Activating all Armor Toggles

[arcane]

20 hours ago, Nerio72 said:

It would be much easier to hit one button for my combos also, can we do that too?  I don't really want that, just trying to show how once you start doing things like this where we're headed. Pretty soon we just log in and all the enemies fall over "arrested"? I have toggle heavy toons and yes it's a pain sometimes but I'm my opinion, I don't think it should be that easy, that's the trade off for having those powers. Again, just my opinion...

And already, quite literally, that’s all fire brutes have had to do for years. Turn on toggles, put burn on auto, go make a sandwich, baddies fall over “arrested”. Just amuses me that your post isn’t even hyperbole to some specialized builds (and circumstances..)

Edited February 24, 2021 by arcaneholocaust

[Shenanigunner]

20 hours ago, Nerio72 said:

Pretty soon we just log in and all the enemies fall over "arrested"?

 

This does seem to be the goal of some players; start with the response about fire farmers.

 

My thoughts are that if you're that bored with the game, move on. And if it's only about max-DPS-Inf-XP at all costs... maybe you need to look up the definition of "game."

 

"It's a game. Games are supposed to be fun." - Jack Elliot

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Shenanigunner

[arthurh35353]

8 minutes ago, Shenanigunner said:

"It's a game. Games are supposed to be fun." - Jack Elliot

And yet when some things are brought up that isn't fun for some people (like having to retoggle all your armors regularly) people complain that it's part of the game and experience.

 

And it doesn't seem to match up thematically from any comic books I've ever read.

 

Superman - "Sorry, hold up a second. I'm so tired for a second that I accidentally dropped my invulnerability and I need to strike a pose as I turn on my invulnerabilities!"

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, arthurh35353 said:

And yet when some things are brought up that isn't fun for some people (like having to retoggle all your armors regularly) people complain that it's part of the game and experience.

 

And it doesn't seem to match up thematically from any comic books I've ever read.

 

Superman - "Sorry, hold up a second. I'm so tired for a second that I accidentally dropped my invulnerability and I need to strike a pose as I turn on my invulnerabilities!"

Well there was the phone booth thing he always did.  That's how I view armor retoggling.

[Shenanigunner]

1 minute ago, arthurh35353 said:

And yet when some things are brought up that isn't fun for some people (like having to retoggle all your armors regularly) people complain that it's part of the game and experience.

 

The game fundamentals were built as part of a careful balance, and the kinks pretty much worked out in the first few Issues.

 

I suggest that if you really don't like toggle-heavy builds, then choose other builds. And if you don't like this very fundamental aspect of the game, perhaps it's the wrong game for you. (Quite seriously... not just blowing you off, here.)

 

You are asking for a fundamental part of the game design/play/strategy to be nerfed so that you can build an alt meant to have to work around that hurdle. I don't think the fault lies with the game, here.

 

[arthurh35353]

10 minutes ago, Shenanigunner said:

The game fundamentals were built as part of a careful balance, and the kinks pretty much worked out in the first few Issues.

That doesn't mean that [toggles] aren't an odd thought and don't actually fit that thematically. Activating the toggle with long animation times that can be interrupted/replaced with activating other toggles (mean you could miss key them in order if you aren't careful) is a rather overcomplicated set, especially if you have a lot of toggles.

 

So I feel the idea that when you activate your T1 armor power and it activates all of your armors at once is actually a nice Quality of Life change, especially for Kheldians and their shape changing. The fact that it would make life much less of a hassle for armor mains can only be considered a benefit.

 

Animation lock during a fight is for what reason? To give the enemy a chance to kill you so you can earn more debt? To annoy people into not playing a tanker?

 

 

[arcane]

I’m sorry but if you still can’t see why we can’t have powers firing simultaneously for obvious balance reasons after reading responses to this thread, I think we’re at a loss and pretty much done here.

[SwitchFade]

@arthurh35353

Rather than quoting the multiple posts...

 

Your opinion that it's QoL has been noted and directly discussed with counter evidence: it is most decidedly NOT QoL.

 

Your opinion that it's not necessary or thematic is again notes, we respect you have that opinion... Many disagree and have provided commentary and evidence supporting their position as well.

 

Your insistence that your opinion about the requested change is nothing but a benefit, ignoring all discussion about the negative repricussions, indicates you're not willing to acknowledge any presented evidence that does not support your claims.

 

If you're ROUTINELY retoggling... You're doing something dramatically wrong, it should be a rare occurence. Perhaps a bit of tactical gameplay coaching would help? Many of us would be happy to help you with some guidance.

 

I understand your position. Please refer to the multiple answers in this thread, should you need to review the many reasons why this idea is not desirable.

 

Sorry, no vote remains for me.

Edited February 24, 2021 by SwitchFade

[Shenanigunner]

Completely redesigning a major aspect of the game isn't in the cards, IMVVVVHO.

[Outrider_01]

5 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

 

Superman - "Sorry, hold up a second. I'm so tired for a second that I accidentally dropped my invulnerability and I need to strike a pose as I turn on my invulnerabilities!"

When superman got his ass handed to him and plowed a ditch for a few hundred feet, his toggles dropped.  And then he got back up, paused to collect himself taking  a kneeling posd, followed alwith a deep breath and went back into the fight.

[arcane]

The guys in Dragon Ball Z sometimes take several minutes to retoggle. Count yourselves lucky.

[arthurh35353]

3 hours ago, Shenanigunner said:

Completely redesigning a major aspect of the game isn't in the cards, IMVVVVHO.

I know you like to post that as total fact, but you aren't an actual developer as far as I know.

 

6 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

If you're ROUTINELY retoggling... You're doing something dramatically wrong, it should be a rare occurence. Perhaps a bit of tactical gameplay coaching would help? Many of us would be happy to help you with some guidance.

Or I might want to play a tri-form kheldian?

[Hyperstrike]

30 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

I know you like to post that as total fact, but you aren't an actual developer as far as I know.

I happen to know several of the devs.

I can pretty confidently say that he's more or less dead-on.
 

 

[arcane]

35 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

Or I might want to play a tri-form kheldian?

Are you acknowledging that this request is only for tri-form kheldians then? If not, no logical reason to bring up the outlier.

 

Also, both my khelds are all human but.. well-played tri formers don’t seriously carry a lot of toggles do they? That sounds like awful playing to me. 

[Shenanigunner]

1 hour ago, arthurh35353 said:

I know you like to post that as total fact, but you aren't an actual developer as far as I know.

 

I am not. I merely have about 30 years in and around advanced software development and systems architecture.

 

I am also not among those who whine like kicked puppies when (1) encountering an aspect of gameplay they don't like or (2) not getting universal support when they insist it can/must be changed.

 

/donehere Okay, I guess not.

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Shenanigunner

[arthurh35353]

31 minutes ago, arcaneholocaust said:

Are you acknowledging that this request is only for tri-form kheldians then? If not, no logical reason to bring up the outlier.

 

Also, both my khelds are all human but.. well-played tri formers don’t seriously carry a lot of toggles do they? That sounds like awful playing to me. 

Why, if it so useful for Kheldians wouldn't you want to port this as a feature and benefit to have less hassle for your players?

 

Are you really so petty that something is only good for one thing and shouldn't be shared for the benefit of all?

  

34 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

I happen to know several of the devs.

I can pretty confidently say that he's more or less dead-on.
 

 

He very well might be. It may not be a total rewrite of code, considering that the developers have indeed changed the way individual toggle powers work (exclusive toggles that turn off the other power).

 

In fact, it's basically the same functionality, except to turn on those other toggles.

 

And yet, he states as if totally certain fact that it would be too much work.

 

But I'll be very truthful, the absolute negative attitude here towards ideas is really harmful to suggestions. Even if you don't think it's something you would work on, instantly naysaying means that the idea would not have been mentioned as a wonderful fix for Kheldians.

 

And that came from this discussion.

Edited February 25, 2021 by arthurh35353

[Shenanigunner]

21 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

And yet, he states as if totally certain fact that it would be too much work.

 

The amount of work involved is entirely secondary (although not insignificant). The issues with distorting gameplay are 95% of my argument.

 

And I've not only been a player since launch, but a contributor of considerable technical documentation and reference to related aspects of the game... so yeah, I do think I know what I'm talking about in this respect.

 

You are merely continuing to whine. Grow up, pal.

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, arthurh35353 said:

 

 

Or I might want to play a tri-form kheldian?

Tri-form warshader here...

 

That's a completely separate issue,

 

1. Kheldians tri-formers by and large do not use toggle human powers, as they will not be slotted well, offering little value

 

2. Kheldians tri-formers spend little time in human form, it is utility, negating any real benefit of toggles.

 

3. Kheldian human power toggles should suppress when shifted, never actually shut off.

 

If you follow the Kheldians boards and threads therein, there are numerous reasons why the change to toggles you propose would not solve the Kheldian human form issues, toggle suppression would. So, your example actually validates you are actually causing the issue you are observing. I'm happy to offer tri-form guidance, should you choose.

[PeregrineFalcon]

33 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

But I'll be very truthful, the absolute negative attitude here towards ideas is really harmful to suggestions. Even if you don't think it's something you would work on, instantly naysaying means that the idea would not have been mentioned as a wonderful fix for Kheldians.

No.

 

Just because people's attitudes have been negative in this thread doesn't mean that they're negative in all threads. It just means that the people who are posting don't like your idea.

 

Plus, the developers are going to do what they're going to do. I really doubt that they're going to do or not do something just because I, or a few others in this thread, don't like it.

[SwitchFade]

36 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

Why, if it so useful for Kheldians wouldn't you want to port this as a feature and benefit to have less hassle for your players?

 

Are you really so petty that something is only good for one thing and shouldn't be shared for the benefit of all?

  

He very well might be. It may not be a total rewrite of code, considering that the developers have indeed changed the way individual toggle powers work (exclusive toggles that turn off the other power).

 

In fact, it's basically the same functionality, except to turn on those other toggles.

 

And yet, he states as if totally certain fact that it would be too much work.

 

But I'll be very truthful, the absolute negative attitude here towards ideas is really harmful to suggestions. Even if you don't think it's something you would work on, instantly naysaying means that the idea would not have been mentioned as a wonderful fix for Kheldians.

 

And that came from this discussion.

No one instantly naysayers you. Some people no voted, for good reason. Many explained why with evidence.

 

It's not a fact that it's the same functionality, as you say, it is a foundational change with so much potential for fallout that I would never allow such a flippant core change to basecode of any system that I design.

 

Also, @Shenanigunner did not state anything "as a fact" he actually said "IMVVVVVHO" if you scroll back and look.

 

he said "in his humble opinion." I'm very sorry, but you're actually starting to distort facts, which is a highly questionable practice. I would advise against that.

[SwitchFade]

5 hours ago, Shenanigunner said:

Completely redesigning a major aspect of the game isn't in the cards, IMVVVVHO.

Here's the quote, so you don't have to scroll back up.

[arthurh35353]

27 minutes ago, Shenanigunner said:

 

The amount of work involved is entirely secondary (although not insignificant). The issues with distorting gameplay are 95% of my argument.

 

And I've not only been a player since launch, but a contributor of considerable technical documentation and reference to related aspects of the game... so yeah, I do think I know what I'm talking about in this respect.

 

You are merely continuing to whine. Grow up, pal.

I noticed you ignored anything that could be construed as a possible rebuttal. Like the fact that some of the coding had been done in the past (exclusive toggles that turned off the opposite), like I mentioned. And just like you, I've been here since Beta.

 

But nope. More important 'to win' the argument. It's much more important to shout down possible ideas than even think that they might make life easier and less of a hassle.

[PeregrineFalcon]

8 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

It's much more important to shout down possible ideas than even think that they might make life easier and less of a hassle.

Here's an idea that might make your life less of a hassle. Build your characters better so that you're not dying and having to retoggle all of the time.

[SwitchFade]

8 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

I noticed you ignored anything that could be construed as a possible rebuttal. Like the fact that some of the coding had been done in the past (exclusive toggles that turned off the opposite), like I mentioned. And just like you, I've been here since Beta.

 

But nope. More important 'to win' the argument. It's much more important to shout down possible ideas than even think that they might make life easier and less of a hassle.

I'm sorry, that's not how coding works. While it may seem that a script, or code, or anything- written for the function you are mentioning could apply to something else... It's not at all like that. The knowledge that the human gains applies, but the actual code will not, it would be new work. Further, it would be quite extensive and touch nearly everything else.

 

No one is shouting down your idea. We are, however, very clearly pointing out that it is not one that should even be attempted.

[twozerofoxtrot]

7 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Here's an idea that might make your life less of a hassle. Build your characters better so that you're not dying and having to retoggle all of the time.

*Sad regen brute noises*