Weekly Discussion 86: Base Building Wish List

[GM ColdSpark]

Happy Sunday everyone! Last week you discussed T1 Immobilises in Control Sets - Writeup is here. 

 

This week it's a discussion on Base Building and what you'd like to see.

 

Weekly discussion 86 24th January till 30th January 2021

Let's talk about - Base Building!

 

Things to think about:

• What items do you not have that you'd really like?
• Are there specific broken items that need a tweak?
• What features would you most like added to the builder
• Thoughts about base PvP in a world of no-cost bases

 

Standard reminder - keep it respectful folks.  😇

[ForeverLaxx]

The amount of options we can put in a base now when compared to live is incredibly daunting and difficult to really get a feel for what you can accomplish. I like the myriad options, don't get me wrong, but when I open the menu to finally work on my mega-base I just get paralyzed by options and end up opting out. Perhaps that's a failing of my own where I insist everything be as perfect and optimal in the design as possible, or maybe it's a fault of how overbearing the sheer number of options there are and what you can do with them. I run into a similar problem regarding Path of Exile and their passive tree, but at least that system has clear build goals and concise guides to achieving the character you're trying to make.

 

As it stands, I think there has to be some kind of better way to sort and categorize objects but I can't readily think of one at the moment. There's just so many things to look at it can be hard to narrow categories down into something easier to parse. Something else to inform players about the "cheat codes" and methods to achieve specific things would be great too. I know some players still think they have to stack desks to get things above the floor, or don't know you can build outside the base, or don't know how to get outside the base in the first place, or don't know that power/control features aren't required for 99% of the objects any longer, etc.

 

I don't know if it's possible to put some kind of "tutorial" for building a base, even in a basic text popup with an opt-out button (so you're not spammed every time you re-enter, like the "no fighting zone" popup for Pocket D), that details the modifications and improvements HC has over the Live version.

 

But if I can only choose one thing, I'd really like a better sort/search option for the countless objects. A pipedream feature could be "pre-fab" objects/floors that come built as a single object originally comprised of many smaller objects to achieve particular looks/effects but I'm sure that's likely not even possible.

[SuperPlyx]

Vanguard teleport portals color tint able ,pretty please.

[Eva Destruction]

Items I'd like:

-More surfaces, with various size options, ideally with sides and a bottom, ideally tintable

-More generic building block items in general, again with sides and bottoms, and ideally tintable.

-Lighting options that produce colored light. 

-Salvage storage racks that aren't huge and ugly.  Alternate options for enhancement and inspiration storage would be good too.

-A merit reward vendor NPC; the ATM doesn't fit the theme of every base

-More decorative NPCs, not just civilians.

-Lava

-Force fields, in various sizes, like the blue force fields at the border of villain zones.  Big ones to keep visitors from going off the edge in outdoor bases, smaller ones for builders to get creative with.

-Silent versions of items that make noise.

 

Features I'd like:

-A "nudge" command to make precision placement of items easier

-The ability to easily disable click-to-teleport

-An "eyedropper" type tool, so you can select an already-placed item if you want to place more of it.

-F5 settings to stick, so if you select "attach to floor" all items you place with attach to floor until you change it.  So if you want to place multiple wall items on the floor, you don't have to cycle through attachment options for every one.

 

 

[The_Warpact]

I would love for base raiding to come back.

Although I wonder how a no cost base would affect this. With some of the bases being how they are, would a "normal" base AND a pvp base have to be an option?

 

@Boomie

[Shenanigunner]

A simple, fully-tintable wall panel. Thanks.

 

(Unless I and everyone I've asked has overlooked a base panel of significant size that can be fully tinted to a color, not just 'shaded' slightly. My immediate objective would be a greenscreen wall. The only solution ever proposed has been to stack a zillion letter 'I's together.)

 

And if ANYTHING is going to made scalable, the letters. Or another, smaller font, at least. Would anything like a "writable" surface or panel be possible — a plate on which two or three lines of text could be 'engraved'?

Edited January 24, 2021 by Shenanigunner

[Shenanigunner]

1 hour ago, Eva Destruction said:

Items I'd like:

-More surfaces, with various size options, ideally with sides and a bottom, ideally tintable

-More generic building block items in general, again with sides and bottoms, and ideally tintable.

 

Seconded, as in my post. And maybe "colorable" is the better term, since "tintable" covers the (heh) spectrum from solid full color to faint graduated shadings.

 

Quote

-Salvage storage racks that aren't huge and ugly.  Alternate options for enhancement and inspiration storage would be good too.

 

Can't disagree, however... you can "bury" the current versions in other objects so that only some small part sticks out of, say, a wall.

 

Quote

-A "nudge" command to make precision placement of items easier

 

Again, can 't disagree, but I wonder how it could be implemented with any time-to-value ratio. The grid scaling gives quite a bit of precision if you use it right. I find it more troubling that you can only accurately move stuff if it's in front of you and to the left; any other relative positioning between your alt and it makes movement erratic or impossible. Not sure it that can be fixed (easily).

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Shenanigunner

[Zepp]

A couple of things I would like to see:
The option to build an extension of your base in either a portal or a British Police Call Box...
Letters with serifs
The ability to have a crawl space so you can hide a tunnel behind a picture or sofa...
Hexcode tinting choices

Item Combiner - The ability to organize a group of objects and link them for moving or save them as a new object so that you can repeat the pattern in a different place (this would also be extremely useful for renovations...

 

Probably think of some other stuff later.
 

[Shenanigunner]

15 minutes ago, Zepp said:

The option to build an extension of your base in either a portal or a British Police Call Box...

 

Hexcode tinting choices...

 

Item Combiner - The ability to organize a group of objects and link them for moving...

 

You can do the first, more or less  choose any portal, attach a letter beacon, 'port to a detached room. (No TARDIS, though.)

 

Yep yep yep on the second two, though. I have a couple of complex structures I've moved once or twice and it's a huge PITA.

[Zepp]

1 hour ago, Shenanigunner said:

 

You can do the first, more or less  choose any portal, attach a letter beacon, 'port to a detached room. (No TARDIS, though.)

 

Yep yep yep on the second two, though. I have a couple of complex structures I've moved once or twice and it's a huge PITA.

I'll try that (I wonder if I can figure out a way to hide/mask a portal in a TARDIS...).

Edit: Thanks for the tip, not as smooth as I would like, but it is kinda cool to be able to enter my TARDIS (now it is decoration time...).

Edit Edit: I would like to update my previous request to make a Tech Portal in the shape of a Police Call Box...

Edited January 24, 2021 by Zepp

[Greycat]

Oh man. Base building wish list. Granted, I haven't *really* done anything in a while, but ...

- Smaller grid size, when it comes to raising/lowering floors and ceilings. (1/4 of what it is now, at least.)

- Resizing and breaking up some of the old items - the SG tables stick in mind as being ludicrously big while being at the same time close to unusable as actual "tables to sit at."

- Being able to do fences, walls, etc. similarly to, say, the way you create roads in city building games. Pick a start point, hold down the mouse, pick an end point.

- Walls with actual windows.

I mean, being honest, the whole base system and items could use a revamp. Floors you can raise, but that are transparent from below and/or you can't stand on while editing or trying to place objects, the "shimmer" if things overlap wrong, the (to me) general PITA-ness of extended bases, the lag when placing things for anyone else in base, the permissions system (and not having defaults for them  you can set so that ALL storage, for instance, is accessible to everyone on placement.)

 

Default "base types" people could select when creating a base, and/or room types, for more casual base building - "I want a tech base," "I want a space station base," "Add a bedroom here," just select one from a list of that type, it adds it ready to go (and furnished, though you could of course change/delete/add things.) For those that don't *want* to base build or don't have the time/patience, some default templates for bases and rooms would be nice.

 

Being able to save and share bases. "Hey, I created a great park" (to go along with the above) and being able to save that, share it, have others grab it and add it as a room (or whole base) of their own.

Just being able to save base layouts would be nice.

 

 

As far as base raiding... it was strange to try to get into when it *was* live. And there are issues with pet pathing (which really is a PITA for masterminds) where they just won't move. Base raiding with our current setup would just be a lot of work. Bases would have to be "validated," I think, or created with an option set to only be "PVP valid" so objectives can't be placed behind or outside walls, etc.

[TemporalVileTerror]

I'll throw in another hat in the "smaller font letters" request.  The current letters are great for outdoor billboard signage.  It would be most welcome to have an interior font.

 

While I imagine the same limitation which prevents the Market from being accessible in Bases may also prevent this, but being able to have Architect Entertainment Contacts and Doors available inside a Base would be absolutely incredible.  ESPECIALLY if we could set the Contact to only provide specific Missions.

[Darkneblade]

Unlimited base building space

Customizable npcs

Ability to place moving npcs

Ability to place moving objects

Custom Teleport points with option to rename them. It will be nice if it was unlimited.

Option to make objects invisible or setting alpha 0-255 could be nice.

Option to make objects with noclip. For secret entrances.

and Unlimited base building space.

[Shenanigunner]

Base raiding: IMVHO, a good notion that never worked out and can't really be fit into the existing game. It would really be... almost a whole game in itself, or a defined sub-game.

 

IF the devs ever find themselves bored and lacking something to do, building out a whole new module with a separate base system built around raids and defenses and so forth would be a fun direction for growth. But trying to bring raiding into the current game and current base setup... I think it would be a time-costly mess that wouldn't please any but a few.

[Shenanigunner]

8 minutes ago, Darkneblade said:

Unlimited base building space

 

Maybe. But the biggest plot is pretty damned big.

 

And you can just combine accounts with shared teleport macros, right?

ETA: the notion of pre-configured teleport destinations could be implemented to allow seamless base-sharing.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Shenanigunner

[TemporalVileTerror]

Oh!  And an automated way to get a Base Save and Base Load feature developed.  Along with an automated way to get the "infinite floor extensions" on Homecoming.  Both of those features are fantastic, but the manual nature of them understandably precludes them from use on a server of this size.

[NPC-Goblin]

Round and curved surfaces in differend sizes, and yes to an on/off switch to base pvp 

[Coyotedancer]

For what are probably obvious reasons... I want the Oranbegan architectural pieces. The stairs, angled walls, tunnel edgings and all that, to go along with the wooden bits, crystals, giant heads and such that we've already got.

 

(Yes. I may want to make an Oranbegan base that actually LOOKS like an Oranbegan map. 😝)  

[Shenanigunner]

1 minute ago, Coyotedancer said:

(Yes. I may want to make an Oranbegan base that actually LOOKS like an Oranbegan map. 😝)  

 

There may still be time for you to get help. 😝

[Coyotedancer]

Just now, Shenanigunner said:

 

There may still be time for you to get help. 😝

It's far, far too late for that... 

[EmperorSteele]

I'd like access to more City parts: Road tiles, sidewalks, buildings, etc

Also, +1 on making smaller, more sensical versions of functional SG objects, like the storage bins and meeting tables.

As for PvP bases, I believe trying to get them to work in the current set-up would be a non-starter, and more trouble than it's worth. I think a new system could be made from scratch to create PvP/PvE-enabled bases/maps, which then would have cross-compatibility with AE.

[Xenosone]

Target dummies.at least even level

[Eva Destruction]

5 hours ago, Shenanigunner said:

Can't disagree, however... you can "bury" the current versions in other objects so that only some small part sticks out of, say, a wall.

 

That takes care of the ugliness, but not the size.

 

5 hours ago, Shenanigunner said:

Again, can 't disagree, but I wonder how it could be implemented with any time-to-value ratio. The grid scaling gives quite a bit of precision if you use it right. I find it more troubling that you can only accurately move stuff if it's in front of you and to the left; any other relative positioning between your alt and it makes movement erratic or impossible. Not sure it that can be fixed (easily).

It gives you quite a bit of precision with small items.  When you place a large item, it's just one or two grid points out of alignment, and you try to line it up again you have to drag it back from the other side of the room sometimes, and if your base is big there's also lag to content with so it takes multiple tries to get items lined up and then you get carpal tunnel syndrome.  Moving things up and down is fairly easy, but moving on horizontal axes is not so much.

[Eva Destruction]

3 hours ago, TemporalVileTerror said:

While I imagine the same limitation which prevents the Market from being accessible in Bases may also prevent this, but being able to have Architect Entertainment Contacts and Doors available inside a Base would be absolutely incredible.  ESPECIALLY if we could set the Contact to only provide specific Missions.

Yeah, it does.  The AE accolade power doesn't work in instances.  Which is unfortunate because I'd love to have a holodeck in my base.

[Naomi]

Some of the requested items haven't been included intentionally, so maybe this can shed some light on why:

- Alphabets: Even under their own tab, they can grow unwieldy, since each font consists of 26+ items, or 52+ if we're including an upper & lowercase set for it.

I think players would naturally want more styles going forward (neon sign letters, and so forth), so it can quickly add up. There's also some other considerations like kerning, poly-count, whether a font is done as planes + alpha or real geometry, which set of sizes is most ideal, and so on.

Ultimately, fonts would be better served with a special section where you could select a style, tint and scale, type something in and have those letters "grouped" as 1 selectable word object that you could then place as a regular object. Regarding kerning and letter placement, it can be very time consuming and annoying when you misalign them when you're trying to center text somewhere.

- Lights: We could add vertex lights by themselves as objects, which would be great for outside of the plot where base lights don't exist, but they would currently be static.. so like the alphabets, a decision on the available colors, brightness and fall-off radius would have to be decided in advance. If a color and fall-off selector UI like in the map editor were added for a single light object, that would be much more ideal.

- Tintable "walls" and basic shapes (this includes glass windows and stairs, etc): The thing about these is, they require extra planning. Once you set out to make a set of modular components, you can't really go back and make changes once people start using them in their base (for a lot of obvious reasons). Planning the right sizes, corners, floor and ceiling styles (for any imaginable interior and exterior themed set) is pretty important, as it will dictate what can and can't be easily used and put together with other sets. Ideally, for the most bang for your buck, you would really want to favor compatibility here with other themed sets.

 

This is probably a really wordy way of explaining that you're basically trying to design objects as if they were going to be used to build the zones in the game, which a lot of the older zones are all put together from (the environment and buildings).. and while the map editor has more advanced controls, by and large, most of the bulk of what you make up a zone with fits very well together for the map editors to use - it also makes zones look much more consistent and clean.

I know a few basic shapes is all that's really being asked for, but I wouldn't feel that good about leaving the bar that low and calling it a day. On top of this, like the alphabets and lights, a texture swap selector for a set of parts would allow us to re-use the same geometry of a "set" to add more variety, without spamming the item list with 10 variations of "8ft Corner Wall 1", "10 ft Corner Wall 1" and so on.

Speaking of planning for these, things like wall height (a possible point of community debate) and poly-count could make or break the whole thing. Modular parts like this actually require that most of the set have the same poly density as the smallest component because of the way vertex lighting works in bases. Anyone who's tried to put a large brick plate surface down next to a small brick plate knows that the lighting doesn't play nice, despite the fact they're otherwise seamless. This is because the large brick plate has the same number of polys, just larger in size. You would have to subdivide the large plate into 16 just so the lighting is compatible with the smaller parts that are designed to fit together with it. Overall, you'd have much higher poly-count bases that made use of modular sets. I wouldn't really feel comfortable even starting the planning phase until some solid performance testing was done beforehand. It's possible that high density meshes everywhere will cripple the editor every time the base flickers when it tries to re-light everything.


Overall, these all require code-changes. I would venture to say they are non-radical code changes, as in, within potential reach in the future, which means that if you got the basics now, there's the potential that all of it becomes legacy content no one uses anymore in the future.

My personal wish list would be, aside from the above features:

- Fixing item drift (I have never built outside of the plot for this reason alone, aside from lighting limitations)

- Keyword filtering per object for the search box, rather than just on name. (typing "table" currently shows all objects that have the word "tintable" in them).
- Interactive objects in bases (turning lights on and off, playing music, opening and closing doors). Basically a script to replace one object with another when it's clicked on. Persistence saving would be done as though the user had edited the base themselves.
- The option to hide all the base walls and floors
- Larger horizontal editing area 2x, 3x or 4x the size of the current max sized plot, basically.
- Item grouping as player-renamable sub-objects (this is one reason I've avoided working on holiday decorations.. putting a ton of them up in the base every year and deleting them is a slog. If you could save a group like an AE arc and load them up that would be amazing)
- Base saving / loading / backing up like costume slots (if debate around base theft and technical issues aside involving item storage were resolved).
- Personal housing per character, or the ability to join multiple groups to include the one you are an owner of.