MA/SR - Which is the best AT?

[Lockpick]

Ok, I just created a character named Kickman and was shocked the name was available.  My challenge is what AT to play.  I am planning MA/SR as I had one on Live, but not sure whether to make this character a Tanker (never played one to 50), Scrapper, or Stalker.  I've been playing more Stalkers on HC, but I am intrigued by the changes to Tanker.

 

Where does MA/SR perform best nowadays?

[Haijinx]

Scrapper

 

Dragon's Tail is necessary for a MA to be "best" 

 

I do have a 50+ MA Stalker but I re-rolled Street Justice.  

[Parabola]

Probably scrapper for me. I'm one of those that can't imagine playing a set that has no aoe at all so that rules out the stalker. And the main draw of MA on a tank is the +def bonus which you really don't need on SR, particularly at tank modifiers. You'd hit some very impressive numbers but ultimately it would be overkill.

[Saikochoro]

Scrapper is classic and will do more damage, but SR/MA tankers are insane. Incarnate level defenses. Capped resistances (when scaled). Super high recharge. You literally cannot die as a MA/SR tankers unless you are really trying to. Even then you might not.  Also, the damage is actually pretty decent, especially if you throw in a couple procs.  It’s also nice that eagles claws gives a damage bonus on tanks. 
 

My vote would be to go tanker. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Saikochoro

[Crater Kate]

15 hours ago, parabola said:

Probably scrapper for me. I'm one of those that can't imagine playing a set that has no aoe at all so that rules out the stalker. And the main draw of MA on a tank is the +def bonus which you really don't need on SR, particularly at tank modifiers. You'd hit some very impressive numbers but ultimately it would be overkill.

Not when you build for it, it wouldn't.

 

SR is an INCREDIBLE set on Tankers, and a big part of that is the sheer amount of freedom the set gives you on little investment. When you also have the Storm Kick +def, you can do some disgusting things on minimal investment, things that few other combos can even dream of.

 

For instance, if you so desired, you can build a Tanker that very blindly chases +Dam:

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Secondary Power Set: Martial Arts
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Experimentation
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- RedFrt-Def(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(3), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(3), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(45), RedFrt-EndRdx(46)
Level 1: Thunder Kick -- Mk'Bit-Dam%(A), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(13), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(17)
Level 2: Storm Kick -- OvrFrc-End/Rech(A), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg(17), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech(19), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(19), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(31), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- RedFrt-Def(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(9), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(11), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Rct-ResDam%(43), RedFrt-EndRdx(50)
Level 6: Practiced Brawler -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 10: Agile -- RedFrt-Def(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(34), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(34), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(45), RedFrt-EndRdx(48)
Level 12: Evasion -- RedFrt-Def(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(37), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(37), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(45), RedFrt-EndRdx(48)
Level 14: Speed of Sound -- Clr-Stlth(A), Clr-RunSpd(42)
Level 16: Dodge -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 18: Lucky -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 20: Dragon's Tail -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Arm-Dmg(21), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End(23), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(23), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(25)
Level 22: Crane Kick -- Mk'Bit-Dam%(A), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(25), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(27), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(29), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 24: Kick -- Mk'Bit-Dam%(A), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(46), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 26: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 28: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(36), UnbGrd-Max HP%(36)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31)
Level 32: Toxic Dart -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(33), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Apc-Dam%(34), GldJvl-Dam%(48)
Level 35: Crippling Axe Kick -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), Hct-Dmg(40), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(40), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Hct-Dam%(42)
Level 38: Focus Chi -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Adrenal Booster -- AdjTrg-Rchg(A), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Physical Perfection -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal(50), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), RgnTss-Regen+(5), Mrc-Rcvry+(5), Prv-Absorb%(7), Prv-Heal(7)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Rebirth Radial Epiphany 
------------

 

... running you a passive +56% damage, with Adrenal Booster and Focus Chi on top of it. Hasten is near perma, and with Storm Kick, you are still hitting incarnate softcap in defense and stacking decent resists behind it.

 

This is a VERY aggressive +dam chase on a first pass, and the end result is STILL decent at Tanking. Freedom is the name of the game here.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Crater Kate

[TheGentlemanGhostronaut]

Crater Kate, I've been following your build but I'm wondering why you don't have Warrior's Provokation in there, is there a particular reason?

[Crater Kate]

Hey @TheGentlemanGhostronaut, I saw your DM as well but I'll just reply publically for the sake of visibilty/clarification:

 

- First of all, that SR/MA build wasn't really meant as an endorsed build! It was meant to demonstrate that Tanker Super Reflexes is such a flexible set that you can do some very silly things with it while still staying very sturdy. Blindly chasing +Dam to the detriment of many other parts of the build qualifies as very silly to me, if I were building an SR/MA for real I would immediately look at the 3x2 Might of the Tanker slotting and the three powers devoted to getting Adrenal Booster and ask myself if those things were worth it, for a start. I don't want to stop you, if you feel like it's working then by all means go ahead, but just warning that it's not something I've rigorously tested or endorsed.

 

- To your question, the short version is that Taunt was skipped because it doesn't fit. The long version is that that particular build doesn't take Taunt because it was very specifically trying to hit as much of the +Dam modifier as physically possible while also keeping a level of durability that meets my standards on a quick pass. 8 powers in SR are mandatory, Tough and Weave are hard to compensate for (11 powers so far). Assault was mandatory for +Dam, and Adrenal Booster for the same reason (15 powers). Hasten (16) is another important one, and from my experience SR gets a ton out of Body/Energy, so that makes 18 mandatory powers for my goals. That means you have 6 powers to build an acceptable attack chain from. One of those powers must be Focus Chi (because we're chasing literally every point of +Dam we can), and the other 5 are either powers I must take (Thunder Kick), or are defining powers of the set. So to do what I set out to do, I needed all 24 slots. If you're not building mindlessly for +Dam, there's a lot of room that opens up. You can skip Assault, Focus Chi, Adrenal Booster and Toxic Dart, etc. But it didn't fit the exercise so it wasn't there 🙂 

 

- That being said, I play a lot of tankers and I rarely take Taunt. A lot of it comes down to space like I mentioned (If I had 25 powers, ALL my Tankers would have Taunt), but it's also down to playstyle and power selection. The way I play tanks is probably a little on the aggressive side. I value actually be able to kill things at a good rate, which means my power selection priority is a little different. Because I'm actively dealing damage a bit faster than other Tanks, I'm naturally drawing more aggro and I don't need Taunt as much. Don't get me wrong, Taunt is incredible! I definitely find myself in places where I wish I had it. But for what I value in play pattern and pace, Taunt often ends up being power number 25, which means I don't play with it. Tanks work without it!

[TheGentlemanGhostronaut]

Thank you for the reply!  It's a good job I haven't gotten to the point of slotting it with anything expensive!

 

I don't suppose you would be able to come up with a SR/MA build that I could follow?  I'd greatly appreciate it!

[@Ghost]

My very biased ranking would put it at Scrapper > Tank > Brute > Stalker.

 

On a Stalker, you lose the only AOE in MA, and the nature of their guaranteed criticals minimizes the impact of EC and SK having higher crit rates.

 

On a Brute, you do gain the benefit of SK granting defense, but you're also SR and the defense gets a little redundant unless you start building around it (and bonuses other than defense are harder to optimize.) This is even truer for a Tank since SR has even higher defense numbers, but a Tank does get more benefit out of EC's +dmg with their higher base numbers and larger radius on DT.

 

A Scrapper though gets the most out of the combination. SR is independently solid, and MA's increased crit chances interact nicely with EC and SK's boosts. With both superior ATOs slotted, putting the proc in EC gives your follow up attack a 99% chance to crit! Follow it with SK while the proc's still active for a 75% crit chance! Look stylish and never get hit!

 

I'd probably recommend MA and SR more on a Tank though, just not together. Pick up a resist set with MA and abuse the extra defense or try SR on something with a self heal.

[drgantz]

Is MA/SR good as a Brute?  Is it better as a Scrapper?

[Haijinx]

24 minutes ago, drgantz said:

Is MA/SR good as a Brute?  Is it better as a Scrapper?

If you plan on exemping a lot in the 15 to 30 level range brute is better due to the level progression for SR being different.  Due to the AOE toggle and taunt aura.

 

Otherwise Scrapper will probably outshine the brute due to higher damage and more than enough survivability.  

 

 

[Haijinx]

SR is very good on brutes though.  

 

My personal favorite SR brute was claws.

 

SS is good too since scrappers don't get that set.  But with the current Rage situation might be rough on SR brutes.