Focused Feedback: Travel Updates: Base Teleportation, Long Range Teleporter Accolade, Special TP Powers

[Gunrunner]

5 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

probably crafting and needed salvage

This.  At least once a day, a dozen back-and-forths inside of half an hour, and that's with full salvage racks at my fingertips.  Basing calculations on averages doesn't really take into account the far ends of the curve.

[Heraclea]

4 minutes ago, Gunrunner said:

I'm going to point this out again:  if part of the solution is stating "The command is still there, you just need to be within arms reach of a portal to use it!", then we're wading in bullcrap deep enough to require a snorkel.  If you're literally inside clicking distance of a portal, why would you use the command?  More to the point, if the issue with the command is so much greater then we mere mortals know, why are we keeping it at all?

Established supergroups start bumping into the alliance limits, which are rather small and might profitably be given a pass here as well since all of this is up for discussion.  This semi-accomodates people who have a large number of bases they visit regularly using passcodes, more than they are allowed as allies.  Apparently this happens often among dedicated roleplayers. 

[Mr. Vee]

28 minutes ago, Gunrunner said:

I'm going to point this out again:  if part of the solution is stating "The command is still there, you just need to be within arms reach of a portal to use it!", then we're wading in bullcrap deep enough to require a snorkel.  If you're literally inside clicking distance of a portal, why would you use the command? 

Because clicking the portal brings up a menu with your base, coalition bases and a passcode option and requires another click. 

[honoroit]

31 minutes ago, Gunrunner said:

You can get Reveal for 10k, this is the number we should be looking at.

Yes. 

[ivanhedgehog]

1 hour ago, Gunrunner said:

See, that's the problem.  This "Much greater issue at play!" that keeps getting bandied about.  We've been told it's a handshake-authorization thing, but as far as we can tell it's an exploit that has the potential for abuse, and has not actually been abused.  So on a maybe-possibly-whothehellknows reason, one of the best QoL things ever is being replaced by an array of kludges that don't satisfy anyone.  And what's worse, we are barred from knowing just what this problem is, until it's too late for us to offer suggestions on how to fix it.

 

I dunno about you, but I'm mildly put off by such a state of affairs.  Were it me, and it's obviously not, my response would be: "Here's what we got.  This is the problem.  We're gonna tell you up front, you get caught doing this, you get banned forfuggingever.  Help us resolve this issue".  If it's in reality not an avoid-death thing, but an actual gamebreaking exploit, I imagine the vast bulk of players will completely step up to help.  Those that try to screw us all will get yanked in short order.  Maybe it's so heinous that we'll with a single voice gasp in abject horror, and happily test out solutions.  Maybe it's not, and what we're seeing is a retail reaction to a pserver issue.

 

I am going with taking their word about the exploit, I will assume its there, I am not at all good about ferretting these things out. Teleport will be changing and that is a simple fact. They wont be backing off of this and that is fine, it isnt worth arguing about. Lets talk and see if there is anything we can do to make it a smoother, better change. Currently it doesnt look like there will be any chance for discussions about making the change less cludgetastic. It looks like plans were made before most players were even in the loop. hopefully they can be refined to something better. Currently we have people giving some nice ideas and people telling you that you just need to play City of Teleport to keep your current mobility. Nothing can really change until the devs put out a patch or 2 and maybe we can have a dialog. Lets just stay civil and let things simmer, nothing will be happening any time soon.

 

edit: I found what the exploit is and it needs to be fixed. rather badly actually. this change will be happening, lets work together to make it not painful.

Edited October 30, 2020 by ivanhedgehog

[Mystic_Cross]

On 10/24/2020 at 7:44 AM, Jimmy said:

New Accolade: Long Range Teleporter

•  Long Range Teleporter
  • Long Range Teleport has been removed from the Teleportation pool and is now an Accolade power
  • Long Range Teleporter is unlocked when you earn your first Exploration accolade from one of the unlockable zones, and it can take you to any unlockable zone which you have the Exploration accolade for
  • Every zone previously accessible via Long Range Teleport is available to unlock, plus Rikti War Zone, Dark Astoria, Night Ward and Striga Isle (and Kallisti Wharf has been removed until it gets exploration badges) - here's a complete list:

  Reveal hidden contents

Paragon City

• Atlas Park
• Kings Row
• The Hollows
• Skyway City
• Faultline
• Steel Canyon
• Talos Island
• Independence Port
• Croatoa
• Brickstown
• Founders' Falls
• Peregrine Island
• Rikti War Zone
• Dark Astoria
• Striga Isle

Rogue Isles

• Mercy Island
• Port Oakes
• Cap Au Diable
• Sharkhead Isle
• Nerva Archipelago
• St. Martial
• Grandville

Praetoria

• Nova Praetoria
• Imperial City
• Neutropolis
• First Ward
• Night Ward

So far I'm liking this power. It auto-granted to me when I logged in and seems to be working fine. One problem I have with it is that when you "cancel" out of the teleport list without using one, the power goes on cooldown... and the cooldown is pretty long. Looks like I still need to collect RWZ and DA for a complete list.

 

 

 

On 10/24/2020 at 7:44 AM, Jimmy said:

Special Teleportation Powers

•  Base Teleporter (Day Job Power)
  • This power no longer requires the Rapid Response Member Accolade to earn, and has replaced the Monitor Duty (prestige boost) day job power
  • Recharge time reduced from 600s to 30s
    • This would be 0s, but we wanted to prevent accidental double usage as this power has limited charges
  • Activation time reduced from 15s to 10s

 

It would be nice if you applied the fixes above to the Long Range Teleporter 😄

 

 

On 10/24/2020 at 7:44 AM, Jimmy said:

•  Supergroup Portal (New P2W Power)
  • Available from P2W for 10 million influence
  • Summons a base portal on the ground that lasts for 90 seconds (even after you leave the zone)
  • 30 minute cooldown, unaffected by global recharge buffs (matches Team Transporter)
  • Cannot be used in Ouroboros, Tutorial or PvP Zones
  • Summoning a base portal will remove other summoned portals within a 15ft radius (to avoid blocking contacts, doors, etc)
•  Rapid Response Portal (New Day Job Power)
  • A new day job power which replaces the Base Teleporter Power
  • Summons a base portal on the ground that lasts for 90 seconds (even after you leave the zone)
  • 90 second cooldown
  • Cannot be used in Ouroboros, Tutorial or PvP Zones
  • Summoning a base portal will remove other summoned portals within a 15ft radius (to avoid blocking contacts, doors, etc)
•  Ouroboros Portal
  • Can now be used from level 1, rather than level 14, in any zone that is not a tutorial zone
  • Can now be entered by characters of any level
  • Can now be summoned while flying (but must still target the ground)
  • Now lasts 90 seconds instead of 5 minutes, but will remain in place after you leave the zone

 

These look interesting and it will be nice to get Ouro use from level 1.  

 

[ShardWarrior]

9 hours ago, honoroit said:

There, I'd ask devs to describe the design intent, which I suspect might be: we want you in the world of homecoming, we want new players to see cool veterans zooming by... maybe helping them right quick if they're overwhelmed by a spawn.. or smacking the spawn and stealing xp share, out of badness. 

 

Encounters, with other players. 

Again, the slash command was never an instant teleport from one mission door to the next.  Players are still traveling about in zones doing normal game business.  Even with the slash command, you see other players around, especially places like AP. 

[Blackbird71]

Here's just a random thought to help improve the travel situation in general:  how about if mission contacts in a zone actually gave you missions in that zone?  I know it would cut down on a lot of my inter-zone travel needs.

[Lines]

18 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

Here's just a random thought to help improve the travel situation in general:  how about if mission contacts in a zone actually gave you missions in that zone?  I know it would cut down on a lot of my inter-zone travel needs.

I agree with this, and not just for the sake of convenience. I think it's a better narrative opportunity to give stories and events a sense of place in the city. It needn't be with every mission where it's already contextualised somewhere specific, but it would be good for this to become the general rule.

 

It's been suggested before and I like it - it's a big job, though, so doubtful it'll happen this page.

 

[cloak3.141]

This post may be in vane, because I think the developers have already fled all the whining in this thread.  First, I again want to thank the developers for their hard work.  Second, I don't want a game designed by committee.  I GM roleplaying games, and one thing I have learned, is a player will know when they are not having fun, but they are terrible about trying to advise what they think would be fun.

 

I am warming up to the Long Range Teleport exploration power.  One of the main problems I have with it, is finding all the badges.  Let's be honest, a player isn't just going to canvas a zone, looking in every nook and cranny to find the exploration badges, that would take hours per zone.  Almost everyone is going to load some sort of external resource like vidiot maps and find the badges that way.  I sacrificed my second monitor to my wife for work-from-home setup reasons, so I would currently have to tab back and forth on screens.  I just don't think I am going to bother.

 

My suggestion:  I would love to see a "Tour Guide" NPC added to every zone, maybe right near the Tram or Ferry?  This NPC would give an exploration badge patrol mission.  Marking each badge location on the map, one by one, for the player to go investigate.  It would make the exploration badging for Long Range Teleport easier, and keep players immersed in the game, rather than pulling them out to external resources.  Maybe some of the hazard zones don't have 'Tour Guides', making them 'hard' badge zones.

 

I am glad that this game has a community that feels so passionate about the game.   Game on!

[drbuzzard]

16 minutes ago, cloak3.141 said:

My suggestion:  I would love to see a "Tour Guide" NPC added to every zone, maybe right near the Tram or Ferry?  This NPC would give an exploration badge patrol mission.  Marking each badge location on the map, one by one, for the player to go investigate.  It would make the exploration badging for Long Range Teleport easier, and keep players immersed in the game, rather than pulling them out to external resources.  Maybe some of the hazard zones don't have 'Tour Guides', making them 'hard' badge zones.

I quite like this idea. As I'm in no way a badger, this would at least make it easy enough to accomplish even if still a bit tedious. I have the vidiot maps installed, and it remains a bother to collect all the badges (that I rarely do, and hence I almost never have accolades).

[ABlueThingy]

27 minutes ago, cloak3.141 said:

This post may be in vane, because I think the developers have already fled all the whining in this thread.  First, I again want to thank the developers for their hard work.  Second, I don't want a game designed by committee.  I GM roleplaying games, and one thing I have learned, is a player will know when they are not having fun, but they are terrible about trying to advise what they think would be fun.

 

I am warming up to the Long Range Teleport exploration power.  One of the main problems I have with it, is finding all the badges.  Let's be honest, a player isn't just going to canvas a zone, looking in every nook and cranny to find the exploration badges, that would take hours per zone.  Almost everyone is going to load some sort of external resource like vidiot maps and find the badges that way.  I sacrificed my second monitor to my wife for work-from-home setup reasons, so I would currently have to tab back and forth on screens.  I just don't think I am going to bother.

 

My suggestion:  I would love to see a "Tour Guide" NPC added to every zone, maybe right near the Tram or Ferry?  This NPC would give an exploration badge patrol mission.  Marking each badge location on the map, one by one, for the player to go investigate.  It would make the exploration badging for Long Range Teleport easier, and keep players immersed in the game, rather than pulling them out to external resources.  Maybe some of the hazard zones don't have 'Tour Guides', making them 'hard' badge zones.

 

I am glad that this game has a community that feels so passionate about the game.   Game on!

 

I love this, this is a great idea.  More ways to interact with and in the game world is a plus.

 

 

[arthurh35353]

I'm pretty sure they've decided that would defeat the purpose of badge exploration accolades.

[Jimmy]

We have actually discussed something very similar to the Tour Guide idea. It’s not happening in Page 1 but I would like to see it in the future.

[QuiJon]

3 hours ago, cloak3.141 said:

I GM roleplaying games, and one thing I have learned, is a player will know when they are not having fun, but they are terrible about trying to advise what they think would be fun.

And what makes you think the people complaining about the change just dont "know" they would be having fun? I was playing this game in april of 2004 when your only travel mode was your travel power and a tram network that didnt even go to some places. And you didnt get full travel powers untill level 14. Super group bases were not even around when when they were smaller SG didnt even have full transporters because you actually had to play to earn the resource to buy them and doing so cost you influence during game play. 

 

Many of us have played the jump through hoops, how to get here or there BS that this new system wants to impose on us, and we are complaining because we found it detracted from our fun. And most of us have played with what we consider a QoL improvement not an exploit (because we didnt exploit it and not being admin it was just a means of travel to us) and we know we had more fun with the QoL improvement that the slash command gave us. 

 

None of us i dont think are saying to leave and exploit in the game, we are just saying it seems we should be able to keep the QoL and plug the exploit. Because that is what we KNOW we found the most fun for us. And we are trying to offer solutions within that spirit. 

[dtj714]

Sorry if it’s already been addressed in the prior 22 pages, but why are the recharges on Mission Transporter and Team Transporter not being reduced to 10 minutes too?

 

Also, based on all the proposed changes, it seems like the most efficient combo is:

 

1. If it’s reachable by Tram/Tunnel, then Ouro port -> Ouro -> Talos -> Tram/Tunnel to destination (could also get Talos accolade and go there direct).
2. If not reachable by Tram/Tunnel, then Base port -> Base -> beacon to destination.

3. Always log out so you’re building Base Teleport charges. 

This requires only 3 powers and limited base building.  Everything else seems superfluous?

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by dtj714

[Coyotedancer]

45 minutes ago, dtj714 said:

Sorry if it’s already been addressed in the prior 22 pages, but why are the recharges on Mission Transporter and Team Transporter not being reduced to 10 minutes too?

 

Also, based on all the proposed changes, it seems like the most efficient combo is:

 

1. If it’s reachable by Tram/Tunnel, then Ouro port -> Ouro -> Talos -> Tram/Tunnel to destination. 
2. If not reachable by Tram/Tunnel, then Base port -> Base -> beacon to destination.

3. Always log out so you’re building Base Teleport charges. 

This requires only 3 powers and limited base building.  Everything else seems superfluous?

 

 

 

The LRT (if you've got the badges for it-) is more efficient than any of those for those of us who are stuck with slower-than-proverbial-Christmas loading times. 

[AboveTheChemist]

6 hours ago, cloak3.141 said:

My suggestion:  I would love to see a "Tour Guide" NPC added to every zone, maybe right near the Tram or Ferry?  This NPC would give an exploration badge patrol mission.  Marking each badge location on the map, one by one, for the player to go investigate.  It would make the exploration badging for Long Range Teleport easier, and keep players immersed in the game, rather than pulling them out to external resources.  Maybe some of the hazard zones don't have 'Tour Guides', making them 'hard' badge zones.

I'm still in the testing phase at the moment, but I am working on a way to generate travelling salesperson solutions for all the badges/plaques (and I might do a separate version for just badges) in a zone, to plot out a (more or less) optimal path for gathering same. I was thinking of making it available as a module for my offline map viewer, but if there is interest I think I could offer it as a modified version of vidiotmaps, viewable in-game without needing external resources.

 

There is a lot of work between now and then, but I was hoping to publish an initial set of maps in the next week or two. I'll probably show redside some love and use the Rogue Isles maps as my first test set of maps.

 

I really wish there were a slash command to create thumbtacks on the map (something like '/thumbtack <coords>'), then I could just implement this as a set of rolling keybinds and it would function much more like the tour guide NPC idea. As far as I know, though, such a command does not exist.

Edited October 30, 2020 by AboveTheChemist
typos

[ShardWarrior]

6 hours ago, cloak3.141 said:

My suggestion:  I would love to see a "Tour Guide" NPC added to every zone, maybe right near the Tram or Ferry?  This NPC would give an exploration badge patrol mission.  Marking each badge location on the map, one by one, for the player to go investigate.  It would make the exploration badging for Long Range Teleport easier, and keep players immersed in the game, rather than pulling them out to external resources.  Maybe some of the hazard zones don't have 'Tour Guides', making them 'hard' badge zones.

Love this idea!  There is so much lore that gets missed if you do not get exploration and plaques. 

[QuiJon]

20 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Love this idea!  There is so much lore that gets missed if you do not get exploration and plaques. 

It still would be missed. I have a few toons that i have explorer badges on. I have not read a badge plaque since 2004. And frankly i think i stopped reading those half way through the city also. Clicking a badge plaque or getting an explore badge that you never read still doesnt teach someone the lore. The people that dont care to know it still wont read it, and those that do already know it. So making explorer badges by way of a tour guide or just a requirement for a travel power still doesnt accomplish that goal unless you figure on adding a test afterward to make sure the players have learned it all. 

[Heraclea]

3 hours ago, dtj714 said:

Sorry if it’s already been addressed in the prior 22 pages, but why are the recharges on Mission Transporter and Team Transporter not being reduced to 10 minutes too?

 

Also, based on all the proposed changes, it seems like the most efficient combo is:

 

1. If it’s reachable by Tram/Tunnel, then Ouro port -> Ouro -> Talos -> Tram/Tunnel to destination (could also get Talos accolade and go there direct).
2. If not reachable by Tram/Tunnel, then Base port -> Base -> beacon to destination.

3. Always log out so you’re building Base Teleport charges. 

This requires only 3 powers and limited base building.  Everything else seems superfluous?

If solo, what I find myself doing is LFG queue to Citadel or Posi > base > base beacon for just about everything.  And I still log out all eligible toons (which when this hits will be all toons) in Cimerora. 

[Sovera]

The idea that people organically find the badges is sheer nonsense, sorry. Just looking at the badges needed for the four accolades that give HP and endurance shows the insanity of expecting a player to actually find all the plaques and badges on their own as they happen to explore or by following vague hints (I'm not even 100% sure badges do come with hints?). Heck, the first times it took me easily two hours and that was -with- coordinates and screenshots. Now I have it down to less than 40 minutes by dint of sheer repetition.

 

The only thing that will happen is the devs telling the players to find the badges and the players will goggle them or use Videots. At this point we need to consider what is the purpose of badge hunting for this particular task at hand. Is it to time sink? Do we need time sinks if we are not playing a sub? Is it for the lore? I don't think players rushing to get their teleport unlock are really going to care about it. Will the badges be in evidence that it does not require a quick trip to paragonwiki to uncover their location?

 

There is a balance to be made between just giving away stuff like a cheat code and offering something players can work for, but if it involves just copy pasting coordinates from a third party site is it really that involved?

 

Now if Videot was part of the base game, then yeah, okay, and actually why shouldn't it be? Does anyone believe for a second any badger is actually organically exploring the game content and uncovering all the possible badges? Make it a little checkbox in the map that reveals all badges and then badge involving quests can be added in more naturally.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Sovera

[Glacier Peak]

52 minutes ago, Sovera said:

The idea that people organically find the badges is sheer nonsense, sorry. Just looking at the badges needed for the four accolades that give HP and endurance shows the insanity of expecting a player to actually find all the plaques and badges on their own as they happen to explore or by following vague hints (I'm not even 100% sure badges do come with hints?). Heck, the first times it took me easily two hours and that was -with- coordinates and screenshots. Now I have it down to less than 40 minutes by dint of sheer repetition.

 

The only thing that will happen is the devs telling the players to find the badges and the players will goggle them or use Videots. At this point we need to consider what is the purpose of badge hunting for this particular task at hand. Is it to time sink? Do we need time sinks if we are not playing a sub? Is it for the lore? I don't think players rushing to get their teleport unlock are really going to care about it. Will the badges be in evidence that it does not require a quick trip to paragonwiki to uncover their location?

 

There is a balance to be made between just giving away stuff like a cheat code and offering something players can work for, but if it involves just copy pasting coordinates from a third party site is it really that involved?

 

Now if Videot was part of the base game, then yeah, okay, and actually why shouldn't it be? Does anyone believe for a second any badger is actually organically exploring the game content and uncovering all the possible badges? Make it a little checkbox in the map that reveals all badges and then badge involving quests can be added in more naturally.

I enjoying finding badges. With or without the assistance of outside resources or fellow players. People will play this game how they want within the confines of what is possible. I made a badge hunting character specifically with the intention of not using outside resources. I've found many badges. Some from previous experience, some from circumstance. My main badger is fun too, checking off whatever is left in each category feels great and satiates my abnormal desire to correct everything 100% when I play a video game. So that being said I respect, but disagree with your opinion. There's no outside power forcing you to get anything in game to have fun or forcing you to play this game at all. You make the choices for how or if you want to play, you determine the risk versus the reward. You, just like everyone else, gets to decide what is fun for you.

[arthurh35353]

Some of these badges require knowing where they are and actively hunting them to find them. You aren't going to just randomly run into some of them unless you scour whole zones for them.

 

That is not 'finding them organically' while playing the game.

[ShardWarrior]

4 hours ago, QuiJon said:

It still would be missed. I have a few toons that i have explorer badges on. I have not read a badge plaque since 2004. And frankly i think i stopped reading those half way through the city also. Clicking a badge plaque or getting an explore badge that you never read still doesnt teach someone the lore. The people that dont care to know it still wont read it, and those that do already know it. So making explorer badges by way of a tour guide or just a requirement for a travel power still doesnt accomplish that goal unless you figure on adding a test afterward to make sure the players have learned it all. 

Not everyone playing is a veteran of the game.