice, and Wet Ice is only there to prevent it from being KBed by TK Blast so it will have every chance to use Hibernate at the fastest speed.

 

 

Now this is the exact same setup but I delay it by a very small amount like how it would work with our new snipe.

 

 

The enemy can't be bursted down anymore, it will get Hibernate to activate. I can't stop this when I used to be able to. 

[ScarySai]

Assault rifle's snipe was definitely instant, it was actually funny because it was such good DPA that AR was actually top single target for a little bit, there.

 

I'd be for the snipes being actually instant again, but if it doesn't happen I won't lose any sleep over it.

[Biosphere]

36 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Assault rifle's snipe was definitely instant, it was actually funny because it was such good DPA that AR was actually top single target for a little bit, there.

 

I'd be for the snipes being actually instant again, but if it doesn't happen I won't lose any sleep over it.

 

I realized I could make a strawpoll. I'll add it as a link in this post and then edit the first one too.

 

http://www.strawpoll.me/20524970

Edited July 6, 2020 by Biosphere

[Chronicler J]

I see no issue with making the functionality proper.

[Biosphere]

19 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

It isn't purely cosmetic only in the part that the damage and beam were moved from frame zero to frame 28 (for the case of electricity.) Either way, both animations always had 40 rooting frames in them.

 

Only two snipes ever worked correctly (and didn't need to be changed) when skipping the interrupt window were Sniper Rifle and Blazing Bolt.

 

The strawpoll has been up almost a day and we have a 62% in favor of making the damage instant on snipes again with 21 votes.

 

Can we have a statement on whether or not this change would be implemented?