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11Troy11

Primaries Optimized for Stalkers

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On 7/27/2020 at 12:45 AM, 11Troy11 said:

Lastly, do you have any issues with damage considering how much smashing is supposed to be resisted?

The difference is a lot less than people think, over all. Occasionally, you've have to throw in an extra attack or retarget and take them down with your next AoE. It's not like you're coming up against enemies with 90% resists every other mission.


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On 7/26/2020 at 9:57 PM, Omega-202 said:

I think that both have their merits, and we can all just agree that Regen sucks and also needs to be nerfed again.

That made me LOL 🙂

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13 hours ago, Hjarki said:

The generic Stalker is essentially worthless on every fight until that final AV/GM.

God, you just can't stop being wrong, can you?  Every thread.  

 

So lets ignore the fact that there are solid, to very good AoE builds on Stalkers (Electric, Spines, Claws), or that there's solid options in the APPs and PPPs for extra AoE (Fireball, Ball Lightning).  Hell, my Stalkers has 4 AoEs and can nuke down a full 54 spawn to just bosses and badly hurt Lts in 3 clicks.  

 

Let's instead refute your point by looking at what the current endgame is made of: 

 

- ITF : Mission 1 is AoE heavy, so not great for Stalkers.  Mission 2 is great for Stalkers, burn down the crystals and let the team handle the adds; if you're speed running, screw the adds, just hit the crystal and bail.  Mission 3, the EB generals are single target objectives and there's just the two that you need to clear the spawn for; computer>single target; 2 AVs>single target, you dont need to kill anything else, Judgements mop up adds.  Final mission is just a single target AV fight and a victory lap mop up.  Stalkers are great in all but the first, easiest mission.

 

-Tin Mage: Mission 1 is War Walkers and Director 11, all single targets, everything else is ignorable.  Mission 2 is a mop up of Warworks, Stalkers are useful for finishing off the super tough Victorias that will not be AoEd to death; end of Mission 2 is Super WarWalker single target, the courtyard adds always get nuked by 3 Ions that inevitably get fired at once. Final mission: Neuron, Bobcat, 2 super Walkers, all single target AVs. 

 

-Apex: Mission 1, street sweep isn't great for Stalkers, but the Pylons are single target objectives and the adds are always ignored and the police station fight is mostly burning EB walkers.  Battle Maiden isn't ideal for any melee ATs, but Stalkers do better than most because they can burn her down faster than Scappers or Brutes due to their burst damage.  

 

-Liberty and Recluse TFs: AVs, AVs, more AVs and some more AVs.  

 

-Basically all of the Incarnate trials are AV and single target heavy.  Sure Stalkers are pretty terrible at certain parts (tower defense portion of hospital), but ever AT is bad at something.  

 

I can keep going, but suffice to say, you are wrong yet again on basic gameplay principles.  Tell us again how Invulnerability on Tanks doesn't have a taunt aura.  

Edited by Omega-202
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11 hours ago, Saikochoro said:

In fact, I find that most of the group uses their nuke or AoE and then immediately moves on to the next mob leaving the bosses and a few lieutenants behind as they don’t want to deal with them. Stalkers will kill these faster than anything except perhaps a blaster, but usually the blaster is already at the next mob waiting for it’s nuke to go on cooldown. 
 

Lastly, a lot of the game does revolve around killing EBs, AVs, and GMs. Stalkers are fantastic for these fights. 
 

I think most people are so focused on chasing AoE that when they do decide to fight the boss themselves they are unsatisfied with how much longer it takes to kill than nuking 8 minions. That’s why they leave it behind for others to fight.  Stalkers do single target best, and it is honestly an important role that a lot of people choose to ignore. 

I think Masterminds are probably the best 'Straggler killers'. However, Blasters, Corruptors and Dominators are all strong choices because they've got ranged attacks so they don't need to bother chasing enemies all over the place like Stalkers. My observation is that having effective ranged attacks on Stalkers eliminates most of that wasted time running around. Likewise, having AE attacks that can be used over a wide area rather than the Stalker's immediate vicinity means that they can hit a bunch of lieutenants/bosses at once for more than they could do with the same amount of time spent on single target attacks.

 

In terms of EB/AV/GM, most of the fight is actually solving the problem of not dying. Once you've solved that problem, you need a fairly low amount of dps to beat their regen and you'll win. The speed at which you win is generally irrelevant because the time spent fighting those EB/AV/GM is a tiny fraction of the time you spent chewing through endless trash on the way to them. Even then, the disparity between Stalker and another dps AT is almost meaningless compared to what your support AT bring to the table when you're talking about that final fight where the entire team/league is focused on a single target. A team of the right 8 Defenders will shred an EB/AV/GM faster than any set of 8 Stalkers/Blasters/Scrappers you can muster.

 

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1 hour ago, Hjarki said:

The speed at which you win is generally irrelevant because the time spent fighting those EB/AV/GM is a tiny fraction of the time you spent chewing through endless trash on the way to them. 

 

Please list endgame scenarios where this is true.  I listed the most commonly run endgame content and outlined that a solid amount of it is pretty evenly split between single target burns and trash clearing.  

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17 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

God, you just can't stop being wrong, can you?  Every thread.  

A good rule of thumb is when you see people start throwing around insults rather than engaging in reasonable debate, it's because they've realized they can't win on the merits of this argument. I think most reasonable people who look over the threads you've contributed to, keeping this rule in mind, will understand precisely where you're coming from.

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8 hours ago, Hjarki said:

A good rule of thumb is when you see people start throwing around insults rather than engaging in reasonable debate, it's because they've realized they can't win on the merits of this argument. I think most reasonable people who look over the threads you've contributed to, keeping this rule in mind, will understand precisely where you're coming from.

Most reasonable people disagree with you on the basic facts.  The whole Tank thread has basically shown you lost that argument and you're wrong here as well.    

 

Refute my points.  I have provided evidence that you are wrong about the uselessness of single-target focused Stalkers, and instead of refuting them, you have decided to just stomp off because I pointed out that you are constantly wrong?  

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I'm not sure I understand the argument that a Stalker must be AoE OR single-target.

All Stalkers are capable at single-target due to AS plus a fast heavy hitter, hopefully from Hidden status.

 

Not all Stalker builds are capable of good AoE, but there are a lot of sets and combinations that can pull out AoE that is very useful on teams. If you leverage PBAoE powers from a secondary that do a bit of damage (/Rad, /Bio), Shield, Fire, or mix any non-damaging secondary with a higher damage primary, and add in an APP, you can open every spawn with over 600 AoE damage. Heck, I have Stalker builds with close to 1000 AoE damage up for every spawn.

 

If you're making a Stalker who is ONLY single-target focused, then you are choosing to play a single target attacker, and that is fine with you. So you should be okay with only attacking LTs and above on teams. But if this is not fine with you, there are plenty of other build options, and you can make a Stalker who is not limited in target options although it does mean there is some limitation on powersets.

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1 hour ago, Coyote said:

I'm not sure I understand the argument that a Stalker must be AoE OR single-target.

Agreed.  Most Stalkers can be both.  The point was to refute the idea that "single target leaning Stalkers are only useful in AV fights and useless in all the trash leading to it".  

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On 7/26/2020 at 7:22 PM, 11Troy11 said:

A couple of people have advised me to not use Ninja Blade for my stalker because it loses an important power. That made me wonder if there are any primaries that are better than others in terms of being suited to a stalker.

 

Any ideas?

My original Stalker was Nin/Nin.  I remade him on HC....haven't had any gripes playing.

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