Jump to content

Blue and Red (and Gold?) : The Myth


Recommended Posts

On 11/10/2020 at 2:48 AM, UltraAlt said:

I will start out by saying that I have never liked the use of the terms Blue and Red in regards to which "side" a character is on or looking for a group. (no need to go into you Praetorians as you are all but non-existent, but enjoy playing the game the way you like).

 

I feel the use of Blue and Red undermines what the game is about. Heroes fighting against the forces of evil and villainy. This is why City of Heroes was created.

 

I'm not trying to knock those that want to play villains. The game aspect is there. Enjoy it if you like it, but you are a villain and not "red".

 

So where did this red/blue thing come from?

It's pretty simple. Red is 3 letters. Villain is 7 letters. People are lazy. (Especially villains?)

Hero is 4 letters, and so is blue. No advantage to a hero to call themselves blue unless they are sad.

 

With less than 30% of the population being villains, there is no reason for heroes to bother adding "blue" when asking for teams.

It can be assumed that you are looking for a hero team. (and certainly not a Praetorian team. Sorry Praetorians.)

 

Villains can keep saying "red" because they are too lazy to type "villain" or to avoid admitting that they are playing villains.

If you are "red", you are a villian.

 

City of HEROES. Not City of BLUES.

 

You are obviously not ex military. they understand blue force/red force

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/14/2020 at 5:32 PM, ivanhedgehog said:

You are obviously not ex military. they understand blue force/red force

I'm not sure what being ex military or not has to do with understanding blue and red forces.

The red forces are the enemy.

It's that way in most video games.

Heck, it was like that on old game board with chits battle simulations. But people would be saying at they were playing the Allies or the Axis and not the Blues and the Reds.

 

70% of the player base is playing heroes at any given time.

There is no need for heroes to use the term Blue.

Hero and Blue has the same number of characters.

They are playing heroes, not blues.

If you are running a team and recruiting, it can be assumed that you are running a hero team unless you say otherwise.

 

I'm not going to team with sad people.

  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you like hammocks?

 

Is the cord or string strong enough?

AE SFMA Arcs: Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part One. (Arc id 26756) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Two. (Arc id 26952) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Three. (Arc id 27233) 

Darker Deeds: Part One (Arc id 28374) | Darker Deeds: Part Two. (Arc id 28536) Darker Deeds: Part Three. (Arc id 29252) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part One (Arc id 29891) |

Darkest Before Dawn: Part Two (Arc id 30210) Darkest Before Dawn: Part Three (Arc id 30560) | Bridge of Forever ( Arc id 36642)*The Cassini Division (Arc id 37104)*The House of Gaunt Saints (Arc id 37489)*

 

*Pre War Praetorian Loyalist.

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

Why do heroes need to be consistent with the minority?

Why do you think it's funny to play an overbearing control freak, bent on making everyone sumbit to your POV, like a Dictator, then call yourself a Hero?

Why should any of us be consistent with your minority POV?

Why does anyone think, even in jest, these sorts of passive aggressive missives have positive value in the community?

 

If we are going to start asking 'Why?', I have a lot of questions.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

And really now . . . if -anyone- is going to support a minority, @UltraAlt, then it's going to be heroes.

Check the in-game lore.  We've got plenty of examples of it already.

Yeah, but aren't going to be supporting villains unless they are going rogue.

And support is different than compromising as well.

 

Villains can be red all day if they want. I could care-less, but heroes shouldn't call themselves blue simply because villains don't want to take the time to type a couple more characters.

Edited by UltraAlt
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Why do you think it's funny to play an overbearing control freak, bent on making everyone sumbit to your POV, like a Dictator, then call yourself a Hero?

Why should any of us be consistent with your minority POV?

Why does anyone think, even in jest, these sorts of passive aggressive missives have positive value in the community?

I don't seem to be imposing my will on anyone. It seems a topic that people like to post about.

Why should anyone be consistent with any point of view? 

I am stating my view point and defending it. Nothing more than goes on in any other thread.

 

The fact is, it is something that goes on that heroes don't need to be a part of.

 

I do think it takes away from the flavor of the game.

 

We all have the ability to post on things that we are interested in posting about.

 

Apparently, you find it enjoyable to post here ...with the simple aim of attacking me. And, yeah, calling me a dictator or an overbearing control freak is a direct attack on me.

Is making personal attacks on someone a benefit to the community?

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

A real hero supports everyone doing the noble and just thing, regardless of labels or past deeds.

If a "hero" doesn't support a villain doing the right thing, just because that person is a villain, then the aforementioned "hero" is actually a vigilante.

Okay, I bite.

How is using the terms, red and blue noble and just?

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

I don't seem to be imposing my will on anyone. It seems a topic that people like to post about.

Why should anyone be consistent with any point of view? 

I am stating my view point and defending it. Nothing more than goes on in any other thread.

 

The fact is, it is something that goes on that heroes don't need to be a part of.

 

I do think it takes away from the flavor of the game.

 

We all have the ability to post on things that we are interested in posting about.

 

Apparently, you find it enjoyable to post here ...with the simple aim of attacking me. And, yeah, calling me a dictator or an overbearing control freak is a direct attack on me.

Is making personal attacks on someone a benefit to the community?

You sound like what I describe.

If that is not what you intend to sound like, then perhaps you should change your language, I get told that a lot around here...

 

I thought you were trying to be funny and failing.

It appears you are actually serious, which TBH, is actually really funny/scary, and failing.

 

I find your outlook and your words to be abhorrent, personally, but I don't know anything about you as person, that is not my concern.

 

If you want to restrict the speech of others, then IMO, you sound like a Dictator.

Your 'facts' are just your erroneous opinion.

Pretty simple formula.

 

So no, I don't care one but about your 'personal character', only about the crap you post as fact when it's just delusional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

"Just and noble" is definitely a stretch for this particular topic, and I used the exaggeration partially in jest, but not entirely unfit given the whole picture.

Because the labels of "hero," "villain," and all of that describe not just the action, but the motivation behind that action, and the general trend of behaviour that leads to becoming one of those things.

Redside and Blueside are used to describe the environments.  The locations.

We've talked about it in the past in other threads, but there's a call for "Redside Heroes," and "Blueside Villains."

Your efforts to conflate the concepts ultimately comes across as trying to pigeonhole people as good or evil merely on -where- they end up spending their time.  And that's bad.

For now, since the content isn't really there to support it, we generally use a shorthand.  When someone says they're recruiting for a "Redside DFB," it has less to do with the people in that team being villains, and everything to do with the game's restriction to having to recruit from a pool of people in the same classification of zones as yourself.

 

I think you should probably shelve this discussion until such time as the community has had suitable time to re-evaluate said shorthand in light of Redside Hero content and Blueside Villain content being introduced to the game.

THEN there will probably be a call for sorting out the language.  For now?   This thread is being treated a joke by the vast majority of people posting in it, as near as I can tell.  And to be equitable:  It's a joke that has a tinge of serious discussion, of course.  In the form of calling out the ridiculousness of arguing about labels that are ultimately meaningless at this time, but also to provide feedback about the structure of the game as it relates to the structure of its narrative.

And hammering so hard against the use of the existing shorthand which the community has embraced isn't doing anything good, or noble, or just.  At most?  We might be able to call you an Anti-Villain for bringing so much of the community together on a particular topic, to share in our united disagreement with the alternative.

 

Right now?

Blueside is the colloquial we have as a community for Paragon City, Striga, the Shadow Shard, and all those zones which exclude players flagged as Villains, despite the actual narrative or gameplay elements related to villainous characters being in those zones, and

Redside is Best Side.

Maybe that'll change some day.  But I really don't think it will have anything to do with this thread, and everything to do with the game actually changing to necessitate those labels needing to have their definitions shifted.

 

Edited by CrudeVileTerror
Corrected a sentence by adding a crucial "not."
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

*goes and robs the bank in Founders while the "hero"-types are all too distracted arguing over colors to notice the alarms going off*

I think they were having issues determining whether the lights for the alarms should be called "red", "blue", "bad guy on the grounds", "good guy summoners", or just "You're too late. The bad guy got away while you were busy arguing about labels that don't really matter".

 

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

Your efforts to conflate the concepts ultimately comes across as trying to pigeonhole people as good or evil merely on -where- they end up spending their time.  And that's bad.

This is a game about heroes and villains - and has tip missions that allow  you to chose the path of your character's morality.

If your character is running around doing villain missions then you are playing as a villain. The missions are villainous.

 

The Hero side is doing missions that are supposed to be for the good of the City and to repel the alien invaders.

 

I'm not pigeonholing people. Characters? Yes. Villains are villains until they change their alignment. If you are a vigilante running missions on the villain side, I consider them to be taking villainous actions.

Characters. Not people.

 

People can decide to only play villains. That's their way to play the game.

 

To make my points clear ::

1) I - myself - do not like seeing the terms blue and red used when recruiting for teams. (I'm not going to join any teams that recruit and use the term blue. I'm just not going to do it any more. Don't want me on your team? Use the term blue when recruiting.  I tend to be very helpful on any team that I'm on. We all make decisions about how we play the game.)

2) I - myself - believe that the color terms started to be used because villains were too lazy to type more characters and choose to use the term red instead  - and that those villain players started using the term blue when playing on the hero side.

3) I - myself - believe that heroes never had a need - even before the sunset - to use that term blue when recruiting. A majority of the games population has always played heroes and on the hero side.

4) I - myself - clearly see that the populations that are showing up when you go look at them on the server listings show that - at the most, and, often, it is quite lower - 30% of the game population is showing up as villains at any given time.  For this reason, I -myself - believe there is no reason for a hero team to need to indicate at all that they are a hero team as that is 70% of the games population.

5) I - myself - believe that since hero and blue have the same number of letters that there is no reason to use the term blue - but, noting above, I don't think think that a hero recruiting needs to be noting either. 

6) I do think villains are lazy because they want to steal instead of work for something, they like to break the law as long as they can get away with it, etc. Characters are villains, I'm not calling players villains. Characters are different than players, and there shouldn't be any confusion about that.

7) The game is about heroes and villains (and the the two alignments between those groups ... and, yeah, the Praetorians [I will admit I pick on the few valiant players that play Praetorians]). The game is not based on Blue and Red. City of Heroes. City of Villains. Good versus Evil (edition).

8 ) I - myself - believe that the game when Rogue (For real) when City of Heroes :: Going Rogue was released and the line was blurred between the two sides and was disastrous for the City of Heroes franchise on multiple levels. 

 

These are all my opinions. Opinions that I wanted to share because it is something that I felt that I need to express.

 

I only have 2 villains. And they are villains. They are not nice people.

One would rob you blind and leave you not knowing what week it is. The other would poison you and leave you for dead if they felt like it.

They are villains.

 

I don't play myself in this game. I play characters. Each character has their own motivations - even if I can't use the game to express that clearly at all times.

 

These are forums to discuss the game and how we play it.

I'm doing that.

 

22 hours ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

I think you should probably shelve this discussion until such time as the community has had suitable time to re-evaluate said shorthand in light of Redside Hero content and Blueside Villain content being introduced to the game.

What hero content within the villain zones?

What villain content in the hero zones?

I haven't seen anything about that on the beta notes, but I could very well have missed something.

 

22 hours ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

This thread is being treated a joke by the vast majority of people posting in it, as near as I can tell.

You know what?

Look around at the world today.

If people come upon this and think is funny and get a good laugh out of it, then I think that's a great thing.

I think that is a positive on it's own merit.

 

I had a great time gaming tonight which left me very little time to come to these forums.

Teamed up with probably a grand total of 60+ characters played by other people tonight. Only 2 of them were played by players on  my friends list.

It is possible that I was on a team with some of the players that have posted on this thread.

 

If you see an @UltraAlt or UltraAlt Running around in THE CITY. That isn't me.

I'm always wearing a mask.

 

Edited by UltraAlt
  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Twisted Toon said:

I think they were having issues determining whether the lights for the alarms should be called "red", "blue", "bad guy on the grounds", "good guy summoners", or just "You're too late. The bad guy got away while you were busy arguing about labels that don't really matter".

Doesn't really matter because heroes in this game can not respond to villains doing bank heist missions.

 

Can you imagine what a bank heist mission would be like if it was on the hero side and the heroes could respond?

The villains are out number more than 2-1.

 

There would be a pop-up message on the heroes event channel.

The same kind of message that comes up with a fire happens.

You might get the heroes to respond if you are a zombie mastermind because for sure they are going to respond to a zombie invasion.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

*snip*

 

These are all my opinions. Opinions that I wanted to share because it is something that I felt that I need to express.

 

*snip*

 

Usually, people express an opinion and move on to other things.

They don't normally try so hard to convince everyone to agree with their opinion.

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that this was actually supposed to be a Serious Business thread instead of the cheeky joke it sounded like.

 

I mean... seriously?

*THIS* is the thing the OP wants to scold and lecture us all for doing? 

Really? 

 

I'm sorry, but that's just absurd. 

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 2

Taker of screenshots. Player of creepy Oranbegans and Rularuu bird-things.

Kai's Diary: The Scrapbook of a Sorcerer's Apprentice

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

I'm sorry, but that's just absurd. 

Don't be sorry.

You are not alone...at least in that POV.

 

The 'lazy' parts are comedy gold, really.

At least we have a code word to protect ourselves!

"Fun Blueside Team LFM" is all it takes it seems.

Who knew the power of the word Blue!

  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Don't be sorry.

You are not alone...at least in that POV.

 

The 'lazy' parts are comedy gold, really.

At least we have a code word to protect ourselves!

"Fun Blueside Team LFM" is all it takes it seems.

Who knew the power of the word Blue!

I'm going to make a villain, all blue and gold and name him Funside.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Doesn't really matter because heroes in this game can not respond to villains doing bank heist missions.

 

Can you imagine what a bank heist mission would be like if it was on the hero side and the heroes could respond?

The villains are out number more than 2-1.

 

 

This definitely needs looking at and I reiterate @CrudeVileTerror's comments about asynchronous pseudo PVP re Bank jobs.  If a villain does a bank job then give them the option for allowing their toon to be doppelgangered as the next actual villain a hero meets when doing a Safeguard.  and vice versa.  It'd be fun, interesting (especially as it would cross shards) and still not have the baggage of having to retool a zone for PVP.

 

As for the villains being outnumbered more than 2 to 1?  Well, the heroes can't seem to clear out Level 1 Hellions from Atlas Park despite that so...YMMV.

Edited by Darmian
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 2

AE SFMA Arcs: Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part One. (Arc id 26756) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Two. (Arc id 26952) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Three. (Arc id 27233) 

Darker Deeds: Part One (Arc id 28374) | Darker Deeds: Part Two. (Arc id 28536) Darker Deeds: Part Three. (Arc id 29252) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part One (Arc id 29891) |

Darkest Before Dawn: Part Two (Arc id 30210) Darkest Before Dawn: Part Three (Arc id 30560) | Bridge of Forever ( Arc id 36642)*The Cassini Division (Arc id 37104)*The House of Gaunt Saints (Arc id 37489)*

 

*Pre War Praetorian Loyalist.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, tidge said:

When looking for a hill to die on, don't confuse molehills for mountains.

As mountains to die on go, this one is more of a sinkhole.

 

People call it redside because the icon and UI are red, and blueside because the icon and UI are blue.  That's pretty much as complex as it gets.

  • Like 2

Reunion player, ex-Defiant.

AE SFMA: Zombie Ninja Pirates! (#18051)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...