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Focused Feedback: Travel Power Updates (Build 3)


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24 minutes ago, Jacke said:

How about the impact on Super Speed when used in indoor maps for stealth?  If it's not enhanced, is it still controllable?

Great question! In order to set up an effective test in an indoor mission map using Super Speed as stealth both enhanced and unenhanced, how would you define the term "controllable"? And to add on to this question, I would like to note that Super Speed provides a pop-up power called 'Speed Phase', which costs 0.67/s endurance and allows a player to move intangibly through targetable objects like enemies, thus eliminating the need for a player to maneuver around mob spawns. Given the fact that the speed cap has increased for all travel powers, would you include the use of this toggle? Would you use it in conjunction with Super Jump or Fly?

 

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2 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Great question! In order to set up an effective test in an indoor mission map using Super Speed as stealth both enhanced and unenhanced, how would you define the term "controllable"? And to add on to this question, I would like to note that Super Speed provides a pop-up power called 'Speed Phase', which costs 0.67/s endurance and allows a player to move intangibly through targetable objects like enemies, thus eliminating the need for a player to maneuver around mob spawns.

 

I use stealth (though rarely Super Speed stealth) a lot to move through maps.  I've often found the map themselves to be the major obstruction, not the mobs.  I don't thin Speed Phase will help there.

 

I think the worse cases would be the various procedurally generated cave maps, especially the older ones (hello, Layer Cake Room, we meet again 😞 ) and the more recent Mot caves.  Would need a standard set of them as well as some of the building maps.  Then have time trial races from points A to B in each map.  Times and qualitative feedback from those running them.  How to set that up, I don't know how.

 

I have found that when the run speed gets high enough, it can be a bit awkward getting through maps, to the point where excess speed wouldn't really help except on the rare clear straight passage.

 

It's too bad there's no way to adjust top speed of motion besides using multiple powers of different speeds and adding and removing Sprint, etc.

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1 hour ago, Jacke said:

 

I use stealth (though rarely Super Speed stealth) a lot to move through maps.  I've often found the map themselves to be the major obstruction, not the mobs.  I don't thin Speed Phase will help there.

 

I think the worse cases would be the various procedurally generated cave maps, especially the older ones (hello, Layer Cake Room, we meet again 😞 ) and the more recent Mot caves.  Would need a standard set of them as well as some of the building maps.  Then have time trial races from points A to B in each map.  Times and qualitative feedback from those running them.  How to set that up, I don't know how.

 

I have found that when the run speed gets high enough, it can be a bit awkward getting through maps, to the point where excess speed wouldn't really help except on the rare clear straight passage.

 

It's too bad there's no way to adjust top speed of motion besides using multiple powers of different speeds and adding and removing Sprint, etc.

Tbh If I did take SS I would not use it inside most maps. Athletic Run would be good enough for mobility between enemies. That said I would do the same with SJ. Or teleport. And in all three cases I'd keep a flight pack to navigate cake rooms.

 

CoT caves are the worse to navigate at any given time but trying to speed or, heaven forbid, -bounce- inside them is headache inducing.

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On 4/3/2021 at 3:04 PM, Zepp said:

Another issue is that Evasive Maneuvers now gives Flight an unprecedented amount of non-suppressed movement, whereas ground-based toons do not have an equivalent ability.

 

Slot Sprint.

 

Not even kidding - that will get you decent in-combat run speed.

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2 hours ago, Jacke said:

How about the impact on Super Speed when used in indoor maps for stealth?  If it's not enhanced, is it still controllable?

Base speed on all the travel powers hasn't changed, only their maximum potential, so if you don't slot them then you won't go any faster. Basically you'll be able to enhance it to the speed you like.

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13 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

I just want to stress again that my analysis was conducted in extreme and outlier situations. This context is very important when referencing the data I collected. As for how I interpreted the data, I made that conclusion based on my testing of extreme and outlier situations - if you have data that adds to or contradicts my findings, I would (and I am sure the rest of the testing community) be appreciative if you shared it. 

 

Lastly, if you have data that you collected through testing that supports your conclusion, that "even if travel is 'trivial' in the game it is not a reason to maintain the level of disparity between travel speeds," I would be glad to review it as well. It would promote informed discussion for the testing community and add to feedback based on actual testing. 

 

Well, seeing as your non-Grandville numbers are producing speeds roughly equal to the cap disparities (SJ Cap 84.3%, PI 85.4%, NA 84.3%) (Fly Cap 73.1%, PI 74.5,% NA 73.8%) (AB 77.1-92.72%, PI 81.2%, NA 79%) I don't think that further testing is justified. You are likely to see a, percentage-wise, similar disparity between the powers on most maps.

Based on your numbers, in non-vertical scenarios (a large portion of the game, especially once you know the maps) SJ is about 85% as good as SS. Flight, if you use AB, is about 80% as good as SS. This suggests that there is significant disparity between the abilities. Yes, SS will have issues in Boomtown, Grandville, and Skyway City, but most zones SS is going to outperform other travel power choices by 15-20% (and have stealth). In addition, Afterburner users are moving from 95% of SS numbers to an average of 77.1% of SS numbers (which feels like a significant nerf in terms of comparable performance.

 

As such, I would argue that the disparity is significant and requires deeper consideration.

 

11 hours ago, Luminara said:

In the flight feedback thread, I outline how a player can attain an unsuppressed Jump speed of 59.05 mph ...

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my response to your post. Your post illustrates that a buff to Hover and/or EvMa speed boosts is justifiable (you are spending three powers to get 90% the speed of zero power investment [CJ speed boost is almost nothing]), but it does weaken my argument for making Infiltration unsupressed. I think there is still an argument to be made for removing suppression, but it is weaker than I originally thought.

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4 hours ago, Zepp said:

Well, seeing as your non-Grandville numbers are producing speeds roughly equal to the cap disparities (SJ Cap 84.3%, PI 85.4%, NA 84.3%) (Fly Cap 73.1%, PI 74.5,% NA 73.8%) (AB 77.1-92.72%, PI 81.2%, NA 79%) I don't think that further testing is justified. You are likely to see a, percentage-wise, similar disparity between the powers on most maps.

Based on your numbers, in non-vertical scenarios (a large portion of the game, especially once you know the maps) SJ is about 85% as good as SS. Flight, if you use AB, is about 80% as good as SS. This suggests that there is significant disparity between the abilities. Yes, SS will have issues in Boomtown, Grandville, and Skyway City, but most zones SS is going to outperform other travel power choices by 15-20% (and have stealth). In addition, Afterburner users are moving from 95% of SS numbers to an average of 77.1% of SS numbers (which feels like a significant nerf in terms of comparable performance.

 

As such, I would argue that the disparity is significant and requires deeper consideration.

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my response to your post. Your post illustrates that a buff to Hover and/or EvMa speed boosts is justifiable (you are spending three powers to get 90% the speed of zero power investment [CJ speed boost is almost nothing]), but it does weaken my argument for making Infiltration unsupressed. I think there is still an argument to be made for removing suppression, but it is weaker than I originally thought.

I'll reiterate, for the final time, that my tests were conducted on extreme and outlier situations. There are no missions that require a player to travel in a straight line for 2 miles. There are no incentives to do so either, (badges, in-game events, street sweeping, etc.). Another way to explain this is that in any given situation, a player has a boundary distance around them in any direction to an objective. If a player needed to travel to something, say 10 miles away in total in game (I know its not likely, THAT IS THE POINT OF THE TEST), it isn't going to take more than a few minutes to do so- they could combine the newly established speed caps of these travel powers with the MANY MANY MANY options available to them (City Monorail, Black Helicopter Transports, Free Fire Zone Transports, Base Portals in every zone, Ferries, Tunnel System, Submarines, Ouroboros portals, LFG tab, teleport to contact, Long Range Teleport, Supergroup Portal Power, Base Transporter Power, the two day job base teleporter powers, mission teleporter and team teleporter). 

 

I am worried that you are confusing other players with your representation of my data - PLEASE refrain from using my data to spread misinformation. The context of my analysis is in extreme and outlier situations. These are not meant to represent an average or ordinary experience for players, they are nearly never going to happen. I am not posting an argument for / or against a power change, I am testing a power change, as was requested by the HC volunteer dev team. I have no agenda, my methodology can be used by others to verify similar results, I don't have a horse in the fight - I just want to help this community by testing power changes before they go live. One last thing I want to reiterate - this is the beta server forum - power changes don't always go live, so arguments for or against a power change are really moot. 

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Well, unless some hard numbers are provided on these other players supposedly confused, or the misinformation supposedly spread, why would we conclude that there's any problem?  Pretty sure it's also been reiterated that without data, opinions and analysis like that aren't nearly as valuable - and possibly worthless.  The data is what it is, not "theirs" or "mine", assuming the methodology was correct.  It forms a foundation and posters are going to interpret, extend analysis, and give feedback on the basis of it.  Analysis is not limited to those who gather a piece of data.  Interpretation and analysis isn't automatically valid if it comes from the data-gatherer.

 

 

My feedback on the travel power changes:

With the corrections to flight to ensure unenhanced page 2 flight is always equal or faster than Live flight (as promised in the related topic), I'll call it good enough for me.  Extensive personal beta testing or analysis of improvements hold little value to my circumstances, so I will save that for Live and thank the posters here for their efforts.

 

However, I'm not convinced that superspeed deserves to retain/extend as much of its Live or Beta speed advantages over flight, given its now greater vertical usefulness and the ease of navigating most open zone terrain near ground level.  SS's additional plus of built-in stealth, ease of combining with Jump Pack, and hasten's existence in that pool, are balanced only partly by Hover's value in my mind, and that's only for ranged characters.  Since I tend to utilize a mix of travel powers (except superjump, not a fan of it) but predominantly SS+CJ and flight variants, I am not in a position to care quite as much about relative balance between the two, as long as non-nerfing is confirmed.  I can understand why some posters are feeling that flight (or the flight pool generally) is still not getting fairly buffed.

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The tests I ran showed similar results. Whether they were short range or long range, they confirmed that the the travel powers are roughly equivalent at the same speed.

In a test for traveling from the northeast corner of IP to the southwest corner with all powers adjusted to between 87.95 & 88.00 showed:

SS - 2:12 (87.97)

SJ - 2:08 (88.00)

Fly - 2:07 (87.95)

 

SImilar tests show similar results in most zones (outliers are Boomtown, Grandville, Faultline, and Skyway.

 

I ran the Heather Townshend arc using the same slotting to equalize travel speeds. SS, SJ, & Fly all performed at a similar level. SJ had more issues in caves, Fly had more issues in controlling range (did not use Hover or EvMa). SS had minor issues with verticality.

 

In other words, they perform at a similar level at similar speeds. Super Speed could use some consideration for handling verticality issues, however the current differences lead to significant differences in performance. Flight, in particular, is much slower and requires at least one extra power pick to add a reasonable level of control.

 

If they had the same speed cap SS would still be the best choice (free stealth) followed by SJ, with Fly lagging (flight control requiring another pick is annoying). With the current differences in speed caps, the distance between the rankings increases even further.

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3 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

PLEASE refrain from using my data to spread misinformation.

Can you please give an example of me spreading misinformation.

 

Yes, I used your data in a different manner than you. The data showed that in-game the speed caps did not level the playing field, but rather they created disparity. That is not misinformation, that is a valid interpretation of existing data.

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24 minutes ago, Zepp said:

The tests I ran showed similar results. Whether they were short range or long range, they confirmed that the the travel powers are roughly equivalent at the same speed.

In a test for traveling from the northeast corner of IP to the southwest corner with all powers adjusted to between 87.95 & 88.00 showed:

SS - 2:12 (87.97)

SJ - 2:08 (88.00)

Fly - 2:07 (87.95)

 

SImilar tests show similar results in most zones (outliers are Boomtown, Grandville, Faultline, and Skyway.

 

I ran the Heather Townshend arc using the same slotting to equalize travel speeds. SS, SJ, & Fly all performed at a similar level. SJ had more issues in caves, Fly had more issues in controlling range (did not use Hover or EvMa). SS had minor issues with verticality.

 

In other words, they perform at a similar level at similar speeds. Super Speed could use some consideration for handling verticality issues, however the current differences lead to significant differences in performance. Flight, in particular, is much slower and requires at least one extra power pick to add a reasonable level of control.

 

If they had the same speed cap SS would still be the best choice (free stealth) followed by SJ, with Fly lagging (flight control requiring another pick is annoying). With the current differences in speed caps, the distance between the rankings increases even further.

Apologies for the many follow up questions, I did not see a detailed methodology in your post so it is difficult for me to replicate your experiment -

 

1. In the Heather Townshend arc, did you test these travel powers independently or in conjunction with other powers? For example, Super Speed with Speed Phase active, Super Jump with Combat Jump active, Fly with Evasive Maneuvers active or even Super Speed with Combat Jump active? 

 

2. Your conclusion that Super Speed could use some consideration for handling verticality issues - did you include the use of it's 4 second momentum power to gain vertically or did you choose not include it in your testing?

 

3. Was Fly being used as a travel power within the Heather Townshend arc or was it being used as a combat mobility power? If it was the former, then combat mobility would indeed be slower and require the use of Evasive Maneuvers to improve control. If it was the latter, then requiring an extra power pick (Evasive Maneuvers) to gain added combat mobility is necessary.


Lastly, I am confused as to which of your results are accurate - you say first that "The tests I ran showed similar results," then you say that "SImilar tests show similar results in most zones," and then you conclude that "the current differences lead to significant differences in performance," and that "With the current differences in speed caps, the distance between the rankings increases even further." Do your results show similar performance of travel powers or not?

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6 minutes ago, Zepp said:

[useful testing and input on balancing]

Thanks, Zepp.

The outcome once speed settings are used to highlight maneuvering difference is interesting.  This testing matches my experience during regular gameplay, and some tests I did last year on Live, showing only a few similar zones / situations where flight's vertical control gained a noteworthy advantage over SS (and now gains less vs beta SS/momentum).  In testing, I tried to focus on common routes involving endpoints like trams, Midnighter Club, badges, and distant mission doors (yes, Citadel, I mean you).  If we knew what test cases contributed to the devs' valuing flight higher, maybe any mismatches could be cleared up. 

 

Once I added use of the free Jump Pack, I was able to bring SS's performance in Faultline, Boomtown, and all other flight-advantaged routes much closer to Flight, as these areas' jumping requirements were easier to anticipate by vision, in my testing.  Didn't help as much in DA, Grandville or Skyway unless I was already familiar with the particular path, say from the old SG portal exit in Sky to the far NE badge or the Moonfire delivery mission contact.  I'm not about to tackle the question of whether speeds should be balanced around newbie versus experienced zone travelers.

 

I would tend to agree with your balancing input, though of course I'm in no position to implement them.  As-is,

> My melee chars that typically SS+CJ are going to feel even more speedy and excellent at maneuvering in the overwhelming majority of situations.

> My typically flight-based ranged chars will improve moderately through IO set bonuses that can now apply past the old caps, and either

>> some mild improvements via free part-time AB (on those who didn't have it), or 

>> occasional use of EvM where -Fly was a problem or on a character without other Immob protection.  Hover provided (and still does) what combat speed/control I needed.

> My Mystic Fliers will improve least of all, just gaining the lifted cap which lets more IO bonuses apply.  Those that had SS for stealth may use it in more open zone travel cases.  The higher range on the built-in teleport isn't much help for cross-zone travel due to the feeling of lag during activation and endurance consumption that stacks with the flight itself.

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@Glacier Peak

I normalized the power speeds (SS 87.97, SJ 88.00, Fly 87.95) and kept the powers toggled for the entire mission arc. I did not use any other movement - enhancing powers nor did I use tray powers. I avoided using SS momentum.

 

For the missions I only attacked necessary targets to minimize RNG differences.

 

This was a test of the three core travel power modalities on an even playing field. In that playing field in terms of movement they performed about the same.

 

However, the playing field is not even. The stealth of SS, plus a tray power that increases mobility, and a momentum mechanism to address its weakness make it preferable to the other two at the same speed.

 

For crossing zones without momentum at the same speed, SS slightly underperformed. This is replicatable in most zones.

 

For missions. At the same speed, SSs innate stealth gives it an advantage and its verticality issues are not severe even without momentum.

 

As such, at 87.95-88.00, without using tray powers or any non-auto travel adjustment powers SS performed the best, Fly the worst. However, the time for completion differences were not statistically significant.

 

The caveat is that the speed caps increase disparity, although I have not tested the HT arc for statistical significance on capped travel powers yet.

 

Edited by Zepp
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33 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

2. Your conclusion that Super Speed could use some consideration for handling verticality issues - did you include the use of it's 4 second momentum power to gain vertically or did you choose not include it in your testing?

While mine is a side note to the direct answer you requested, I'm confident it's a reference to SS deserving a somewhat higher speed and speed cap (or other benefits) as "consideration" for its still mildly inferior vertical capabilities compared to Flight and SJ, across the variety of open-zone travel scenarios that have been noted so far.  To those of us whose experience/testing leads us to conclude that SS is being buffed (incorrectly) further than Flight, I think we mostly or entirely agree with the dev team that SS does need some speed advantage, and only question the amount of that advantage.

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I recommend testing in St Martial going from the Base Portal to Dead Man’s Tree (NW corner of the island. There’s a lot of crap in the way for SS to get by.

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34 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

 Do your results show similar performance of travel powers or not?

At the beginning of my post I make it clear that these tests were done at 87.95-88.00 speeds. At that speed range performance is similar. Adjust for staggered speed caps and performance is quite different.

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Let's face it:

Min/maxers are not going to invest another slot in their travel powers in order to have capped speed. Most people who weren't taking travel powers before still won't take them.

 

Those of us who value travel as one of the most fun parts of the game are going to love these changes. Very few of us are bothered by a difference in time getting to missions measuring less than 30 seconds.

 

I think these changes are great because they give people Options to go even faster if they want to invest the slots to do so.

 

Someone else getting to the mission faster than you, while you get there faster than you used to, still means you got buffed not nerfed.

 

Disliking the potential fiddliness of the server trays is valid, but again we have Options to get rid of it should we choose to do so.

 

Fly will still be the most popular travel power even with the "increased disparity".

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Some more numbers. Someone please correct my math if I did this wrong.

 

Rough Live Caps

 

ss 93
sj 78
fly 59

 

 

Rough Beta Caps and Rough Percentage Increases


ss 120 +30%
sj 102 +30%
fly 93 +58% (average over 90 seconds, Fly goes UP on shorter trips)

 

 

 

Again, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm right Fly is getting almost TWICE the buff the others are getting.



EDIT: I think some of my numbers ARE wrong, so disregard while I look some stuff up.

 



Ok, I see my error. My numbers are correct IF we ignore Live Afterburner. We can't fairly do that, but we can recognize that on Live flyers must take an additional power to get to their higher cap, on Beta they can do it just with slotting and no OAS.

 

So I add another line:

 

Live Fly+AB Cap is 88

Beta again is 93 (average over 90 seconds) 

 

approximately +6%

 

So it IS fair to say that for actual travel (at least 90 seconds), Fly is getting a much smaller buff than the others IF you have AB on Live. However, that difference gets less and less as the trips get shorter. For a 30 second trip, Fly will actually be very slightly faster than SJ and will have been buffed. And of course if you DON'T have AB on live you are getting a BIG buff.

In Combat speed of course Flight is getting a big buff and the others are getting nothing.
 

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21 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

if I'm right Fly is getting almost TWICE the buff the others are getting.

 

Yes, Fly alone is getting a large % cap boost, though it can be seen as an aspect of being as low as it was in the first place.   It would be strange for me to oppose a boost from running at 10 to running at 50 based on its (seemingly) astonishing 500% gain, while accepting a flight boost of a comparatively "tiny" 50% from a raw 100 to 150.  The comparison is more fairly served by noting the raw increases and percentages, and the awareness that bringing things into parity may require bigger buffs to the underperforming powers.

 

The second point of difference is that it's not Fly (Live, alone) vs Fly (Beta, alone), it's Fly+AB (Live) vs Fly+AB+[maybe]EvM (Beta), when we're talking about people trying to improve open-zone travel speeds.  For those who care about open zone travel, they very likely took AB on Live.  So those players are comparing what they used to use on Live (Fly+AB) to their options on Beta.  In this way, the Fly+AB users are losing ground (hah) relative to SS's cap.  But whether any of us should care, only the individual can decide.  And people who give any weight to feelings of fairness / human psychology in game design, possibly.

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23 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

EDIT: I think some of my numbers ARE wrong, so disregard while I look some stuff up.

 

Your numbers looked fine, and it is representative of only looking at the Travel Power being taken (not taking a T5 in the set, which requires an investment of 3 powers taken from the pool)

 

The 58% improvement is accurate when factoring in built in Afterburner being up 1/3rd of the time. With AB off, it is a 50% buff.

 

If you want to compare Fly+EvMa (Page 2) with Fly+AB (Live), you're looking at a 5.4% buff on average. Of course, for any trip that is less than 30s in duration, it is a 16.3% buff. This does not factor in the truth that you would need to invest far more enhancements into Afterburner to reach the 87.95 mph cap on Live as opposed to simply needing a single IO in Fly and EvMa to reach the 87.95 mph cap on Page 2. Of course there is also the fact you can reach that same cap with just Fly alone on Page 2 by adding 1 more enhancement slot to the power, and not waste 2 extra power picks to get to the cap (as you do with Afterburner on Live).

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Regarding how much investment each pool requires in order to max it out, and again someone please correct me if I've missed something:

 

SS must have 2 slots.

SJ must have 2 slots.

Fly may need 3 slots, or 2 slots with additional bonuses from sets or powers, or No slots with EvM.

Teleport must have 3 slots (and theoretically also additional Range bonuses or Range buffing powers such as Boost Range or Clarion Radial).

 

 

I'm not really sure if that's all good or not, but it seems mostly ok to me.

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A portion of debate may involve EvM's presence.  Sure, AB effects are partly added to Flight, with accompanying levels of (dis?)pleasure in the precise mechanics.  But once again, a second power (EvM in Beta, AB is on Live) is still being offered to bring forth the Flight pool's max potential for certain uses.  So that convolutes the question of whether Flight (the pool) is getting buffed appropriately or in balance with other travel pools' options for speedy travel (and combat, and buffs).  It ends up as a pretty subjective answer based on what each  player / character *was* dipping into these travel powers to accomplish, and what they might do differently in Page 2.

 

I also get the impression we're in a holding pattern for some fixes/adjustments in the pipeline.   Bopper's tables have come in extra-helpful for me during the sometimes unexpected shifts in this process.

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More numbers:


 

Rough Live Caps

 

ss 93
sj 78 (.83 run)
fly 59 (.63 run, .75 jump)
fly+ab 88 (.95 run, 1.12 jump)
 

 

Rough Beta Caps 


ss 120 
sj 102 (.85 run)
fly ~93  (.78 run, .91 jump)

 

 

 

Based on these numbers, I would have to say that always on AB was OP, justified only by how bad Fly was without AB. Both of these problems are fixed in beta.
 

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2 minutes ago, PirateCrew said:

A portion of debate may involve EvM's presence.  Sure, AB effects are partly added to Flight, with accompanying levels of (dis?)pleasure in the precise mechanics.  But once again, a second power (EvM in Beta, AB is on Live) is still being offered to bring forth the Flight pool's max potential for certain uses.  So that convolutes the question of whether Flight (the pool) is getting buffed appropriately or in balance with other travel pools' options for speedy travel (and combat, and buffs).  It ends up as a pretty subjective answer based on what each  player / character *was* dipping into these travel powers to accomplish, and what they might do differently in Page 2.

 

I also get the impression we're in a holding pattern for some fixes/adjustments in the pipeline.   Bopper's tables have come in extra-helpful for me during the sometimes unexpected shifts in this process.

I think that because it's only In Combat value we're talking about it's ok. You don't need EvM for travel purposes, you can do that just with slotting. Hover without EvM is still a very good pick.

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57 minutes ago, PirateCrew said:

But once again, a second power (EvM in Beta, AB is on Live) is still being offered to bring forth the Flight pool's max potential for certain uses

What makes you think that, exactly? EvMa adds speed, sure, but it does not unlock Flight's potential. That's like saying Sprint unlocks Super Speed's potential. Sure, it makes it easier to hit the cap, but it is not required to reach that cap.

 

The fantastic thing(s) about EvMa is the fact it does not suppress its speed in combat. A lot of people will like that, and those who don't are in no way required to take the power as it is not like Afterburner - you are not required to take it to go faster. Others will like the power for its other benefits, in particular the KB resistance and Immobilization protection. I've detailed about that numerous times before, I won't belabor the point again. 

 

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

Regarding how much investment each pool requires in order to max it out, and again someone please correct me if I've missed something:

 

SS must have 2 slots.

SJ must have 2 slots.

Fly may need 3 slots, or 2 slots with additional bonuses from sets or powers, or No slots with EvM.

Teleport must have 3 slots (and theoretically also additional Range bonuses or Range buffing powers such as Boost Range or Clarion Radial).

 

 

I'm not really sure if that's all good or not, but it seems mostly ok to me.

Based on what Jimmy posted, next patch will have a Fly speed buff of about 2mph at base. So that increase in scale will now only require Fly to need about 84% enhancement to hit the cap (2 Lvl 50 IOs, non-boosted). You can probably do a Travel set using Fly and Fly/End and it should get you close enough to where set bonuses gets you the rest of the way.

 

If you use a +5 IO in Sprint, Swift, and Super Speed, you will be VERY close to the cap. The last 4 mph can be had via set bonuses.

As for Teleport...there is not a real practical path for reaching its theoretical cap. You can do some range boost tricks, certainly.

Edited by Bopper
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