PvP Diminishing Returns Removal

[TC]

Hey everyone, the subject speaks for itself but I'm going to rant about it a bit. I'll try and make it as brief as possible while explaining why I think DR sucks.

 

I really enjoyed the PvP in this game before the rework they did in i13; the one that was aimed at making PvP more "casual friendly" (it does the opposite and makes it more complicated). It was extremely fun and there really was nothing like it. It was similar to WoW's PvP in some ways but the gameplay is blatantly different, especially the mobility. But I had a reminder today after dueling in RV. After building a character (Brute) that should be a strong dueling character for weeks, I found that many of my critical stats were weakened in PvP due to Diminishing Returns (DR). I tried my hand at duels anyway with mixed results, but I consider them negative since my build did not do what it was supposed to do due to DR.

 

Fortunately I found that my build served another purpose, killing squishies, and it did it quite well. But theoretically it should be a good melee duelist. And squishies shouldn't be as easy for me to kill as they are, because building defensively is weakened for them as well, and because they were laughably easy to keep up with thanks to movement suppression (another topic for another time, although I advocate for it's removal as well). My build shouldn't be as good at what it is good at while it also shouldn't be as bad at what it's supposed to be good at. The situation makes no sense, and it's due to DR changing the way the game works in PvP for... reasons? I went back into PINES and worked out a new build that works for PvP in the way I want it to, hypothetically. But it would then be severely hamstrung in PvE. And I don't want to do that, at all. I like both aspects of the game.

 

This also extends to healing DR, which was also a very unpopular decision. Although as I mentioned before, WoW and CoH are different, they did share some similarities that are common among all MMOs pre-i13. Similarities that serve as foundations for MMO PvP. Like in WoW, healers in CoH would serve as backbones for teams. Like in WoW, DPS would often try and target the enemy healer to kill them quickly while simultaneously protecting their own healer. It's a fun team dynamic. As it stands now, post-i13, healers are severely weakened. A lot of times the strategy is to just hit a guy as much as possible before heals stop working on him. It's harder to outplay people because if enough people focus one guy, eventually the heals stop working. So whoever has more people, wins. It's lame and makes healers feel significantly less important. Healing DR is arguably more disastrous than regular DR because it caused the death of most team PvP in CoH and then led to the rise of dueling builds that don't fit PvE scenarios.

 

DR was extremely unpopular when it came out and it remains something unwanted by most PvPers in the community. With the revitalized servers and new administration, the new devs have a chance to undo this mistake. I suggest removing DR so people can be as powerful as they want to be in PvP without having to hamstring their builds for PvE. The PvP in the game was lively, fun, and engaging before the i13 rework. DR simply makes PvP significantly more complicated and bogs players down, across the board, and also makes new PvPers confused and uninterested when engaging in PvP because it's so different. Remove DR and allow PvP to function like the rest of the game. Or, better yet, just revert the i13 PvP changes entirely. They were unpopular on release and they're unpopular now.

 

TL;DR DR sucks and I want to play old CoH PvP.

[Solvernia]

You can have two builds per character, you know. Separating your PVE and PVP builds so you have something viable for both would be a smarter move than asking the devs to change everything for you.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

sorry no this is terrible to even suggest.

 

PvP has always been a niche in this game one that really imo is more useful to role players wanting to have SG vs VG wars.

 

I recall once holding my own against 4 heroes as a brute who used his knock backs and knock downs to keep them all off balance.

 

I recall managing to turn the tables on an ambush by 5 villains with a psi ment blaster by using a break free, a phase shift and escaping so I could stalk them and switching to a costume I made just for pvp taht colored my attacks the same as the shivans I waited till they became engaged at a meteor site and then attack from above. after they all wiped I sent a tell to one of them, and they LOLd having no idea I was attacking them from above thanks to my energy color.

 

this was all in the late age of CoH. Ive a few other fun PvP recollections all from after the horrible first iteration of PvP. If you want to move quickly in pvp we have hover and combat jumping to assist. Power sets like SR grant a modest but meaningful boost to movement speed. There are several ways to approach movement in pvp and never found issue with the travel power change in pvp. Had to happen or ranged kiting would have always been king in pvp.

[Solvernia]

PvP has always been a niche in this game one that really imo is more useful to role players wanting to have SG vs VG wars.

 

Yeah, uh, every single PVPer I have ever seen who is serious about PVPing is not a roleplayer.

 

90% of PVP is beating people up in SC/RV, the other 10% is tournaments on Torchbearer/Indomitable. In neither case is RP mandatory or even practiced unironically. Even on Everlasting.

[TC]

Unfortunately the second build idea doesn’t work very well in CoH because IOs don’t end up in the tray when you switch; they’re locked into the first build. So I’d have to grind for several more weeks just to have a second build for PvP. Which is possible, but a huge pain that doesn’t need to happen.

 

Also Bentley, sounds like you’re making things up or you fought people who had no idea how to PvP. If your Brute could tank four people at once by knocking them back, when every capable PvPer has some form of KB resistance, they sound inept for multiple reasons. And a group of players who can’t distinguish they’re getting hit by another player because he changed power color sound like clickers who are new to the game. You also don’t sound like a PvPer to begin with, especially considering you associate RP with PvP.

 

If anyone has any actual arguments in favor of keeping DR in the game, I’d love to hear them. It still seems senseless to me.

[Solvernia]

i’d have to grind for several more weeks just to have a second build for PvP.

 

if you have purples, sure

 

solution: don't use purples

 

You also don’t sound like a PvPer to begin with, especially considering you associate RP with PvP.

 

feel free to hop on everlasting if you'd like a demonstration of both my RP and PvP