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What would you change aesthetically?


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More variation in how buildings and construction change over time.

- Different store moves into the property.

- Building is a husk after a fire.

- Building is a shell after an explosion.

- Building is condemned due to supernatural infestation.

- Construction crews working at fixing or remodeling.

- Magical wards and barriers around building being purged of supernatural infestation.

- Streets sectioned off from through traffic due to (say) a burst water main, or just a crater in the street.

 

Essentially, the maps would need modular sections, where assets could be scheduled to "go live."

 

For people that enjoy base building, or constructing AE stories, form a committee that could highlight sensible map adjustments.

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I'd have elevators go to more than one floor. 
I'd not be able to use elevators during a fire. 

I think it would be completely normal to enter a mission and find some other player doing their mission...it happened to me once on live...and it was scary, as they were all 10 levels or so higher...but would it be so surprising that two different clues lead to the same place every now and then? 

And...suppose you went to stop some bad guy from robbing the bank - and instead of Bad Penny, you run into a player's villain character. The difference being - the name wouldn't show like it does in PvP orange, but like a regular villain npc. Mission failures should be possible for every mission, no? And it wouldn't be with pvp rules. Both would have pve stats, and neither would know it was another player, unless they recognized the name. (or names if it were two teams meeting at the safe)

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1 hour ago, Ukase said:

And...suppose you went to stop some bad guy from robbing the bank - and instead of Bad Penny, you run into a player's villain character. The difference being - the name wouldn't show like it does in PvP orange, but like a regular villain npc. Mission failures should be possible for every mission, no? And it wouldn't be with pvp rules. Both would have pve stats, and neither would know it was another player, unless they recognized the name. (or names if it were two teams meeting at the safe)

I think most people would be able to tell it was an actual player in about 5 seconds.

Players don't act (or react) anything like NPCs.

 

Also, if that happened to me, I would leave the mission.

I don't care for PvP most of the time.

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I would give Arachnos bases solid walls instead of the mesh and abyssal darkness.
Also I would probably make the bases actually use the chambers more often, since the majority of the time you go into an Arachnos base it's just endless hallway of shipping crates with the rare sight of the jail, hangar bay, medical area, armory--think most of those chambers were on story arc mission maps that were custom-built later on in CoV's life.

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ALTHOUGH . . . what if it -is- an NPC of another player?

Do a Bank Heist, then upon Exit get a dialogue option giving you the choice as to whether or not the likeness of your Villain gets used in the next Hero's Safeguard as an NPC with the Dopple-script tied to it.

Likewise for Heroside.

 

It would be asynchronous, but it would definitely expand on the potential variety of threats in Mayhems/Safeguards.

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1 hour ago, FoulVileTerror said:

ALTHOUGH . . . what if it -is- an NPC of another player?

Do a Bank Heist, then upon Exit get a dialogue option giving you the choice as to whether or not the likeness of your Villain gets used in the next Hero's Safeguard as an NPC with the Dopple-script tied to it.

Likewise for Heroside.

 

It would be asynchronous, but it would definitely expand on the potential variety of threats in Mayhems/Safeguards.

 

That could be pretty entertaining... and certainly better than unexpected and probably unwanted PvP.

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6 hours ago, Twisted Toon said:

I think most people would be able to tell it was an actual player in about 5 seconds.

Players don't act (or react) anything like NPCs.

 

Also, if that happened to me, I would leave the mission.

I don't care for PvP most of the time.

I completely understand that. I'm sure there would be days when I would do the same. Some days, however...

But ..what if a corny chat dialogue appeared just as if it were an NPC - and they looked like an NPC - even though they were wearing their own costume? I think there'd be a way to disguise it...at least for about 10 seconds or so.

 

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On 9/25/2020 at 8:27 PM, TraumaTrain said:

I don't mean visual aesthetics so much, I mean setting aesthetics. The world and the NPCs and things in it. The stuff that makes up the place.

Okay, 

 

1. Wider, taller blue caves.  Most everyone hates them. I get that they create choke points and inhibit travel powers, but it makes navigating them a mess, particularly for our tall characters, especially if one has pulled the 3rd party camera view back a little.  Even with the camera closer in, it's virtually impossible to see the fight with characters stuffed in so tight and power light show effects going everywhere.

 

2.  I'd consider something to facilitate moving to the west side of Independence Point.  Either a tram station in the center, or possibly a hydrofoil ferry from the east side.  Currently it's generally ignored if you don't have a specific mission or Lusca fight to that side.  I'd even be willing to consider moving the south tram from east to west, and perhaps a bit more north.  Those needing a tram on the southeast are not terribly far from the Bricks tram.

 

3. Find something interactive to balance out the northeast sea corner (past the islands) and the south-southwest broken land corner of Talos Island.  These feel like vastly wasted space and out of balance with the other parts of Talos from an interactive interest standpoint.  (Yeah, I know there's a few NPCs hanging around on the broken land, but those, and a single badge marker are the only things over there.)  These might be locations for field boss fights, not unlike WoW's Hogger and company, or perhaps Scrapyard in our own game would be more comparative.  We could use another water giant monster besides Lusca (I'm not counting Sally).  Maybe the spawn of Chimera?  I'd likewise be all for a water event that starts with a hole being blown into the side of the war wall, and a swarm of gunboats fight their way through towards a designated target, let's say modern pirates trying to attack the transport ship sitting dead in the water (the one with the badge marker on it).  Hey, I can dream!

 

And just one in the visual category:  destroyed skyscrapers do not generally look like tilted, toppled, broken Jenga tower blocks.   Boomtown needs to visually look a bit more realistic to our post 9/11 understandings.

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On 9/27/2020 at 1:31 AM, FoulVileTerror said:

ALTHOUGH . . . what if it -is- an NPC of another player?

Do a Bank Heist, then upon Exit get a dialogue option giving you the choice as to whether or not the likeness of your Villain gets used in the next Hero's Safeguard as an NPC with the Dopple-script tied to it.

Likewise for Heroside.

 

It would be asynchronous, but it would definitely expand on the potential variety of threats in Mayhems/Safeguards.

I don't quite understand your sentence structure, but it sounds kind of like CO nemesis system?

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I'll try another format.

 

Play as Villain.

Complete a Mayhem Mission.

Receive dialogue box with the choice of placing an NPC copy of your Villain in to a queue for the next Hero Safeguard Mission to be the "final boss" of the Heist.

This NPC copy will work similarly to the Dopplegangers of Positron 1 / the Clones of Dean MacArthur's Story Arc.

Player of a Hero starts a Safeguard Mission.

They receive a dialogue box offering to give them a stronger challenge in the form of a player's Villain character.  

If they decline, the Hero just gets the regular NPC Villain which normally spawns.  If they accept, they receive a player-made Villain.

 

There's a lot more we could do with this as well, but this is just the basic idea.

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One thing.. well, how about several very similar things?

How about remodeling buildings and adding unique stores?

 

I don't mind the sameness of Paragon City buildings. And one thing PC has over Praetoria is actual stores.  I want to be able to enter Wizard's game and comic book store (can't recall the correct name) and compare it to my own store. 🙂 

So, when a PC zone is updated graphically some buildings can stay the same, others replaced by already existing newer ones. And, add one unique store to a zone, like Faultline has the donut shop and Yin's market. Make that unique store able to be entered and maybe have a repeatable mission inside.  Some store's interiors already exist in missions: Lou's Garage, pawn shops, jewelry stores, so use those interiors for unique shops. And add a couple gas stations!

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On 9/25/2020 at 8:24 PM, Rikis said:

As I played a Praetorian character again after a long time of not having played one, the difference between Praetoria and Paragon City are night and day. I'd play blue side if all the zones weren't as samey as they are now. Basically, a facelift of Paragon City to be more distinct like Praetoria.

This. So much this.

 

Outside of the revamped Atlas Park and Kallisti Wharf, Paragon City is ugly with little variety in style from zone to zone.

 

I’m pretty sure the exact same skyscrapers in Steel Canyon also line the edge of Perez Park, are on Talos Island and show up in Brickstown, PI and Dark Astoria. Hell, the same skyscraper model is repeated multiple times in Steel making it look like some dystopian housing projects instead of the financial heart of Paragon City it’s supposed to be.

 

The same with the endlessly repeating brownstones of Kings Row that show up on the edges of Steel, in Brickstown and Founders Falls and Peregrine Island.

 

Then you go into a hazard zone and look at the “skyscrapers” that are clearly just solid towers with pits blown out of them (versus First Ward’s ruins where you can see the interiors of different floors).

 

Then you go and look at the many different skyscrapers of Imperial City, the upscale apartments in Nova, the rundown projects on the west end of Neutropolis, the variety of run down, but still intact, buildings on the Northern half of First Ward.

 

You also see it in the props like the advanced holographic and touch displays that look more advanced than what we have even in 2020... much less the cathode ray tube monitors of Paragon City.

 

Frankly, I want to take all the beautiful buildings and improved atmospherics of Praetoria and put them into Paragon City. Re-establish the notion that Paragon and Praetoria are mirrors of each other to justify it.

 

Steel Canyon needs to look as gorgeous and upscale as Imperial City.

 

Brickstown and King’s Row needs the run down First Ward buildings interspersed to add variety.

 

Founders Falls needs the lighter and airier housing of Nova Praetoria to match its bridges instead of those heavy brownstones.

 

Talos has several missions involving radio/tv stations, so tear down some of the ugly towers and add a pallet swapped “Total Paragon News” campus. Also, I don’t care if was where the Rikti were held off in 2002; by 2012 (much less 2020) that ugly bare mound of dirt in the heart of Talos should be a proper memorial park, not an eyesore.

 

By the same token, I’d like to see the lava lake and sky colorization from the first “Who Will Die?” SSA incorporated permanently into the Hollows map. That would seriously pump up the uniqueness of that zone’s appearance.

 

* * * *

 

All the above said; the single biggest aesthetic change I’d make to Paragon City would be to remove the monorails and add a proper subway line.

 

The Trams are definitely not a design element that has aged well (seriously, the Epcot Center monorail from the 1980s looks more modern) and those tracks seriously clutter the skyline.

 

The subway access could be a fraction of the size (just put the clicky at the top of a staircase down and add an animation of walking down the stairs when it’s triggered and walking up when you arrive) making it much easier to incorporate one or more into existing zones without disrupting them much (ex. Faultline).

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42 minutes ago, gamingglen said:

One thing.. well, how about several very similar things?

How about remodeling buildings and adding unique stores?

 

 

I mentioned it a while back in another thread, but I presented an idea to the art director back in the OG game, to remodel parts of some zones to be ethnic communities, such as big cities have.  I suggested a Little Asia in Skyway for the Tsoo, and maybe remodel the largely-unused westside of Independence Point to have a Little Italy for the Family.  Brickstown might make a good location for a few Irish pubs, and the side areas of Steel might have room for a German community.  Likely there are other good group fits.

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  1. Give bodies of water the First Ward/Night Ward treatment. Add details and or depth to it instead of a nondescript blue nothing.
  2. Add some details to rooftops, especially in Praetoria. They granted all this rooftop access, yet they are for the most part barren. They need some parks or coffee shop seating up there.
  3.  I pitched this back during Legacy and I'll pitch it again here. Have at least one restaurant location in each zone that is a real location and can be entered by players with AE building style windows where you can actually look out of onto the city. This would provide desirable RP location other than Pocket D.

 

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4 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:
  1. Give bodies of water the First Ward/Night Ward treatment. Add details and or depth to it instead of a nondescript blue nothing.
  2. Add some details to rooftops, especially in Praetoria. They granted all this rooftop access, yet they are for the most part barren. They need some parks or coffee shop seating up there.
  3.  I pitched this back during Legacy and I'll pitch it again here. Have at least one restaurant location in each zone that is a real location and can be entered by players with AE building style windows where you can actually look out of onto the city. This would provide desirable RP location other than Pocket D.

 

#3 was one of the things I liked about CO. There were several restaurants in Millennium City that you could go inside. +1

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On 9/26/2020 at 12:32 AM, Heraclea said:

I find that I often have to fiddle with gamma to figure out what I am doing and where I am going in Dark Astoria door missions, myself.

Funny aside, after I finish editing my base and go to DA, there's no fog.  It's dark, sure, but I can see quite a ways.

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19 minutes ago, Xeres said:

Funny aside, after I finish editing my base and go to DA, there's no fog.  It's dark, sure, but I can see quite a ways.

Was that Dark Astoria--now remodelled to be red-toned and without fog as an Incarnate Zone--or was that Echo: Dark Astoria ?   The Echo should always have the fog.

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On 9/26/2020 at 10:26 AM, Twisted Toon said:

I think most people would be able to tell it was an actual player in about 5 seconds.

Players don't act (or react) anything like NPCs.

 

Also, if that happened to me, I would leave the mission.

I don't care for PvP most of the time.

Agree 100%

 

I would however, be perfectly on board with it using my characters powersets and costumes to appear as an actual NPC to be fought in someone else's mission.

Where I would not be in control of that clone at that point, it would just be the AI doiing it's best to use what powers it thought were most useful at any given moment.

 

Looks like @FoulVileTerror already posted that idea 13 hours ago. Man I gotta learn to read the whole thread before reacting and posting lol.

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1 hour ago, Jacke said:

Was that Dark Astoria--now remodelled to be red-toned and without fog as an Incarnate Zone--or was that Echo: Dark Astoria ?   The Echo should always have the fog.

Yes, the new one.  It doesn't have any fog after I edit my base and enter the zone, but if I then do a door mission and exit back into the zone the fog returns.

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Not completely certain this counts, but I can't be the only player with a tendency to make non-human characters.  Aliens, Robots, Demons, Kender or Whatever from [Enter Backstory and Cause of Arrival Here].  Literally anything that's actually not based on a human from Earth.  There's tons of this in various comics as both villain and hero. 

 

I'd like an option at character creation to just select Human/Non-Human and have that impact npc dialog results.  So, instead of DE calling my alien characters "human" they could say something like "You Cannot Save Them!" or "This is not your world!"  Clicking random Citizens could generate differently flavored reactions.

 

Minor stuff like that would be easier although still a monumental amount of digging through text and writing additional options. Never mind what it would take a lot to dig into arcs and change those interactions, like the Resistance contact that gets a crush on male characters - that was awkward since mine was stealth-kill-bot warworks/seer hybrid gradually developing it's own sentience.

 

I guess this is sort of like fleshing out origins and having them impact npc interactions on a more varied and deeper level.  Not missions or functional game-play, per se, but flavor dialog, basically.

 

Maybe it is just me, lol.

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I hear you on that one, @InvaderStych!

Pretty much straight from when I first started playing during Issue 0, I always wanted a way to flag my main as True Undead.  The game already has that flag in the files, and even though it would mechanically mean a penalty in the form of certain attacks dealing extra damage, I would gladly make that sacrifice to have the dialogue and narrative content adjusted appropriately.

It's a daunting prospect, but I think we could try to get a community project running to comb through all the dialogue and do some mark ups where such flags would be appropriate.  Granted, considering how other community projects have gone . . . well . . . might need some encouragement from the Homecoming Team to let us know that it wouldn't just all be for naught.  Might help motivation. 

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On 9/30/2020 at 1:52 PM, FoulVileTerror said:

The game already has that flag in the files, and even though it would mechanically mean a penalty in the form of certain attacks dealing extra damage, I would gladly make that sacrifice to have the dialogue and narrative content adjusted appropriately.

 

Ok, finally circling back around to this.

 

It never occurred to me that there were existing flags that could be used for this, but you are right and there are probably several others that could potentially be leveraged.  I hadn't considered actual effects for game mechanics, but it would be a way to deepen Origins and give them a bit more impact on the way a character plays which is something I recall many of us asking for from day 0.

 

So, just in the interest of tossing out some random thoughts:

 

Not really replacing Origin, but working in conjunction to flesh out backstory.  So you're a Demon?  Were you summoned by a Magic ritual that went wrong and you broke free, or did Portal Corp get the math (Science) wrong and crack open your front door?  Are you an alien that uses Tech or some set of abilities Natural to your species?

 

It does open a bit of a worm can; some flags might be too generic (Ice Demon vs. Fire Demon), and others might give too strong a benefit - Robots having Psi resistance which is otherwise relatively uncommon.  If the list of possible types is known then a subset of "Here's your upside, and here's your downside" could be established and balanced. 

 

Though there would probably be some player resistance to taking on a "downside" on an existing character, no matter how minor or what "upside" it comes with.  Nothing wrong with that, we all come to games for different things.

 

Actually, knowing the list of these would help flesh out a plan, because I'm sure no matter how long, something that someone can imagine is missing.😄 Either way, figuring out the flavors informs how to edit the text and narrative experience(s).  Impact on game mechanics could follow that or not, depending on Dev/Player reception.

 

Adding something to character creation is one thing, but I'd have no idea how daunting of a code problem it would be to grant this selection option to the thousands of existing characters out there.

 

On 9/30/2020 at 1:52 PM, FoulVileTerror said:

... to have the dialogue and narrative content adjusted appropriately. It's a daunting prospect, but I think we could try to get a community project running to comb through all the dialogue and do some mark ups where such flags would be appropriate.  Granted, considering how other community projects have gone . . . well . . .

 

Safe to assume the direction of many forum-based community projects?  Heh.  Well, I'd be in for some scrubbing for dialog to edit/editing/narrative/etc work as that's more my skill set and a side-project like this leans into some related things I'm working on learning.  I'm definitely not a programmer even if I am just tech-savvy enough to hold an extremely brief conversation with one. 😄

 

It would have to be one of those incremental progress things though, small bits over time.  "Harness Frequency" is the term I believe.  Anyway, I'm down for some further exploration to see if the idea has legs.  If it looks like there's viability and interest then a team could start working on the Flavor Flags and digging around to get a sense of the scope of the text editing work.

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3 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

Though there would probably be some player resistance to taking on a "downside" on an existing character, no matter how minor or what "upside" it comes with.  Nothing wrong with that, we all come to games for different things.

 

Actually, knowing the list of these would help flesh out a plan, because I'm sure no matter how long, something that someone can imagine is missing.😄 Either way, figuring out the flavors informs how to edit the text and narrative experience(s).  Impact on game mechanics could follow that or not, depending on Dev/Player reception.

 

Adding something to character creation is one thing, but I'd have no idea how daunting of a code problem it would be to grant this selection option to the thousands of existing characters out there.

 

I'll tackle two problems in one answer.  Have the setting of this character flag be something that can be done optionally after character creation.  It could be an option put into the P2W Vendor so that it's available from the start of play, even in tutorials... or pick it up (or drop it) when you get to the regular play zone (Atlas or Mercy).  This lets reluctant players opt out of character affecting changes they may not want by simply not adding it to their character(s), and it avoids having to code it into the character creation screen.  Maybe also have it be semi-permanent.  You can only choose at the P2W Vendor, but if you're not happy with your choice (or your character's backstory evolves), then have an option for Null the Gull in Pocket D remove an existing choice so you can choose again.

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Aesthetically, I would like to see older hair styles tweaked (or given alternate versions with more detail) to fit with the better detailing of the newer styles.

 

I would also like to see all gender-specific hair styles ported over to their opposite sides.

 

I would also like to see a lot of older costume pieces get revamped alternate options... maybe add illuminated bits to some pieces.  It would be really cool if the Gem chest detail had an empty, a gem, and an illuminated option like the Retro gloves and boots.  The gem belt would be a good candidate for this, as would some of the tech belts.

 

...or give Tights or No Tights versions where appropriate (for example, the old bands style braces are worn on bare arms only.... would love to see a version with tights the way the Roman bracers have.  Same with the other bracers... also the slippers and sneakers would be nice to have with Tights options.

 

Would also like to see some of the masks, gloves, boots, parts "with skin", and skirts get shiny tights versions to match up with the shiny tights option.  It's kind of lame looking to have a full body tights top with shiny tights blending into a dull face mask or Bottom with skin.

 

There's a lot of existing pieces that could be made into completely different extras with minor tweaks.

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