Is Regen still worth playing?

[Arnabas]

I am not a big "numbers" guy. I just play what's fun. I have 2 Regen melee types that are both very fun to play, as well as one Regen Sentinel. I have no issues with any of them.

For people whose fun is being able to handle +4/ X8 and never see their health move, then for sure it won't be fun. But if you like a more active power that requires you to think a bit about how to approach your battles, it can be quite fun.

[Bill Z Bubba]

50 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

Which benefits more from purple inspirations - an SR Brute or a Regen Brute?

I thought about not posting this earlier but feel I should now.

After watching my sm/regen brute faceplant again, even with everything I had thrown at it mentioned in a prior post, I logged back on live with my claws/sr brute, unslotted all but his alpha incarnate, and cleared the first mish of the ITF without using a single inspiration. No barrier or rebirth, no hybrid upping my damage, no lore pets to help out, nothing but alpha musculature core to give him the same +1 lvl shift that the sm/regen brute effectively had on his test.

 

Why do I mention this? Because the question I've quoted means as little as the question of which set benefits more from oranges and greens, SR or Regen? It ignores the far more important question of why bother playing an armor set that must use inspirations or team buffs to get the job done when other sets don't need such crutches?

 

I do have an answer: some folks really enjoy, as they have stated, the high maintenance, high clicky, easy to fail with sets because they get more personal reward out of it. And that is 100% valid.

 

*But that should not be confused with what a set is capable of by the numbers.* I have lot of alts that I have chosen concept over performance and I don't regret a single one of them, nor should anyone else. Just seems to me that discussions about actual performance shouldn't get confused with discussions about personal preferences.

@UberGuy's ITF run up there is impressive to me just on its face. The low number of faceplants? Also very impressive. But I am curious to know what the actual run time was and how much of that time was spent kiting around waiting for clicks to refresh or gettin out of the thick to avoid faceplants and that curiosity comes from seeing what I was having to do to survive.
I know it took my claws/sr scrapper a helluva long time in comparison to a lot of builds to get through a standard max diff solo ITF just because that autohit fluffy hurts my scrapper a HELL of a lot more than it does my sr/claws tank who laughs and ignores it.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Bill Z Bubba

[Doomguide2005]

9 minutes ago, UberGuy said:

You should know this is set up for Regen (and to some extent WP) to fail. Regen has the weakest of the three's def/res stats. In that scenario, you must defeat enemies in order to reduce the DPS you face. By ignoring MoG, you deprive Regen of 15 seconds it could spend killing things to reduce what it's up against. By not killing anything, you demand that IH's HP recovery exceed the applied DPS and never do anything to reduce it.

 

That's not how the powerset works. Regen is about burst survival. Winning fights is about getting your foe to zero HP before they can do the same to you, and Regen can buy you enough time to do that quickly, or you lose. Measuring how long you can stand around willy-nilly ignoring your enemies has an element of pure academia about it. That's not how we actually play.

 

And of course it shows that a set with both extreme HP recovery and decent resists can stand around for a long time. (It also shows why Bio is probably going to get a nerf bat in the face eventually.)

This

While it shows some interesting things Regen requires very active player control to do best.  Timing is extremely important and that requires the player actively deciding when to use its reactive clicks and toggles (or not to).  And that's player experience and skill vs the game environment.

[Galaxy Brain]

50 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

Out of curiosity, are the tests on Regen being run against +4 enemies, or against enemies level shifted down to+3?

Lvl 51 enemies as a lvl 50 character on SO's

 

49 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

Which benefits more from purple inspirations - an SR Brute or a Regen Brute?

Which benefits more from Green or Orange or Red or Yellow or Blue? Isn't that SR doesn't need to use as many purples a benefit in of itself?

 

31 minutes ago, UberGuy said:

You should know this is set up for Regen (and to some extent WP) to fail. Regen has the weakest of the three's def/res stats. In that scenario, you must defeat enemies in order to reduce the DPS you face.

I want to address the highlight here.... why is this specifically a special thing for Regen? If a WM/Regen, WM/WP, and WM/Bio brute ran the same content, they would all have roughly (except Bio lol) have the same benefit from War Mace in terms of defeating enemies and getting extra mitgation from Stuns and Knockdowns. So yes, by defeating and using "active" mitigation you would get better performance out of Regen... but so would the other sets. 

 

 

31 minutes ago, UberGuy said:

By ignoring MoG, you deprive Regen of 15 seconds it could spend killing things to reduce what it's up against. By not killing anything, you demand that IH's HP recovery exceed the applied DPS and never do anything to reduce it.

 

That's not how the powerset works. Regen is about burst survival. Winning fights is about getting your foe to zero HP before they can do the same to you, and Regen can buy you enough time to do that quickly, or you lose. Measuring how long you can stand around willy-nilly ignoring your enemies has an element of pure academia about it. That's not how we actually play.

 

I didn't use Strength of Will on WP despite it having less than half the recharge of Instant Healing (even with it's locked recharge, it will still beat IH with 100% rech enh by over 30s), and 50% longer Duration than Instant Healing. Even without that, and with Regen using one of its "godmodes", WP was able to outsurvive it on average. MoG is weird in that it's literally a "moment" of 15s (technically 12 due to the cast time?) where you are basically invincible, but the uptime on it is still kind of atrocious and that is where Regen runs into a lot of trouble vs comparable "Healing" sets. WP is pretty much static as mentioned, and then there is Bio which has it's clicks with 30-45s durations that offer Absorb as burst damage buffers + scale to the threat of enemies around you + have much faster recharges. 

 

This test is meant to isolate the armor themselves as active mitigation would effect all of them roughly equally outside of powers like Parry or something. Even if I was to go all-out, including SoW would skew WP even higher than Regen as these numbers were gotten with Instant Healing, available essentially once a mission? Bio likewise can have it's clicks all active per fight, something Regen cannot boast for it's "big" clicks, instead having to rely on Reconstruction and occasionally Dull Pain which does heal you even when you perma it. 

 

 

How else would we measure how "good" it is compared to other sets though? Specifically it as Regen vs other Armor Sets, given the slotting options (+3% def uniques, LotG, Panacea, etc) + inspirations are free to use by all, leaning on them to say "see, Regen can work!" doesn't mean much to me as for every insp or slot you give Regen, WP can make better use of it. Shadow meld? WP and Bio could technically pick it up too if they wanted. 

 

I guess I am at a loss here for what would even be something measurable in terms of even just Regen vs Willpower, it's "direct competition" thematically and even somewhat mechanically. Ideally, anything you'd give to Regen to say "see, it can use X to win!" is 100% fair game to be mirrored on Willpower too, so unless we are planning on giving Regen a crutch and denying the same to WP I'm not sure where to go with it.

 

Y'all give me the parameters and I'll run the data

 

 

 

 

[UberGuy]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

@UberGuy's ITF run up there is impressive to me just on its face. The low number of faceplants? Also very impressive. But I am curious to know what the actual run time was and how much of that time was spent kiting around waiting for clicks to refresh or gettin out of the thick to avoid faceplants and that curiosity comes from seeing what I was having to do to survive.

I'll certainly concede the obvious - it could have been faster on anything less threatened by the Cims, since it's clear that if you don't have to click or run or wait to heal then you can just plow through everything.

 

I spent about 3 hours on the first 3 missions, then went to bed. (I was, for whatever reason, doing this on a weeknight.) The fourth mission took me another 3 hours. 

 

I know people who can solo the whole TF it in 4 hours, though there's a whole lot of variation by AT and powerset. (Anything with Flight can avoid tons of damage from the Cims proper.) Offhand I can't remember how many, if any of them, were intentionally restricting themselves the way I did. Someone with a more ideal / less fiddly character who also uses everything at their disposal will be the fastest, naturally. To be fair though, I had never tried this on any character before, so some of my slowness was just deciding how to proceed at major junctions, like clearing the puffballs.

 

I don't usually wait around for clicks, though I might pause briefly for a fresh Barrier. (I will not stand around waiting for a fresh one, only pause if it's imminent.) I play these Regen characters a lot, and I know how to manage them fairly well. As such, I don't spend much time running away from things. I tend to avoid inspirations in normal play (on any "finished" character) unless it's painfully obvious I need them to succeed. As a result, I tend to know my break points, and while I obviously sometimes miscalculate (because we all do), knowing my limits well translates to mostly avoiding situations where I have to run away. However, knowing my limits also means picking my fights - no aggroing multiple spawns of Cims if I could help it. (I don't do that with most content on these characters.) I certainly didn't stand around pulling unless I absolutely needed to, but I also was careful to approach things from angles that would not aggro multiple groups. I still sometimes did pull multiples and survived, but clearly playing this way is slower than simply rolling along knowing you can take the heat. And if I wasn't trying to avoid any deaths, I would have pushed the envelope harder.

 

Pretty obviously I did this on a heavily IO'd and fully Incarnate character. I don't think most people who solo this TF do it at +4/x8 without that, though I am sure some could do it on IOs alone. Especially if they let themselves have inspirations.

 

Initially, I started with a very conservative Incarnate "loadout". I had Barrier Core Destiny, Melee Core Hybrid, Spiritual Core Alpha, and Reactive Radial Interface. My Lore was a Core - I usually only take the Radial Lore with the support LT on farmers, for the indestructible aggro source. All this was T4.

 

After playing for a while, I decided I was doing well enough that I did not need to be so conservative, and switched the Hybrid to Assault Core. After finding regular Romulus was a total chicken ****, I tried changing out my Interface to a freshly crafted Degen Core (no DoT), and that did seem to cause less running.  (Nictus Rom was way less of a runner.)  I kept Spiritual Alpha slotted for most of the TF to help get clicks back faster, but once I cleared the puffballs in the end fight, I switched Alpha to Muscular Core. I wasn't going to spend time cycling clicks constantly - I needed to focus on DPS.

 

The actual end fight was long, and it was probably half of that 3 hours. This was for two main reasons. (1) I could not ignore ambushes, and had to peel off of DPSing Nictus Rom to clear them. (2) As you can see in the screenshot, this character has modest E/N defense, so Rom's heal hit regularly. He was also healed once by a Surgeon in one of the ambushes. (They heal a fixed % health, so that was a big setback.) I learned to time popping MoG around when I expected Rom to pop his heal, and had modest success with using that to avoid him hitting with it. I did not use it otherwise unless he hit me. Popping MoG when I was hit served to counteract the -def until it expired and give me time to heal back up. 

 

[UberGuy]

33 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

I want to address the highlight here.... why is this specifically a special thing for Regen?

Isn't it obvious? Because Regen has almost no passive/toggle resist or defense.

 

WP gets both, and Bio beats WP on resists and just general toolsets. Bio is like three way love child of Regen, WP and Invul, with some stuff none of them get.

 

I'm not trying to say there's some test where Regen wins on raw numbers. Not against Bio for sure. There are some burst damage cases I think it can win vs WP, simply because WP has so little reactive capability.

 

Your test produces numbers, and any "hard" numbers "feel" authoritative, but I believe the test you ran shows self-evident things (because no def/res on Regen), and the actual numbers don't reflect anything especially practical, because the situation they measure is unrealistic.

 

A more useful test would be something like what you did for attack powerset performance. Pick a relatively mitigation neutral primary, (Fire Melee?), and compare how well the secondaries do at letting you clear your AE test map. Try not to get killed (much), and see how that impacts time to completion.

 

My guess is that you'll still get the same ranking, but I think WP and Regen will be (even) closer together and Bio will cruise to victory.

[Galaxy Brain]

2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I do have an answer: some folks really enjoy, as they have stated, the high maintenance, high clicky, easy to fail with sets because they get more personal reward out of it. And that is 100% valid.

This 

 

For real, I *love* the IDEA of Regen as a set. Where you have a series of "oh crap" buttons of varying degrees that can technically get you through anything.... however as it is it does not work out that way, at least not on it's own.

 

The idea of "burst survival" is weird in practice as yeah... you can survive bursts on occasion but the way other forms of mitigation work is just way better. 1000 damage coming in? Well, defense means the odds you even have to deal with it are slim, and resistance lets you just tank it as a smaller number. Regen/Healing only lets you live if you can not be defeated by that 1000 in one go / there isn't anything else coming in too. This is where the clicks come in, but their uptimes are too small to be truly reliable if they only come into play every Xth fight while other armors do not need to juggle such resources for similar if not better end results. 

 

If anything, Regen should outperform other armor sets with the caveat that you do have to juggle resources and use active mitigation from your armor set. It just needs some numerical help to get there. Hell, if you slash MoG's values by half it'd still make you practically invincible with it giving 35.62% Def/Res to All (but psy) in one click, with one enhancement putting you within 2% of the soft cap and the resists stacking with Resilience to put you at 50%ish res to all. In return, you can slash the recharge from 240 base to 120 base (60s with normal slotting if not more) and make it a much better "reaction" button. 

 

Likewise, an idea I've tossed around is to turn Reconstruction into a new form of Jaunt/Burst of Speed. Slash the healing value from 25% to like 15%, but then allow you to use it up to 3 times instantly within a certain time window (lets say 10 seconds just like these powers). If you use it 3 times, then it enters cooldown, otherwise if you pace it you can have a relatively large amount of active healing as you rapidly reconstruct yourself. The animation would need to be shaved for sure as you are now activating 3 times in an emergency instead of once, but I always felt that the 50% self heal in one go on even it's base 60s cooldown could be improved. Just spitballing here.

 

Another thing that could be looked at is Revive. Luckily, Regen only has 1 toggle to put back on after using it if you do go down... but with that thing being on a 5min timer it is not really competitive with Wakies or even just hosping unless you are 100% surrounded (odds are you may get smacked down again). Making this a much smoother process where a Regenerator is simply near impossible to keep down could be a cool boon for the set, hell even make it so using it "doesn't count" as defeats for anything that tracks that.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Galaxy Brain

[Werner]

8 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

For real, I *love* the IDEA of Regen as a set. Where you have a series of "oh crap" buttons of varying degrees that can technically get you through anything.... however as it is it does not work out that way, at least not on it's own.

You’ve reminded me how I felt about Regen back in the day. I hated when it was nerfed, but eventually fell in love with what was left. Because what was left was a set where death was almost always my own fault. I could have survived if only I’d played it better. It was like Regen never let me down, I let Regen down, and it left me with a fierce urge to do better, to prove to Regen that I was worthy. And that’s what I want Regen to be. A set that if played perfectly is among the best or even the best, but one that very few can play that well, resulting in middle of the pack performance overall. I doubt I could play it that well anymore if I ever could, but I want to be amazed by the people who can and what they can accomplish. I fear it’s probably a long way from that level of performance, though. 

[Troo]

@Galaxy Brain, Iove you man, however there is some irony in writing "This" but then 'lets go ahead a mess with 3 or 4 things anyway'..

 

Lets monkey with this part and fix that part.. GO BUILD A NEW SET IF YOU WANNA REWORK SOMETHING leave our 'gimped' (because folks aren't sure to play it) set alone.

 

A handful of folks have chimed in with 'it works better than the static numbers say'.

@UberGuy showed a solo'd +4/8 ITF.

I'm here saying Revive & even MOG can be skippable because they are so rarely used.

@America's Angel & others are saying it is actually really good and fun to play.

@Sir Myshkin Has pointed out how not having a Def focused set can actually be very beneficial.

 

Hey look there's Ice Armor begging for some help to keep up with Radiation Armor.

[Werner]

58 minutes ago, UberGuy said:

I know people who can solo the whole TF it in 4 hours, though there's a whole lot of variation by AT and powerset.

I know that some Tankers can do it much faster. I did a 1:28:03 solo +4x8 MoITF enemies buffed no temps no insps no deaths on a Shield/MA Tanker using amplifiers. @Tsuko did the same in 1:29:55 on a Rad/SS Tanker without amplifiers, and @nihiliiin 1:31:37 on an Invuln/DB Tanker with only Tier 3 incarnates, but with amplifiers. But soloing a regular +4x8 ITF on Regen with some restrictions and one death seems very impressive to me, particularly with @Bill Z Bubba having such trouble at lower settings, because I know what he's capable of. I can't remember the difficulty we had it set at, but way back in the old game when we were all much weaker, I was on an all Scrapper ITF, and I took my Katana/Regen Scrapper specifically because I thought it would be the biggest challenge out of my top-end characters. And ho, boy, was it ever. I died over and over. I had fun, mind you, but ouch.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Troo, there's always going to be folks against any change. It's been me in the past, it's you this time.

 

Pretty sure in that tank god thread there was a defender that pulled off a Werner rules ITF. A lot of things CAN be accomplished by any number of players if they just set their mind to it. That's got absolutely nothing to do with powerset balance.

 

Folks' opinions about what's good don't mean much when the data presented showing otherwise just gets ignored.

Folks' opinions about what's fun aren't open for contradiction because we all have different ideas about what that means. I'm fully aware that many find my playstyle of mashing 1-4 on the keyboard to get the job done is boring as hell to others.

[Galaxy Brain]

26 minutes ago, Troo said:

@Galaxy Brain, Iove you man, however there is some irony in writing "This" but then 'lets go ahead a mess with 3 or 4 things anyway'..

 

Lets monkey with this part and fix that part.. GO BUILD A NEW SET IF YOU WANNA REWORK SOMETHING leave our 'gimped' (because folks aren't sure to play it) set alone.

 

 

 

Liking the idea / concept of something but not liking how it plays out are not mutually exclusive. I really like the concept of how Regen works. Its just in practice, that concept does not match what other sets can do without needing all the extra effort which can sour the experience. In the same post you even say to give Ice Armor attention to keep up with Rad, how is that ok to say but touching up Regen isn't? 😛 (also I've posted about Ice before hah)

 

[Troo]

17 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Its just in practice,

..folks keep tellin you it works better than you think. (while admitting it can take some skill to play and should not be expected to compare to all other sets)

 

But much like the scam artist huckster shown in your picture you don't want to hear it.

 

To your question: Ice is actually similar to Radiation. Regeneration is not Bio (which is arguably broken).

 

I'm bowing out of this thread.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Troo

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, Troo said:

..folks keep tellin you it works better than you think. (while admitting it can take some skill to play and should not be expected to compare to all other sets)

 

But much like the scam artist huckster shown in your picture you don't want to hear it.

 

To your question: Ice is actually similar to Radiation. Regeneration is not Bio (which is arguably broken).

 

That's not accurate or fair, Troo. Pretty unnecessarily rude, too.
Again, provide data showing where we're wrong. Not opinions because you're offended at the data being provided.

Show us the regen brute pulling off even a no temps, no insps, solo max diff ITF with 0 deaths. Ignore Werner's enemies buffed or player debuffed settings.

Show us the data where any given primary/regen actually excels above the same primary with a different armor on 5 clear all maps of GB's test mission on beta.

Something. Cuz so far, all you've actually offered up amounts to, well, nothing but "I like it like it is and don't want it changed."

[Galaxy Brain]

5 minutes ago, Troo said:

..folks keep tellin you it works better than you think. (while admitting it can take some skill to play and should not be expected to compare to all other sets)

 

But much like the scam artist huckster shown in your picture you don't want to hear it.

 

To your question: Ice is actually similar to Radiation. Regeneration is not Bio (which is arguably broken).

 

I played an ma/regen scrapper for quite a long time on live, I have exp with the set. I know it can be effective, much like @Bill Z Bubba and @Wernerhave mentioned, anything can be effective as a defender has passed the Warner ITF challenge but both of them, two incredibly skilled melee players, have both come to a similar conclusion about Regen as I have.

 

I know that it can work.

 

I know it can be effective. 

 

I know that many, including myself, find how it works fun.

 

However, this does not cover up that the concept and the mechanics do not match up in a way that they could. Regen's main things as of right now are that it has a few very powerful situational powers unique to it with Instant Healing, Moment of Glory, and I would even argue Revive given it does give you the most intangible time and health/end returned when you bounce back (on paper this is cool but... yeah). Other sets feature equivalents of Dull Pain, Reconstruction, Quick Recovery, even resilience and integration, but none have the combo of all these and 5 purely defensive clicks. Other armors may be busy with click powers, but they are often contributing to offense at the same time either through raw damage or debuffing, and usually have a smaller defensive benefit too. The layers all come together to make the set function over time given these clicks are often up every fight or so.

 

Regen only has Reconstruction that is usually up every fight, and then you can kind of pick your poison each fight between the remaining 4. Dull Pain can be used as an emergency heal, but its main use is to grant more HP and the benefits that brings, often making it something you'd pop before a fight. Revive only works after you've been dropped, which depending on the perspective can already mean you failed and while it does bring you back to near full HP, other revives come with offensive boosts to help turn the tides a bit more. This leaves instant healing which has an atrocious uptime, and as I have shown even with it up, Willpower can passively outcompete it as a whole. Lastly there is MoG which also has an awful uptime, 15s/120s is about 13% of the time, even worse than the 90/333 = 27% uptime of IH. 

 

When everything is working, you have DP up, IH up, and MOG on deck you're amazing! However, that is only good for one fight out of many you face in a mission and alternating between your big clicks means you're lacking options for most of your fights 😞

 

If the options were made more reliable so that your skill could really be put to the test, thatd be one thing. Bit as is, even when you play properly the set is very restrictive on when you can use your tools and how effective they really are which means you gotta use more outside options than other sets.

[Troo]

@Bill Z Bubba

What do you consider rude? Pointing out the irony of the character in the chosen quote ending up being the villain of the movie. Where the promise of better is actually worse.

 

  The regen shown is in little danger in the pictured scenario. But if I skim this thread I'm supposedly gonna die in 12 seconds.

 

What more do you want than experience from folks who have extensively played the set in days of olde and currently?

Numbers to compare apples to oranges aren't super helpful.

 

Maybe Super Reflexes needs to be reworked as it doesn't play the same an Electric Armor and it should because that how I want to play it.

(that would be a ludicrous thing for me to come to your house and say)

 

24 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

If the options were made more reliable so that your skill could really be put to the test, thatd be one thing. Bit as is, even when you play properly the set is very restrictive on when you can use your tools and how effective they really are which means you gotta use more outside options than other sets.

See picture above, that character has basicly zero defense. There is nothing restrictive other than some situational awareness.

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

18 minutes ago, Troo said:

What do you consider rude?

Implying that GB was the villain here with the line, "But much like the scam artist huckster shown in your picture you don't want to hear it." He's not the one suffering from "don't want to hear it."

 

18 minutes ago, Troo said:

What more do you want than experience from folks who have extensively played the set in days of olde and currently?

Numbers to compare apples to oranges aren't super helpful.

We're not comparing apples and oranges. We're comparing melee mitigation sets.

 

18 minutes ago, Troo said:

Maybe Super Reflexes needs to be reworked as it doesn't play the same an Electric Armor and it should because that how I want to play it.

(that would be a ludicrous thing for me to come to your house and say)

1: This ain't your house. It's OUR house.

2: Elec doesn't fold like a wet napkin under duress like regen does. Nice screenshot, but that ain't data. That's you happening to survive at one point in time against what? 5 whole enemies? Woohoo. Edit: My bad, it was only 4.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Bill Z Bubba

[Troo]

7 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Implying that GB was the villain here with the line, "But much like the scam artist huckster shown in your picture you don't want to hear it." He's not the one suffering from "don't want to hear it."

I was pointing out the irony but feel free to keep putting words in my mouth.

 

7 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

That's you happening to survive at one point in time against what? 5 whole enemies? Woohoo.

Yeah buddy, that's the scenario that was put out there (see below). I simply showed what it was said to be weak against. Would you rather see a Regen tanking Hamidon?

On 3/4/2021 at 3:03 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

against what I'd call an "MM" encounter with 3 minions, 2 lt's, and 1 boss.

 

2100 / 186.51 = ~12 seconds in this scenario.

 

7 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

1: This ain't your house. It's OUR house.

If you re-read what I wrote I never claim anything is 'my house' but I can see how the statement got you all triggered.

 

[Werner]

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

have both come to a similar conclusion about Regen as I have.

Take my conclusions with a huge grain of salt. Until last night I'd not played Regen in years, and I'm currently playing my level 11 Katana/Regen Scrapper with friends. I have no current relevant experience. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 minutes ago, Troo said:

I was pointing out the irony but feel free to keep putting words in my mouth.

I quoted you. You put those words in your mouth.

 

4 minutes ago, Troo said:

Yeah buddy, that's the scenario that was put out there (see below). I simply showed what it was said to be weak against. Would you rather see a Regen tanking Hamidon?

Yay, regen excels at less than 1% of available content.

 

5 minutes ago, Troo said:

If you re-read what I wrote I never claim anything is 'my house' but I can see how the statement got you all triggered.

 

45 minutes ago, Troo said:

(that would be a ludicrous thing for me to come to your house and say)

Based on your other failed deflections, we'll all accept this isn't you claiming someone is coming into YOUR house to offer "ludicrous" claims. Sure.

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 minutes ago, Werner said:

Take my conclusions with a huge grain of salt. Until last night I'd not played Regen in years, and I'm currently playing my level 11 Katana/Regen Scrapper with friends. I have no current relevant experience. 

And to also be fair, I was playing mine like I would any other brute expecting, especially with all the buffs I was throwing at it, that it wouldn't be such a chore.

[CaptTastic]

I’m just still trying to get my head around the supposed fact that being able to solo an ITF on maximum difficulty settings, the ease with which it’s possible, and the consistency with the theoretical data, is the new criteria for ‘playable’.

 

I feel like we may have, somewhere along the line, lost sight of the soul of this game among an ever-thickening fog of spreadsheets. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by CaptTastic

[Troo]

12 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Yay, regen excels at less than 1% of available content.

It doesn't matter what folks show, it seems you're gonna move the goals posts. Apples and oranges.

Regen is good at 99% of the game. Some folks just look at it through 1% lenses.

 

 

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

9 minutes ago, CaptTastic said:

I’m just still trying to get my head around the supposed fact that being able to solo an ITF on maximum difficulty settings, the ease with which it’s possible, and the consistency with the theoretical data, is the new criteria for ‘playable’.

 

I feel like we may have, somewhere along the line, lost sight of the soul of this game among an ever-thickening fog of spreadsheets. 

Because there's two completely separate paradigms at work.

 

It doesn't have to be the ITF or the MLTF or anything else. It only has to be consistent. It only has to be testable.

 

We have already fully conceded that none of this is based on "fun." If you like regen, play it. But arguing that it's some wonderful thing when actual data is showing that belief to be a lie is a nonstarter.

[Werner]

2 hours ago, CaptTastic said:

I’m just still trying to get my head around the supposed fact that being able to solo an ITF on maximum difficulty settings, the ease with which it’s possible, and the consistency with the theoretical data, is the new criteria for ‘playable’.

My own belief is more like "Regen is one of the weaker armor sets, potentially weakest." And without relevant experience, I can't back up that belief. It's definitely playable.

 

Edit: weaker in the endgame with incarnate powers and IOs... I don’t much think about power levels while leveling, making my opinions even less relevant. And the original post seemed at least as much about fun as it was about relative power levels. It can definitely be fun if that’s a style of play you like. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Werner