Zapp vs Moonbeam

[Haijinx]

I know I read something about these being actually the same scale.  But Mid's seems to think Moonbeam is nearly twice as good. 

 

I'd like some confirmation, since Zapp can be paired with Ball Lightning.  But everyone seems to go Moonbeam on Scrapper builds.

[Mr. Vee]

which version of mids? mine (3.0.4.7) has moonbeam only 5 damage ahead and 2 dpa. I usually end up taking moonbeam more because I often want shadow meld.

[StrikerFox]

I tested the three Epic/Ancillary snipes awhile ago on Stalkers. Bareboned, only slotted for accuracy. They did the exact same damage vs a pylon. Mace Beam would probably fall behind since smashing is resisted more often. Mace and Moon can slot one more damage proc over Zapp (Explosive Strike and Cloud Senses).

 

[BrandX]

Soul has the TK feeling Hold power, which is why I take it over Mu Mastery on my main.  As for the Snipes themselves, the damage, even in mids, looks to be about the same, w/ Gloom having just a few points lead in terms of damage, but they could really be equal in game.

 

However, if equal, still want that nice Hold 🙂  Mu Mastery's hold is 2nd or 3rd best.  😛

[Hjarki]

1 hour ago, BrandX said:

Soul has the TK feeling Hold power, which is why I take it over Mu Mastery on my main.  As for the Snipes themselves, the damage, even in mids, looks to be about the same, w/ Gloom having just a few points lead in terms of damage, but they could really be equal in game.

 

However, if equal, still want that nice Hold 🙂  Mu Mastery's hold is 2nd or 3rd best.  😛

I frequently take the epic Hold. But I never really use it. Anything that's going to be substantially hindered by a Mag 3 Hold can probably be killed in about the same time as it takes to activate the Hold. It's just a place to dump Basilisk's Gaze, so it's various features aren't important.

 

My main Soul vs. Mu criteria is actually whether I need Avalanche/Ragnarok or an extra Luck of the Gambler (i.e. defense vs. resist sets). Mace is basically the same as Mu, but it takes an extra slot to suppress the knockback (as long as I'm dumping 100M worth of enhancements into an AE power, I might as well use it) and the weapon visual normally doesn't go with my costume.

[Haijinx]

Thanks!

 

Yeah I guess my Mid's is just outdated. 

 

I was thinking for basically the reason that Ball Lightning is a very fast animating AOE and I never really need a Hold, or Shadow Meld, in most my builds 

[tidge]

9 hours ago, StrikerFox said:

I tested the three Epic/Ancillary snipes awhile ago on Stalkers. Bareboned, only slotted for accuracy. They did the exact same damage vs a pylon. Mace Beam would probably fall behind since smashing is resisted more often. Mace and Moon can slot one more damage proc over Zapp (Explosive Strike and Cloud Senses).

I've never tried to %proc the Scrapper/Stalker Snipes, except as a 5-piece set (with a %proc, almost always Sting of the Manticore) and then a 6th %proc from another set (Apocalypse %negative, at lvl 50). YMMV, but for my Inf there are 5-piece set bonuses worth chasing for what will be the only (or one of very few) ranged attacks for these AT. With the Homecoming changes to Snipes, these can become reliable parts of your offense.

 

As to the OP, the powers are practically identical in terms of numbers. I typically go with Moonbeam because of the ability to add a LotG mule via Shadow Meld.

[BrandX]

9 hours ago, Hjarki said:

I frequently take the epic Hold. But I never really use it. Anything that's going to be substantially hindered by a Mag 3 Hold can probably be killed in about the same time as it takes to activate the Hold. It's just a place to dump Basilisk's Gaze, so it's various features aren't important.

 

My main Soul vs. Mu criteria is actually whether I need Avalanche/Ragnarok or an extra Luck of the Gambler (i.e. defense vs. resist sets). Mace is basically the same as Mu, but it takes an extra slot to suppress the knockback (as long as I'm dumping 100M worth of enhancements into an AE power, I might as well use it) and the weapon visual normally doesn't go with my costume.

 

For me, the hold is for LGTFs and Hami Raids. 🙂  Also, I like them for concept too, because they're nice looking powers.  I actually wish my Elec/Storm Troller's holds, looked like Mu's Hold in terms of animation.

[StrikerFox]

10 hours ago, Hjarki said:

I frequently take the epic Hold. But I never really use it. Anything that's going to be substantially hindered by a Mag 3 Hold can probably be killed in about the same time as it takes to activate the Hold. It's just a place to dump Basilisk's Gaze, so it's various features aren't important.

My favorite hold is Spirit Shark Jaws. It can slot ranged/hold IOs so it's mag can stack to 7 with Devastation/Lockdown procs equipped. Able to slot damage procs from 2 purp sets, Apocalypse and Unbreakable Constraint.

 

3 hours ago, tidge said:

I've never tried to %proc the Scrapper/Stalker Snipes, except as a 5-piece set (with a %proc, almost always Sting of the Manticore) and then a 6th %proc from another set (Apocalypse %negative, at lvl 50). YMMV, but for my Inf there are 5-piece set bonuses worth chasing for what will be the only (or one of very few) ranged attacks for these AT. With the Homecoming changes to Snipes, these can become reliable parts of your offense.

Definitely don't drop IO set bonuses (for procs) if it will mess up your build. But if your survival, end rec, recharge, stats etc, are at a level where the set bonus isn't really needed, proc it up.

 

Below is Moonbeam's damage through one pylon run with a Stalker. Mb activated 9 times, 31 procs out of a maximum of 36. Around 85% proc rate.