Question about damage shown on character planners for sentinels

[EnjoyTheJourney]

I put together a build for a dark melee / ninjitsu / soul scrapper and for a psychic blast / electric armor / soul sentinel. In the character planners the damage estimates provided for particular attacks were so different that I wanted to check in with this forum about whether there was a display error of some kind. Here are two key examples of slotting choices / skills:

 

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Scrapper ...

 

Dark melee:

Shadow maul, 3.07 seconds animation, 876.2 damage (slotting = 5 armageddon, except not damage / recharge, and 1 FotG -res proc)

Midnight grasp, 2.07 seconds animation, 1063.8 damage, slotting = superior scrapper's strike, 6 pieces

 

Incarnates are musculature core paragon, assault core embodiment, and degenerative radial interface

 

Sentinel ...

 

Psychic blast: Psychic wail (nuke), 1.97 seconds animation, 505.9 damage, (slotting = 5 armageddon, except not damage, and 1 FotG -res proc)

Soul mastery: Midnight grasp, 2.07 seconds animation, 521.4 damage, (slotting = 5 hecatomb, except not damage / recharge, and 1 Mako's lethal damage proc)

 

Incarnates are musculature core paragon, assault core embodiment, and degenerative radial interface

 

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Although shadow maul only hits 5 targets and has a 50% longer animation, it's listed as doing 60% more damage and it's also available every 2.43 seconds, in contrast to a cooldown for the psy blast sentinel's nuke that is about 10 times longer. And, although the midnight grasp slotting choices are not carbon copies of each other across these two ATs, the scrapper still does 60% more damage with the same attack skill. Comparing other skills leads to other clearly observable and very large damage differences. 

 

Is the character planner in error, or is damage that different across these ATs? If it is, then how might one bridge the power gap between these characters? Is there something else that I'm missing? 

 

The sentinel build is given below, for reference, in case anybody would like to look at it: 

Spoiler

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Spiritmage: Level 50 Magic Sentinel
Primary Power Set: Psychic Blast
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Telekinetic Blast -- SprOppStr-Rchg/+Opportunity(A), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg(7), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(11)
Level 1: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(3), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(5)
Level 2: Charged Shield -- DctWnd-Heal(A), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx(45), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(46)
Level 4: Conductive Shield -- Ags-Psi/Status(A), Ags-ResDam(5), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(7), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(29)
Level 6: Will Domination -- SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprSntWar-Dmg/Rchg(13), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprSntWar-Rchg/+Absorb(45)
Level 8: Psychic Focus -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Energize -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(17), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(17), Prv-Heal/Rchg(19), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(19), Prv-Absorb%(29)
Level 12: Mystic Flight -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Static Shield -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), GldArm-ResDam(21), GldArm-End/Res(40), GldArm-RechRes(43)
Level 18: Psionic Tornado -- PstBls-Dam%(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(37), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(39), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(39), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40)
Level 20: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), WntGif-ResSlow(21), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23), Rct-ResDam%(23)
Level 22: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(25), GldArm-ResDam(25), GldArm-End/Res(27)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 26: Scramble Thoughts -- Apc-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg(27), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Apc-Acc/Rchg(36), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), GldJvl-Dam%(37)
Level 28: Lightning Reflexes -- Flight-I(A)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 32: Psychic Wail -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Acc/Rchg(34), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(34)
Level 35: Power Sink -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Spirit Ward -- HO:Golgi(A)
Level 41: Midnight Grasp -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Dmg(42), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Hct-Acc/Rchg(43), Mk'Bit-Dam%(43)
Level 44: Darkest Night -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(45)
Level 47: Summon Mistress -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(48), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(50), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 49: Rune of Protection -- Ags-ResDam/Rchg(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Opportunity 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(31), Pnc-Heal/+End(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(34)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Void Radial Final Judgement 
Level 50: Carnival Core Superior Ally 
Level 50: Rebirth Radial Epiphany 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface 
------------

 

 

... and for reference the scrapper build is also given here: 

Spoiler

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Undying  Boxer: Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Sorcery
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprCrtStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(7), SprCrtStr-Dmg/Rchg(17)
Level 1: Ninja Reflexes -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(3), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 2: Shadow Maul -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg(13), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Arm-Acc/Rchg(15), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(15), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(17)
Level 4: Danger Sense -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(7), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Rct-Def/Rchg(9), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Rct-ResDam%(11)
Level 6: Shinobi-Iri -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(27), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(50)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(23), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(25)
Level 10: Kuji-In Rin -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(19)
Level 14: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(29), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(36), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--Build%(37)
Level 16: Seishinteki Kyoyo -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(34)
Level 18: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 20: Kuji-In Sha -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(31), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Prv-Heal/Rchg(31), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(33), Prv-Absorb%(33)
Level 22: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-End/Res(25), GldArm-ResDam(42), GldArm-RechRes(42)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 28: Bo Ryaku -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(29)
Level 30: Weave -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(39), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(39), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), RedFrt-Def(40), RedFrt-EndRdx(40)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(34), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(46)
Level 35: Moonbeam -- Apc-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Apc-Dmg(45), Apc-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 38: Mystic Flight -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 41: Shadow Meld -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(46)
Level 44: Spirit Ward -- Heal-I(A)
Level 47: Rune of Protection -- Ags-ResDam/Rchg(A)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit 
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(43), Mrc-Rcvry+(45)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(45)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Void Radial Final Judgement 
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Core Superior Ally 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany 
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Edited August 14, 2020 by EnjoyTheJourney

[nihilii]

Shinobi-Iri guarantees your next hit out of stealth will be a crit, so you want to turn that off to get (mostly) accurate damage values for the scrapper.

[oldskool]

33 minutes ago, nihilii said:

Shinobi-Iri guarantees your next hit out of stealth will be a crit, so you want to turn that off to get (mostly) accurate damage values for the scrapper.

And Sentinel Shinobi-Iri adds 20% damage to the first hit but will report it all the time in the planner.  So turn it off on Sentinels too.  

 

1 hour ago, EnjoyTheJourney said:

Is the character planner in error, or is damage that different across these ATs? If it is, then how might one bridge the power gap between these characters? Is there something else that I'm missing? 

Sometimes it is both planner error and AT difference.  There are still several Sentinel AoE powers that aren't reporting properly in the planner.  Most of the powers are accurate.  

 

The Opportunity mechanic in the planner is also a scaling damage buff.  You can shift the slider all the way to 25%.  That's not how it works.  The planner doesn't report the effect of Offensive Opportunity either so the impact of that requires separate homework if you really cared to deal with it.  

Moral of the story; the planners have their uses but do take a lot of it with a grain of salt. 

[EnjoyTheJourney]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

Shinobi-Iri guarantees your next hit out of stealth will be a crit, so you want to turn that off to get (mostly) accurate damage values for the scrapper.

Thank you for mentioning this. That turned out to be the "spoiler" that led to such a surprisingly high level of divergence in reported damage values. 

 

Turning off that one toggle for the scrapper brings the damage values *much* closer to being in line, enough so that the sentinel build starts to look very good given that it can operate mostly outside melee range and that it has less DPS lost to time spent moving between targets. 

[Underfyre]

Many of the damage values are wrong in Mids. You can update them yourself if you're feeling adventurous, but they'll get reset if you update the program at all.

 

For the Opportunity buff, set it to about 14%. Most everyone can have that kind of average up time. If you're using Opportunity Strikes, you can move it to maybe 16%.

[oldskool]

29 minutes ago, underfyre said:

Many of the damage values are wrong in Mids. You can update them yourself if you're feeling adventurous, but they'll get reset if you update the program at all.

 

For the Opportunity buff, set it to about 14%. Most everyone can have that kind of average up time. If you're using Opportunity Strikes, you can move it to maybe 16%.

I've been doing exactly that.  I'll turn the inherent off to get an idea of baseline, and then figure out uptime.  Basic 5% plus average uptime contribution.  Its definitely a good tip.