Super Reflexes: Quality of Life Improvements II: Reflexive Suparoo

[modest]

I was discussing Super Reflexes with @Bopper today and we came up with an idea for a relatively simple quality of life change for Super Reflexes. This is a follow up to my original thread on the subject.

 

Before I start, I want to make it very clear that I am not suggesting that any of Super Reflexes defense values, defense debuff resistance values, or scaling resistance values be changed.

 

In my opinion, Super Reflexes suffers from a few problems:

1. The order in which Super Reflexes receives its toggles and unique abilities differs from every other defense set in a way that negatively impacts Super Reflexes at low levels.
2. Three out of the nine powers that Super Reflexes receives are passive powers that accomplish the same thing that other defense sets accomplish with a single power.
3. Super Reflexes is inherently endurance hungry and no method of recovering endurance.
4. Super Reflexes has no method of recovering after taking damage.

 

Here is the order that the defense sets receive their powers on a Scrapper:

Energy Aura:

• Kinetic Shield, level 1 (Toggle) S/L/E +DDR
• Power Shield, level 4 (Toggle) F/C/E/N +DDR
• Energy Cloak, level 20 (Toggle) Unique stealth + defense(all) power

Shield:

• Deflection, level 1 (Toggle) Melee
• Battle Agility, level 4 (Toggle) Ranged/AOE + DDR
• Phalanx Fighting, level 20 (Auto) Unique scaling M/R/A +Def power

Ninjitsu:

• Ninja Reflexes, level 1 (Toggle) Melee + DDR
• Danger Sense, level 2 (Toggle) R/A + DDR
• Shinobi-Iri, level 4 (Toggle) M/R/A

Super Reflexes:

• Focused Fighting, level 1 (Toggle) Melee + DDR
• Focused Senses, level 2 (Toggle) R/A + DDR
• Evasion, level 35 (Toggle) R/A + DDR
• Agile, level 4, (Auto) +DEF(Ranged) + DDR + Unique Scaling Resistances
• Dodge, level 16, (Auto) +DEF(Melee) + DDR + Unique Scaling Resistances
• Lucky, level 28, (Auto) +DEF(AOE) + DDR + Unique Scaling Resistances

 

The unique ability of Super Reflexes is its Scaling Resistances. Other defense sets dedicate a single power to their unique ability. Super Reflexes dedicates three powers, and receives the final one at relatively late levels.

 

@Bopper and I came up with a simple solution that was inspired by the Sentinel version of Super Reflexes:

 

1. Reorder the Super Reflexes toggles to match the power progression of every other defense set.
2. Combine Agile, Dodge, and Lucky into a single power and move it to level 20 to match the level that other defense sets receive their unique power.
   1. Half of the DDR from these three passives would go into this new power.
3. Add the absorb shield from the Sentinel version of "Master Brawler" to Practiced Brawler.
   1. Ensure that it refreshes and does not stack.
   2. Practiced Brawler would remain a click power.
4. Add the power "Enduring" from the Sentinel version of Super Reflexes.
   1. Half of the DDR from the three passives would go into this new power.

 

After the proposed changes, the set would look like this:

 

Level as Primary/Level as Secondary

• Level 1/Level 1: Focused Fighting – No proposed changes.
  • Toggle: Self +DEF(Melee), +Res(Confuse, DEF Debuff)
• Level 1/Level 2: Focused Senses – No proposed changes.
  • Toggle: Self +DEF(Ranged), +Res(DEF Debuff), +Perception
• Level 2/Level 4: Evasion – Proposed move from level 35.
  • Toggle: PBAoE, Foe Taunt, Self +DEF(AoE), +Res(DEF Debuff)
• Level 6/Level 10: Practiced Brawler – Proposed change: add an absorb shield.
  • Self +Res(Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immobilize, Knockback)
  • Absorb shield that refreshes and does not stack.
  • Remains a click power.
• Level 8/Level 16: Quickness – Proposed move from level 20, 26, and 35
  • Auto: Self +Res(-Recharge, -SPD), +Recharge, +SPD
  • No changes to this power.
• Level 12/Level 20: Agility – New power that is a combination of Agility, Dodge, and Lucky
  • Auto: Self +DEF(Melee, Ranged, AoE), +Res(All DMG but Psionics and Toxic (Scaling), DEF Debuff)
• Level 18/28: Enduring – Power ported from the Sentinel version of Super Reflexes.
  • Auto: Self +Recovery, +DEF(Psionic), Res(DeBuff DEF), Res(DMG, Special)
• Level 26/35: Reaction Time – New power, PBAoE slow toggle. Name taken from Martial Combat.
  • Toggle (PBAoE) Foe –Rech, -Move Speed
  • 8ft radius
• Level 32/38: Elude – No proposed changes.
  • Self +DEF(Melee, Ranged, AoE), +Res(DEF Debuff), +Recovery, +SPD, +Jump, +Special

 

I want to reiterate that I am not suggesting that any of Super Reflexes defense values, defense debuff resistance values, or scaling resistance values be changed.

 

[Lockpick]

A lot of thought went into this suggestion, so thank you.  I love SR as a set and I agree with some of the changes.  Did you guys look into the impact to builds?  Right now I have 3 passives that I can leave as 1 slot powers with a LoTG or other Defense set IO.  In this set-up I would be losing 2 of those passives. 

 

You are also adding a 4th toggle to 3 existing toggles, although endurance might not be an issue after adding Enduring.

 

Why not just combine FS and Evasion like Ninjitsu did and call it a day?  Replace Evasion with something else like a click recharge power reducing the need for Hasten.  I'm not a fan of Reaction Time, although it does fit the theme.

[Mezmera]

Honestly I almost like SR as it currently is.  It's cheap on the required slotting to cap all of your positionals and it's great how much +recharge you can get out of it. 

 

I like how the passives are in theory with the resists scaling into play the more health you lose but it only is really a significant boost when you're down to 2/3 health and like you say there's no real way in it's toolkit to get you back out of danger.  One or two lucky big shots and you're roadkill.  Now if you can boost your resists to where you can take those big shots and get use out of the passive scaling resists then you're doing well but that means you are pretty much locked into taking Sorcery.  

 

I'd like to see the passive's resists adjusted to where it's significant enough at full health even if it doesn't scale as high at 10% health.  I can make due without the heal since that is it's known weakness anyways.  I'd totally advocate for Elude to be reworked since most SR builds are already defense capped by when you get it settled.  

Edited September 4, 2020 by Mezmera

[MTeague]

I don't think /SR needs any changes at all.

That said, if you absolutely insist on buffing my Claws/SR scrapper....  I guess I'll muddle through the day one way or another.

 

One thing of note:  

striking the three passives into just one passive does eliminate two LotG +7.5 recharge mules.

 

though it's not exactly difficult for /SR to come up with 5. 

It would STILL have 5 possible places in set, with Elude (4 without), and the three toggles plus passive plus Combat Jumping is about the lowest of all possible hanging fruit.

[modest]

29 minutes ago, Lockpick said:

A lot of thought went into this suggestion, so thank you.  I love SR as a set and I agree with some of the changes.  Did you guys look into the impact to builds?  Right now I have 3 passives that I can leave as 1 slot powers with a LoTG or other Defense set IO.  In this set-up I would be losing 2 of those passives. 

 

You are also adding a 4th toggle to 3 existing toggles, although endurance might not be an issue after adding Enduring.

 

Why not just combine FS and Evasion like Ninjitsu did and call it a day?  Replace Evasion with something else like a click recharge power reducing the need for Hasten.  I'm not a fan of Reaction Time, although it does fit the theme.

Thank you for your feedback. The power "Enduring" allows defense IOs to be slotted, so you would be able to slot your LoTG or other defense sets there.

 

The 4th (Reaction Time) toggle would be an optional mitigation tool, and it would come at later levels. I am open to suggestions on what Reaction Time might be replaced with.

 

Your suggestion of combining Evasion with Focus Senses would be an improvement over the current iteration of Super Reflexes. If that is the route that the developers choose to take, then I would suggest filling the empty slot with Enduring.

28 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

Honestly I almost like SR as it currently is.  It's cheap on the required slotting to cap all of your positionals and it's great how much +recharge you can get out of it. 

 

I like how the passives are in theory with the resists scaling into play the more health you lose but it only is really a significant boost when you're down to 2/3 health and like you say there's no real way in it's toolkit to get you back out of danger.  One or two lucky big shots and you're roadkill.  Now if you can boost your resists to where you can take those big shots and get use out of the passive scaling resists then you're doing well but that means you are pretty much locked into taking Sorcery.  

 

I'd like to see the passive's resists adjusted to where it's significant enough at full health even if it doesn't scale as high at 10% health.  I can make due without the heal since that is it's known weakness anyways.  I'd totally advocate for Elude to be reworked since most SR builds are already defense capped by when you get it settled.  

I almost like it as it currently is as well, but it does suffer from receiving Evasion at a level that is much later than the levels that every other defense set receives its primary toggles.

 

I think that the absorb shield added to Practiced Brawler and the addition of Enduring would address your complaint about the scaling resistances.

1 minute ago, MTeague said:

I don't think /SR needs any changes at all.

That said, if you absolutely insist on buffing my Claws/SR scrapper....  I guess I'll muddle through the day one way or another.

 

One thing of note:  

striking the three passives into just one passive does eliminate two LotG +7.5 recharge mules.

 

though it's not exactly difficult for /SR to come up with 5. 

It would STILL have 5 possible places in set, with Elude (4 without), and the three toggles plus passive plus Combat Jumping is about the lowest of all possible hanging fruit.

These changes would allow your Claws/SR Scrapper to enjoy its defense toggles before the level of 35.

 

The power "Enduring" (that currently exists in the Sentinel version of Super Reflexes) allows defense IOs to be slotted.

[Sakura Tenshi]

I'm gonna be honest, I think SR is mostly fine as it is. It lacks clickies that can help it change the tide of battle outside of the tier 9? Yes, but so does Willpower and that's held as a well regarded set (well, unless you count a self rez which not many do) as well as Shield Defense. Now given that that's three out of fourteen armor sets in the whole game, but not every armor set needs to be or should necessarily be the same. Secondly, Defense Debuff Resistance on Super Reflexes can actually prove incredibly useful in various circumstances, chief of which is against things like Mask of Vitiation (Carnie Ring Mistresses), Mental Scramble (Arachnos Tarantula Mistresses), Analyze Weakness (IDF/UPA Seers), and no double others which have some strong defense debuffing which you can feel painfully on many of the other defense sets without such generous DDR, trying to get rid of a massive portion of it to roll the passives into a single power would be a mistake.

 

• That said, I do concede that for having only THREE toggles, SR feels strangely endurance hungry compared to other armorsets. Rather than throwing in a recovery bonus, I might propose just lowering the toggle costs down to as low as .15 endurance per-second, and it would potentially make sense with dodging attacks being the sort of thing that would be less exhausting than trying to tough it out.
• SR does suffer from getting it's AoE defenses too late outside of on brute and tanker, and stalkers lose out on Lucky which is substituted by Hide, which gives softcapped Defense against AoEs while hidden and a small (about 1.88%) defense to all when out of hide, which is far less than what Lucky offers and gives no DDR (though they do have a much stronger version of Evasion to make up for it). My solution for this would be to simply distribute defenses a bit across the toggles (so Focused Fighting and Focused senses lose out on a small bit of their primary positional defense but gain AoE and one other positional defense and Evasion naturally also gaining some melee and ranged defense for a small reduction of AoE defense)  and switch Lucky into an earlier slot for scrappers and possibly push agile or dodge back to mitigate this issue.
• As mentioned in the previous thread, I do agree that outside of Ninjutsu (which grants a stacking psionic resistance), click-based mez protection does not seem worthwhile these days, and some compensation should be given to make it worthwhile for the potential of stacking applications beyond mez protection. My own idea was for SR's offensive output to possibly benefit by having Practiced Brawler grand a small boost to recharge and tohit that could be stacked to give a sense of your honed reflexes and speed allowing you to make more accurate attacks more frequently, even stacking this bonus up with sufficient recharge reductions. (and/or possibly throw on taunt/placate protection but not sure that would benefit from stacking)

anyway, I've said what I wanted to. The "short" version of it is that SR does suffer a bit due to being cripplingly specialized as defense sets go, and in the defense game, it can't really be beat, but the strongest powers offer more than just one thing but a combination. Outside of mez protection holes Willpower has +max HP mixed with regeneration, resistances, and some modest defenses to top it all off, Ninjitsu gives stealth, a self-heal, and honestly on scrappers and sentinels even can give some respectable resistances, Shield has +max HP, balanced Resistance and Defense and offers some team support and an AoE knockdown, even invulnerability, fiery aura, ice armor, and stone armor give more than just one thing. But I am not sure that SR should just follow the path of these others, maybe it could use a bit more resistance, but otherwise I think maybe SR might benefit from adding to its user's offensive abilities to shore up it's gaps combined with efficient elegance in form. (again, SR has three toggles and a click mez protection. most other sets are four toggles or more, and yet again, it's strangely end draining.)

[Outrider_01]

6 hours ago, modest said:

Super Reflexes is inherently endurance hungry and no method of recovering endurance.

Sprint called, it asked Ninjitsu "Can you hear me now?" and Ninjitsu was like "I don't get it?"  so Sprint is like "Well, the max endurance cost is .78 for all three toggles in Super Reflexes" and Ninjitsu is still confused when responding "your point? my 3 toggles is also .78" so Sprint is like "I am trying to say; when properly sloted the total cost is .58 for both power sets"  Ninjitsu responds "Yeah..what of it." so Sprint says "Unslotted, my cost is .29 or half of both of you power sets unslotted.  That means you, Ninjitsu are scarfing down endurance like a bulimic and purging that endurance as fast as possible cause you can throw up some blue bar" so Ninjitsu tries to respond when Sprint cuts in "Oh, and those scalling passives on Super Reflex...Rock Hard Abs up to 60% resist, bro.  Chicks dig scars when you are living a thin line next to death."

 

tl;dr - or don't find me funny, Super Reflex the set itself isn't endurance hungry it has the same endurance cost as Ninjitsu; running the 3 toggles.  Sprint costs half as much, and it only increases speed.  Its the primary attack set (which can be adjusted for slotting properly) that gulps down the blue bar like Gatorade, and Ninjitsu recovers the endurance.  But the granite abs from the six pack on a super reflex; even Superman is going to hurt his fist punching that stomach. 

 

I don't know, I just wanted to be funny right now.😏

Edited September 5, 2020 by Outrider_01

[Bopper]

Of course, I like the suggestions as we did work on it together. But if I would throw in some tweaks that I would like to see:

 

Let the Absorb from Practice Brawler stack, just don't make the absorb crazy strong. Since PB is a 200s recharge with 120s duration, I would say to make it a 10% absorb that lasts 120s. Make half of it enhanceable (do 15% absorb if +100% enhanced).

 

Instead of Reaction Time, I'd like to see it get a teleport attack like Burst of Speed. Something that will have you zipping around with your superior speed/reflexes.

 

Add a +Recharge effect to Elude. 

[Thezanman]

17 hours ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

trying to get rid of a massive portion of (DDR) to roll the passives into a single power would be a mistake.

That isn't what's being suggested. Half of the total DDR from the three passives would go into the combined passive, the other half would go into Enduring.

[modest]

2 hours ago, Bopper said:

Of course, I like the suggestions as we did work on it together. But if I would throw in some tweaks that I would like to see:

 

Let the Absorb from Practice Brawler stack, just don't make the absorb crazy strong. Since PB is a 200s recharge with 120s duration, I would say to make it a 10% absorb that lasts 120s. Make half of it enhanceable (do 15% absorb if +100% enhanced).

 

Instead of Reaction Time, I'd like to see it get a teleport attack like Burst of Speed. Something that will have you zipping around with your superior speed/reflexes.

 

Add a +Recharge effect to Elude. 

I like these suggestions. I think that a Burst of Speed teleport attack would fit well in the level 26/35 slot and would fit the theme of the set.

[Lex Talion]

 

I'm trying to stay out of discussions, because they're consuming a lot of time for little to no gain, but this is so wrong from start to end, I can't.

 

On 9/4/2020 at 10:48 PM, modest said:

In my opinion, Super Reflexes suffers from a few problems:

1. The order in which Super Reflexes receives its toggles and unique abilities differs from every other defense set in a way that negatively impacts Super Reflexes at low levels.
2. Three out of the nine powers that Super Reflexes receives are passive powers that accomplish the same thing that other defense sets accomplish with a single power.
3. Super Reflexes is inherently endurance hungry and no method of recovering endurance.
4. Super Reflexes has no method of recovering after taking damage.

A solution implies that there's a problem, and SR'S only problem is the order of powers for Scrappers and Stalkers.

 

1. Yes, the order of powers for Scrappers and Stalkers in particular is terrible. It is irrelevant that it differs.

2. No they don't. SR passives provide defense, DDR and scaling resistances, even without endurance. (Additionally they provide slotting space for special IOs, in turn opening the option to 6-slot toggles, btw.)

3. SR has 3 armor toggles at standard endurance costs, so if it is inherently hungry than almost all armor sets are. Also Elude provides a massive endurance boost, should need arise, and if people skip it, that's a voluntary decision, not a weakness of the set.

4. Instead it proactively lowers the chance to take more damage and lowers the incoming damage. Same effect under most circumstances.

 

On 9/4/2020 at 10:48 PM, modest said:

The unique ability of Super Reflexes is its Scaling Resistances. Other defense sets dedicate a single power to their unique ability. Super Reflexes dedicates three powers, and receives the final one at relatively late levels

That effect is unique, yes, but it doesn't define the set and claiming that it dedicates three powers to it, is wrong. SR is defined by providing the highest defense values (positional, to boot), highest DDR. and passive damage buff (because that's what +recharge and only one, slow recharging click power mean, as soon as you go IOs). It is also among the fastest sets, which used to translate into XP/hour, but that has lost meaning mostly due to prestige powers and temps.

 

On 9/4/2020 at 10:48 PM, modest said:

 

@Bopper and I came up with a simple solution that was inspired by the Sentinel version of Super Reflexes:

 

 

1. Reorder the Super Reflexes toggles to match the power progression of every other defense set.
2. Combine Agile, Dodge, and Lucky into a single power and move it to level 20 to match the level that other defense sets receive their unique power.
   1. Half of the DDR from these three passives would go into this new power.
3. Add the absorb shield from the Sentinel version of "Master Brawler" to Practiced Brawler.
   1. Ensure that it refreshes and does not stack.
   2. Practiced Brawler would remain a click power.
4. Add the power "Enduring" from the Sentinel version of Super Reflexes.
   1. Half of the DDR from the three passives would go into this new power.

 

1. I'm still trying to figure out what those ominous other power sets are, all following the same progression pattern, and having unique abilities.

2. Again, the ominous other sets and their unique powers. Checking all Brute armor sets (they have the most) I see powers that are unique from T2 (Inexhaustible. Hardly set defining, that would be Adaption, but unique) to T9 (Granite Armor. Non crashing godmode).

3. Tiny absorb ticks at best. A huge absorb shield effectively negates the danger of a huge hit bypassing the set's scaling resistances or psionic control powers (-> no positional flag) hurting.

4. see above

 

On 9/4/2020 at 10:48 PM, modest said:

After the proposed changes, the set would look like this:

 

Level as Primary/Level as Secondary

• Level 1/Level 1: Focused Fighting – No proposed changes.
  • Toggle: Self +DEF(Melee), +Res(Confuse, DEF Debuff)
• Level 1/Level 2: Focused Senses – No proposed changes.
  • Toggle: Self +DEF(Ranged), +Res(DEF Debuff), +Perception
• Level 2/Level 4: Evasion – Proposed move from level 35.
  • Toggle: PBAoE, Foe Taunt, Self +DEF(AoE), +Res(DEF Debuff)
• Level 6/Level 10: Practiced Brawler – Proposed change: add an absorb shield.
  • Self +Res(Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immobilize, Knockback)
  • Absorb shield that refreshes and does not stack.
  • Remains a click power.
• Level 8/Level 16: Quickness – Proposed move from level 20, 26, and 35
  • Auto: Self +Res(-Recharge, -SPD), +Recharge, +SPD
  • No changes to this power.
• Level 12/Level 20: Agility – New power that is a combination of Agility, Dodge, and Lucky
  • Auto: Self +DEF(Melee, Ranged, AoE), +Res(All DMG but Psionics and Toxic (Scaling), DEF Debuff)
• Level 18/28: Enduring – Power ported from the Sentinel version of Super Reflexes.
  • Auto: Self +Recovery, +DEF(Psionic), Res(DeBuff DEF), Res(DMG, Special)
• Level 26/35: Reaction Time – New power, PBAoE slow toggle. Name taken from Martial Combat.
  • Toggle (PBAoE) Foe –Rech, -Move Speed
  • 8ft radius
• Level 32/38: Elude – No proposed changes.
  • Self +DEF(Melee, Ranged, AoE), +Res(DEF Debuff), +Recovery, +SPD, +Jump, +Special

 

 

Reducing the activation time of SR toggles to 0, or offering a choice between original, stacking Practiced Brawler and a toggle version would be a Quality of Life change (and even that would be debatable). What you are proposing are massive buffs to the set, mislabelled as QoL.

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Lex Talion

[Doomguide2005]

My thoughts, I don't really feel SR needs much help even in the mid levels.  That said getting Lucky/AoE defense earlier isn't something I'd object to or feel is problematic.  I don't have a particular issue with end recovery, though some of that could be the IO +recovery/+end specials I get on pretty much every character fairly quick these days.  

 

The only thing I'd really like to see is something that at least puts Elude in the category of a potential choice in a build.  Right now there's basically no reason to choose Elude outside of perhaps nostalgia.

[modest]

35 minutes ago, Lex Talion said:

I'm trying to stay out of discussions, because they're consuming a lot of time for little to no gain, but this is so wrong from start to end, I can't.

You are welcome to your opinion. I disagree with it.

 

35 minutes ago, Lex Talion said:

1. I'm still trying to figure out what those ominous other power sets are, all following the same progression pattern, and having unique abilities.

2. Again, the ominous other sets and their unique powers. Checking all Brute armor sets (they have the most) I see powers that are unique from T2 (Inexhaustible. Hardly set defining, that would be Adaption, but unique) to T9 (Granite Armor. Non crashing godmode).

3. Tiny absorb ticks at best. A huge absorb shield effectively negates the danger of a huge hit bypassing the set's scaling resistances or psionic control powers (-> no positional flag) hurting.

4. see above

The other power sets are listed in the first post in this thread. I even helpfully listed the order in which those sets receive their equivalent powers.

 

I am not sure why you find power sets other than Super Reflexes to be ominous. Do defense-based power sets other than Super Reflexes threaten you? Be still, child, for I shall protect you from the dangers of Energy Aura, Shield Defense, and Ninjitsu. Cry not, oh startled lamb, for no defense set shall menace you on this day.

 

Bopper suggested a 10% absorb that lasts 120 seconds, with half of the 10% enhanceable. I agree with that suggestion.

[Lex Talion]

11 hours ago, modest said:

The other power sets are listed in the first post in this thread. I even helpfully listed the order in which those sets receive their equivalent powers.

Your list does not support what you claim it does. Which is..

 

On 9/4/2020 at 10:48 PM, modest said:

1. Reorder the Super Reflexes toggles to match the power progression of every other defense set.
2. Combine Agile, Dodge, and Lucky into a single power and move it to level 20 to match the level that other defense sets receive their unique power.
   1. Half of the DDR from these three passives would go into this new power.

Your list mentions Energy Cloak providing unique stealth, so this obviously seems to be the set's unique feature to compare SR's scaling resistances against and whether or not 3 passives are justified for the latter.

...and then you list Ninjitsu's Shinobi-Iri below, which does just the same with slightly lower numbers.

 

Energy Cloak is not unique, not even within your shortened list. Its stealth effect is also not relevant to the performance of the set.

What is a unique feature about Energy Aura (as a defense set) is Energize's +EndRdx which unlocks at 28, not 20.

 

Additionally your list and your whole argumentation does not adress the existence of Ice Armor or Stone Armor (yes, those are defense sets too) which both have unique abilities with their T9s Hibernate (Phase)/Icy Bastion (Crashless T9) and Granite Armor (Toggle T9) at Lvl 38, not Lvl 20. With Ice Armor being available to all 4 melee ATs.

 

TL;DR:

There is no general power progression of every other defense set that would support your argumentation. Mez Protection no later than Lvl 16, and S/L respectively Melee armor before any other type, that's mostly it, at a glance.

 

You can feel about a power set how you want and you can suggest what you want, that's nobody's business and exactly what this forum is for. But...

I don't think it's too much to ask that suggestions aren't mislabelled, stuff isn't made up and facts aren't misrepresented in favor of it.

 

 

11 hours ago, modest said:

I am not sure why you find power sets other than Super Reflexes to be ominous. Do defense-based power sets other than Super Reflexes threaten you? Be still, child, for I shall protect you from the dangers of Energy Aura, Shield Defense, and Ninjitsu. Cry not, oh startled lamb, for no defense set shall menace you on this day.

Your mockery does nothing to support your claims, let alone your suggestions.

Ominous has a slightly different connotation in my first language. But then, the existence of power sets that managed to elude me for years could be considered unsettling - but as it turned out they don't exist. You also don't have to protect me from the dangers of Energy Aura, Shield Defense and Ninjitsu - my Energy Aura, Shield Defense and Ninjitsu toons do that. Thank you for the offer though.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Lex Talion

[Haijinx]

It would be nice if it followed the Brute progression.

 

I'd be in favor of fixing that.

 

Elude should wait until they figure out to do with all the other T9s like it (unstoppable,  overload, etc, etc.)

 

 

 

[tidge]

I'm playing a /SR Stalker through the game content (normal pace, currently lvl 24) as a remix of a /WP Scrapper, and I wanted to compare against a Widow (in terms of survivability). This character feels Endurance hungry, more than the Scrapper but about the same as the Widow. The current build plan is to take all of SR except Elude (I'm not a fan of powers with recharge times longer than many missions).

 

The main thing that irks me about SR in the build planning is not being able to slot the Resistance pieces which provide Global defense bonuses (until the build can fit Tough). I grok the core of SR, but when other power sets can casually drop in a global +6% Defense in a Resistance power (toggle or not) for just 1 extra slot it does feel to me that SR is being 'held back'.  I'd be thrilled if one of the DDR powers (Dodge?) also accepted Resistance IOs.

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

  I'd be thrilled if one of the DDR powers (Dodge?) also accepted Resistance IOs.

This right here. 

[Andreah]

40 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

This right here. 

With the intent to buff the the scaling resistances in the powers? 😮

[Solarverse]

3 hours ago, Andreah said:

With the intent to buff the the scaling resistances in the powers? 😮

I'm saying if the set could use anything, it's that. Make the passive have a base resistance, something small like 7.5% Resist to all, and make it slottabe for up to 10% base resist. 

 

The only issue I have with SR is when in an AV fight, sometimes hard hitting bosses too (especially on low levels before IOs) you can be hit once and watch your health go to 10% with one hit. The scaling resist does not kick in until that first hit and damage is complete. So now you are at 10% Health with less than 60% resist. One more hit and you're dead. That scaled resist will not save you.

 

So, instead of buffing the set and swapping abilities around, just make the passive have a small base resist that is slottable and call it a day.

 

Edit:

Actually no. I play as a Stalker, so I only get 2 scaling resist abilities. Forgot about Lucky, which would make it overkill big time.

 

So instead of 7.5% base resist unslotted, go with 3.5% base resist, 5% max possible per passive. That would be 10% max base resist for Stalkers and 15% base resist for everything else.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Solarverse

[modest]

4 hours ago, Lex Talion said:

You can feel about a power set how you want and you can suggest what you want, that's nobody's business and exactly what this forum is for. But...

I don't think it's too much to ask that suggestions aren't mislabelled, stuff isn't made up and facts aren't misrepresented in favor of it.

We fundamentally disagree, and I don't think that we can see eye to eye about this. I respect that you have a difference of opinion, and I thank you for sharing your opinion.

 

 

It might be helpful for the thread if I list the level at which every defense secondary receives its primary defense and resistance powers. Here's the list alphabetically:

 

Level as Primary/Level as Secondary

• Set name: Bio Armor
  • Type: Hybrid
  • Level 1/Level 1: Hardened Carapace, Self Toggle, +Res(Lethal, Smash, Toxic, Disorient, Sleep), +Regen, +Special
  • Level 2/Level 4: Environmental Modification,  Self Toggle, +Res(Hold, Knockdown, Immobilize), +Def(Energy, Negative, Fire, Cold, Psionic), +Special
  • Level 6/Level 10: Evolving Armor,  Self Toggle, +Res(All), Foe -Res(All), Taunt, +Special
• Set name: Dark Armor
  • Type: Resistance
  • Level 1/Level 1: Dark Embrace,  Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Negative, Toxic)
  • Level 2/Level 4: Murky Cloud,  Toggle: Self +Res(Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative, End Drain)
  • Level 6/Level 10: Obsidian Shield,  Toggle: Self +Res(Psionic, Sleep, Hold, Disorient, Fear)
    • Level 12/Level 20: Cloak of Darkness,  Toggle: Self Stealth, +DEF(All), +Res(Immobilize), +Perception
• Set name: Electrical Armor
  • Type: Resistance
  • Level 1/Level 1: Charged Armor,  Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Energy)
  • Level 2/Level 4: Conductive Shield,  Toggle: Self +Res(Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative)
  • Level 6/Level 10: Static Shield, Toggle: Self +Res(Psionics, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Teleport, End Drain, -Recovery
• Set name: Energy Aura
  • Type: Defense
  • Level 1/Level 1: Kinetic Shield, Toggle: Self +DEF(Smash, Lethal, Energy), +Res(DEF Debuff)
  • Level 2:  Dampening Field, Auto: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Energy, Endurance Drain)
  • Level 4: Power Shield,  Toggle: Self +DEF(Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative), +Res(DEF Debuff)
• Set name: Fiery Aura
  • Type: Resistance
  • Level 1/Level 1: Fire Shield, Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Disorient)
  • Level 12/Level 16: Plasma Shield,  Toggle: Self +Res(Fire, Energy, Negative, Hold, Sleep)
• Set name: Invulnerability
  • Type: Hybrid
  • Level 1/Level 1:  Resist Physical Damage, Auto: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, DEF Debuff)
  • Level 1/Level 2:  Temp Invulnerability, Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal)
  • Level 6/Level 10: Resist Elements, Auto: Self +Res(Fire, Cold, Toxic, -Recharge, -SPD, -Jump)
  • Level 8/Level 16: Unyielding, Toggle: Self +Res(All DMG but Psionics, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immobilize, Knockback)
  • Level 12/Level 20: Resist Energies,  Auto: Self +Res(Energy, Negative, End Drain)
  • Level 18/Level 28: Invincibility,  Toggle: PBAoE, Foe Taunt, Self +DEF(All DMG but Psionics), +To Hit
• Set Name: Ninjitsu
  • Type: Defense
  • Level 1/Level 2: Ninja Reflexes, Toggle: Self +DEF(Melee), +Res(DEF Debuff)
  • Level 2/Level 4: Danger Sense, Toggle: Self +DEF(Ranged, AoE), +Res(DEF Debuff), +Perception
  • Level 4: Shinobi-Iri, Toggle: Self +DEF(Melee, Ranged, AoE), +Run Speed, +Jump
• Set name: Radiation Armor
  • Type: Resistance
  • Level 1/Level 1: Alpha Barrier, Toggle: Self +Res(Lethal, Smash, Toxic)
  • Level 2/Level 4: Proton Armor, Toggle: Self, +Res(Energy, Fire, Cold and Negative)
  • Level 6/Level 10: Fallout Shelter,  Toggle: Self +Res(Hold, Sleep, Immobilize, Stun, Knockdown, Toxic, Psi, Slow)
• Set Name: Shield Defense
  • Type: Defense
  • Level 1/Level 1: Deflection, Toggle: Self +DEF(Melee), +Res(Smash, Lethal)
  • Level 1/Level 2: Battle Agility, Toggle: Self +DEF(Ranged, AoE), +Res(DEF Debuff)
  • Level 2/Level 4: True Grit, Auto: Self +Res(Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative, Toxic), +Max Health
  • Level 12/Level 20: Phalanx Fighting, Auto: Self +DEF(Melee, Ranged, AoE)
• Set Name: Super Reflexes
  • Type: Defense
  • Level 1/Level 1: Focused Fighting, Toggle: Self +DEF(Melee), +Res(Confuse, DEF Debuff)
  • Level 1/Level 2/Level 4: Focused Senses, Toggle: Self +DEF(Ranged), +Res(DEF Debuff), +Perception
  • Level 2/Level 4/Level 10: Agile, Auto: Self +DEF(Ranged), +Res(All DMG but Psionics and Toxic (Scaling), DEF Debuff)
  • Level 8/Level 16/Level 20: Dodge, Auto: Self +DEF(Melee), +Res(All DMG but Psionics and Toxic (Scaling), DEF Debuff)
  • Level 12/Level 20/Level 35: Evasion, Toggle: Self +DEF(AoE), +Res(DEF Debuff)
  • Level 18/Level 28: Lucky, Auto: Self +DEF(AoE), +Res(All DMG but Psionics and Toxic (Scaling), DEF Debuff)
• Set Name: Willpower
  • Type: Hybrid
  • Level 1/Level 1: High Pain Tolerance, Auto: Self +Res(All), +Max Health
  • Level 1/Level 2: Mind Over Body, Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Psionic)
  • Level 6/Level 10, Indomitable Will, Toggle: Self +DEF(Psionic), +Res(Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Fear, Confusion, Knockback)
  • Level 18/Level 28:  Heightened Senses, Toggle: Self +DEF(All DMG but Psionics), +Res(DEF Debuff), +Perception

 

I hope that this list is a helpful comparison. From this list, we can see that the following power sets receive their primary toggles in the first four levels: Dark Armor, Energy Aura, Electrical Armor, Ninjitsu, Radiation Armor, Shield Defense. The Hybrid sets receive powers at later levels, but they also receive more powers than the sets with a singular focus.

[xl8]

While I like the initial suggestion, and Bopper's additional tweak more, I feel more strongly that all sets are currently too OP. The game in its current state tests speed of mission/task completion more than anything else. To compensate I'd like to see both a boost in prowess and increased diversity in NPC mob powers. Combine this with an inherent vulnerability to all powersets and this would make the game a challenge that calls on all team members to shore up others' weaknesses. That said, super reflexes inherent weaknesses would be cold and slow, which would reduce the effectiveness of each power in the set by a small percentage over time and application. So 2 NPCs with slow would have a stacked effect against SR that the character would have to prioritize before being significantly debuffed.

[macskull]

19 hours ago, Lex Talion said:

Also Elude provides a massive endurance boost, should need arise, and if people skip it, that's a voluntary decision, not a weakness of the set.

Surely you're not serious in suggesting that a power with at-reasonable-best 50% uptime and which after its duration completely drains your endurance and eliminates your ability to recover it is the solution to a character's endurance problems?

Edited September 6, 2020 by macskull

[Xanatos]

SR is fine as it is.

 

If you want to do anything, reduce the end cost of the toggles. That's a net positive change.

 

Anything else would just be DevLARPing solutions to problems that don't exist.

[Lex Talion]

31 minutes ago, macskull said:

Surely you're not serious in suggesting that a power with at-reasonable-best 50% uptime and which after its duration completely drains your endurance and eliminates your ability to recover it is the solution to a character's endurance problems?

That's correct, I'm surely not suggesting that Elude is the solution to a character's general endurance problem. The solution to that is slotting endurance reduction and increasing recovery.

The claim, to justify the implemantation of Enduring, was that SR is inherently endurance hungry though, which it is not. SR has no consistent endurance issue that needs to be adressed.

A SR character that keeps running out of endurance just by regular attacking simply is poorly slotted for soloing.

 

HOWEVER... 

19 hours ago, Lex Talion said:

3. SR has 3 armor toggles at standard endurance costs, so if it is inherently hungry than almost all armor sets are. Also Elude provides a massive endurance boost, should need arise, and if people skip it, that's a voluntary decision, not a weakness of the set.

... 'should need arise' adresses those occasions where regular slotting won't carry a character anymore (Sappers, multiple Mu Guardians, Ring Mistresses, etc), and where Elude not only keeps defense high when toggles can't, but provides massively increased recovery to carry the toon through the situation. Would I prefer -Rec and -End resists instead? Sure would, but SR provides a different tool instead and it works.

 

[Haijinx]

I think one possible reason none of these suggestions ever get implemented is they basically make requests the way spoiled kids ask for Xmas presents. 

 

Mom and Dad: What do you want for Xmas DJ? 

Kid:  A Porshe! 

Mom and Dad:  Uhm.. Maybe a Bicycle? 

Kid:  How about a Mustang! 

Mom and Dad:  We could do a Scooter?  

Kid:  KEWL! But I want a Brand New One.  And not some cheapo model either.  Maybe a Ducati .. 

 

Captain Powerhouse probably be like "My wife wouldn't even let me get a new pair of cross trainers"