Martial Arts Tweaks

[xl8]

Add 90 degree cone to storm kick.

Drop Crane Kick animation time to 0.83--same as Storm and Thunder kick.

Remove flip from Eagle Claw animation and cut animation time to ~1.8s.

[MTeague]

I just want more animations for Crippling Axe Kick.  I hate it's vanilla animation AND the alternate punch animation. 

I'm just too darn picky about some things, I guess.

[Psyonico]

I like the flip from Eagle Claw...

[BLVD]

Storm Kick is already extremely valuable for a t2 power with the +def it adds. I don't see any reason it needs to be buffed. However, would love to see the alternate animation for storm kick from blasters available on all AT's. 

[Naraka]

4 minutes ago, tan702 said:

Storm Kick is already extremely valuable for a t2 power with the +def it adds. I don't see any reason it needs to be buffed. However, would love to see the alternate animation for storm kick from blasters available on all AT's. 

I thought the+def was only on Tanker and Brute MA.

[xl8]

 

18 minutes ago, Naraka said:

I thought the+def was only on Tanker and Brute MA

This.

23 minutes ago, tan702 said:

I don't see any reason it needs to be buffed.

On it's own it doesn't. As a set, MA would graduate to on par with most other primaries because it would no longer be so ST focused (tried and failed with Eagle's Claw last beta).

Why Storm Kick? Simply because the animation fits the arc.

[Aracknight]

Storm Kick's +def is currently only available for brutes and tankers, but would be most welcome to scrappers and stalkers, even at a reduced amount of 5% (Tankers get 10%, Brutes 7.5%).

 

I also don't mind giving us the Blaster animation version, but let's port ours to them too.  

 

I think the answer we landed on last time we had this discussion for Storm Kick was that adding a cone to it would have a commensurate impact on its recharge time, its damage, and its end cost, and I definitely don't like that.   I like the idea, but i don't wanna pay for it 😛

 

I do however support adding a cone to Crippling Axe Kick.  I believe t's alternate animation is already similar/the same as the Fighting Pool's Cross Punch, so I feel that this is not an unnatural change.  The activation times are close (1.6 vs 1.67 seconds), and Cross Punch recharges faster than CAK, so we Martial Artists could get the cone, make it animate slightly slower, keep the longer recharge and higher damage, and call it close-ish to even.

 

 

 

 

 

Other thoughts:

Thunder Kick:  Dear Tankers, I'm sorry you're stuck with this, and that they weren't able to make it so you could skip it without breaking the whole game.  Maybe we should ask if we can swap your primary and secondary without changing any of the math of your Archetype so you guys can.  And maybe give it an alternate animation like Brawl.

 

Cobra Strike:  since they rebalanced this in retail and added the sweet uppercut, this one is good to go.  

 

Crane Kick:  with the addition of KB to KD, this one is good to go.  I don't mind the KB, I use this power at the end of my attack chain or when I see that a mob's health is low enough to get finished off by it, and I rather enjoy watching a defeated enemy ragdoll off and not get back up.  Especially when they get caught in a blue glowy wall on an outside map or on a fence.

 

Dragon's Tail:  I like this power too.  I'd like to see the damage be a bit more, maybe equal to Storm Kick just for my OCD purposes.  Again, I don't mind KB/KD, but a lot don't.  Maybe changing to knockup instead is the answer?  Oh, and a sweet ground punch alternate animation wouldn't suck either.

 

Eagle's Claw:  I want to like this power, I do.  I like the animation.  I like the alternate animation.  But all the math I've read says it's not the most efficient for attack chains.  Maybe if it did more damage, or did more damage coming out of stealth, or stunned harder, or recharged faster, or had a guaranteed crit, I don't know.  I don't have the answer to this one guys.

 

Warrior's challenge/Warriors Provocation:  an alternate Martial Artsy Animation could set this apart from good old taunt/confront.  I'm sure there's several emotes or powers that could be tapped for this.

 

Focus Chi:  something different.  It's Build up, which is thematic (Hello, Iron Fist), and maybe with another martial artsy emote it could be more appealing to me, but I also like the idea of a ranged attack option like a hadouken or a throwing star (Hello, Focus, Hurl Boulder, and Throw Spines ) or a two-fer that is a light  attack that gives a bonus to damage and to hit for a brief time (Hello, Follow up and Blinding Feint).  Or maybe something with a click and a longer duration and a crash where you are tired and slower after using your chi to wreck something (Hello, Rage).

 

 

With that said, I think there's room for Martial Arts to do cool stuff for other powers too.  Storm Kick's alternate animation is basically the Boxing power from Fighting, why not give Boxing Storm Kick's and call the alternate animation "Kickboxing?"

 

Air Superiority is begging for Cobra Strike's uppercut animation.  It even does knockup!  I'd straight up change to Air Superiority for that alone lol.  (Author's note:  in I8, when Cobra Strike sucked, I did actually use Air Superiority in my chain.  It was really good for mitigation)

 

This is just off the top of my head.  I may add more later if I give it more thought.

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

[kelika2]

If Storm Kicks old flurry animation came back id be in for it being a cone.

[Uun]

Spinning Kick (from Martial Assault) is Storm Kick as a non-targeted cone. 

[Zeraphia]

On 4/2/2021 at 12:35 PM, MTeague said:

I just want more animations for Crippling Axe Kick.  I hate it's vanilla animation AND the alternate punch animation. 

I'm just too darn picky about some things, I guess.

SERIOUSLY. I don't know how much more I could possibly agree with a suggestion like this. The animation is cool and all, but there has got to be some nice more flashy Axe Kick-type animations from various martial arts styles that can suite this power better. +1

[KelvinKole]

Based on the updates Dark Melee and Energy Melee both got recently, I think Martial Arts definitely should be looked at next. 

 

I don't really want to see another combo system or builder/spender mechanic though. A faster eagles claw seems necessary, but aside from that I think Focus Chi should be turned into something more than a traditional build up. Maybe make it splash some aoe energy (chi) damage around your target, in like an 8ft radius. That would give the set a bit more aoe without forcing a change to the single target attacks. 

[Outrider_01]

Quote

Focus Chi should be turned into something more than a traditional build up

Like rage with +DMG for a duration or Firery Embrace adding a Smashing +Proc damage effect.

[America's Angel]

On 4/2/2021 at 5:04 PM, xl8 said:

Remove flip from Eagle Claw animation and cut animation time to ~1.8s.

 

On 4/17/2021 at 2:46 PM, KelvinKole said:

...A faster eagles claw seems necessary...

Absolutely not. The incredible animation is why people take the power. (And in my case, the set.)

 

I would hate to see one of the coolest looking animations in this game ruined because the forum playerbase is obsessed with chasing min/max DPS. Everything in the game doesn't have to be tweaked to fit the cookie-cutter way people on the forums play their characters.

 

As for Martial Arts in a more general sense? It's really good if you know how to build properly. (Both in PVE and PVP). The only issue is AOE is a little lackluster. The solution is easy, take either Crane Kick or Crippling Axe Kick, Cobra Strike and make one of them a cone. That's all the set needs. No combo system. No reimagining. No gutting of Eagles Claw's epic animation. Just a minor tweak to one power.

Edited April 18, 2021 by America's Angel

[Myrmidon]

6 hours ago, America's Angel said:

The solution is easy, take either Crane Kick or Crippling Axe Kick, and make one of them a cone. That's all the set needs

Make this happen and my MA/DA Stalker would be happy.

[KelvinKole]

14 hours ago, America's Angel said:

 

Absolutely not. The incredible animation is why people take the power. (And in my case, the set.)

 

I would hate to see one of the coolest looking animations in this game ruined because the forum playerbase is obsessed with chasing min/max DPS. Everything in the game doesn't have to be tweaked to fit the cookie-cutter way people on the forums play their characters.

 

As for Martial Arts in a more general sense? It's really good if you know how to build properly. (Both in PVE and PVP). The only issue is AOE is a little lackluster. The solution is easy, take either Crane Kick or Crippling Axe Kick, and make one of them a cone. That's all the set needs. No combo system. No reimagining. No gutting of Eagles Claw's epic animation. Just a minor tweak to one power.

People will take Eagles Claw if it was actually a good power too. I like the animation as well, though, so it could also just hit hatter to justify the animation time. 

 

CAK is currently the best single target attack in the set. I'd rather not rework it unless Eagles Claw also got a rework. Changing either Cobra strike or Crane kick, as you suggested, makes more sense to me since they are numerical clones of each other. 

[America's Angel]

2 minutes ago, KelvinKole said:

People will take Eagles Claw if it was actually a good power too. I like the animation as well, though, so it could also just hit hatter to justify the animation time. 

 

CAK is currently the best single target attack in the set. I'd rather not rework it unless Eagles Claw also got a rework. Changing either Cobra strike or Crane kick, as you suggested, makes more sense to me since they are numerical clones of each other. 

I wouldn't say no to an EC damage boost as long as the animation is left completely alone.

 

And I meant to put Cobra Strike, not Crippling Axe Kick. Oops. 😄

 

 

 

[Haijinx]

According to Galaxy Brain's testing MA is actually one of the better Melee sets for mission clear times already. 

 

 

[PeregrineFalcon]

19 hours ago, America's Angel said:

That's all the set needs. No combo system. No reimagining. No gutting of Eagles Claw's epic animation. Just a minor tweak to one power.

This is, word for word, almost exactly what we said when the Energy Melee changes were on beta, but the developers were bound and determined to add their cute little combo mechanic to Energy Melee.

 

I honestly hope that they don't ignore you like they ignored us. My MA/SR Scrapper is one of my favorite characters.

[Apparition]

Eagle's Claw needs something on Brutes.  The animation is fine, it's that +dmg is pretty much useless on Brutes.

[America's Angel]

5 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

This is, word for word, almost exactly what we said when the Energy Melee changes were on beta, but the developers were bound and determined to add their cute little combo mechanic to Energy Melee.

 

I honestly hope that they don't ignore you like they ignored us. My MA/SR Scrapper is one of my favorite characters.

IME the devs are usually pretty good at listening to feedback. Having been through two beta cycles with them now, I've seen them walk back/ change enough things based on player feedback to see that they do listen. (Even if they don't always agree with the feedback they receive, they're certainly reading it.)

 

That said, Martial Arts is is a much more popular set than old EM was, and the Eagles Claw animation is beloved by many. So I'd be surprised if there's any big changes in store for MA.

 

 

5 hours ago, Apparition said:

Eagle's Claw needs something on Brutes.  The animation is fine, it's that +dmg is pretty much useless on Brutes.

Giving EC a "damage buff" doesn't mean make it do +dmg. It means increase the base damage. (I.e. the thing multiplied by all the +dmg brutes get.) So this would benefit brutes just as much as the other ATs.

 

(Again, not that it needs it. Eagles Claw should be left alone. Even the almost-old-enough-to-drink typo that is its name.)

 

[Apparition]

32 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

IME the devs are usually pretty good at listening to feedback. Having been through two beta cycles with them now, I've seen them walk back/ change enough things based on player feedback to see that they do listen. (Even if they don't always agree with the feedback they receive, they're certainly reading it.)

 

That said, Martial Arts is is a much more popular set than old EM was, and the Eagles Claw animation is beloved by many. So I'd be surprised if there's any big changes in store for MA.

 

 

Giving EC a "damage buff" doesn't mean make it do +dmg. It means increase the base damage. (I.e. the thing multiplied by all the +dmg brutes get.) So this would benefit brutes just as much as the other ATs.

 

(Again, not that it needs it. Eagles Claw should be left alone. Even the almost-old-enough-to-drink typo that is its name.)

 

 

 

No, no.  What I meant that the +dmg Eagle's Claw gives on Brutes *now* is wasted, and it would be nice if it did something else on Brutes.

[Uun]

12 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

 

No, no.  What I meant that the +dmg Eagle's Claw gives on Brutes *now* is wasted, and it would be nice if it did something else on Brutes.

The version Blasters get has a range and recharge debuff and a chance of lethal DoT.

[Hew]

MA was already updated once with free splash damage, and it blew up on beta with complaints. The splash damage was 100% free, but enough people (didn't test? just wanted to complain?) felt that was the wrong direction that it was stripped out.

 

[xl8]

On 4/17/2021 at 7:19 PM, America's Angel said:

The incredible animation is why people take the power.

I agree that the jump and kick is great, but the flip is both unnecessary and unrealistic.
Now if said flip gave a defense bonus, say 5%, then it would be fitting with what we're seeing on screen. Needn't be much. It's not a fast rch power, so It's not like we're getting a Divine Avalanche level of defense that's always up.

 

On 4/17/2021 at 7:19 PM, America's Angel said:

I would hate to see one of the coolest looking animations in this game ruined because the forum playerbase is obsessed with chasing min/max DPS

Which is not the case here or in my original post.

[America's Angel]

  

20 hours ago, Hew said:

MA was already updated once with free splash damage, and it blew up on beta with complaints. The splash damage was 100% free, but enough people (didn't test? just wanted to complain?) felt that was the wrong direction that it was stripped out.

 

 

Plenty people tested it. It just didn't work well so got rolled back.

 

 

24 minutes ago, xl8 said:

the flip is both unnecessary and unrealistic.

 

It looks cool.

Edited April 20, 2021 by America's Angel