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Discussion: Improvements to the Warriors


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22 hours ago, Crasical said:

Also, something I just found in game: The Envoy of Shadows arc starts with the Warriors stealing a demonic tome from the Circle of Thorns, and accidentally unleashing something they can't control.

Warriors are not great mages; and they DO canonically loot stuff from the CoT.

 

Another thing to consider is the "Crown of Glory" arc, which literally says there is a Warrior Civil War (Mercedes Sheldon's third hero arc).

 

Not that I want yet another Civil War, but there is groundwork already set for it.

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After making a deal with a demon prince, David Odysseus Hill formed one of the most powerful gang forces in Paragon City. In fact, he now leads the coalition of gangs known as Smuggler's Run. All of the Warriors gain power by drinking from an ancient mystical urn given to Odysseus by the demon. It is whispered around Paragon City that the urn is connected to the Well of the Furies. With his own highly trained fighting force adding the muscle provided by the Hellions and Outcasts, this group is a threat to take over all gang activity in Paragon City.

 

I always liked the idea that the urn requires fuel to work. So Odysseus actually hunts for artifacts to place into the urn and convert the magic of the artifact into liquid that powers the Warriors. Only specific kinds of artifacts work, so Odysseus gathers as many as he can to find ones that work and the rest he hoards or sells to the highest bidder.

 

Lately, Odysseus has found that the thorns from CoT possessed civilians is great fuel for the urn as well as the tattoo flesh of the Tsoo. So he has begun to hunt down CoT and Tsoo for bodies to dump into the urn to continue to power his warriors.

 

The twist would be that unknown to Odysseus, the demon prince takes a share of the power from the urn every time he uses it to make more liquid for his warriors. As the Warriors begin to hunt down the CoT and Tsoo, the demon gets supercharged by all the new power flowing through the urn. Odysseus figures out the demon is connected and cons players into finding a way to sever the connection of the urn to the demon. This would allow Odysseus full access to all the power the urn has to offer and that would result in even stronger Warriors once they drink. This would be a way to bring about Incarnate powered Warriors.

 

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On 3/17/2021 at 4:46 PM, wjrasmussen said:

Well, if we go by West Side Story, the warriors would be dancing and singing their way across Talos Island!  Would it be an improvement?  I think you'd have hard time making that case.

 

Those are Sharks and Jets. Wrong movie. But that would be very funny.

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What about Dual Blades? I ready through this entire thread and I do not think I saw this (apologies if I missed it).

 

As for reskinning the existing weapons, I would suggest simple items for minions (baseball bats, pipe wrenches, crude machetes), with lieutenants getting the normal axe, mace, sword and the bosses getting Impervium based stylized weaponry. Seems logical to me. Get better weapons, move up in the gang.

 

I do like the javelin throw ability. Seems appropriate.

 

Archer units would not be bad either.

 

And lastly, I think both the Thugs Gang War thing or else a Hound Master type unit with pet dogs (or lions) would fit nicely.

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Having just spent over an hour in the Atta Trolls map, beating up Warriors, I can definitely say that it is currently very hard to tell the difference between the minions, bosses, and LTs. There seems to be almost a random amount of hand crossbows, large (two handed) crossbows, and longbows used for ranged attacks, and they have very limited AoE, aside from Whirling (axe, mace, sword) but that is only a PBAoE. I'm not even sure they have the cone attacks, though they do seem to have the T9 weapon attack.

 

There is a ton of behind the scenes lore though, as almost all of the 'named' bosses relate to Greek history in some way (I think I've arrested 3 different Hercules, and at least that many Achilles..) it would be really neat if some of the 'main' Greek history names were more than just normal Warrior Bosses. It seems like they should have more to them, but that could just be me, and the fact I've been bashing Warriors in for the last hour or more.

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10 hours ago, Turric said:

As for reskinning the existing weapons, I would suggest simple items for minions (baseball bats

 

Baseball Furies are a different gang with much cooler costumes

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1 hour ago, RMS33 said:

But making Javelins the signature Warrior weapon is an elegant solution that might need much less new code. Could help keep the melee centered quality of the Warriors intact while by adding the range threat in a more subdued form. Might also provide the foundation for a spear/javelin weapon set someday.

 

I would also like the see Javelins, especially if the Warriors get Staff Fighting (read Spear Melee...) and standardizing the ranged attacks to be different javelins would make the group seem more coalesced and less hodgepodge. Giving them the Lts the wide cones, and leaving the T9s to the Bosses seems a good thing too, or even just giving them the Divine Avalanche clone across the various powersets, so they can maybe stack some +def, and that power is meant to act as a 'Parry' (its literally called 'Parry' for broad Sword..) anyways, so it makes sense. Staff Fighting even gets one, though it is a cone attack.

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I have a feeling I may have already said this, so I apologize if I did, but . . . I'd like to see the Trick Arrow Powers deployed from Pilums for these Neo Warriors.  Imagine a Rain of Arrows, but it's just a big handful of javelins!  Or Acid Arrow being lobbed instead of plucked.

 

And really . . . crossbows are cheating!  Warriors shouldn't be using crossbows at all.  They should demonstrate their physical prowess with traditional bows and arrows!   *grumps*   (Not a serious complaint, but . . . sorta-kinda-maybe a little serious.  Maybe.)

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There's a new* contact in Steel Canyon by the name of Graham Easton, whom you help reclaiming a dubiously acquired relic from the Tsoo.

 

I could see him showing up again as either an accomplice to, or member - former or active - of,  the Warriors.

 

Could even be tied to whichever badge you get from dealing with the boss in his arc.

Killed the boss? Graham could ask for your help against the Tsoo again.

Spared the boss? The Tsoo might approach you to deal with the Warriors.

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1 hour ago, TemporalVileTerror said:

And really . . . crossbows are cheating!  Warriors shouldn't be using crossbows at all.  They should demonstrate their physical prowess with traditional bows and arrows!  


Crossbows take considerable physical prowess as well.  (Especially the kind drawn manually.)

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Over the course of this week, I will be combing this thread to collect the best ideas that align with the plots-you-don't-know-about-and-future-stuff, closing this thread, opening a new thread with the theorycraft updates, and beginning the discussion anew under the new directions we're taking.

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"Science. Science, my friend, requires radical gambles and adventures in malpractice sometimes. Take solace in the fact that I tested the majority of these things on the dead, the re-dead, and the nearly departed before I went to live trials.

 

Honestly, most of my "specimens" were several iterations past being considered a human being with their original fingerprints, teeth, or IDs. So it was rather a lot like experimenting on moaning clay putty."

 


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"Science. Science, my friend, requires radical gambles and adventures in malpractice sometimes. Take solace in the fact that I tested the majority of these things on the dead, the re-dead, and the nearly departed before I went to live trials.

 

Honestly, most of my "specimens" were several iterations past being considered a human being with their original fingerprints, teeth, or IDs. So it was rather a lot like experimenting on moaning clay putty."

 


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I made an AE with my own version of the Warriors so I could squeeze them into level 50 content. Here's a few of them I used;

(there are plenty more, but all of them were the same as you see here with different color schemes, faces, skin tones and hairstyles.)

 

image.thumb.png.3707bc4dcf7f22b7c64c361c15bed482.pngimage.thumb.png.1e574b7d572e9a65ffb9a5314ea47049.pngimage.thumb.png.88575bf5a9c25cbe942e5f5cb61fd144.png

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Naturally, I wanted to keep the base design of the faction in-tact, but also apply more Cimeroran/Valkyrie themed items in order to give them a more intimidating look. Ideally, being able to put the Cimeroran/Valkyrie chest pieces under jackets would be perfect for something like this too! (as well as players too, hint hint)

 

As for their powersets? I tried to make it so that they still had that authentic 'Warriors' style to them. I kept the basic hand-to-hand powers for minions by using Martial Arts, Street Justice and Super Strength. Ideally I'd swap Super Strength for the Fighting pool attacks, and maybe add a ranged unit that uses a hand crossbow.

 

Lieutenants made use of some more rudimentary weapons such as Bows, Broad Swords, Battle Axes and War Maces. I also had 'Houndmasters' who used Beast Mastery to summon wolves, not too sure if that's something that fits exactly, but I thought it was a fun idea to toy with. In tandem to this, I had 'Falconers', who exclusively used both versions of 'Call Hawk' (Beast Mastery/Savage Assault) to harass enemies from afar. Maybe a unit that uses a crossbow could also give a little more ranged variety.

 

As for the bosses, I decided to give them intermediate weapons such as Titan Weapons, Staff Fighting, Dual Blades, Weapon & Shield, and Trick Arrow. Like the Houndmaster, I also had a Lionmaster that served as a similar unit, summoning lions instead.

 

I did also throw in a handful of 'support' style units that used powers from Pain Domination and Sonic Resonance to give it a sort of Leadership/Tactics feel to it, but ideally using something similar to the Leadership Pool or powers Cimeroran troops possess would be great. I also put in a defensive Shield unit with Grant Cover to make for a support-type mob that could only use Throwing Knives and Parry. I did originally have a 'medic' character that used Alkaloid and Antidote, as well as some of Poison's debuff powers too, but I'm not sure if that fits into the theme too well.

 

On that note, Javelins! Javelins would be awesome for the Warriors, as well as some more gladiator style abilities like throwing Nets, Bolas, and perhaps even borrowing powers like Throw Sand or Caltrops, maybe even a few with Firebombs and Grenades. There's a lot of things like this that I couldn't quite accomplish in AE (as well as having a 'sniper' mob type that uses archery powers).

 

Edited by Tyrannical
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here's a few unused ideas I had for special bosses and contacts down the line;

 

image.thumb.png.28493e5959cbbe1b2fd378c8217b1e4e.pngimage.thumb.png.4f04ab8222cd9bfae011889c5f8b41d9.pngimage.thumb.png.a149219216468c203472089dc7f0629f.png

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(ps. I know a lot of my designs aren't strictly 'Greek', but since Odysseus brings that Roman element to the gang (if the Legionnaire badge wasn't enough), I figured I'd lean into it. Besides, Cimerora is based on multiple Mediterranean warrior cultures, so I figured I'd draw inspiration from that too).

 

Edited by Tyrannical
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As of this moment I feel round 1 has enough to work with. I will begin the delve into your suggestions and I will be back Soon(tm) with updates!

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"Science. Science, my friend, requires radical gambles and adventures in malpractice sometimes. Take solace in the fact that I tested the majority of these things on the dead, the re-dead, and the nearly departed before I went to live trials.

 

Honestly, most of my "specimens" were several iterations past being considered a human being with their original fingerprints, teeth, or IDs. So it was rather a lot like experimenting on moaning clay putty."

 


Got time to spare? Want to see Homecoming thrive? Consider volunteering as a Game Master! For science and community!

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  • 4 weeks later
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Though this page is still locked, you may have seen a preview on the Anniversary post of a few Warriors sneaking out for a rooftop break.

 

I am still hard at work diversifying the first pass of choices, then I will be opening up a new thread for discussion.

Feel free to leave reaction emojis to this post in the meantime:

Like: Not bad so far

Confused: Something's not right

Sad: I dislike something I saw.

screenshot_210422-22-36-29_12.thumb.jpg.b10f3fca0602c2286d925f072e52c62b.jpg

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"Science. Science, my friend, requires radical gambles and adventures in malpractice sometimes. Take solace in the fact that I tested the majority of these things on the dead, the re-dead, and the nearly departed before I went to live trials.

 

Honestly, most of my "specimens" were several iterations past being considered a human being with their original fingerprints, teeth, or IDs. So it was rather a lot like experimenting on moaning clay putty."

 


Got time to spare? Want to see Homecoming thrive? Consider volunteering as a Game Master! For science and community!

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Greetings once again, specimens!

 

I was politely reminded by @Arbegla (Take your backwards math and get out!) that it's been quite a while since I checked in to let you know what's happening with the Warriors.

 

I've fielded a lot of feedback and it's steered my design decisions towards reverence of the original designs while still expanding the overall feel of the group.

 

Page3's development put a serious hiatus on this work. @Jimmy warned me about making promises so I never explicitly set a timeline on the completion of the work. Much to the frustration of many, I try to make sure my work is as good as it can be before it's released.

 

That being said, the work behind the scenes has been largely updating and diversifying outfits; studying, expanding, and closing off lore threads; choosing new weapons and powers for the units; developing challenging additions to the group for players to face; and texture work. LOTS AND LOTS of texture work. Faces, shirts, tattoos, etc.

 

What I can say for sure:

Powers included in the revamp will include swords, maces, axes, brawling, bows, crossbows, throwing knives, and staves. Plot hooks involving the Warriors in development all tie in to deep plot threads carrying us all the way to The Next Big Bad Doombringers, and that some work from this summer has been developed into a full feature coming with Page 3.

 

So, fear not! I will continue to tease your aching hearts until the day of blissful deliverance is at hand!

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"Science. Science, my friend, requires radical gambles and adventures in malpractice sometimes. Take solace in the fact that I tested the majority of these things on the dead, the re-dead, and the nearly departed before I went to live trials.

 

Honestly, most of my "specimens" were several iterations past being considered a human being with their original fingerprints, teeth, or IDs. So it was rather a lot like experimenting on moaning clay putty."

 


Got time to spare? Want to see Homecoming thrive? Consider volunteering as a Game Master! For science and community!

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On 9/7/2021 at 12:14 PM, Piecemeal said:

Greetings once again, specimens!

I was politely reminded by @Arbegla (Take your backwards math and get out!) that it's been quite a while since I checked in to let you know what's happening with the Warriors.

 

I needed this laugh more than I realized. So I definitely appreciate reminding you about the Warriors, and getting the update.

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Just read though the whole Thread (more or less) and had ideas to add/prob/suggest.

 

The Greek have a concept of "Arete" or "Excellence" which ties very much into constantly striving for better (perfection isn't a thing to be obtained, it is to be strived for) it would also be where my mind takes me for them going into Incarnate threats (Maybe) a small portion of them finding/tapping into that "Excellence" of eternity/power and running with it. Could probably be a power of some type.

 

More power types/weapons is always a good way of diversifying them and adding Female members is a good idea, although I'd say they probably be much more likely to be higher up members, since women competing with men in the field of combat makes them a lot tougher and "Meaner" and it's harder for them to reach the same "Strength", which would mean they'd tap into the "superpower" side of things quicker IMO.

 

As to them Recruiting... I can see them getting members Red side from several of the impoverished groups... say the Scrapyarders and dockworkers. Maybe even the Luddites, if they tap into the ideas of "Getting strong enough to Defend yourself", Maybe a couple of them show up and get the process started and that's where the Red side come in, wanting to stop the various groups from getting a fair shot at things and bringing themselves into conflict with the Warriors.

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Some really good suggestions here.

 

One thing I would like to see is for the Warriors to own their space.  Much like the Tsoo, Carnival of Shadows, Frakshow, or the Skulls; give the Warrior's hideouts some flair and personality. Graffiti on the walls, racks of weapons, a bar area. You don't need to make new assets, just add some assets to the existing maps.

 

They deserve better than generic, nondescript warehouses.

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