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2 minutes ago, macskull said:

The voice chat thing is has less to do with being a player-created problem and more to do with the the level of coordination competitive team PvP requires. It's not unique to this game either. It's not just me, though, when we do PvP events there are always players who show up without mics or whatever and that's fine, as long as everyone knows what's going on you can adjust accordingly.

Right. BUT, this game is unique in that it has no viable options that cater to the casual/uncoordinated. I find this game way better than either, but at least in GW2 and ESO you could queue up for random teams where this was the norm.
 

I think the Arena has some options like this but that they have basically never been used by anyone ever.

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12 minutes ago, macskull said:

Yeah, I think the ship has sailed on that one. Homecoming's population is too low, period, to support something like that, even if it were actively utilized.

Absolutely true we don’t have enough population to support a random queueing system. In the absence of that, it would just be nice to see more events that encourage casual play as opposed to the current meta of coordinate or don’t bother showing up. I did that a little on live/test for a few months many years ago but don’t have the time/energy/desire for that level of play/social engagement now.

 

I joined the FFA on indom a week or two ago, for what it’s worth. Was fun even if I got most of my kills just figuring out which noobs to farm.

 

TL;DR It just sucks that, unlike zone, Arena has been more or less abandoned by those wishing to use it in casual terms. I get that’s probably not going to change. Just wanted to offer an alternative perspective to complaints like “PvP builds are hard to make” or whatever.

Edited by arcaneholocaust

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1 hour ago, arcaneholocaust said:

it would just be nice to see more events that encourage casual play...

Ahem. >.>

 

 

Edited by America's Angel
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5 hours ago, 0th Power said:

I never really enjoyed the arena PvP, but I really enjoyed zone PvP especially in Sirens and bloody bay.  If there was a higher population in those 2 zones I would PvP more often.  To a lesser extent, I'd like to see the iwhatevertheymadeallthechanges changes gone.  

Yeah, early on I loved Siren's. I do wish the "+5 levels worth of powers" could be disabled in it. I like things not being a T9-fest. Then again, I don't see people, so...

4 hours ago, Xanatos said:

 

Siren's Call is such an incredible map. And the bounty system is amazing.

Eh. The system and rewards need a rework. But it's fairly easy to understand. now if you only would (a) gain some by doing the missions that affect the zone and (b) not lose it because you "left the zone" to do the mission...

 

3 hours ago, Twisted Toon said:

My guess would be that in PvE, you can avoid the obnoxious people by soloing.

It's rather hard to solo while participating in PvP.

You've seen the zone population, right? 🙂

 


Primarily on Everlasting. Squid afficionado. Former creator of Copypastas. General smartalec.

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5 hours ago, arcaneholocaust said:

Yeah I’d rather we not advertise a player-created problem as if it’s a game feature and risk making the problem even more impossible to change.
 

I appreciate Mac saying he’d be open to non-voice chatters on his arena teams. Let’s not implicitly discourage that.

If there's a move away from requiring Discord in part of the PVP community, that's cool. I still think it's important to inform new players about what's currently common or expected. Maybe instead of saying "Discord is required for team PVP," an intro post could say "Many teams in the PVP community use Discord to coordinate tactics," or something like that.

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This whole Discord in PvP thing has me singing " I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me."

 

Dont judge me for my musical knowledge 😝


T4     TankYou  :  JAQ  :  T.Jones  :  SunshineSky  :  JaqMacPratt  :  PrestigeSky  :  EmmySky  :  Madame Meltdown  :  CoffeeBean  :  SmurfYou  :  Mostly Human  :  

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Ok I must be missing something whats the deal if you use Discord, Vent, or Teamspeak. 

Its the fastest way to convey info and coordinate tactics. Trying to type while in the middle of getting attacked, attacking, etc just seems....stupid.

 

I must have missed something.

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3 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Ok I must be missing something whats the deal if you use Discord, Vent, or Teamspeak. 

Its the fastest way to convey info and coordinate tactics. Trying to type while in the middle of getting attacked, attacking, etc just seems....stupid.

 

I must have missed something.

No big deal if people wanna use Discord.  I dont use it and basically have learned that makes me a loser and I wont be successful or welcomed in PvP.  This is not from ALL the PvPers, apparently just a minority.


T4     TankYou  :  JAQ  :  T.Jones  :  SunshineSky  :  JaqMacPratt  :  PrestigeSky  :  EmmySky  :  Madame Meltdown  :  CoffeeBean  :  SmurfYou  :  Mostly Human  :  

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4 hours ago, Greycat said:

You've seen the zone population, right? 🙂

I play, solely on Reunion. I just have to look at the PvE zones to get an idea of the PvP zone's populations.

 

also, I got a couple of nukes in Warburg last week.

 

But, You can't paticipate in PvP if there isn't anyone around to PvP with.

So then, you would just be PvEing in a PvP zone, and not PvPing.

Therefore, zone population is irrelevant to my statement about it being hard to solo while participating in PvP. 😁

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5 minutes ago, EmmySky said:

No big deal if people wanna use Discord.  I dont use it and basically have learned that makes me a loser and I wont be successful or welcomed in PvP.  This is not from ALL the PvPers, apparently just a minority.

You would be welcomed by the opposing side in PvP, I'm sure...

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1 hour ago, Myrmidon said:

69A99C6C-2E11-4E2C-8223-74E1B4755AD5.gif

Okay, I recant my "you can't" statement.  I do have a price.  🤑😄 (now I don't know if I should feel ashamed or hopeful  🥰😉 ) 

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4 hours ago, Greycat said:

You've seen the zone population, right? 🙂

 

Yeah, it feels about right: just me.  😄  

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53 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Ok I must be missing something whats the deal if you use Discord, Vent, or Teamspeak. 

Its the fastest way to convey info and coordinate tactics. Trying to type while in the middle of getting attacked, attacking, etc just seems....stupid.

 

I must have missed something.

A fair assessment. The something you missed is people having other preferences for how they prefer their ears to spend their limited time per day.

Music >> Silence >> Having strangers shit-talk through my speakers
 

is my personal preference hierarchy here.
 

Other games have arena-like game modes where almost no one is coordinating by voice chat. CoH does not.

 

I will try to join a kickball without it some time, I suppose, to give a little credit to the PvP folks that are legit trying with their outreach efforts. Beyond that, meh.

Edited by arcaneholocaust
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1 minute ago, arcaneholocaust said:

A fair assessment. The something you missed is people having other preferences for how they prefer their ears to spend their limited time per day.

Music >> Silence >> Having strangers shit-talk through my speakers
 

is my personal preference hierarchy here.

Ok so its just open communication between both sides?

Its not like vent or teamspeak with a dedicated channel for a team?

I have no experience with Discord, my VG uses teamspeak and during Live we used Vent.

So unless someone typed something on broadcast or a tell we had no communication with the other side.

 

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19 hours ago, Xanatos said:

 

Why don't PVE people arguing and being toxic on the forum, or PVE people being trolls in the General channel, put you off PVE?

Because I can mute the few annoying people on move on.  The Live forums back in the good ol days were chock-a-block with "potentiate-muters"

 

ETA: Also worth noting I've almost never seen the PVE forums or in-game channels descend to "toxic," you guys are generally great.

Edited by Clave Dark 5

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16 hours ago, Greycat said:

Yeah, early on I loved Siren's. I do wish the "+5 levels worth of powers" could be disabled in it. I like things not being a T9-fest. Then again, I don't see people, so...

I agree with you here.  I wonder if it would be possible to cap the pvp zones at combat level and pve at combat level +5.

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On 9/13/2020 at 6:12 PM, EmmySky said:

I tried to make polite and witty banter in broadcast, which was largely ignored and when the others started to use broadcast it was a "you're so cheap you use base porter to escape, fight me like a man" and "if you're going to cheat and be cheap I'm going to be cheap and cheat" type BS that turns so many people away from PvP.  Those comments were directed at each other, not at me, but it just creates a toxic environment, ya know?

Im really sorry it went that way.  Next time, even without voice, I bet you could get a team to support you.  Post in forums or hit me up in game (ill switch servers etc).  Ill happily come and farm you repeatedly without the added toxic chat.  Sorry I said that out loud.  I meant Id happily come team with you and get some others to help fight back.  Forum name @rageusquitus, 2, 3 and 4 in game.

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Forwarning - Total newbie here, but I hope this offers some insight to the OP. I have never engaged in any serious PVP yet, only with friends when we were goofing around and just having fun. But we sort of went into that expecting it. (Adult beverages were involved, and it involved a lot of bouncing/ranged targeting/"for the lols" gameplay, so I very much doubt it was any form of serious pvp.)

 

1. As far as I can tell, the PVP here is very much like the Battledome from Mad Max. Two enter, one leaves. No rules, regulations, controls, or moderation. So someone like me with that fresh newbie smell, could get matched up against the server Sparticus. If there was some sort of system that could match players of similar skill level and equipment level I might consider it. But getting completely trounced/burst dps'd/CC'd doesnt teach anything. If a "level one" in pvp terms kept getting instantly killed by the "lvl 50" pvper, how is the new person to get any better? There is no gradient curve to learn from as far as I can tell.

 

2. Mentioned before in earlier posts, the at's/builds/skills/ios/powersets/pvp information seemes to be known to few. I can't confirm or deny this one way or another, but it's just what I have heard. I have yet to see a written "CoH PVP guide" anywhere here on the forums. Granted, I wasnt really looking, but if you want PVP to be taken seriously, than that stuff needs to be public knowledge.

 

3. Since there is no moderation, you might get someone who has plain fresh 50 IOs against someone with all the purples. Which I suspect wouldn't be a matter of skill, but more of who had more money to burn.

 

4. Lastly, I personally have always favored tough/durable classes, and pet classes in games. So naturally, here my favored classes are Tanker, Brute, Crabbermind, and Mastermind. And usually (at least in other games), both pet classes and "tank" classes are not really meant for pvp play. For pvp its always been about the burst damage, the CC, the clickables to give you that extra edge, and general game knowledge. This may or may not be the case in CoH, but I suspect that it is. 

 

Point is, PVP simply isnt for everyone. I find the thrill of standing against insurmountable enemies and saving my team, and surviving impossible odds far more satisfying than PVP. And I am not really keen to spend the money gearing up for pvp without any sort of controls, guides, or game records involved.

 

However, this isn't all doom and gloom. I do have suggestion for you to consider OP.

 

In another game, there was a group of players who wanted to attract more people for PVP. So they used the tools they had available, and ended up making a "PVP Guild". (I think it was called Training Wheels?). In a since, they had different "officers" for different "ranks" of pvpers. One officer would oversee the newbies and keep track of wins/losses. After like 50 wins, they could move up to the moderate rank, and so on. (Not positive those were their numbers, only giving an example for understanding.)

 

Anyway, what you could do is a setup similar to this -

Newbie Pvpers - players new to pvping, with limited/basic gear only. Whose focus wasnt to "win", but instead to practice and learn the specific game mechanics and tactics wehre pvpers were concerned. Wins and losses were not recorded at this stage.

Moderate Pvpers - players with some experience, with expanded gear selection. They were supposed to focus on advancing their skills and learning team dynamics and the like. This is also where they started to  keep track of their wins/losses.

Expert Pvpers - this group were the most skilled and geared, who knew what they were doing. And this is where the teams/wins/losses/record started to matter.

 

I mean, you could have officers over seeing each Teir of pvpers. With the overall Leader moderating the officers. I would suggest focusing on mentorship and building a pvp community, rather than what some games have. (lawlz git gud scrub mentality).

 

It's just a suggestion. Though I think you can admit OP that this game is not really designed with PVP in mind, so I doubt its balanced for it. Also bare in mind that PVP isnt for everyone. Personally, I would only do it with friends. Because win or loose, I know its all in good fun, and not the focus of our play. And honestly, I just don't find PVP all that enjoyable at all. I've never been very good at it, particularly with my perfered classes and playstyle. And I don't particularly enjoy getting CC spammed or Instantly bursted (even though im supposedly a tough/defensive archtype) before I can do anything. And then getting mocked/teabagged/git gud scrub/what have you. Why would I do all that, when I don't even enjoy it. I didn't in other games, even if they had mounts/pets/titles/gear/rewards. In this game I suspect you would only find die hard fans of pvp, die hard COH fans, or very bored or ineberated players just out having a good time.

 

TLDR - I dont usally PVP, but if there was a group offering to teach, and helpful guides to read up on, I might consider it. This is your community too PVP fans. Nothing says you cant build your own PVP communty here! Even if its only player moderated and controlled, a "gentlemans agreement" PVP community is better than none I would think?

 

Just my two cents. I hope it helps OP!

 

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2 hours ago, RageusQuitus2 said:

Im really sorry it went that way.  Next time, even without voice, I bet you could get a team to support you.  Post in forums or hit me up in game (ill switch servers etc).  Ill happily come and farm you repeatedly without the added toxic chat.  Sorry I said that out loud.  I meant Id happily come team with you and get some others to help fight back.  Forum name @rageusquitus, 2, 3 and 4 in game.

I appreciate the offer @RageusQuitus.  I am on Indom so I am sure that when I finally get around to continue with my PvP toon I can find someone super patient to help me out OR gank me in frustration when my stupid gets too much 😁


T4     TankYou  :  JAQ  :  T.Jones  :  SunshineSky  :  JaqMacPratt  :  PrestigeSky  :  EmmySky  :  Madame Meltdown  :  CoffeeBean  :  SmurfYou  :  Mostly Human  :  

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1 hour ago, Neiska said:

Forwarning - Total newbie here, but I hope this offers some insight to the OP. I have never engaged in any serious PVP yet, only with friends when we were goofing around and just having fun. But we sort of went into that expecting it. (Adult beverages were involved, and it involved a lot of bouncing/ranged targeting/"for the lols" gameplay, so I very much doubt it was any form of serious pvp.)

 

1. As far as I can tell, the PVP here is very much like the Battledome from Mad Max. Two enter, one leaves. No rules, regulations, controls, or moderation. So someone like me with that fresh newbie smell, could get matched up against the server Sparticus. If there was some sort of system that could match players of similar skill level and equipment level I might consider it. But getting completely trounced/burst dps'd/CC'd doesnt teach anything. If a "level one" in pvp terms kept getting instantly killed by the "lvl 50" pvper, how is the new person to get any better? There is no gradient curve to learn from as far as I can tell.

 

2. Mentioned before in earlier posts, the at's/builds/skills/ios/powersets/pvp information seemes to be known to few. I can't confirm or deny this one way or another, but it's just what I have heard. I have yet to see a written "CoH PVP guide" anywhere here on the forums. Granted, I wasnt really looking, but if you want PVP to be taken seriously, than that stuff needs to be public knowledge.

 

3. Since there is no moderation, you might get someone who has plain fresh 50 IOs against someone with all the purples. Which I suspect wouldn't be a matter of skill, but more of who had more money to burn.

 

4. Lastly, I personally have always favored tough/durable classes, and pet classes in games. So naturally, here my favored classes are Tanker, Brute, Crabbermind, and Mastermind. And usually (at least in other games), both pet classes and "tank" classes are not really meant for pvp play. For pvp its always been about the burst damage, the CC, the clickables to give you that extra edge, and general game knowledge. This may or may not be the case in CoH, but I suspect that it is. 

 

Point is, PVP simply isnt for everyone. I find the thrill of standing against insurmountable enemies and saving my team, and surviving impossible odds far more satisfying than PVP. And I am not really keen to spend the money gearing up for pvp without any sort of controls, guides, or game records involved.

 

However, this isn't all doom and gloom. I do have suggestion for you to consider OP.

 

In another game, there was a group of players who wanted to attract more people for PVP. So they used the tools they had available, and ended up making a "PVP Guild". (I think it was called Training Wheels?). In a since, they had different "officers" for different "ranks" of pvpers. One officer would oversee the newbies and keep track of wins/losses. After like 50 wins, they could move up to the moderate rank, and so on. (Not positive those were their numbers, only giving an example for understanding.)

 

Anyway, what you could do is a setup similar to this -

Newbie Pvpers - players new to pvping, with limited/basic gear only. Whose focus wasnt to "win", but instead to practice and learn the specific game mechanics and tactics wehre pvpers were concerned. Wins and losses were not recorded at this stage.

Moderate Pvpers - players with some experience, with expanded gear selection. They were supposed to focus on advancing their skills and learning team dynamics and the like. This is also where they started to  keep track of their wins/losses.

Expert Pvpers - this group were the most skilled and geared, who knew what they were doing. And this is where the teams/wins/losses/record started to matter.

 

I mean, you could have officers over seeing each Teir of pvpers. With the overall Leader moderating the officers. I would suggest focusing on mentorship and building a pvp community, rather than what some games have. (lawlz git gud scrub mentality).

 

It's just a suggestion. Though I think you can admit OP that this game is not really designed with PVP in mind, so I doubt its balanced for it. Also bare in mind that PVP isnt for everyone. Personally, I would only do it with friends. Because win or loose, I know its all in good fun, and not the focus of our play. And honestly, I just don't find PVP all that enjoyable at all. I've never been very good at it, particularly with my perfered classes and playstyle. And I don't particularly enjoy getting CC spammed or Instantly bursted (even though im supposedly a tough/defensive archtype) before I can do anything. And then getting mocked/teabagged/git gud scrub/what have you. Why would I do all that, when I don't even enjoy it. I didn't in other games, even if they had mounts/pets/titles/gear/rewards. In this game I suspect you would only find die hard fans of pvp, die hard COH fans, or very bored or ineberated players just out having a good time.

 

TLDR - I dont usally PVP, but if there was a group offering to teach, and helpful guides to read up on, I might consider it. This is your community too PVP fans. Nothing says you cant build your own PVP communty here! Even if its only player moderated and controlled, a "gentlemans agreement" PVP community is better than none I would think?

 

Just my two cents. I hope it helps OP!

 


On Champion, one of things that we did was have a PvP boot camp. Organized PvP has limited AT options for competitive play, so the goal was to increase the PvP playerbase. Each week, we played in 10-level increments with veteran players giving advice and actually teaching participants in all aspects of competitive play. At the end, they even gave out rewards to players in different categories (mine was Most Improved, since they were impressed that I was the only one that played my character through each level and never Powerleveled). After the boot camp, we then joined the PvP community and went from there. Perhaps something like this would be an option?


Playing CoX is it’s own reward

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On 9/11/2020 at 8:12 PM, RageusQuitus2 said:

Considering the stigma pvp has, how could we get some of the anti crowd to try it? 

 

My preference is zone play.  I know the arena crowd has tried super hard to get more involvement.

 

Just curious what might make someone try it.

I'm late to this conversation, so I'm not going to read all the threads that have already been posted.

 

I'm going to comment on my PVP experience before the Sunset, my views on PVP based on that time, and my views on PVP in general. I do not know what changes were made to PVP here at Homecoming.

 

So let's start with PVP in general. I remember when PVP was fun to me  ... everyday all the time.

 

I'm going to go old school to start. Pong was PVP. Yes. Pong the tennis game where it was player versus player in a game of tennis. Perfect balance. No difference between one side or other. All skill. No leveling. No P2W perks. Quickly boring, but honest balanced PVP.

 

From there games advanced. I think that the first PVP or PVE with 2d human fighters that were more than stick figures or 72 pixel max was probably Streetfighter. I can't even remember how much difference there actually was on the original one. They may have been the exact same moves for each side with no difference.

Now there were a good number of fighting games early on, but the one that really seemed to be the champion back then was Streetfighter 2.  Streetfigther 2 had characters that were easily recognizable from one another and had different characteristics and abilities. I would even say that some (if not all) of them had super-powers. I think the DEVs of Streetfighter 2 did a really good job of maintaining balance. There seemed to be a little bit of rock-paper-scissors to it for me, but that may have been based on my skill level with the various characters. The game was fun to play PvP and my brothers and I did a round-robin thing where we did best 2 out of three complete battles and then whoever lost would let a brother that wasn't playing take a go at it - or, if there was just two of us playing, who ever won would have to switch characters (same with if one brother beat all the other brothers with the same character - they would have to change characters)

 

So that covers the roots of my PVP.

There were many other fighters that I played, but fighters is what we called PVP back then.

 

We will roll forward to THE CITY.

THE CITY was NOT designed with PVP in mind. THE CITY was based on the concept of getting players to work together as a team to defeat enemies that they could not defeat alone. Yes. A team building game with no infighting.

Then someone or some people decided that what CoH was missing was PvP. So a system was created off of the PVE experience to try to make a PVP experience.

The problem being that the game was written to be PVE and the mechanics of player characters interacting with each other wasn't built into the system. There was no combat balance built into the Archetype system. The archetypes were built to augment each others abilities for team synergy and not designed like characters were in Streetfighter 2.

 

Episode 4 :: Colosseum (No Villain side until Episode 6)

So the first PVP experience was pretty horrible if you weren't a tank (or maybe scrapper or blaster) and, if you weren't a tan, especially horrible if you couldn't fly or if an opponent tank could fly. I like to alt, so feeling like I had to play a tank to play PVP was step one in ruining my experience in PVP.

 

I don't think they got around to an attempt to do some changes to beefed up Controllers and Defenders until after CoV came out.

I have to say, I was probably one of the reasons why the quickly rescinded these changes. A Tank could not simply run up to a defenseless controller and rapidly pummel them into a trip to the hospital. I took in my Ice controller and a least one tank felt like a PVE enemy did trying to fight me. The tank was slowed. Really slowed. They couldn't get within melee range, but they were a tank. Agonizingly slowly, my cool powers peeled off their defense and ate away at them like water on an ice cube at slowed down to 1000th of the speed. To me, it was just slow, but I'm sure to the tank it was agonizingly painful for the long ten minutes or so until they finally fell over an I was still at full hit points.

The forums were flooded with whining about it wasn't fair that a tank couldn't just run up and crush a controler. How could that possibly be fair?! Tanks had crushed in PVP. Aren't they supposed to be the best and most powerful? Why would any other archetype be able to beat them?

See my notes above about Streetfigther 2.

The point isn't that you can win all the time, the point is that you 1) have a balance fight so that when you play against an opponent on a level playing field and skill is what allow you to win or lose ... and 2) there might be a little of rock-paper-scissors in the mix (Controllers>Tanks>Scrapper>Blaster>Defender>Controller kind of thing) <-- but this isn't the major thing, the balance is.

 

Why most people don't play PVP in City of Heroes.

 

First off, City of Heroes is a team-building game at the heart of it. THE CITY is about getting together a group of heroes to pummel the enemy (my preference to pummel are those no-good, dastardly villains, but to each their own)

 

Arena style combat gives advantage to melee as the space is small enough to not allow ranged attackers to use their maximum range to their advantage to avoid melee attacks. Melee wants to "catch you on the ropes" so you can't get away from their pummeling. Ranged attackers want to stay out of melee range and snipe opponents. 

 

Open-world PVP in THE CITY has goals other than just fighting PVE. This was a good edition to give Villains a little bit of a chance as there has always been far fewer villains than heroes. Most of the time in a PVP experience getting the drop on the enemy is the main factor in winning. Villains could sneak up on heroes working on a goal and get the drop of them. This allowed a single villain or a small group of villains to engage with a larger group of heroes and at least have some fun even though they knew in the end that the heroes would defeat them. But this kind of thing is only so entertaining on the one side and annoying to the otherside.

 

The Goal of PVP

 

Is the goal of PVP to beat your opponent every time ... relentlessly ... with no remorse... and being able to bad-mouth your enemy because you ground them into paste?

If that is your goal, then there is no wonder no one wants to PVP with you.

PVP has to be about having a good time and having the chance of winning against your opponent. If you have no chance of winning a PVP, why is that enjoyable experience worth continuing?

 

Wrapping it up

 

PVP in THE CITY simply does not work for me.

PVP doesn't work in DCUO either, but they have even more factors to increase the imbalance than THE CITY does.

At the core, the systems don't allow balanced characters to fight against one other.

Even two teams with one of each archetype is only so balanced as a skilled team goes for the weakest enemy first (which tends to be the Defender or Controller) which causes a cascade effect. 

This situation forces you to throw character conception out the window and build a character that made cookie-cutter for PVP.

Were DCUO went more correct was to have players play Iconics. Unfortunately, they immediately went with making the Iconic characters imbalanced intentionally.

 

Good PVP is about keeping the balance without totally throwing the new player under-the-bus.

If a player doesn't have enjoyable experience playing PVP and they have no choice of winning, why would they want to play PVP when they're are so many PVE enemies to defeat with the aid of your friends in enjoyable gameplay?

 

City of Heroes was designed to be a team-building game where players work together to accomplish a common goal.

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18 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

City of Heroes was designed to be a team-building game where players work together to accomplish a common goal.


The best PvP aspect that they created for this game was the base raiding system. Too bad they never could get it to work well enough and abandoned it


Playing CoX is it’s own reward

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6 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:


The best PvP aspect that they created for this game was the base raiding system. Too bad they never could get it to work well enough and abandoned it

Back on Triumph the VG I was in used to do base raids all the time, ssssssoooo fun I miss it.

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