Show possible outcomes when converting.

[Neogumbercules]

In Diablo 3 you have an NPC called the Artisan who can take one of your items and re-roll a stat on it to something else. I took a screenshot below. You can see if I press the little question mark icon that pop-out on the right tells me the possible outcomes of my re-roll. It's still totally random, it's just informing me what I could get.

 

 

Since the outcome of what IOs will convert into depends on their level and what category or rarity you are converting by, I feel like it would be a nice feature to show me all of the possible outcomes. It could be a list that shows each possible Set it could convert into, and then there's a submenu when you click on that which shows what enhancements within that set you could receive.

[ninja surprise]

It would be cool, but I think the lists would be huge. Some would be anyway.  Air Burst often won't let me convert it to anything.

[Greycat]

It's random. I mean, if you did that with "in set conversion," it'd be a short list - the rest of the set. "Same rarity" and "same type?" Huge lists.

 

 

[Vanden]

That sounds like it would run into the issue the auction house has, where it can’t be used outside of public zones because of some database download thing I don’t fully understand; basically, a map instance has to download a whole thing the first time any player opens the auction house in it. Once it’s downloaded, though, it’s good to go for any player that wants it in the future. This is fine for any map instance that’s essentially permanent like city zones, but allowing it in zones that get closed after use like mission maps or bases would tank the servers, so the /ah command is disallowed there. My point is, convert previews might run into the same issue, so converting might become only possible in public zones.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Vanden

[Troo]

um, maybe we need to go back over how convertors work?

 

Convert "to a random enhancement from the same set, the same rarity, or the same "category" that the enhancement came from."

Available Conversions:

	Convert within Set (3 Converters)	Convert within Rarity (1 Converter)	Convert within Category (2 Converters)
Set IO	Any IO within its Set other than itself	Any other Set IO of same Rarity other than its own Set	Any other IO with its Category regardless of Rarity.
Purple IO	Any Purple within its Set other than itself	Any other Purple except one from its own Set	N/A
PvP IO	Any PvP within its Set other than itself	Any other PvP except one from its own Set	N/A
SBE	Any SBE within its Set other than itself	Any other SBE except one from its own Set	N/A
ATE	Any ATE within its Set other than itself	Any other ATE except one from its own Set	N/A
Superior ATE	Any Superior ATE within its Set other than itself	Any other Superior ATE except one from its own Set	N/A

 

..well here's a link to the rest:

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Enhancement_Converter_Salvage

 

@Neogumbercules, if you are confused, definitely follow the link.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Troo

[Eclipse.]

On 7/7/2020 at 9:44 AM, Vanden said:

That sounds like it would run into the issue the auction house has, where it can’t be used outside of public zones because of some database download thing I don’t fully understand

It should be small enough and not need live/updated data from the DB to be performed, basically just a static data and a pivot table. How it ended up actaully being implemented is a different matter entirely.

That said from a display standpoint I think in "worst" case scenario -- level 25 uncommon in-rarity conversion -- you're looking at nearly 25 Sets before going into a per-enhancement breakout? That's going to be hard to fit appropriately for most screen sizes unless a scrolling mechanism is intruduced, the text is tiny, or there is a farther breakout (Types > Sets > specific enhancement)

Edited July 8, 2020 by Eclipse.

[Chance Jackson]

I think this is a great idea for example if doing a "same rarity" conversion it should show all eligible sets given the lvl of the IO being converted ditto for "same category"; obviously wouldn't be needed for same set conversions

[MTeague]

I sorta get it, in that there's a LOT of enhancement categories, and a LOT of sets in each category, and that's quite a bit of information to memorize exactly which sets span which level ranges. 

 

• It could be frustrating to keep converting a lvl 20 Serendipity piece, fishing for a Luck of the Gambler, wasting converters and not realizing it's flat impossible because LotG is lvl 25 minimum. (slottable at 22, but the IO's themselves have a mnimum numeric level of 25).
• It could be frustrating to keep converting a lvl 35 Lockdown piece, fishing for a Basilisks Gaze piece, wasting converters and not realizing it's flat imposible because Basilisks Gaze caps at lvl 30. 
• It could be frustrating trying to turn a Winter's Gift Univesal Travel piece into a Blister Cold, only realize you wasted all the converters because despite the name, Winter's Gift is NOT actually a Lords-of-Winter set.

So some kind of reference tab?  yea, I could see that being nice.  But there's SO MANY combinations, I don't think you could really get them all nicely on screen. 

[Zeraphia]

2 hours ago, Neogumbercules said:

In Diablo 3 you have an NPC called the Artisan who can take one of your items and re-roll a stat on it to something else. I took a screenshot below. You can see if I press the little question mark icon that pop-out on the right tells me the possible outcomes of my re-roll. It's still totally random, it's just informing me what I could get.

 

 

Since the outcome of what IOs will convert into depends on their level and what category or rarity you are converting by, I feel like it would be a nice feature to show me all of the possible outcomes. It could be a list that shows each possible Set it could convert into, and then there's a submenu when you click on that which shows what enhancements within that set you could receive.

From someone who indefinitely favors D2 > D3 I will surprisingly agree with you this is one of the few instances I actually believe D3 did something "right" over D2. In D2 compiling all the info to make an informed decision about cubing was a pain, honestly who knows if there aren't special hidden cube recipes we still don't know about. 

 

As it relates to CoH, I think they were created for a different distinct purpose in D3. CoH literally changes the entire enhancement from one specific IO to another totally different IO, in D3, you're normally rerolling the item's values (it would be as if you're rerolling LotG for a higher defense/end value rather than converting it to Red Fortune). There are only two Kanai Cube recipes that truly convert an item in D3 into another totally different item and that is the Convert Set Item (CSI) and Upgrade Rare Item (URI) categories which I don't believe they display entire lists for all the legendaries/set items that could be rolled from URI. However, on this note, CoH is definitely not D3, it does not contain hundreds if not thousands of uncommon/rare/very rare/PvP possibilities from a single categorical conversion unlike D3's URI, therefore I can see this being a feasible feature.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Zeraphia

[Troo]

While there are some situations that are 1:1 most are not.

It would be a lot of work to do well. It's not that the idea is bad. It's that the effort to implement and trouble shoot would outweigh the benefit. Especially when the information is already readily available.

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Enhancement_Sets

Edited July 7, 2020 by Troo

[AboveTheChemist]

This might be implementable as a pop menu, but as stated earlier in the thread, with all the potential possibilities it would take some effort to keep it all on the screen.

 

I took the wiki enhancement sets page and made a 2-page (printable front-back) quick reference guide (attached) that more or less serves the same purpose in an accessible format. I keep it handy when I am converting to make sure I don't chase my tail. It's only got set and PvP IOs but I imagine that covers most folks needs.

 

conversion_tables_update_Jan2022.pdf

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by AboveTheChemist
updated PDF

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 7/7/2020 at 12:06 PM, ninja surprise said:

It would be cool, but I think the lists would be huge. Some would be anyway.  Air Burst often won't let me convert it to anything.

FYI, this is because Air Burst is the only IO in its category (Targeted AoE) from levels 10-19, so if you are converting by category you will be out of luck.  Javelin Volley and Frozen Blast are available at levels 10-19, but are not in the same pool (PvP and Winter respectively).

 

What's more interesting (I know, low bar, right?) is that sometimes you can convert attuned Air Bursts by category and sometimes you can't.  This is because an attuned has a random level assigned to it that you cannot see, and you can only convert it to something else in the level range.

[Yomo Kimyata]

To OP, when I'm in doubt I use this:  https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Enhancement_Sets

 

[MTeague]

14 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

What's more interesting (I know, low bar, right?) is that sometimes you can convert attuned Air Bursts by category and sometimes you can't.  This is because an attuned has a random level assigned to it that you cannot see, and you can only convert it to something else in the level range.

Actually I find that very interesting.  I had assumed, but not really tested, that an Attuned IO could randomly become any other IO that overlapped any part of it's range.

 

So that a Attuned Shield Breaker Acc/DefDebuff (1-30 range) could not immediately become a Sting of the Manticore piece (lvl 35+). 

But I thought it you converted it to say, an Attuned Positron's Blast piece, THAT piece, could then in theory become Sting of the Manticore.

Or does the hidden/assigned level get re-assigned after each successful convert of an attuned piece?

[Yomo Kimyata]

9 minutes ago, MTeague said:

 

Or does the hidden/assigned level get re-assigned after each successful convert of an attuned piece?

This.

 

EDIT:  An attuned Shield Breaker A/Def Deb (only level 10-30, not 1-30) will have a level assigned to it.  If that level is 10-19, then it cannot become a Positron Blast, but if the level is, say, 25, then you can roll that.  Now the Positron's Blast has a new random level assigned to it that is in the 20-50 range.  If that level is 35+ is could potentially become a Sting of the Manticore, that would have a new random level assigned to it from 35-50.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Yomo Kimyata

[SurfD]

10 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

This.

 

EDIT:  An attuned Shield Breaker A/Def Deb (only level 10-30, not 1-30) will have a level assigned to it.  If that level is 10-19, then it cannot become a Positron Blast, but if the level is, say, 25, then you can roll that.  Now the Positron's Blast has a new random level assigned to it that is in the 20-50 range.  If that level is 35+ is could potentially become a Sting of the Manticore, that would have a new random level assigned to it from 35-50.

regarding "attuned" enhancement, I always assumed they converted based on the level of the character using them.  An attuned enhancement is always the same level as the character holding it, so if the enhancement only exists in, say, the level 10-30 range, then if the character converting it is level 20, it converts as if it was a level 20 enhancement.  If the character is level 33, it converts as a level 30 enhancement.   Attempting to treat them any other way would basically be crazy.

[plainguy]

I like the idea but I also see the issues with it.

DISCLAIMER

For me always in the back of my mind this is nothing but a test by Cryptic and the Devs.. 
I feel that if Cryptic likes what the Devs are doing here they will consider reopening up shop on the game as there is no game out here again like this one..  Champions came in strong but fizzled out.. 

Thus this is why the Devs are very big on keeping to the game ideas etc and not doing anything sloppy. I mean its free to play.. They get nothing out of it beyond donations.. I get completely and respect they want to do good work because they simply want to do good work.. 

I mean running a MMO server and such is a extremely GREAT resume builder for anyone involved..  
I wish I had the skills. 

That being said..

 

I think anything to bring the game into 2020 with new concepts is a great idea.. 

Again I think AH and its conception was good back then.. But today it should be revamped..

 

I always felt powers sets should be power sets and between changing color and where powers originate from via the costume builder was the way to go.  

Maybe have IO unlocks for different powers.. EG  like rocket boots or winged boots were back in the day.. 

 

WOW has has changed their AH interface and cleaned up a lot of the clutter and confusion. 

 

[AboveTheChemist]

On 7/7/2020 at 2:39 PM, AboveTheChemist said:

This might be implementable as a pop menu

When I posted that, I almost added a parenthetical note saying 'but not by me!', and perhaps I should have. I might need to have my head examined for even considering it, but the challenge was too tempting. Attached is a popmenu that details the conversion possibilities for all the enhancements shown on the enhancement sets page. It's a bit hefty (for a popmenu) at nearly 68 MB and a little over 2.25 million lines, and at least on my system there is a brief (1 second or so) hiccup when I click the macro to open the menu. I've trimmed it down further to just under 13 MB and about 430,000 lines, although there is still a very slight stutter when it opens. At one point last night it was almost 1GB and over 32 million lines but I tried to cut redundancy as much as possible, and I'm pleased with how it turned out.

 

To use it, unzip the attached zip file and place the .mnu file it contains in: <your game install>/data/texts/<your game language>/menus

In-game, the menu can be spawned either from a keybind or a macro:

 

/bind <your preferred key> popmenu ConvPoss

/macro <your macro abbreviation> popmenu ConvPoss

 

The macro abbreviation can be something like 'CP' or whatever you prefer. I highly recommend spawning it from the left side of the screen, because as you can see in the attached screenshot, it will extend almost completely across the width of the screen. I spot checked quite a few conversion paths for errors, but my search was not exhaustive. If you notice any issues please let me know. Also, I didn't notice any performance issues other than the brief stutter I mentioned, and while it is a large menu, I've used larger menus without issue.

 

Edit: I made a slight tweak. I thought it was a bit redundant showing possibilities for every enhancement within a set, especially since the 'By Category' and "By Rarity' possibilities are identical for enhancements within a set. So, I dropped that submenu and now it shows the options by Set, Category, and Rarity for each set, rather than for each enhancement in each set. I added a note (by way of a title) in the 'By Set' menu to remind the user to exclude the origin enhancement from the possible options when converting by set. Otherwise, it is unchanged, and that shaved about 55 MB off the file size, down to a more reasonable 13 MB. The screenshot now shows an example of 'By Set' options, as well as an example of 'By Category'.

 

 

 

This mod is now available at the following link:

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/34310-conversion-possibilities-and-rare-roulette-quick-reference-popmenus/

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by AboveTheChemist
updated preview image and provided link for new thread

[tidge]

The list of possibilities is really too large to do much than clutter. I consider even having to see 5 other possibilities in a set to be clutter... and that is something that can be seen by clicking on the piece in your inventory (or in AH entry). If a player insists on it, just implement @AboveTheChemistpopmenu as shown above.

 

If a player has a particular 'hope' for a conversion of a particular level piece, they should consult the wiki page for enhancement sets. This should help avoid disappointment.

 

If a player is trying to get into a a specific market niche via converting, I feel like the obligation is on them to study the market using both in-game resources (market transactions) and external resources (level ranges of pieces). I don't know why we'd ask the devs to implement something for this reason.

[Six-Six]

I like it as it is. I treat it like a mini game of slot machine. quite relaxing 😃

[Zepp]

On 7/8/2020 at 1:53 AM, MTeague said:

I sorta get it, in that there's a LOT of enhancement categories, and a LOT of sets in each category, and that's quite a bit of information to memorize exactly which sets span which level ranges. 

 

• It could be frustrating to keep converting a lvl 20 Serendipity piece, fishing for a Luck of the Gambler, wasting converters and not realizing it's flat impossible because LotG is lvl 25 minimum. (slottable at 22, but the IO's themselves have a mnimum numeric level of 25).
• It could be frustrating to keep converting a lvl 35 Lockdown piece, fishing for a Basilisks Gaze piece, wasting converters and not realizing it's flat imposible because Basilisks Gaze caps at lvl 30. 
• It could be frustrating trying to turn a Winter's Gift Univesal Travel piece into a Blister Cold, only realize you wasted all the converters because despite the name, Winter's Gift is NOT actually a Lords-of-Winter set.

So some kind of reference tab?  yea, I could see that being nice.  But there's SO MANY combinations, I don't think you could really get them all nicely on screen. 

This is mainly an issue with level-specific IOs, but it is more of an issue for Defense Debuffs (which will either be Exploited Vulnerability/Achilles Heel or Undermined Defenses/Touch of Lady Gray (no overlap, so even if you are using Attuned enhancements)).
You can find that information in the enhancement descriptions, so if you are aiming for something, hit up /ah and check the item description for the minimum level-3 and maximum level.

[Neogumbercules]

13 hours ago, AboveTheChemist said:

When I posted that, I almost added a parenthetical note saying 'but not by me!', and perhaps I should have. I might need to have my head examined for even considering it, but the challenge was too tempting. Attached is a popmenu that details the conversion possibilities for all the enhancements shown on the enhancement sets page. It's a bit hefty (for a popmenu) at nearly 68 MB and a little over 2.25 million lines, and at least on my system there is a brief (1 second or so) hiccup when I click the macro to open the menu. At one point last night it was almost 1GB and over 32 million lines but I tried to cut redundancy as much as possible, and I'm pleased with how it turned out.

 

To use it, unzip the attached zip file and place the .mnu file it contains in: <your game install>/data/texts/<your game language>/menus

In-game, the menu can be spawned either from a keybind or a macro:

 

/bind <your preferred key> popmenu ConvPoss

/macro <your macro abbreviation> popmenu ConvPoss

 

The macro abbreviation can be something like 'CP' or whatever you prefer. I highly recommend spawning it from the left side of the screen, because as you can see in the attached screenshot, it will extend almost completely across the width of the screen. I spot checked quite a few conversion paths for errors, but my search was not exhaustive. If you notice any issues please let me know. Also, I didn't notice any performance issues other than the 1 second hiccup I mentioned, but as noted it's a large file so your experience may be different.

ConvPoss.zip 2.37 MB · 0 downloads

This is ridiculous. And awesome. Thanks. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 7/9/2020 at 12:32 AM, SurfD said:

regarding "attuned" enhancement, I always assumed they converted based on the level of the character using them.  An attuned enhancement is always the same level as the character holding it, so if the enhancement only exists in, say, the level 10-30 range, then if the character converting it is level 20, it converts as if it was a level 20 enhancement.  If the character is level 33, it converts as a level 30 enhancement.   Attempting to treat them any other way would basically be crazy.

It's a logical assumption, but a false one.  You can easily test this, as I just did, with a lvl 30 character.  I bought an attuned Siphon Insight (I actually bought a bunch just in case I proved myself wrong!).  If your conjecture were true, then you would be able to convert it by type to a Cloud Senses, since the only level where they overlap is 30.  I tried that and it failed, since the random generator didn't assign 30 as the level.  If I kept it up, I presume that sooner or later I would get the luck of the draw and be able to convert, but a single false is enough to disprove your theory.  So it basically is crazy!

[AboveTheChemist]

For the few who may actually use the menu, I have updated the conversion possibilities menu. I added the new i27p3 enhancements and cleaned up a few other things. If anyone notices any issues please let me know.

 

Edit: Updated Dec 11, 2021 to account for the fact that the 'Running' category and 'Running & Sprints' category are considered the same category for conversion purposes. Same with 'Leaping' and 'Leaping & Sprints'.

 

Edit: Updated Feb 6, 2022: I've added a Rare Roulette quick reference menu, and started a dedicated thread for this mod. You can now find the mod at the link below. Any future updates will be noted in that thread.

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/34310-conversion-possibilities-and-rare-roulette-quick-reference-popmenus/

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by AboveTheChemist
updated for link to new thread