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Techwright

Kinetics: Increased Density

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Having played my fire/kin controller very casually to 50 utilizing standard crafted fare, I'm now in learning mode to improve him by using sets.  What fire/kin builds I've been able to find surprised me with how they're treating Increased Density.  On several builds, it is non-existent.  On the remaining builds, it is either a 1 or 2 slot power.   From far back in the original game, I'd been told that a good fire/kin should hit his teammates both with Speed Boost and Increased Density as a defensive boost.  As a result, I should triple slot I.D. for damage resistance, and add a slot for endurance reduction.  These builds I'm reading seem to fly in the face of that teaching.  Was I misinformed, or perhaps, since I left the game a couple of years before it's end, was there a change that negated that mindthink? And what is probably the best way to look at it now?

 

As a side note, I'd love to see more fire/kin builds to study.  I'm not looking to solo, exactly, I'm looking more towards a build that can lay waste to the end game content while still having the tools to support my team.  

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E/D provides Resistance to Slash and Energy damage. Not bad but there are more important things to be worried about, usually.

 

I'd slot it as a mule. Gladiator Armor +3% or Steadfast Protection +3%.

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Posted (edited)

  

24 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

I'd slot it as a mule. Gladiator Armor +3% or Steadfast Protection +3%.

 

Because many people build for the softcaps on Def and Res themselves and almost everyone runs Maneuvers if they can, ID isn't as useful.  I completely agree with oedipus, it is a great slot mule and teams will still appreciate you putting it on the team.  But really I'd consider it more a utility knife is situations that you know Holds, Immobs and Disorients will be happening from the enemies and you should be casting it to free your teammates instead of pre-applying it on everyone.  I wouldn't sweat if you forget about it though.  

Speed Boost is a lot more common a buff that people are going to want from you, and with Null the Gull able to make the changes to it individually for each player, it is their own fault if they aren't happy with Speed Boost. I want to note that in Speed Boost I only slot a single EndMod IO at +5.

Edited by Dahle
Added Speed Boost slotting...

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From what I remember ID has a short (1 min?) duration so it's more practical for breaking mezzes and hitting whoever is eating an alpha just before the alpha. The only time I would try to really keep it on the team was if we were low level and facing ruin mages - the AoE KD they do (earthquake?) can really screw up a low-level team w/o KB protection yet. But that's very niche; most of the time I'd treat it like clear mind and just throw if someone was mezzed. Note: the mezz protection only hits the individual you target whereas the S/E resist hits the whole team.

 

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It's a good place for a steadfast proc which brings it up to 21% resist to smashing and lethal, at the ED cap you are looking at about 29%. Is that 8% worth additional slots? It really depends on your build priorities, sometimes chasing set bonuses means you have to make compromises here and there. You don't need end redux anymore because SB and ID are now area buffs and also you have transference.

 

Most fire/kins trollers I've seen play like derpy lol melee ATs, mass immob -> FS -> fireball because that what fire/kin farm builds did. If you are planning to be more team oriented you have to shift your mindset.

 

Here are some team oriented fire/kin tips:

 

SB and ID towards the end of a combat engagement so that the team is ready to go for the next engagement, even easier if your target a mob that's aggroed on to a teammate and apply those buffs through the mob.

 

Sometimes for your own survival AoE is bad, stick to char for the harder targets and focus on support and let your teammates handle the fodder, take this advice to heart especially during lower level content where you don't have all your defenses and your are controls are not as effective. There are lowbie - mid level teams that do +2 or + 3 content and if you play like a noob fire/kin prepare to win noob prizes.

 

If a teammate is in trouble select the teammate and fire off transfusion, works best on melee ATs since they are most likely targeting something next to them.

 

The aggro monkeys are not necessary when you team, you got 7 other aggro monkeys that do a better job (maybe, can't trust the lol melee types though). When the lol melee runs ahead and leave the bosses behind, that's when you summon the aggro monkeys to do their job for them.

 

There are lots of ways to build a fire/kin. Most go with a defense epic so they can get S/L defense among other types/positional so they can stay in melee and take advantage of FS. I think you can do just as well taking a resist epic and building for ranged defense, because things in melee range are going to get locked/burned down. So here is a semi-budget example of that. Mezzes is your biggest weakness so I took rune of protection and clarion.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(3), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(3), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(5)
Level 1: Transfusion -- TchoftheN-Acc/Heal(A), ThfofEss-Acc/Heal(11), TchoftheN-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), TchoftheN-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(17), ThfofEss-Heal/Rchg(21)
Level 2: Fire Cages -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(5), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(7), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(9)
Level 4: Mystic Flight -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(11)
Level 8: Arcane Bolt -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(43), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 10: Siphon Speed -- PcnoftheT-Acc/Slow(A), PcnoftheT-Dmg/Slow(40), PcnoftheT-Acc/EndRdx(40), PcnoftheT-Rng/Slow(50), PcnoftheT-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(50), PcnoftheT--Rchg%(50)
Level 12: Flashfire -- Stp-Acc/Rchg(A), Stp-EndRdx/Stun(13), Stp-Acc/EndRdx(13), Stp-Stun/Rng(15), Stp-Acc/Stun/Rchg(15)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Increase Density -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 18: Cinders -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(19), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(19), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(21)
Level 20: Speed Boost -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(23), ShlWal-Def(23), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(25)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(27), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 26: Bonfire -- SuddAcc--KB/+KD(A), FrcFdb-Rechg%(39)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(29), Rct-Def/EndRdx(29), Rct-ResDam%(31)
Level 30: Hot Feet -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(31), ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg(34), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), ScrDrv-Dam%(39)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(33), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(34), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(34)
Level 35: Transference -- PreOptmz-Acc/Rech(A), PreOptmz-EndMod/End(36), PreOptmz-EndMod/Rech(36), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/End(36), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/Rech(37), PreOptmz-EndMod/End/Rech(37)
Level 38: Fulcrum Shift -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(39)
Level 41: Dark Embrace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(42), UnbGrd-Max HP%(42)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(45), Artl-Dam/Rech(45), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(45), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(46), Artl-End/Rech/Rng(46)
Level 47: Rune of Protection -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(48), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(48), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Siphon Power -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 50: Vigor Core Paragon
Level 50: Clarion Core Epiphany
Level 50: Support Core Embodiment
------------

 

 

 

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Liberty, Torchbearer, Excelsior, Everlasting

Jezebel Delias

Level 50 Fire/Elec/Mace Blaster

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1 hour ago, Techwright said:

Was I misinformed, or perhaps, since I left the game

You were not misinformed and are doing just fine.

I think you'll find that most builds folks put out are for level 50 plus where they might be shooting for bonuses that require tighter builds and to be honest, many players think of buffing teammate secondarily to what they wanna do.

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18 minutes ago, Troo said:

You were not misinformed and are doing just fine.

I think you'll find that most builds folks put out are for level 50 plus where they might be shooting for bonuses that require tighter builds and to be honest, many players think of buffing teammate secondarily to what they wanna do.

This is true.  And for us Controllers, at level 50 you are really just trying to make the tiniest impact.  

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6 hours ago, Dahle said:

This is true.  And for us Controllers, at level 50 you are really just trying to make the tiniest impact.  

And to be even more thorough almost everyone is trying to make an impact.  Stuff just dies fast and actually knowing who did what is nearly impossible.  And doubly so knowing if your debuff or support power is what made the difference in whether another teammate does their thing successful ... flash, boom, bang all dead, next!!

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1 minute ago, Doomguide2005 said:

And to be even more thorough almost everyone is trying to make an impact.  Stuff just dies fast and actually knowing who did what is nearly impossible.  And doubly so knowing if your debuff or support power is what made the difference in whether another teammate does their thing successful ... flash, boom, bang all dead, next!!

Yeah, pretty much can't even get a FS off because you don't get there quick enough.... 

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Almost all buffs at 50 run afoul of the problem that you don't know what your party actually needs - and the best buffs at low levels also happen to focus on the attributes that most players are likely to 'cap' at 50.

 

In general, Increase Density at 50 will have no meaningful impact on anyone with an armor set. It will also have limited impact on players without an armor set since they almost always build for defenses that match their playstyle that are more than sufficient to keep them alive. So at 50 it's mostly a power useful for throwing on pets and low level players in your group.

 

So for a non-Mastermind, I'd argue the main reason to take it would be for the slotting opportunities. At the very least, it's going to save you a slot for one of the resist uniques.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Troo said:

You were not misinformed and are doing just fine.

I think you'll find that most builds folks put out are for level 50 plus where they might be shooting for bonuses that require tighter builds and to be honest, many players think of buffing teammate secondarily to what they wanna do.

This is troo. 

 

Even my Pain only cares about keeping Painbringer on somebody - and usually just the little slacker whose end doesnt want to stay high. Ignore the rest of that "team" stuff XD

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