Expanding Account Bound Unlocks (As a player option)

[Marstead]

City of Heroes is the ultimate alt-itis MMO, but many other alt-focused games (World of Warcraft, for example) have moved toward making most or all unlocks Account Bound. This encourages playing multiple characters rather than having a main.

 

There are a ton of cool things in City of Heroes that require an enormous amount of effort to unlock -- accolades, badge titles, and so on. It would be nice if we could work toward these across all characters instead of needing to unlock them on every character.

 

I could see some players having RP concerns with things like badges being account unlocks. As a compromise, making this an opt-in feature would help a lot. I think the way to do this is to let players speak to an NPC to enable account bound unlocks (badge progress, Ouroboros flashback flags, etc). When players do that, all characters on the account who have opted into the system will merge progress on those badges, flashback missions, etc. I think it'd be reasonable to make this process irrevocable once triggered.

 

WoW currently distinguishes between achievements unlocked by an account vs. individually unlocked again on a player. I imagine that's possible in City of Heroes too, but would require revision to the UI and I could understand if we don't see that for some time.

[_NOPE_]

+1

[Baney]

+1

[Burnt Toast]

I think this cheapens the achievement. I mean why even bother making people get Atlas Medallion, TFC, Portal Jockey, etc.. just give it to them then.

Sure I would love to log in and have these on all my new characters, but it kinda takes away from the actual intent of an accolade imo. That character did specific tasks and in return is recognized for those achievements by the accolade.

 

If anything like this went live I would sure hope the accolade on the characters who did not actually complete all the tasks required was a reduced amount. Basically you are asking for an "I win" accolade button. With the main 4 - Atlas, TFC, Portal Jockey, and Freedom Phalanx you are looking at 20% max health and 10% end just for creating a character - seems a bit OP to me. Whatever happened to the whole "journey" and "earning" that people like to chime in with all the time?

 

For those of us who actually work towards the accolades this would be a complete slap in the face. Sorry but I cannot support the whole "I win" aspect of this suggestion - there would have to be a definitive downgrade in values for me to support this.

 

 

[Galaxy Brain]

I think this cheapens the achievement. I mean why even bother making people get Atlas Medallion, TFC, Portal Jockey, etc.. just give it to them then.

Sure I would love to log in and have these on all my new characters, but it kinda takes away from the actual intent of an accolade imo. That character did specific tasks and in return is recognized for those achievements by the accolade.

 

If anything like this went live I would sure hope the accolade on the characters who did not actually complete all the tasks required was a reduced amount. Basically you are asking for an "I win" accolade button. With the main 4 - Atlas, TFC, Portal Jockey, and Freedom Phalanx you are looking at 20% max health and 10% end just for creating a character - seems a bit OP to me. Whatever happened to the whole "journey" and "earning" that people like to chime in with all the time?

 

For those of us who actually work towards the accolades this would be a complete slap in the face. Sorry but I cannot support the whole "I win" aspect of this suggestion - there would have to be a definitive downgrade in values for me to support this.

 

You still had to earn it though, just not 100 times.

[Burnt Toast]

So once someone hits 50 they should be able to Insta-50? Once one character unlocks patrons all their account characters should have access to patrons? Why not just Insta 50 everyone and give them every badge and every accolade.... oh wait you can do that if you run your own server..... Not sure why people play the game if they don't want to actually play the game. Accolades are something one achieves per character.. just like other badges and... levels. I've noticed a distinct "Gimme gimme attitude" since the game has returned which I find ironic since so many people claim that the game is about the journey (blah blah blah). I am a PLer and even I think this is a bad idea. Getting accolades has been something you do with your character while leveling up or once you are 50. If implemented it should be at reduced effectiveness OR those who actually do ALL the work for the accolade on each character should have a better version of the accolade.

 

I think this cheapens the achievement. I mean why even bother making people get Atlas Medallion, TFC, Portal Jockey, etc.. just give it to them then.

Sure I would love to log in and have these on all my new characters, but it kinda takes away from the actual intent of an accolade imo. That character did specific tasks and in return is recognized for those achievements by the accolade.

 

If anything like this went live I would sure hope the accolade on the characters who did not actually complete all the tasks required was a reduced amount. Basically you are asking for an "I win" accolade button. With the main 4 - Atlas, TFC, Portal Jockey, and Freedom Phalanx you are looking at 20% max health and 10% end just for creating a character - seems a bit OP to me. Whatever happened to the whole "journey" and "earning" that people like to chime in with all the time?

 

For those of us who actually work towards the accolades this would be a complete slap in the face. Sorry but I cannot support the whole "I win" aspect of this suggestion - there would have to be a definitive downgrade in values for me to support this.

 

You still had to earn it though, just not 100 times.

[Rylas]

For those of us who actually work towards the accolades this would be a complete slap in the face.

 

Only if you chose to let it be. One would still have to earn it in order to unlock it account wide. And nothing's stopping you from being proud of or taking satisfaction of doing the content for each character.

 

My one add on to the suggestion might be making the account wide unlock something you have to purchase from the P2W vendor. Once you unlock it for the account, each toon who doesn't earn it has to purchase it. One more influence sink to fight inflation.

[Rylas]

So once someone hits 50 they should be able to Insta-50?

 

You're applying a slippery slope fallacy. Accolades are not the same as leveling or gaining incarnate powers or patron powers. Though, I'd be happy with an account wide unlock of patron powers too, because continuously running the same exact content over and over for one thing gets awfully boring.

[DSorrow]

Not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, getting all the passive accolades on an alt isn't a huge effort, but then again it isn't really a challenge either and feels like pretty pointless busywork. I guess one option (although, probably a pain in the ass to implement) would be reduced requirements for repeat badges on alts. For example, Silver Bullet on your first character requires 100 defeats, on the second it's 95 until it caps out at a minimum of let's say 50 or 25. TF / mission badges would probably require a different treatment, but I wouldn't be opposed to having those unlocked account wide after, let's say, 10 characters having the badge. Then again, this might make less fun TFs (Synapse...) difficult to form in the not so distant future as many people no longer need the badge on any character.

 

Some badges, though, like the healing given have pretty good justification to be account wide as they restrict player choice when it comes to making your badge hunter character.

[_NOPE_]

So once someone hits 50 they should be able to Insta-50?

 

Yes. In fact, people should be able to insta-50 any time they WANT to.

 

Make this happen:

 

 

We need MORE options, not less options. There's no corporate masters here to serve. Let's let everyone play the way they want to play, as long as that doesn't affect anyone else's playstyle.

 

I don't see the problem with this. +1, as long as it's made OPTIONAL.

[Coyote]

Ugh, I hate JRangering, but I kind of feel that I have to

/jranger

 

Accolades are something that your character gains. Like Experience, Influence, IOs, Levels, unlocking Patron Pools, and so on. It doesn't seem reasonable to me that if one character EARNS Level 50, or opens a Patron pool, or does anything else that they have to unlock, that other characters shouldn't have to do it because they're on the same account.

 

Now, if you want to argue that no character should have to unlock anything, that's a different argument. But I think that anything that is unlocked by having your character achieve something... should then have to be unlocked by some other character, by that other character also doing something.

 

Boring and repetitive? Um, that's inherent in alt-itis. You ARE doing the same missions and the same content, for the same unlocks. If that bothers you, to be doing it again with a different AT and powersets... then why are you making that other alt? Just as you have to through some of the same content on your 20th character as on some of your first 19 (usually) in order to level up, I don't see the argument as "but I'm doing the same thing again" as a good reason why it should be freely unlocked.

 

Alts have to earn their own experience, do their own story arcs, and for the same reasons should have to earn their own accolades.

[jack_nomind]

I don't see the problem with this.

 

The community would collapse in on itself because no achievements would retain the value of rewarded effort.  For the record, I'm not opposed to the OP's suggestion; I'm opposed to turning the play servers into the same kind of environment as test server.

 

The server code exists for anyone who wants that kind of play, but it would kill Homecoming.

[_NOPE_]

Value comes, at least for me, internally. If someone clicked an "I Win" button and got an instant 50. It doesn't diminish the 50 that I "earned" by playing for countless hours through solo door missions (a project which I'm working on right now by the way, up to level 29!).

 

If your value comes from comparing to others.... there's bigger problems at hand, in my opinion. Now, as far as "test server menu", I can see against that because it'd wreck the game ECONOMY, but if it's something that's internal to the character and can't be traded/sold to others.... why not give the option and choice to instantly get all the stuff that you want? Nobody HAS to choose to take those things.

[Rylas]

There's no corporate masters here to serve. Let's let everyone play the way they want to play, as long as that doesn't affect anyone else's playstyle.

If your value comes from comparing to others.... there's bigger problems at hand, in my opinion.

 

+2

[jack_nomind]

If your value comes from comparing to others.... there's bigger problems at hand, in my opinion.

 

Well, once you solve them, let me know and we'll change the past.

 

I don't understand how you can think that wealth does and should matter in a social game, but status doesn't or shouldn't -- but even with that perplexity it's not really the point I'm making.  The second-most free-form game in the world is a sheet of paper where you can do anything; your rules and challenges are entirely up to you.  And yet, very few people consider that game to be very interesting.  I think anyone claiming that, here, would certainly be disingenuous.  Most players seek the structure of an outside set of rules, rather than choosing to create most of those rules themselves as you propose they do.

[justicebeliever]

If your value comes from comparing to others.... there's bigger problems at hand, in my opinion.

 

Well, once you solve them, let me know and we'll change the past.

 

I don't understand how you can think that wealth does and should matter in a social game, but status doesn't or shouldn't -- but even with that perplexity it's not really the point I'm making.  The second-most free-form game in the world is a sheet of paper where you can do anything; your rules and challenges are entirely up to you.  And yet, very few people consider that game to be very interesting.  I think anyone claiming that, here, would certainly be disingenuous.  Most players seek the structure of an outside set of rules, rather than choosing to create most of those rules themselves as you propose they do.

 

Jack - with you 100%.  Game mechanics exist for a reason.  I have no problem with people getting through the mechanics faster than me, but if we allow people to forgo them altogether...not so much.

 

As a product manager I learned a couple of good life lessons:

“Data speaks louder than anecdotal” and “Give people the solution they need, not the one they want.”

 

People in the game claim they want to just get to lvl 50, but as soon as that becomes reality and they bypass all the mechanics of getting there (fighting mobs, farming, leveling, earning inf, etc) most of those people will just leave because the games no longer interesting.  What was the biggest complaint for years?  ED!  No wait, it was lack of end game content (and maybe ED).  People got bored and left.

Game mechanics matter.

 

As for data, the 2 biggest reasons people leave a game:  Frustration and Boredom.

[Solvernia]

"Everyone should be forced to jump through hoops to get things because I personally chose to jump through hoops to get things" is a selfish and toxic thing to say.

 

"If everyone gets things that I have, it makes what I have less valuable" is a selfish and toxic thing to say.

 

Homecoming's design philosophy is, from my observations, that people shouldn't have to treat City of Heroes as a second job in order to progress. You are free to choose the way you play the game. If you want to get to 50 fast and get stuff with minimal effort, that's okay. If you want to challenge yourself and do things the old way without handouts, that's okay.

 

If you want to shit on other people for not playing the game the way you want to play it, then go play on a different server, because we do not do that here.

[justicebeliever]

"Everyone should be forced to jump through hoops to get things because I personally chose to jump through hoops to get things" is a selfish and toxic thing to say.

 

"If everyone gets things that I have, it makes what I have less valuable" is a selfish and toxic thing to say.

 

Homecoming's design philosophy is, from my observations, that people shouldn't have to treat City of Heroes as a second job in order to progress. You are free to choose the way you play the game. If you want to get to 50 fast and get stuff with minimal effort, that's okay. If you want to challenge yourself and do things the old way without handouts, that's okay.

 

If you want to shit on other people for not playing the game the way you want to play it, then go play on a different server, because we do not do that here.

 

I think the question on the table is really - should people be able to lvl up like they can on the Beta Server, through just a slash command.

 

It has nothing to do with DFB, PL'ing, Farming...Those all use the existing game mechanics to lvl up...

 

Even though I am not a farmer, PL'er, or play much DFB, I have zero problem with people who can level up to 20 in 2 hours, or to 50 in a day...that's fine.  It doesn't hurt even though I don't play that way.

 

But I have an issue with throwing out the mechanics to allow people to lvl to 50 with one command and the add 20+ vet levels with another, and then outfit all their IO Sets by just adding 2B inf with a command.

 

If that's really what anybody wanted in their heart of hearts, why did they come here?

[Burnt Toast]

1. Everyone is allowed an opinion so how dare you tell others who have an opinion to go play on another server - THAT attitude is in opposition to the forums and the HC philosophy.

2. Watch your language and caustic attitude.

3. You do not speak for the HC crew whatsoever.

4. I did not say they should be FORCED to do anything - getting accolades is a CHOICE and not required for gameplay. If you feel forced to get an accolade - that is your issue.

5. Your entire post is toxic and twisting what others have said.

6. It does not take days to get the main 4 accolades - if it takes you that long you are doing it wrong.

7. Minimal effort is not the same as no effort. There's a reason HC doesn't do Instant 50's - because that is NO effort.

8. If you do not like reading other's opinions then the forums are not a place for you. If you cannot reply without vulgarity and telling people to leave the game... then the forums are not for you. Show a modicum of maturity and respect for people if you want to be taken seriously and not simply ignored for being a caustic and toxic unicorn.

 

 

 

"Everyone should be forced to jump through hoops to get things because I personally chose to jump through hoops to get things" is a selfish and toxic thing to say.

 

"If everyone gets things that I have, it makes what I have less valuable" is a selfish and toxic thing to say.

 

Homecoming's design philosophy is, from my observations, that people shouldn't have to treat City of Heroes as a second job in order to progress. You are free to choose the way you play the game. If you want to get to 50 fast and get stuff with minimal effort, that's okay. If you want to challenge yourself and do things the old way without handouts, that's okay.

 

If you want to shit on other people for not playing the game the way you want to play it, then go play on a different server, because we do not do that here.

[Clave Dark 5]

"Everyone should be forced to jump through hoops to get things because I personally chose to jump through hoops to get things" is a selfish and toxic thing to say.

 

"If everyone gets things that I have, it makes what I have less valuable" is a selfish and toxic thing to say.

 

Homecoming's design philosophy is, from my observations, that people shouldn't have to treat City of Heroes as a second job in order to progress. You are free to choose the way you play the game. If you want to get to 50 fast and get stuff with minimal effort, that's okay. If you want to challenge yourself and do things the old way without handouts, that's okay.

 

If you want to shit on other people for not playing the game the way you want to play it, then go play on a different server, because we do not do that here.

This is the second time I've seen you use the word "toxic" whilst saying some stuff that I found rather toxic itself, or at least the way you said it.  I can tell from your posts elsewhere that you're a knowledgeable player, so I like reading your posts, but you might consider dropping a bit of the edge - more flies with honey and so on.  You have your point, it's valid, no need to go so far to get it across.

[WanderingAries]

IDK, instinct says it feels like a bad idea. I mean, sure, why not unlock something account wide, but then again, what if you wanted the challenge of getting badge X on alt D in which it's More difficult based on inherent design differences. Like, IDK...a healing brute? Things like accolades and badges have encouraged people to have dedicated alts for these tasks causing them to be creative in their design choices, Bio's, etc. Some of the accolades even intentionally encourage teaming (pretty sure, no quoting!). IDK, I'd rather not TBH.

[Razor Cure]

@BurntToast

'.. I am a PLer and even I think this is a bad idea. Getting accolades has been something you do with your character while leveling up or once you are 50. If implemented it should be at reduced effectiveness OR those who actually do ALL the work for the accolade on each character should have a better version of the accolade...'

 

This made me laugh. Sure, I am not that into the main accolades being handed out (it still would be nice) and I agree..it kinda cheapens the work put in. However..YOU admit to being a PL'r. That is just hilarious.

What about those 50s you did 1-50 just in AE (if you haven't done that, I take it back), without doing ANY of the great story content? Sounds like a really cheap achievement to me.

And of course to 'my' opinion there..you would say..'I don't care, its how I play/have fun/choose to spend my time.' Which again, is perfectly fine. In the same way that someone not wanting to farm Fake Nems x100, on X number of toons, would enjoy a Accolade Unlock.

[retiarius]

I think the question on the table is really - should people be able to lvl up like they can on the Beta Server, through just a slash command.

 

In my mind, this raises an even more interesting question: what is the general expectation that players have regarding what they can do, vis-a-vis what they're allowed to do (both by the game generally, as well as by those who are now managing, implementing, and overseeing the game's rule set via modification of its original code).

 

For whatever admirable qualities can be ascribed to the community, it doesn't strike me that this situation is exactly a democracy, certainly not a case where if enough voices are raised, they'll be heard, and change will be the end result.

 

I find it quite interesting to cogitate upon this.

 

 

[pattycake]

Kinda strikes me as odd, people who think they know whats best, when majority of successful features are trial and error. You never know how good an idea is until it is implemented, because one small change can drastically change the atmosphere of a game and most of the time unintended bugs become full-fledged content while fully planned content can fall straight flat on its face and ruin the game forever, this happens all the time.

 

What I am confused about is a player mentioning an OPT-system, and the conversation switched to suggesting in slash commands to 50.. Like they were actually related, (my opinion, there is hints of similarity) but many of my favourite successful AAA titles all have forms of OPT systems because it keeps the player base happy in the communities they most enjoy.

 

PoE has HC and Standard realms. RS has ironman/HC. I haven't played WoW in a long time, but I am pretty sure world pvp servers still exist along with RP servers which GMs can invoke your character for not appropriately naming character or spamming in chat market-advertising that would be completely acceptable in regular PVE realms.

 

I don't mean to raid OPs post. But he suggested a fair idea to earn accolades and with an option to enable it globally because its not for everyone, I'm not going to pretend its full proof because even the things I want or think are beneficial can impact the game depending whether or not there are demands for it.

 

The idea that,

 

'look at that person who had it so easy, it makes my hero not as great because I chose the longer way' is only negative, because you convinced yourself it is negative therefor this person has a undesirable personality, absurdness and madness, because it comes across like you think you have the better judgement. People who are motivated by hard work and achievement is a huge incentive to an MMo's success. I don't think Mythic would be motivated enough to complete what was said to be impossible if other people chose the easy way and took an advantage of a system making raids completely easy because? Every person should have the right to complete every single feature, and there shouldn't be impossible content cause its not fair people work and dream of being recognized for specific accomplishments is some how selfish? How is he the outcast? 

 

I have one word. Connotations. If you convinced yourself the player is playing incorrectly because his interest differs from yours, well man thanks for supporting your community.

 

I would have a problem with OPTcommand to 50. Because I don't to be identified in same category, because I have a horrible habit of going the optimal route, and if the most optimal route is entering /lvlmeto50 it would spoil the game for me. Much like how others can min/max there character majorly faster by doing content that doesn't interest me and somehow there achievements are the same as mine. The only difference it took them 3 days to get what took me months, and somehow.. We are no different, its a real motivation killer (I am not saying I am better than the person I am comparing to, what I am saying is what I said, with good intentions. I want others to click my profile open and see a whole list of badges they haven't collected because they too busy playing building of heroes much like how I enjoyed looking other peoples profiles and seeing theirs) I am ToZ, and I am in a completely different timeline than yours.

[Burnt Toast]

Oh I have done the content. I was playing CoH from day 1 until the second the servers went down. I beta tested for 17 issues of CoH. And yes I freely admit to having a farmer and PLing "some" of my characters.... you wanna know my main farmer (I have two)?? An Earth/Kin controller. You think PLing cheapens the experience from 1-50? THAT is laughable considering the stories have not changed and won't change. You know a lot of people who don't even PL don't read the story arcs...right? It's not required to read/follow the story arcs so as not to cheapen the experience... heck I've went from 1-50 on a character simply from a sewer run and radio missions to 50.

 

The point is this proposed system doesn't require little effort... it requires no effort. If your point is about EARNING and EXPERIENCING the game then you should be against this proposal otherwise (like many who claim the game is about the journey) you are being hypocritical. How does one justify simply clicking a button and achieving these accolades... the accolades (praise) is from actually doing something...

 

You can get all four accolades in approximately 4 hours by the way - there's even a handy little guide here on the forums on how to do just that. So as you can see... little effort is already required to get them.... Like I said... I would support this IF the "non-earned" accolades were of lesser value OR if the earned ones were of higher value, but to make them equal is trivializing something that plays an important part in a character's abilities.

 

The trend since CoH has come back is for people to ask for as much freebies as possible in-game. HC has already made the game so super easy to level with permanent xp boosts.

 

Unlike you I don't judge how people level... I don't assume that people use AE to get to 50...and frankly I don't care how they get to 50 - that is the beauty of CoH - you can level however you choose. Leveling is not the same as gaining accolades - do not confuse the two or try to link them together. Accolades have specific requirements...always have and for a reason - they are supposed to be something you have to do to be recognized. The failure of others to understand what "accolade" means does not mean a system revamp is in order.

 

@BurntToast

'.. I am a PLer and even I think this is a bad idea. Getting accolades has been something you do with your character while leveling up or once you are 50. If implemented it should be at reduced effectiveness OR those who actually do ALL the work for the accolade on each character should have a better version of the accolade...'

 

This made me laugh. Sure, I am not that into the main accolades being handed out (it still would be nice) and I agree..it kinda cheapens the work put in. However..YOU admit to being a PL'r. That is just hilarious.

What about those 50s you did 1-50 just in AE (if you haven't done that, I take it back), without doing ANY of the great story content? Sounds like a really cheap achievement to me.

And of course to 'my' opinion there..you would say..'I don't care, its how I play/have fun/choose to spend my time.' Which again, is perfectly fine. In the same way that someone not wanting to farm Fake Nems x100, on X number of toons, would enjoy a Accolade Unlock.