Where we at with Eviscerate?

[Neogumbercules]

My main back on live was Claws/Dark and I've been toying on and off with remaking him. Back in the day I definitely had Eviscerate but I'm not sure I want to take it now. The animation is long and just kind of feels weak.

 

That said, if the other claws players out here want to sing its praises I'll consider taking it. It's a spot for FF +Recharge and has a higher crit rate than the other attacks, but I enjoy the fast attack chain that I have already and Shockwave + Spin is already plenty of AOE. 

[Krazie Ivan]

imo, meh. i took it on a Claw/Inv, but as a Mule it never made it into my power tray. that's about it for modern set-IO builds, but i spose if someone wanted to run all SOs still, esp w/o Hasten, it'd need to be in rotation. modern high-recharge builds do better with just the high DPA attacks.

[Sir Myshkin]

I did a write up here that should answer your inquiry (click on "Sir Myshkin replied..." it'll take you right to the post).

Edit: Okay, so there's too much "spoiler" confined content on that page that it ends up shuffling the link to the bottom of the page when it loads (not what's intended to happen). I'll post the contents here:

 

This was the original questions:

"Why is SW more optimal than, say, Eviscerate? I understand that people hate the aesthetics of the animation (I am no fan of it myself) but is there another reason besides an aesthetic one that one would choose SW over Eviscerate? Is Eviscerate more of an End hog? Is it slower? I see some claws/sr people completely ignore it and I would have no problem doing the same if there was solid math behind that choice."

 

And this was the response that contains your answer:

 

Core concepts on creating an attack chain (AoE or ST, or a combo of both) is looking at what provides the most "Bang for Buck" (Damage for Cost/Cast), and repeating the best options as often as possible. Every attack has what is called a "DPA" or Damage Per Activation. This is the Dam / Cast = DPA.

• Shockwave has an "Arcana Time" (Cast+ServerTickDelay) of 1.188 and does a base 72.26 Damage, its DPA is 60.82.
• Eviscerate has an Arcana of 2.508, base of 143.2, DPA of 57.09.

Technically Eviscerate has a higher critical opportunity which makes is better exclusively on Scrappers over say Brutes or Tankers who don't get that function. Shockwave has an opportunity to Critical as well, but not as high as Eviscerate. From a Single-Target perspective it is reasonable to want to take Eviscerate, and it too can slot similarly between sets and procs (including a -Res proc which also happens to be -20% compared to the one Shockwave can slot at -12.5%). Now at this point Eviscerate is sounding pretty tasty, so why would I not take it, right?

 

Well the answer to that comes down to a handful of reasons that all pretty-much come down to the cast and function of the two powers:

• Shockwave is a long-reach cone that does KB (can convert to KD) and is surprisingly very strong for such an ability. Typically a cone/aoe would not have a DPA that makes it comparable (or potentially better) than a normal ST attack. It also has a very fast cast time (1.188 is very quick compared to many other attacks in the same set which are slightly, to significantly longer). Eviscerate may be able to tag in its short cone an extra 2-3 bodies if they're clumped well enough, but Shockwave can grab an entire spawn, and having that as an option in your main attack chain is very handy.
• Follow Up is the binding agent that makes Claws shine by giving it a significant damage and to-hit boost, plus the ability can stack ontop of itself. Typically a reasonable amount of recharge in a build can manage to effectively get this down to "2x", which means an effective attack cycle that happens within 5/s each go-around to keep up FU's 10/s duration stacked on itself after it gets rolling. In many cases of casual recharge another attack needs to fill the small remainder gap which is where something like Strike sometimes comes into play early on, or conveniently Shockwave after 32 that is a bit better. Eviscerate could be exchanged (potentially) for a couple of options, or just added in, but its cast time tends to force the "5/s" cycle off kilter, which isn't the best.
  • Typical go-to chain for Claws is FU > Focus > Slash (with slash having a -Res proc), but it requires an insane amount of recharge to get FU down to that <3/s recharge. A reason why this is so sought-after is the fact that FU > Focus > Slash ends up with a very tiny window where it triple stacks FU and allows just enough time to tag Focus with that 3x buff, making Focus hit incredibly hard.
  • An "easy" chain that works similarly is FU > Focus > Eviscerate (with -Res) which is a bit more forgiving on recharge and still fits (squeezes in at .1/s under 5/s). But a lot of practical testing tends to lean that an attack that starts growing beyond 2/s, especially 2.5+ is dramatically more damaging to consistency when it misses because of the amount of window it consumes to do its job. Focus has a DPA of 72.47 and an Arcana cast of 1.32, doubled up that is 144.94 and 2.64/s, Eviscerate is (as noted) 57.09 at 2.508. Even if Eviscerate critical for double value, it still isn't anywhere near just using Focus twice, so we really, really want to make Focus happen as much as possible, thus we stick with Slash (shorter cast, 'same' base DPA, net overall gain to DPS).
    • Keep this note strongly in mind on one reason why Eviscerate so commonly gets skipped. If Claws can do 144.94 base DPA with Focus in 2.6/s, if Eviscerate is being used, and it misses, not only are you missing out on the 57.09 DPA in that window, but the overall net loss of what could have been much much more. If one Focus were to miss, it's only 1.32/s of lost time, and can quickly be earned another chance after just a couple of seconds cool down. Fast, strong attacks are very forgiving to DPS when it comes to misses. Slow and heavy attacks are very damaging to DPS when they miss because they prevent better, optimal recovery.

A couple others mentioned the Endurance cost as a concerning factor, and to touch on that one reason Eviscerate isn't seen as a hungry ability is because, again, its cast time is so long. Our endurance is recovered at a base #.## "End Per Second" (server ticks apply to us and all too, but lets just go with it cause the math washes the same). Lets say you have a typical 3.00 EPS (nice round number). Shockwave with decent enhancement comes down to about 7.24 end, and casts in 1.188, that's kind of an expensive trade. Eviscerate (slotted the same exact way) comes down to 5.56, and casts 2.5, its cheaper, right? Well, technically not only is it cheaper, it's kind of "free" by consequence. If you recover 3.00 EPS, and it casts in 2.5/s, you're actually earning 7.5 total end during that cast cycle, meaning you actually gain almost 2 points of Endurance! Because of this, Eviscerate inclusive chains can feel a lot less stressful on the end bar.

 

 

Back to the original question. I did briefly mentioned that Strike was another common filler which can just as easily serve a purpose, fill the chain in the appropriate gap, and doesn't cost as much endurance to use, so why (other than its cone, we're only thinking ST after all, right?) would I take Shockwave if its going to burn me out? That answer comes down to that -Res proc I hinted at. Even at -12.5% (nearly half what we see in many others that do the same function), that proc is force-multiplying your entire attack chain's damage when it goes off, and it lasts for 10/s. Even if has a sporadic trigger and you only see it a couple times a minute, it is boosting your overall performance above what was possible supplementing with Strike. The rest of that comes down to finding some good end-management techniques (or Ageless Incarnate Destiny).

Edited July 31, 2020 by Sir Myshkin
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