Taunt Aura Stealth suppression on Brutes and Tankers...

[Wavicle]

...was not really such a great idea. It USED to be people complained "Tanks shouldn't take Stealth" but it was nonsense because their Auras took care of aggro. NOW it really is a problem.

This was a mistake that is nice for people stealthing through content but is BAD for Brutes and Tankers actually trying to do their team role.


EDIT: Maybe an option to turn off Aura Suppression could be added to Null the Gull?

Edited January 24, 2021 by Wavicle

[Mr. Vee]

Not sure what you mean. I leave my damage aura on on my brutes when stealthing through content but it's not suppressed, it's just that I don't care if things aggro to me as I go past.

[Wavicle]

42 minutes ago, Mr. Vee said:

Not sure what you mean. I leave my damage aura on on my brutes when stealthing through content but it's not suppressed, it's just that I don't care if things aggro to me as I go past.

If you turn on an actual Stealth power like those in the Dark Armor or Energy Aura sets your Taunt aura suppresses until you attack.

[cohRock]

@WavicleI have mixed feelings about your suggestion.  I agree that if you are the squishie of a duo and don't have stealth while the tank/brute (t/b) does, then it is easy to get in situations where you bear the brunt of alpha strikes.  OTOH, if you follow behind the t/b and he is careful to taunt immediately then his aura suppression will seldom have negative consequences.  In this instance, though, you are forced into a play style that may not suit you.  Bottom line is I favor aura suppression but admit it can have unfavorable consequences on your teammates.  My bottommer line is that my t/b characters do not choose power sets with stealth because of these consequences.

[Wavicle]

Just now, cohRock said:

@WavicleI have mixed feelings about your suggestion.  I agree that if you are the squishie of a duo and don't have stealth while the tank/brute (t/b) does, then it is easy to get in situations where you bear the brunt of alpha strikes.  OTOH, if you follow behind the t/b and he is careful to taunt immediately then his aura suppression will seldom have negative consequences.  In this instance, though, you are forced into a play style that may not suit you.  Bottom line is I favor aura suppression but admit it can have unfavorable consequences on your teammates.  My bottommer line is that my t/b characters do not choose power sets with stealth because of these consequences.

That’s a fair point. I just think on tank classes it’s important their powers not hurt their performance of their role.

 

 This might be a lot to ask but... maybe there could be an option to turn off aura suppression added to Null the Gull?

[SwitchFade]

No thanks.

[Myrmidon]

Move into the enemy and lead off with an AoE. Problem solved.

[Wavicle]

4 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

Move into the enemy and lead off with an AoE. Problem solved.

No, it does not solve the problem.

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

No, it does not solve the problem.

Sure it does. Also, you could... You know... Turn off stealth or even.... Not take the power? 😋

 

Your complaint is, "stealth works on a tank, keeping him from getting noticed." Uh.... Ok? Working well, it seems.

 

So are you actually wanting something from stealth, like the defense bonus, without the stealth part? You mention "a tanks power should not hurt it's performance..." Is assuming it is designed to be turned on and left on. Maybe it's situational? Maybe it's for stealthing when needed? A stealth power doesn't hurt a tanks performance.

 

Because right now, stealth works the it should and the way anyone would assume it would. Maybe you're assuming it's use is something other than it is? If I'm a tank and have stealth, I have more options:

 

1. Leave it off until needed

2. Leave it on and sneak up and unload

3. ???

4. Profit.

[Infinitum]

Stealth only works 100% when combined with celerity +stealth to where your stealth radius is to a point to where they cant see ya.

 

If You are running with celerity take it out and stealth by itself shouldnt be enough to keep their perception from detecting you either way.

 

If you dont want to give up either one then its going to be hard to help your situation.

 

Besides you are a tank, just run though - they shouldnt be able to kill you either way.

[Purrfekshawn]

Have you tried switching yer Taunt Aura off while stealthing past enemies. Or you don't want to perform an extra click, but instead wanna force Devs to work for what u need?

 

But generally lMO well-built tank should be survivable enough to run past enemies w/out caring about their noticing or not noticing! Especially Dark Armor, which caps pretty much ALL resistances except Energy & Toxic? l think all powers, those currently provide stealth for Tank or Brute on their primary or secondary should get that Stealth removed, so enemies see the player from afar.

[Doomguide2005]

What?  If you have an Aura and you want to stealth then turn off the Aura.  Not sure why you'd want to be stealthy while engaged in the classic role of a tank which is to grab and hold aggro.  If the team is stealthing to an objective you don't need to grab and hold aggro you need to actively avoid it.

[Greycat]

I'm trying to figure this out.

OK, so currently - let's take DA, has a taunt aura, has a stealth.

Stealth suppresses taunt from taunt aura.

To my way of thinking, this means the tank basically gets to deliver the initial damage, instead of getting seen and fired at, but after the attacking starts, the taunt aura's working as normal - correct? Or is it causing issues with that?

From that point on, any passing mob (under the aggro cap) or taunted mob should still be paying attention to the tank, assuming suppression hasn't kicked back in (X many seconds after last attack?)

 

To me, that's looking like - in theory at least - the tank should still be able to do their job just fine. (Have to spend some time on my DA tanks or brutes to be sure, admittedly.) It doesn't *sound* like much of a playstyle difference to how I'd been tending to run them on live, either.

 

So, question for Wavicle is "what are you seeing instead that's actually making it harder/a bad idea?" Just the range you're being noticed? Is the suppression not going away when attacking?

[Greycat]

1 minute ago, Doomguide2005 said:

What?  If you have an Aura and you want to stealth then turn off the Aura.  Not sure why you'd want to be stealthy while engaged in the classic role of a tank which is to grab and hold aggro.  If the team is stealthing to an objective you don't need to grab and hold aggro you need to actively avoid it.

Dark Armor's stealth toggle shows this:

Toggle: Self Stealth, +DEF(All), +Res(Immobilize), +Perception

 

So a bit of defense, immob resist (assuming you're not running SJ and have CJ on anyway,) and the +perception helps through the game with various ghost-types that love to vanish.

[Doomguide2005]

1 minute ago, Greycat said:

Dark Armor's stealth toggle shows this:

Toggle: Self Stealth, +DEF(All), +Res(Immobilize), +Perception

 

So a bit of defense, immob resist (assuming you're not running SJ and have CJ on anyway,) and the +perception helps through the game with various ghost-types that love to vanish.

Okay so the perceived problem isn't one of stealth capability then but of a set that was originally not a Tanker set getting ported to tanks and not 'adjusting' the power to take threat generation into account while a tank goes about engaging mobs as usual.  And not one of screwing up their ability to get to the objective in a stealthy manner by drawing aggro in route to that objective.

 

And yes @Greycat I'll second what your saying in your previous post above

[Wavicle]

Some folks seem not to understand the complaint.

I'm not saying I'm having trouble Stealthing content on a Brute or a Tank.

The problem came up when I was duoing on my Warshade with my friend on his Brute (Energy Aura) and he had a lot of trouble grabbing aggro before my pet or I.

[Infinitum]

16 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Some folks seem not to understand the complaint.

I'm not saying I'm having trouble Stealthing content on a Brute or a Tank.

The problem came up when I was duoing on my Warshade with my friend on his Brute (Energy Aura) and he had a lot of trouble grabbing aggro before my pet or I.

Was he engaging first in melee range?

[BZRKR]

16 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Some folks seem not to understand the complaint.

I'm not saying I'm having trouble Stealthing content on a Brute or a Tank.

The problem came up when I was duoing on my Warshade with my friend on his Brute (Energy Aura) and he had a lot of trouble grabbing aggro before my pet or I.

Were you in Dwarf form?

[SwitchFade]

16 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Some folks seem not to understand the complaint.

I'm not saying I'm having trouble Stealthing content on a Brute or a Tank.

The problem came up when I was duoing on my Warshade with my friend on his Brute (Energy Aura) and he had a lot of trouble grabbing aggro before my pet or I.

You should clarify, because both the OP and this don't make much sense.

 

People get it, it's not clear.

[arcane]

It seems to me that the OP’s problem could only be the product of aura suppression if the tank was literally running in, not attacking at all, and hoping for a taunt aura to do his or her whole job.

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, arcaneholocaust said:

It seems to me that the OP’s problem could only be the product of aura suppression if the tank was literally running in, not attacking at all, and hoping for a taunt aura to do his or her whole job.

Thats what it sounds like but I didn't want to assume that.

 

Especially if the shade attacks first from range its going to be messy before the tank/brute can grab agro.

 

Thats a situation where you really need taunt - I dont use it but it would be useful there.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Infinitum

[arcane]

I dunno.., I’d think if the brute/tank leads with a solid AoE attack there shouldn’t be any issue.

 

EDIT: unless ofc there’s an aggro cap issue.

Edited January 26, 2021 by arcaneholocaust

[Doomguide2005]

Threat generation by a Warshade, especially one in Dwarf form, will tend to generate a lot of aggro.  The base values (in Dwarf) equal or exceeds a scrapper and are as a result only slightly less than a tank or brute who by the way are identical.  The tank comes out ahead mostly by virtue of their inherent all else equal.  So if the Warshade is aggressively attacking, especially before the Brute gets into melee, the Brute is probably playing catch up in terms of threat generation.  Big lobster shape-changing alien dude is scary!  Basically even out of Dwarf a Warshade generates a lot of threat and is a long way from being as threatening (as in more threat than) as your typically squishy. And in Dwarf they are almost as capable of threat generation as a Brute ... it's almost like a Brute duo in terms of what the actual Brute is up against in terms of how the mob sees a Dwarf.  

Edited January 27, 2021 by Doomguide2005

[Wavicle]

That’s a good point. Maybe I can help him out by adjusting my tactics slightly...

[Myrmidon]

33 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

That’s a good point. Maybe I can help him out by adjusting my tactics slightly...

Tell him to join the cult of Fold Space and then he can have much more control over the flow of engagement.