Focused Feedback: Power Changes (Release Candidates)

[HelBlaiz]

A pull effect sounds like a fun new mechanic, looking forward to seeing it in more powers.

 

Come to me, my little chunks of xp.

[ScarySai]

Right, so from my initial testing, two concerns.

 

1: My gravity character is /storm, so this hurts it more than it likely would for other secondaries, but if my singy doesn't charge in and only hangs out at range, he actively pulls things out of my storm killzones. I can wormhole on singularity, which solves the problem altogether, but the problem with that is I mostly solo higher difficulties, so that leaves bosses behind. Wormhole also randomly decides to just not move anything at all, despite connecting.

 

Proposed solution: Allow singy to be given commands, or reduce his CD so he can be remotely placed more often.

 

2: The pull-in tends to ninja pull things I'm a fair distance from, a SLIGHT reduction in range should help a bit. This might also help a bit with the first issue above.

Edited March 28, 2021 by ScarySai
Added detail to point # 1

[WindDemon21]

•  Gravity Control > Singularity

  • Singularity will now slowly pull enemies towards it, allowing it to make much greater use of the Repel effect

So this is great, but I thought this mechanic wasn't possible with the current code. If it is, then they really ought to replace dimension shift with an inverse bonfire power that draws the enemies to the center and call it gravity sink. It's definitely a power that gravity IMO has needed for a while and would be PERFECT.

[ScarySai]

I like dimension shift after the rework, black hole - however...

 

🙂

[Keleko]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

 Gravity Control > Singularity

• Singularity will now slowly pull enemies towards it, allowing it to make much greater use of the Repel effect

You maniacs made the strongest pet even stronger. I approve.

 

You can't buy me off from criticizing the rune change that easily though, Powerhouse! *shakes fist*

After testing on beta, I like this. I also think it should either have a way to turn it off. If not, then I recommend it be removed. In a team situation grouping up mobs this will piss off other players. They’ll tell me to unsummon my pet or I’m kicked. Not having my pet is not at all fun. As cool as it is, we can’t control it, and it will pull apart mob groups that the tank has gathered. I foresee a lot of grief from other players teamed with a grav controller or dominator as it is now. 

[ScarySai]

7 minutes ago, Keleko said:

After testing on beta, I like this. I also think it should either have a way to turn it off. If not, then I recommend it be removed.

I don't agree at all, I think if the range took a slight reduction it would be fine. It gathers things up for the team to destroy, that's incredibly useful, and not annoying like say, mass knock back or improperly used phased shifts.

[Carnifax]

Just tried this with my Grav/TA. It's a cool effect in the wrong place. I don't really want Singy to pull things out of my carefully assembled / Wormhole-stacked mob. Even with a KB2KD in him its still too disruptive (I don't want him slowly peeling mobs off some Willpower Tank or Brute). Now if you were to put it into a targeted placeable static pseudopet of some sort then hell yes. Sadly Grav doesn't really have anything appropriate (well Dim Shift, but Ew)

 

Although.... could it be moved from Singy to a pseudopet spawned at your Gravity Distortion Field. That'd be amazing. Or Crushing Field. Imagine an AOE Immob Tanks don't hate. 

 

Edit : I've also tried it with KB2KD Singy Summoning. It's... fine. If you like earbleeding looped repel noises (I don't which is why I dropped Repel from my Kin build too). 

 

Like I said it's a really cool effect, but in the wrong place, 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Carnifax

[ScarySai]

Clarion already provides full-time mez protection if you go core. It's a weak argument.

[Number Six]

2 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

So this is great, but I thought this mechanic wasn't possible with the current code.

 

The current code is quite different than the original code. There are a lot of things that are possible now that didn't used to be.

[SwitchFade]

1 minute ago, Number Six said:

 

The current code is quite different than the original code. There are a lot of things that are possible now that didn't used to be.

Squeeee.

 

Tell us more 🤪

[macskull]

2 hours ago, Keleko said:

After testing on beta, I like this. I also think it should either have a way to turn it off. If not, then I recommend it be removed. In a team situation grouping up mobs this will piss off other players. They’ll tell me to unsummon my pet or I’m kicked. Not having my pet is not at all fun. As cool as it is, we can’t control it, and it will pull apart mob groups that the tank has gathered. I foresee a lot of grief from other players teamed with a grav controller or dominator as it is now. 

I'm not entirely sure I follow your argument: you're saying a team that's trying to group up mobs is going to get pissed off by a power that groups up mobs? It seems to me the correct response to this situation by any melee character who wasn't running around with their pants on their head would be to simply... go to the Singularity and let the mobs come to them.

[GM Tock]

Please stay on-topic, thanks.

[Carnifax]

20 minutes ago, macskull said:

I'm not entirely sure I follow your argument: you're saying a team that's trying to group up mobs is going to get pissed off by a power that groups up mobs? It seems to me the correct response to this situation by any melee character who wasn't running around with their pants on their head would be to simply... go to the Singularity and let the mobs come to them.

And when they get there and the mobs are flung away by repel?

 

This singy doesn't just gather, he gathers and then sends them flying. 

[Haijinx]

4 hours ago, HelBlaiz said:

A pull effect sounds like a fun new mechanic, looking forward to seeing it in more powers.

 

Come to me, my little chunks of xp.

Gravity Tanker primary perhaps?

[Sovera]

14 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Gravity Tanker primary perhaps?

10x yes.

[HelBlaiz]

That would be neat, Haijinx but I was thinking as power tweaks for an eventual melee support AT. Imagine a Storm/Mace character whose Hurricane draws enemies in instead of blowing them away.

Edited March 28, 2021 by HelBlaiz
autocorrect

[medieval]

If ya'll are going to be changing grav control can you make boss rank creatures have lower mag teleport protection for wormhole or have wormhole having a higher mag to go through said protection? It's kind of lame that the premier power of the spec doesn't affect them at all. 

Edited March 28, 2021 by medieval

[SuperPlyx]

5 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

Gravity Control > Singularity

• Singularity will now slowly pull enemies towards it, allowing it to make much greater use of the Repel effect

 

Just tried this on my Dom, and it worked great I really like this change. Of course I have slotted to avoid the knockback.

[Decaying Rose]

On 3/20/2021 at 10:54 AM, GM Arcanum said:

Demon Summoning

•  Summon Demonlings
  • Cast time reduced from 4s to 2s
•  Summon Demons
  • Cast time reduced from 4s to 2s
•  Hell on Earth
  • Cast time reduced from 4.03s to 2.03s
•  Summon Demon Prince
  • Cast time reduced from 4s to 2s

 

Would it be possible to also cut down on the animation times for the summon powers in Mercenaries?  That radio really takes a long time.

[Tater Todd]

I cannot express how much I love the Singy change but I can also understand why some want the pull ability something that you can control.  Personally, I wouldn't mind either way but I would be beyond heartbroken if this is removed but I would understand.  So far I've been using Wormhole and Fold Space to tp baddies right on top of singy to keep them pulled in.  I also love the fact that the pull strength inscreases when mobs are 8 - 10 ft away.  I'm going to do more testing but so far I'm a definite fan of this change.

[esotericist]

7 hours ago, Decaying Rose said:

 

Would it be possible to also cut down on the animation times for the summon powers in Mercenaries?  That radio really takes a long time.

 

it was already 2.03s for all three summons.

 

edit: like, i'm all for buffing mercs whenever reasonable, but this is actually not a place where mercs are worse off than the other MM primaries.

Edited March 29, 2021 by esotericist
elaborating

[RageusQuitus2]

On 3/22/2021 at 1:49 PM, Glacier Peak said:

You don't need to be convinced. This is a thread to test the changes and provide feedback. 

 

My feedback Is the proposed change to rop is a bad idea.  Takes some fun out of the game for many players.  And makes little sense when compared to the strength of some pool powers like hasten. 

 

Clearly some players are confused about why the change.  They are asking questions and looking for answers.  I think the devs should see some dont like this change and why.

[Lex Talion]

Most of the changes leave me indifferent. Fine if they come, just as fine if they don't. I find myself playing less and hardly ever logging in to the boards anymore, mostly because I found the last Page disheartening. But a couple of things really irk me and I start questioning whether the people that come up with these ideas are actually still playing the game or just managing it. On casual gameplay, or in a buddy team, these points may look unimportant, but if you're a soloing squishy they become vital and potentially decisive.

 

 

On 3/20/2021 at 4:54 PM, GM Arcanum said:

Assault Rifle & Mercenaries

•  Full Auto (All Versions, including Henchmen)
  • Cast Time reduced from 4s (or 6s) to 2.5s (Mercenary Commando actually took a whopping 6s before!)

 

I have plenty of AR toons and Full Auto's cast time hardly ever bothered or hampered me. Is it nice to have it shortened? Certainly, but that doesn't help with the true offender in that power - the number of targets. All the improvements to other blast T9s and Judgement powers (yuck), lack of Aim and the narrow cone width (which IS fine in my book) are more than enough to justify changing it to 16, cone or not. Full Auto is THE iconic AR power, and AR is punished enough with its damage type and Archery as direct competitor already.

 

 

On 3/20/2021 at 4:54 PM, GM Arcanum said:

Other Powers Changes

 

•   Snipe Powers
  • Fast (in-combat) snipes have had their ranges normalized to 80ft (and 100ft for Psi)
    • Slow snipes are unaffected and retain their increased range

 

This is a completely unnecessary nerf to all blasting squishies. I can start a fight from maximum snipe range but I can't continue it? What's the point? Snipes are one option to plan and/or control the flow of battle for squishies. Finally blast users aren't automatically outranged anymore and that is so terrribly gamebreaking that it has to be nerfed? 100 ft would be the bare minimum for fast snipes, so the range buff gets them back to 150' when, or IF, the initial snipe hits. It took a decade til Snipes finally became useful, reliable and satisfying, and there's absolutely no reason to nerf them for squishies.  (Well, at least AR users could keep attacking with Slug after the initial attack. The irony.)

 

Seriously, please stop 'normalizing' stuff just for the sake of it. Balancing means to equilibrate things, not to hammer everything into the same homogenous shape with total disregard to its distinct characteristics or use. That doesn't balance things, it just makes them boring at best and useless at worst.

 

 

On 3/20/2021 at 4:54 PM, GM Arcanum said:

•  Sorcery > Rune of Protection
  • Duration reduced from 90s to 60s
  • This power now grants damage resistance even if you use it whilst mezzed (previously only the mez resistance component would be granted)

 

Same as snipe changes: this does nothing to reestablish game balance on any level and hurts build options for squishies across the board. At two prerequisites and a steep requirement to global recharge the power does not come cheap, but the Melee Core/Rune of Protection combo is the ONLY build alternative to the lackluster Clarion Destiny, which in addition is no use when exemplaring. ATs without mez protection from their sets are already very restricted in their build choices, requiring much more power and slot investment to fortify against high level content than ATs that have access to it. Especially blasters literally become more surviable the more set powers they skip in favor of pool powers.

What RoP in its current state does is at least allowing squishies to maintain their basic functionality, which actually should be a given, without relying on outside means like Break Frees or amplifiers. If you want to normalize Rune of Protection buff the other powers, instead of nerfing RoP. Who knows, maybe they eventually become useful and new options, instead of nice choices and mule powers. THAT is something I would be looking forward to.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Lex Talion

[Glacier Peak]

5 minutes ago, Lex Talion said:

Most of the changes leave me indifferent. Fine if they come, just as fine if they don't. I find myself playing less and hardly ever logging in to the boards anymore, mostly because I found the last Page disheartening. But a couple of things really irk me and I start questioning whether the people that come up with these ideas are actually still playing the game or just managing it. On casual gameplay, or in a buddy team, these points may look unimportant, but if you're a soloing squishy they become vital and potentially decisive.

 

 

 

I have plenty of AR toons and Full Auto's cast time hardly ever bothered or hampered me. Is it nice to have it shortened? Certainly, but that doesn't help with the true offender in that power - the number of targets. All the improvements to other blast T9s and Judgement powers (yuck), lack of Aim and the narrow cone width (which IS fine in my book) are more than enough to justify changing it to 16, cone or not. Full Auto is THE iconic AR power, and AR is punished enough with its damage type and Archery as direct competitor already.

 

 

 

This is a completely unnecessary nerf to all blasting squishies. I can start a fight from maximum snipe range but I can't continue it? What's the point? Snipes are one option to plan and/or control the flow of battle for squishies. Finally blast users aren't automatically outranged anymore and that is so terrribly gamebreaking that it has to be nerfed? 100 ft would be the bare minimum for fast snipes, so the range buff gets them back to 150' when, or IF, the initial snipe hits. It took a decade til Snipes finally became useful, reliable and satisfying, and there's absolutely no reason to nerf them for squishies.  (Well, at least AR users could keep attacking with Slug after the initial attack. The irony.)

 

Seriously, please stop 'normalizing' stuff just for the sake of it. Balancing means to equilibrate things, not to hammer everything into the same homogenous shape with total disregard to its distinct characteristics or use. That doesn't balance things, it just makes them boring at best and useless at worst.

 

 

 

Same as snipe changes: this does nothing to reestablish game balance on any level and hurts build options for squishies across the board. At two prerequisites and a steep requirement to global recharge the power does not come cheap, but the Melee Core/Rune of Protection combo is the ONLY build alternative to the lackluster Clarion Destiny, which in addition is no use when exemplaring. ATs without mez protection from their sets are already very restricted in their build choices, requiring much more power and slot investment to fortify against high level content than ATs that have access to it. Especially blasters literally become more surviable the more set powers they skip in favor of pool powers.

What RoP in its current state does is at least allowing squishies to maintain their basic functionality, which actually should be a given, without relying on outside means like Break Frees or amplifiers. If you want to normalize Rune of Protection buff the other powers, instead of nerfing RoP. Who knows, maybe they eventually become useful and new options, instead of nice choices and mule powers. THAT is something I would be looking forward to.

 

 

 

New build 3 went to beta this weekend. 

[Coyote]

29 minutes ago, Lex Talion said:

What RoP in its current state does is at least allowing squishies to maintain their basic functionality, which actually should be a given, without relying on outside means

 

I would consider the idea that squishies get mezzed to be an inherent part of their basic functionality. There are ways to get around it and powersets that can handle it, but in general, squishies get mezzed and have to deal with it or plan on how to avoid it, not build so that they don't have to deal with it any more.

 

I'm kind of on both sides of the argument for RoP... it's clearly an outlier for the kind of power that it is, and better than the T9s from armor sets. And usually outliers get either buffed or nerfed, depending on which side of the balance they are on. But in this case, considering how bad the metric is (armor T9s are generally terrible), I have to at least consider that maybe RoP is of the right strength, and the powers that are compared to it should be buffed instead.

 

However, the argument that squishies should have a good way around being mezzed is not a winning argument for me. The non-armored characters have had to worry about being mezzed since Issue 1.