Is Regen still worth playing?

[Taboo]

lol

comedy

SR with 3 IOs is like 30% good luck Billz

[Bill Z Bubba]

25 minutes ago, Taboo said:

lol

comedy

SR with 3 IOs is like 30% good luck Billz

43.29% with cj, manuevers and weave. Plus scaling resists. It'll stomp regen with SOs without even breaking a sweat.

 

Not to mention throwing tough and 3 SOs into health into the mix. Of course there's also body mastery for even more regen backed by near softcapped defense to ALL positions.

 

Yea, this is brute/scrapper values. Cuz we can't get regen on tanks. Cuz it'd still suck.

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Bill Z Bubba

[Taboo]

3 defense buff IOs in each SR defensive power is around 30%.

 

Ignoring your additions if looking at just the armor sets. "but, but, but" - @Bill Z Bubba

[Bill Z Bubba]

Yea, I'm willing to take that bet. All that extra HP ain't gonna matter as soon as DP drops.

 

[Taboo]

Oh I see, you think building some defense helps. That is incorrect.

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

9 minutes ago, Taboo said:

3 defense buff IOs in each SR defensive power is around 30%.

 

Ignoring your additions if looking at just the armor sets. "but, but, but" - @Bill Z Bubba

Ok. Show your work.

 

Here's mine.

 

Regen at its best, everything running, SOs, no pools.

 

 

SR at its best, everything running, SOs, no pools.

 

 

Regen's extra HP is awesome. Too bad it's going to be hit by EVERYTHING. Edit: And the pics still don't show SR's scaling resists. LOL.

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Bill Z Bubba

[Bill Z Bubba]

10 minutes ago, Taboo said:

Oh I see, you think building some defense helps. That is incorrect.

Oh, I see you think defense doesn't matter in this game. Wow. You should play more.

 

It's really too bad that with SOs dull pain and instant healing are up soooo very rarely.

 

Cuz for most of the time it actually looks like this:

 

 

Hmm.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Bill Z Bubba

[Taboo]

A little bit of defense does not matter if there are other attributes that could have additive effects. Maybe you should play more. SR is the games easy button.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, Taboo said:

SR is the games easy button.

Thank you so much for adding your opinion to validate the inferiority of regen as a mitigation set.

[Erratic1]

4 hours ago, Werner said:

You’ve reminded me how I felt about Regen back in the day. I hated when it was nerfed, but eventually fell in love with what was left. Because what was left was a set where death was almost always my own fault. I could have survived if only I’d played it better. It was like Regen never let me down, I let Regen down, and it left me with a fierce urge to do better, to prove to Regen that I was worthy. 

 

Sounds dangerously close to an abusive relationship here--"If I'd just supported Regen more it wouldn't have let those 5th Column members beat me to death."

 

[America's Angel]

7 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Why bother playing an armor set that must use inspirations or team buffs to get the job done when other sets don't need such crutches?

5 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Isn't that SR doesn't need to use as many purples a benefit in of itself?

 

Ideally you want to pick a secondary that does things you can't replicate with insps. It pushes your potential higher.

 

Inspirations exist in this game. At the high end of min/maxing, chaining inspirations is how you get the most out of your characters.

 

It's how my 11% defense fire/fire blaster can clear an ITF in like 15 mins.

[Taboo]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Thank you so much for adding your opinion to validate the inferiority of regen as a mitigation set.

Sad.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, America's Angel said:

Ideally you want to pick a secondary that does things you can't replicate with insps. It pushes your potential higher.

 

Inspirations exist in this game. At the high end of min/maxing, chaining inspirations is how you get the most out of your characters.

 

It's how my 11% defense fire/fire blaster can clear an ITF in like 15 mins.

And it's also how my fire farmer clears AE maps. We can ALL chew the right insps to completely trounce the PvE environment. It doesn't matter what armor set we use and it doesn't make regen special or in any way at any time superior to the other armor sets. It just means you know which insps suit your build the most. And we all know how to do that.

[America's Angel]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

And it's also how my fire farmer clears AE maps. We can ALL chew the right insps to completely trounce the PvE environment. It doesn't matter what armor set we use and it doesn't make regen special or in any way at any time superior to the other armor sets. It just means you know which insps suit your build the most. And we all know how to do that.

Ideally you want to pick a secondary that does things you can't replicate with insps. It pushes your potential higher.

[Piecemeal]

Can I politely step in and say that this conversation is teetering back and forth, and might not go in a constructive and positive direction if the tit-for-tat keeps going? Because I'm pretty sure someone else will say it if I don't.

 

Please pump the brakes, folks.

[Bill Z Bubba]

11 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

Ideally you want to pick a secondary that does things you can't replicate with insps. It pushes your potential higher.

Ok. Name one.

 

SR can eat oranges and greens.

Regen can eat purples and greens. Edit: Oops. Regen needs oranges not greens.

Bio can eat oranges and purples.

Ice can eat oranges and greens.

Inv can eat purples and greens.

Stone can eat greens... but is still screwed as soon as a curb comes along.

etc etc etc.

 

What armor set can't correct any hole it has with insps? (Other than stone. Poor stone, so awesome yet so bad.)

Edited March 7, 2021 by Bill Z Bubba

[CaptTastic]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Because there's two completely separate paradigms at work.

 

It doesn't have to be the ITF or the MLTF or anything else. It only has to be consistent. It only has to be testable.

 

We have already fully conceded that none of this is based on "fun." If you like regen, play it. But arguing that it's some wonderful thing when actual data is showing that belief to be a lie is a nonstarter.

I mean, don't get me wrong here. I really do prefer ranged characters and ply them 90% of the time. I have no specific love for Regen if truth be told.

 

Just really commenting on the philosophy behind comparatively judging Regen, or any other set, to be honest. As far as I can ascertain, there is an assumed basis that soloing specific content on +4/x8 is a crucial benchmark for any given build's quality. I find that odd in a Massively multiplayer online game. 

 

I agree completely that 'fun' is a highly subjective concept, but surely so is 'playable'? I know I lot of people love to run x4/+8 content solo, and that is the buzz they crave. Fair enough. I have characters who can do that, but they one I play most is an Archery/TA blaster, who probably can't solo an ITF on maximum settings. I have on a fire/SR sentinel and a fire/NRG blaster, but that can't be a key metric for playability as I prefer playing the one who can't.

 

Why is the ITF the benchmark too? That feels a bit odd to me too. All sets will perform against different foes in different ways. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Put a fire-farmer in an ITF and they will not perform well in that test. Put them against fire damage and they will excel while sets with strong S/L resists burn.

 

I am not criticising you or anyone else here, just want to stress that. All opinions are good and valid as far as I am concerned. I just can't help but think the original question has been lost. 

 

Is Regen worth playing? Yes. Definitively, comprehensively, inarguably the answer is yes. It's not universally playable across the entire player base, and the degree to which it is playable is dependant upon the individual player and what they want to get out of the game, but that just makes Regan the same as literally every single other powerset in CoX.

[ForeverLaxx]

It really seems like people have missed the point behind a push for what can "fix" Regen. I don't think anyone is advocating that the set become less active since that's pretty much core to its identity. The problem people have is that even when you take the time to understand all the levers and when to apply them, you're still reliant on your attack set to provide additional breathing room that other powersets essentially never have to consider and leverage. On top of that, while you're busy juggling which Attack to use or which Heal Button you need since they get in the way of each other, other sets just push through spamming their attacks and nothing else, clearing spawns with comparative ease.

 

Regen just doesn't really reward being good at situational awareness beyond bringing you just to the same performance of a set that is far less demanding of your attention. That's the real problem, from my perspective.

[America's Angel]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Ok. Name one.

 

SR can eat oranges and greens.

Regen can eat purples and greens.

Bio can eat oranges and purples.

Ice can eat oranges and greens.

Inv can eat purples and greens.

Stone can eat greens... but is still screwed as soon as a curb comes along.

etc etc etc.

 

What armor set can't correct any hole it has with insps? (Other than stone. Poor stone, so awesome yet so bad.)

 

Regen provides +regen and +HP, and does not have its HPS reduced by autohit/unresistable attacks to the same extent other sets do.

Bio and rad provide +absorb

Damage auras and burn increase DPS.

Ice has Hibernate.

etc.

 

These things cannot be replicated with insps.

 

The benefits of SR is that it gets 20% recharge, doesn't need to use purple inspirations, and has good DDR. At the high end, that's not all that impressive.

 

At high end play you want to build for big global recharge, +HP, procs, and chaining insps.

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

The benefits of SR is that it gets 20% recharge, doesn't need to use purple inspirations, and has good DDR. At the high end, that's not all that impressive.

Define high end. You also neglected to mention SR's scaling damres which stacks with any other damres from pools or IOs and calling the best DDR in the game (read capped) good is a bit odd. It's not just cimerorans out there with defense debuffs. There's also the whole concept of debuffs having to hit in the first place to matter, something SR tends to also avoid completely.

 

As for regen providing +regen and +HP, so do Set IO bonuses, both of which I happily abuse heavily on all my SR builds... well, ok, I happily abuse them on ALL of my builds.

 

This all said, if SR is the the melee easy mode, what the heck is shield when it's numerically superior to SR in every way except DDR?

[America's Angel]

3 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Define high end. You also neglected to mention SR's scaling damres which stacks with any other damres from pools or IOs and calling the best DDR in the game (read capped) good is a bit odd. It's not just cimerorans out there with defense debuffs. There's also the whole concept of debuffs having to hit in the first place to matter, something SR tends to also avoid completely.

 

As for regen providing +regen and +HP, so do Set IO bonuses, both of which I happily abuse heavily on all my SR builds... well, ok, I happily abuse them on ALL of my builds.

 

This all said, if SR is the the melee easy mode, what the heck is shield when it's numerically superior to SR in every way except DDR?

SR's scaling damres can be replicated with orange insps.

 

Set bonuses =/= insps.

 

Ideally you want to pick a secondary that does things you can't replicate with insps. It pushes your potential higher.

 

Inspirations exist in this game. At the high end of min/maxing, chaining inspirations is how you get the most out of your characters.

[Werner]

5 minutes ago, CaptTastic said:

Just really commenting on the philosophy behind comparatively judging Regen, or any other set, to be honest. As far as I can ascertain, there is an assumed basis that soloing specific content on +4/x8 is a crucial benchmark for any given build's quality. I find that odd in a Massively multiplayer online game. 

That we found ourselves referencing soloing +4/x8 content when discussing the relative power levels of armors suggests to me that Regen is likely just fine the vast majority of the time. And that’s what seems to be reported in this thread by the people playing it, regardless of relative power level. It’s been fun for me so far. I think I’m level 16 now, and died twice? Barely started, and it was all team play today, but leveling on teams probably much better describes the typical Regen experience than soloing difficult content while fully IOd and incarnated. It’s easy for me to lose sight of that sometimes.

[Myrmidon]

@FullEclipse, the last ten pages didn’t scare you off, did they?😁

[Werner]

26 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

Inspirations exist in this game. At the high end of min/maxing, chaining inspirations is how you get the most out of your characters.

I’m perhaps unusual in this regard (?), but by the time I hit 50, or certainly by the time I’m IOd and incarnated, my inspiration tray is closed and pretty much doesn’t get touched again. Big exception for farming, combining into and chewing reds at a rapid pace. I definitely use inspirations while leveling, but that’s before I would consider myself min/maxed.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Werner

[Haijinx]

2 hours ago, CaptTastic said:

I’m just still trying to get my head around the supposed fact that being able to solo an ITF on maximum difficulty settings, the ease with which it’s possible, and the consistency with the theoretical data, is the new criteria for ‘playable’.

 

I feel like we may have, somewhere along the line, lost sight of the soul of this game among an ever-thickening fog of spreadsheets. 

Ah right.  You want the is the game balanced around IOs and should it be? Thread. 

 

We are already lamenting this fact.