The Warriors are boring - is that a problem?

[DougGraves]

I'm not saying they are underpowered or overpowered.  They are just boring.  Their look is so normal it is boring  Their attacks are boring.  I can't think of any special types of warriors like sorcerers or shamans that you pay special attention to.  They just seem like a generic mob of guys with swords.

 

Is that a problem?  Is it less fun to do missions with them?  Is it good because they are the palate cleanser between other groups?

[Haijinx]

 

[Piecemeal]

*coughs*

[Glacier Peak]

2 minutes ago, Piecemeal said:

*coughs*

[Luminara]

11 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

 

 

[Techwright]

48 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

 

Is that a problem?  Is it less fun to do missions with them?  Is it good because they are the palate cleanser between other groups?

In the very early days, I used to see them as a challenge because I'd not fully adjusted to game play back then, and several of them hit stunningly hard.  I had to learn to not play a planted-foot fighting style.

 

They do seem more sedate now.  I think it's because by lore, they focus on being the pinnacle of natural human perfection, rather than pushing beyond that using other means, like the Hellions do.    Perhaps if they were given a bit more of a tweak to that human perfection concept: like some have trained to a faster attack, and others dodge/weave better, or have mixed martial arts skills.  It might not break the lore if they were given a natural means to temporarily boost their powers, like say drinking the juice of an exotic, rare berry or herb.

[merrypessimist]

Now I want to see a female Warrior AV, preferably one who uses dual pistols.  Blame Luminara's video. :)

[Sakai]

I don't recall the last time I actively fought the Warriors.  That being said I have yet to rerun Wheel of Destruction since coming home. I don't honestly recall how much they are in there but I know I enjoyed the arc lots. 

 

The Warriors for me were always wanna be Hellions.   Street level gang that is afraid to dabble in the true dark arts.  What's the point?  No real threat and kind of an uninspired backstory. 

 

I occasionally attack one as I am running by but that is more of a twitchy finger then any real desire. Seems there is a badge so eventually I will have to face them. 

[Bionic_Flea]

1 hour ago, merrypessimist said:

Now I want to see a female Warrior AV, preferably one who uses dual pistols.  Blame Luminara's video. 🙂

Only if her pre-fight animation has her shooting a wall with a broken heart graffiti.

 

[tidge]

2 hours ago, DougGraves said:

I'm not saying they are underpowered or overpowered.  They are just boring.  Their look is so normal it is boring  Their attacks are boring.  I can't think of any special types of warriors like sorcerers or shamans that you pay special attention to. 

[Techwright]

1 hour ago, merrypessimist said:

Now I want to see a female Warrior AV, preferably one who uses dual pistols.  Blame Luminara's video. 🙂

I've not seen Luminara's video, but in lore context, wouldn't the Warriors frown on guns as beneath their physical perfection creed?  They use bows, but it does take some physical training to draw some of the more powerful bows.  A female Warrior AV though, would be a welcomed addition.

[SentaiLavender]

The Warriors are one of my favorite enemy groups. They tie into the Greek mythology motifs of Talos Island, and the idea of a modern street gang using antiquated weaponry is just so charmingly silly. I also play a lot of Natural characters who don't have any real "superpowers" beyond training and willpower, for which the Warriors are a fitting enemy, RP-wise. And as mentioned above, their melee attacks can hit hard, which teaches new players distancing and fluid movement in combat. I just wish they had a little more presence in the game.

[DougGraves]

2 hours ago, Sakai said:

The Warriors for me were always wanna be Hellions.   Street level gang that is afraid to dabble in the true dark arts.  What's the point?  No real threat and kind of an uninspired backstory.

It always seemed weird to me that the Warriors and Family who use regular weapons are more powerful than the skulls, hellions, and trolls that have super powers.

[Soyuz]

To be fair, the Family do display actual superpowers, most notably with their psychic bosses, so I suspect there's an undercurrent of that running throughout the whole group.

 

I think the Warriors are there in part to justify the Natural origin. To show that sheer hard work and learned skill can triumph over shortcuts to power, making them tougher than groups like the Hellions and the Trolls.

 

Then of course the Freakshow come along and steal their lunch money, so...

[summers]

5 hours ago, DougGraves said:

It always seemed weird to me that the Warriors and Family who use regular weapons are more powerful than the skulls, hellions, and trolls that have super powers.

The Family definitely have super powers, and there's a Lore reason they have all the Gravity wormholey stuff too.

[Clave Dark 5]

I have to admit I'm not wowed by the Warriors.  I like their nod to the movie of the same name, but beyond that (well they do make decent enough opponents), they're just rather dull ones.  Feel the same about the Family, super powers or no.  "Oooo, guys in suits are going to punch or shoot me, oooo, gang members!"  I mean, I know there's a bit more than that to both, but I'm really here for the further out ideas like "teleporting rocket pack soldiers" or something.

 

But I do still enjoying walking down a street when I'm much higher level and seeing how far I can send one flying with some KB powers.

[Greycat]

11 hours ago, DougGraves said:

Is that a problem?

No. It's just variety. I've got characters that they and their attitude/aesthetic fit perfectly.

 

11 hours ago, DougGraves said:

 I can't think of any special types of warriors like sorcerers or shamans that you pay special attention to.

 

They have very few named bosses.  Higher up, though, there are some artifacts in use. I think the main reason is just that they're blown by so quickly nobody remembers.

[Piecemeal]

Odysseus shows us in Mortimer Kal's Strike Force that not only are they organized, but they run like a business, and that business is the acquisition, trade, and sale of magical relics.

 

Which I always found curious, because until the Fists of Vulcan, they never really used any of them, aside from Heracles' use of the Ring of Peebles. I don't think anyone would object to these pinnacles of human perfection being rewarded with the use of relics to augment their already formidable powers... would they? 🤭

[KC4800]

The only Warriors I fear are the purple ones I have to sneak past in Talos when I'm trying to fight Tsoo and/or Freaks in my low 20's and I forgot to Stealth.

[Black Zot]

20 minutes ago, Piecemeal said:

Odysseus shows us in Mortimer Kal's Strike Force that not only are they organized, but they run like a business, and that business is the acquisition, trade, and sale of magical relics.

 

Which I always found curious, because until the Fists of Vulcan, they never really used any of them, aside from Heracles' use of the Ring of Peebles. I don't think anyone would object to these pinnacles of human perfection being rewarded with the use of relics to augment their already formidable powers... would they? 🤭

 

See, this is the point where the Warriors lore falls apart.  In a city where everyone and his dog has access to something over and above what a normal human can do, these guys have access to a means to match them and ... just don't use it.  Even the thickest of people has to acknowledge that there's a hard limit to what you can achieve through training and effort alone, and that limit just doesn't cut it when you're up against folks with training, effort, AND the ability to knock you through the wall with a belch (or whatever).

 

I can't take the Warriors seriously as a threat, other than the odd guy who actually breaks out the magic toys.  They're just one more street gang for heroes to curbstomp when you're not dealing with REAL enemies.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Black Zot

[Techwright]

28 minutes ago, Piecemeal said:

 I don't think anyone would object to these pinnacles of human perfection being rewarded with the use of relics to augment their already formidable powers... would they? 🤭

 

6 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

I can't take the Warriors seriously as a threat, other than the odd guy who actually breaks out the magic toys.  They're just one more street gang for heroes to curbstomp when you're not dealing with REAL enemies.

Perhaps that's what's needed:  an evolution and clarification in their story line where they no longer see the peak of human ability as an end-all, but instead train to the limits of human ability, and are rewarded by their gang with equipment at "legendary" status to push them farther up the food chain.  So then the equipment reward ceremony and training is their equivalent of incarnate status.  And hey, tiny shards of the well found where the well should have been?  Those are "augments".  Natural origin heroes and villains seek them out.   Why can't the upper levels of the Warriors have stories of seeking those as well?

[Coyotedancer]

Yes. They're boringly  'normal'... 

Is that a problem? No. Not really.

 

I mean, to put it bluntly, do we actually *need* for a group of supposedly mostly-normal ganger guys to have likely-to-be-more-annoying-than-fun "gimmick mobs"? Don't the Tsoo, BP, Skyraiders, Freaks and prone-to-wolfing-out Council already have that niche covered in their level range?

[JasonZZ]

16 hours ago, DougGraves said:

I'm not saying they are underpowered or overpowered.  They are just boring.  Their look is so normal it is boring  Their attacks are boring.  I can't think of any special types of warriors like sorcerers or shamans that you pay special attention to.  They just seem like a generic mob of guys with swords.

 

Is that a problem?  Is it less fun to do missions with them?  Is it good because they are the palate cleanser between other groups?

I'm as fine with them being unpowered as the rest of the folks seem to be. But if you're interested in making them more than just a band of brawlers, maybe the lieutenant-class members could have some kind of (hopefully non-stacking) leadership/support auras. You could even mix up the bonus by type.

[ForeverLaxx]

Honestly, as boring as the Warriors are on the surface, they fill an important role in the world. There are street gangs at every level, and obviously there has to be a hierarchy to them or they all just end up like the Skulls and Hellions: constantly battling each other for turf instead of getting actual "work" done.

 

While the Skulls and Hellions fight for petty turf in the zones most populated by heroes, and the Family is content peddling drugs to make weaker groups/gangs dependent on them, the Warriors deal in illegal artifact trading which has them come into contact with extremely powerful objects on a daily basis. Unlike the Family, which use their own drug to boost themselves (albeit in the more pure form), Warriors have a level of honor and integrity to them that other street gangs don't. They value natural physical performance before anything else and prefer to keep things up close and personal when fighting Supers. The fact that they're the higher-level gang enemy shows just how powerful training your body to the extreme can be, especially since the actual "super powered" gangs (Skulls/Hellions) wallow under the heel of newbie heroes.

 

Now, why more of the higher ranked Warriors don't then "augment" themselves with the artifacts they steal more often always confused me. I get their desire to be the best relying only on their own strength, but that can be converted into a proving ritual of sorts. Once you're as strong as you're likely to get, and prove yourself in some manner, you're bequeathed an artifact to cement your place.

[Hew]

There are no actual "natural" enemies past the warriors. Everyone in Crey are Science. You get arachnos with guns, but then most of those are science too (crabs w/ backpacks, sciencey stealth powers), leaving just the guys with machine guns...

 

Oh, correction. You get the medics in Crey, which oddly, are natural origin (guns, med packs)