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Focused Feedback: Pool Powerset Revamp: Sorcery


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1 minute ago, Faultline said:

Damage formulas dictate base damage, bonus damage on powers has to be tied to gimmick mechanics.

 

I like gimmicks. They make things interesting. If I don't want to mess with gimmicks there are plenty of powersets without them, and many with gimmicks so insignificant that they can be ignored.

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Personally, I can’t wait to get onto the test server tonight to try these changes out.  I see everything but the RoP changes as a buff to the full set, if mainly a QOL buff for Spirit Ward (although with its CD lowered significantly, this too could be considered a buff situationally).  But the changes to Arcane Bolt are definitely a buff and for my MM’s who dip into the Sorcery pool, I’ll definitely take those upgrades.  Enflame has always been “meh” to me, but the upgrade to Mystic Flight’s performance will actually save me a slot to use elsewhere (likely in AB).  

 

On the balance, even with reducing the usefulness of RoP, the buffs to the remainder of the set encourage me to believe we may see similar things with the other sets as well.  And since this release was primarily about QOL improvements for travel powers (YAY TO JET BOARD NOW WORKING WITHOUT DETOGGLING EVERYTHING ELSE!) the ‘theme’ of this release sorta all fits now.  And relative to the first beta release when we just had RoP nerfed, it’s a nice offset to offer some improvements to the other powers.

 

I don’t like having forced respecs, but I can certainly find more to like with Sorcery pool now than I would have.

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7 minutes ago, Faultline said:

 

Damage formulas dictate base damage, bonus damage on powers has to be tied to gimmick mechanics.

 

(note: I like the whack-a-mole combo mechanic)

 

Would it be possible/probable to tie to bonus damage to the number of Sorcery powers you take? Like the fighting Synergy? With both Spirit Ward and Enflame getting the 'you're a toggle now' treatment, having Arcane Bolt just do more damage the more Sorcery you know could make it simpler.

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2 minutes ago, Take One said:

 

I like gimmicks. They make things interesting. If I don't want to mess with gimmicks there are plenty of powersets without them, and many with gimmicks so insignificant that they can be ignored.

 

Agreed, and you don’t HAVE to use gimmicks if you don’t want to.  Just mash the button when it comes up.  If you min/max, sure....play the gimmick.  But otherwise, just ignore it.

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12 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Any chance I can talk you into dropping the whole combo mechanic for Arcane Bolt? Why does every powerset need a wack-a-mole combo mechanic? Why can't the Council just up the damage and call it good?

The Arcane Power mechanic exists to allow Arcane Bolt to be a power that's useful to have in your build due to its situational potential, but not be so reliable and powerful that it can become a core part of your attack chain and displace a primary or secondary power.

 

4 minutes ago, Arbegla said:

 

(note: I like the whack-a-mole combo mechanic)

 

Would it be possible/probable to tie to bonus damage to the number of Sorcery powers you take? Like the fighting Synergy? With both Spirit Ward and Enflame getting the 'you're a toggle now' treatment, having Arcane Bolt just do more damage the more Sorcery you know could make it simpler.

This would run somewhat counter to the powers being strong independent picks. Baseline Arcane Bolt would likely end up being pretty weak if we went ahead and did something like this.

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38 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

  

The Arcane Power mechanic exists to allow Arcane Bolt to be a power that's useful to have in your build due to its situational potential, but not be so reliable and powerful that it can become a core part of your attack chain and displace a primary or secondary power.

The problem with this thinking is that Arcane Bolt seems to be most often taken in builds that lack sufficient primary/secondary powers to build a reliable attack chain, and so use AB to fill a gap in that chain, not displace an existing power.

And this mentality concerns me:  why should pool power attacks, especially in origin pools, not be on a par with primary/secondary powerset attacks, even if only on a T1/T2 level?  Putting them at a similar power level increases build diversity options; arbitrarily making them inherently weaker decreases those options and ensures these pools will remain an oddity among builds.

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Apologies if these points have already been discussed...

 

Activating Mystic Flight builds up Arcane Power (so does using Translocation... and activating Fly... and wow it seems like any power I use it builds Arcane Power) - is this a known issue or is it working as intended? EDIT: I see after rereading the patch notes that this is working as intended, though the patch notes indicate a "small chance" for any power to add Arcane Power - it "feels" like any power ALWAYS adds it.

Spoiler

image.png.fab4baa755900e8a7bfacf5b0cbb7182.pngimage.png.13dd99c1ef32d18b271df4a8ae5335e6.pngimage.png.16d149146b6e84f72382b443ea5002ec.png 

 

[Subjective opinion] The GFX from Enflame is pretty overpowering. Going in to pool power customization, if there were less graphically pronounced or really just fewer particles maybe?

Spoiler

image.png.22e2baeec9bf94441f511d326b77bc58.png

 

I didn't realize this in the last few builds, but I can use Mystic Flight in conjunction with Afterburner (assuming Fly is toggled) is achieve the highest speed cap. I love that these powers can remain active, but only take the highest buffs.

 

Last one, Rune of Protection - wow! I never took this power before, no reason not to, just never did.

 

I can't believe it doesn't have a crash! AND it takes resistance IOs! Holy cow, I can get it to over 30% resistance to ALL for 40 seconds! And mez protection! Good lord this is an amazing power.

 

Glad I jumped on to the beta server to test it out instead of reading through the patch notes and jumping in to my armchair! 😁

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Very glad to hear the update is not going live until the development team is comfortable with the Sorcery Pool changes.

 

My formalized feedback:

 

1.  Mystic Flight is great.

 

2.  Arcane Bolt buff and the proc mechanism make it a better and more interesting power.  Would love to see the proc rate based on the number of Sorcery powers owned.  But that may be too complex to put in place.  But it would be awesome if the Bolt was stronger the more invested you were in the Sorcery Pool.

 

3.  Spirit Ward is certainly better and I like that it is a toggle.  But I believe it would be a much more interesting and sought after power if it also buffed the caster.  This would give the power more value for folks that play solo.  Would also encourage teaming with others and the use of pets.  And I think it would be a somewhat unique power in that you have to remain relatively close to the pet or ally being buffed to be able to maintain the buff on yourself.   I think the concept of a "mystical bond" between the caster and the ally/pet would make it well suited for the Sorcery Pool and this would distinguish the power from all the other available ally buffs.  The endurance cost associated with the power would also seem more justified with a buff to both the caster and the ally.

 

4.  I am okay with whatever happens to RoP.  I would prefer a 90 second duration with a much smaller magnitude of mez protection and perhaps a smaller amount of resistance.  I would also prefer that the power be able to take recharge enhancements.  Seems better if players have as much control over their builds as possible.  But I also recognize that a locked in recharge is helpful to lower level characters and would require less slotting.  And that a shorter duration seems more palatable to the development team.  Break Frees don't seem to drop that often for me as inspirations; so a frequently available, resistance-enhanced break free is not a bad power to own.  But the reality is that RoP will no longer be pulling folks toward the Sorcery Pool by itself.  It won't be the same draw that it used to be.

 

5.  Which leads me to Enflame.  I think Enflame should become the cornerstone power of the Sorcery Pool.  A moving damage patch that can be applied to either an ally or a foe is a really cool and amazing power.  I am glad that the power is now functionally better but I think it would be a much bigger draw for the Sorcery Pool if it could become significantly more powerful.  At present I would not use it on any builds.  It just doesn't do that much.  But the thought of being able to weaponize a pet is super exciting to think about.  I don't currently use pets all that much.  Rarely ever even use the Lore Pets.  But putting both a Spirit Ward and an Enflame toggle on a pet and letting that pet run amok would be something I would certainly change a build to accommodate.  That would make Enflame a fun power to use - if Enflame was impactful enough to actually make use of.  The synergy with Spirit Ward would also be cool.  How the power is made more powerful doesn't really matter to me.  It just needs to be better before it can become something that will draw folks to Sorcery and offset the duration reduction of RoP.  The current buffs to Arcane Bolt, Spirit Ward and Enflame are a decent offset to the RoP nerf - but I don't believe the overall effect will be to move the needle much on the popularity of the Sorcery Pool.  To make the Sorcery Pool more appealing and more popular and still reduce the effectiveness of RoP, then I believe going big on Enflame is the answer.   And the game is already filled with wacky and over-powered attacks.  Adding one more is not going to cause the same balance unease that RoP seems to cause.  Basically Enflame should be the Sorcery equivalent of detonating a henchman.  That would be very unique and very appealing to a lot of players I think.   I would be excited to use a beefed up version of Enflame.  I am okay with leaving the fear component on the power when placed on a foe - but only if the power was significantly better in the damage that it caused.  Right now having the foe run around mindlessly and cause minimal damage is just frustrating.  But the big draw for me would still be weaponizing pets.

 

Thank you for all the work re-tooling this power pool.  I think the Sorcery Pool has great potential.  Look forward to all of this going live.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

but not be so reliable and powerful that it can become a core part of your attack chain and displace a primary or secondary power.

I had a whole thing typed up, then realized that it's beyond the scope and off-topic for this thread. That said, why do Pool Powers have to be weaker? What's the design philosophy behind an enforcement of weakness in a power pick that replaces (and counts against the total of) a "real" power?

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10 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

The problem with this thinking is that Arcane Bolt seems to be most often taken in builds that lack sufficient primary/secondary powers to build a reliable attack chain, and so use AB to fill a gap in that chain, not displace an existing power.

And this mentality concerns me:  why should pool power attacks, especially in origin pools, not be on a par with primary/secondary powerset attacks, even if only on a T1/T2 level?  Putting them at a similar power level increases build diversity options; arbitrarily making them inherently weaker decreases those options and ensures these pools will remain an oddity among builds.

I'd say that it's definitely stronger than T1 blasts and only a tad weaker than T2 blasts - without the potential bonus damage. With the bonus damage it easily outclasses T2 blasts.

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9 hours ago, Bopper said:
9 hours ago, Troo said:

 

'I am the law!' a comedy by Faultline.

 

Do any other pools have two 0.52/s endurance cost toggles?

Enflame is still broken.

Arcane Bolt is better but still a trash pick that will force the use of respecs when players realize this.

On Live, Flight has two toggles that are 0.65/sec. But Afterburner will be removed, and Evasive Maneuvers has already had its cost reduced from 0.52/sec to 0.26/sec.

 

What about Enflame is broken? The details would help in fixing the problem.

 

I disagree on the conclusion of Arcane Bolt is still a trash pick (it would help if there are details on why it's trash). The animation shaving now makes it an ok power to use in terms of DPA (not as good as a powerset attack, which a pool power shouldn't be), but with an avenue to only use it when it's ready for double damage makes it a great power DPA wise. 2.96 scale damage in 1.73s cast time from a pool power, yeah that's not trash.

 

Ah thanks for the reply.

 

So there will be no other pools with two 0.52/s endurance cost toggles.

 

I'll get back with enflame specifics.

 

I understand your opinion on Arcane Bolt but really there is only so much that can be done with a pool power in that position. It is just not going to be competitive with primary, secondaries., etc. Making it 'sound' exciting in my opinion is a disservice and sort of misleading. Adding a quirky mechanic.. respecville.

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5 minutes ago, scottocamp said:

Very glad to hear the update is not going live until the development team is comfortable with the Sorcery Pool changes.

 

My formalized feedback:

 

1.  Mystic Flight is great.

 

2.  Arcane Bolt buff and the proc mechanism make it a better and more interesting power.  Would love to see the proc rate based on the number of Sorcery powers owned.  But that may be too complex to put in place.  But it would be awesome if the Bolt was stronger the more invested you were in the Sorcery Pool.

 

3.  Spirit Ward is certainly better and I like that it is a toggle.  But I believe it would be a much more interesting and sought after power if it also buffed the caster.  This would give the power more value for folks that play solo.  Would also encourage teaming with others and the use of pets.  And I think it would be a somewhat unique power in that you have to remain relatively close to the pet or ally being buffed to be able to maintain the buff on yourself.   I think the concept of a "mystical bond" between the caster and the ally/pet would make it well suited for the Sorcery Pool and this would distinguish the power from all the other available ally buffs.  The endurance cost associated with the power would also seem more justified with a buff to both the caster and the ally.

 

4.  I am okay with whatever happens to RoP.  I would prefer a 90 second duration with a much smaller magnitude of mez protection and perhaps a smaller amount of resistance.  I would also prefer that the power be able to take recharge enhancements.  Seems better if players have as much control over their builds as possible.  But I also recognize that a locked in recharge is helpful to lower level characters and would require less slotting.  And that a shorter duration seems more palatable to the development team.  Break Frees don't seem to drop that often for me as inspirations; so a frequently available, resistance-enhanced break free is not a bad power to own.  But the reality is that RoP will no longer be pulling folks toward the Sorcery Pool by itself.  It won't be the same draw that it used to be.

 

5.  Which leads me to Enflame.  I think Enflame should become the cornerstone power of the Sorcery Pool.  A moving damage patch that can be applied to either an ally or a foe is a really cool and amazing power.  I am glad that the power is now functionally better but I think it would be a much bigger draw for the Sorcery Pool if it could become significantly more powerful.  At present I would not use it on any builds.  It just doesn't do that much.  But the thought of being able to weaponize a pet is super exciting to think about.  I don't currently use pets all that much.  Rarely ever even use the Lore Pets.  But putting both a Spirit Ward and an Enflame toggle on a pet and letting that pet run amok would be something I would certainly change a build to accommodate.  That would make Enflame a fun power to use - if Enflame was impactful enough to actually make use of.  The synergy with Spirit Ward would also be cool.  How the power is made more powerful doesn't really matter to me.  It just needs to be better before it can become something that will draw folks to Sorcery and offset the duration reduction of RoP.  The current buffs to Arcane Bolt, Spirit Ward and Enflame are a decent offset to the RoP nerf - but I don't believe the overall effect will be to move the needle much on the popularity of the Sorcery Pool.  To make the Sorcery Pool more appealing and more popular and still reduce the effectiveness of RoP, then I believe going big on Enflame is the answer.   And the game is already filled with wacky and over-powered attacks.  Adding one more is not going to cause the same balance unease that RoP seems to cause.  Basically Enflame should be the Sorcery equivalent of detonating a henchman.  That would be very unique and very appealing to a lot of players I think.   I would be excited to use a beefed up version of Enflame.  I am okay with leaving the fear component on the power when placed on a foe - but only if the power was significantly better in the damage that it caused.  Right now having the foe run around mindlessly and cause minimal damage is just frustrating.  But the big draw for me would still be weaponizing pets.

 

Thank you for all the work re-tooling this power pool.  I think the Sorcery Pool has great potential.  Look forward to all of this going live.

 

This is great feedback! I am thinking that Arcane Bolt could have the circles that appear on the menu bar under the auto powers to show once enough is built up for full effect, or as you said, just have it increase for the number of powers picked in the pool (similar to Fighting Pool). 

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Just now, Jimmy said:

I'd say that [ Arcane Bolt is ] definitely stronger than T1 blasts and only a tad weaker than T2 blasts - without the potential bonus damage. With the bonus damage it easily outclasses T2 blasts.

 

It's good that Arcane Bolt now appears to be a decent attack of its own accord.

 

It's been a while since I looked at other Pool attacks, but I think some are real dogs.  Going on the Mids numbers (which can be wrong with respect to City itself), most aren't too bad for DPE, but all of them are horrible with DPA, such that I never take them except one of Boxing or Kick and that to get to Tough and then Weave.  And only slot it to mule an IO set.  It would be helpful if the Pool Powers at least matched Melee sets T1s like Shadow Punch's DPA.

 

But those Pool attacks are off-topic for Page 2.

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1 hour ago, Jacke said:

 

It's good that Arcane Bolt now appears to be a decent attack of its own accord.

 

It's been a while since I looked at other Pool attacks, but I think some are real dogs.  Going on the Mids numbers (which can be wrong with respect to City itself), most aren't too bad for DPE, but all of them are horrible with DPA, such that I never take them except one of Boxing or Kick and that to get to Tough and then Weave.  And only slot it to mule an IO set.  It would be helpful if the Pool Powers at least matched Melee sets T1s like Shadow Punch's DPA.

 

But those Pool attacks are off-topic for Page 2.

 

I definitely agree that the power pool attacks need a good once over for DPA values. Even the other Origin Power Pools have pretty bad animations. Might be outta scope for this page, (fingers crossed for page 3) but its good at Arcane Bolt got looked at now.

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The recent communication and guidance on Arcane Bolt's design goals in the current build, has been excellent.  Thank you, Jimmy and Faultline.

It has been stated simply, connected to shared goals ('powers being strong independent picks', references to T1/2 relative power), and boundaries have been set ('Damage formulas dictate base damage, bonus damage on powers has to be tied to gimmick mechanics', 'The Arcane Power mechanic exists to allow...').

 

I think I've been convinced that Arcane Bolt is ready to go, balance-wise.  I'd be fine with mild alterations to make Arcane Power function less surprisingly (in exchange for lowered benefit, if required).  It might still be a little more niche than I'd like (my prior input), but now I agree it can stand on its own or be skipped cleanly, based on the character's power gaps.  Its niche-but-good-for-that-niche design properly supports the pool's overall level of power, and fills the need for a thematic Sorcery-y power that feels satisfying when the bonus damage is present.

 

 

When I imagine applying this style of communication to RoP, the collaboration might have gotten boosts and focus with guidance like this:

"On Live, RoP is roughly X% too powerful when combined with IOs and the full suite of powers/slots at high levels. [optional examples to illustrate]"

"Fewer than 5% of characters take it, but this provides little help for tuning, since niche use is where the greatest imbalance occurs."

"Combination with Hybrid Melee is of particular concern, since proactive use allows non-armored chars to circumvent mez for [Q minutes] which breaks [design goal]."

"Input on the mez system as a whole is not up for discussion in this topic.  We [are/aren't] planning to look at it [later time/page]."

"However, we'll try to accelerate a Sorcery Pool revamp, the feedback volume was unexpected, please give us a few days."

"We think the existing mez and res protection values are solid and are key aspects of RoP, and must remain intact."

"We want RoP to be more useful at low levels and less stratifying with highly-IO'd (especially recharge) builds.  Its 600s recharge clashes with that goal."

"Another goal is to strengthen reactive use of RoP, while ensuring that the bulk of power reduction is to its long-duration proactive use cases."

 

We've kinda been left to guess at many of these for days/weeks, and beg for them - which created a lot of extra posting in addition to whatever would be there from the nerf alone.  The above examples are my own guesses from what's been explained or made available to test.  That's why I'm probably wrong about a few.

I hope the takeaway is that collaboration, or collaborative negotiation, is really tough without more of this, essentially, timely *dev* feedback.  So yes, I/we love your feedback!

Please also be assured that I and others with the same goals do not want to antagonistically negotiate with you or other players... I understand it can look that way, but we're trying to "negotiate" with the balance of the system, and push goals/options to become clear and shared.

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6 hours ago, Carnifax said:

As I said earlier in the thread it's currently like the Fortuna Mind Link power. It won't allow Recharge SOs / IOs but frankenslotting Resist/Recharge IOs works.

 

I logged in as my Fire/Nature Corruptor and it was still affected by recharge I'd already got slotted in there (4 Unbreakable Guard and a +5 Recharge IO). That gave me a 62 second recharge on it. 

 

I assume that'll change and I'll have to respec him (again. Sigh). 

It will change, it was confirmed as a bug that it's taking recharge slotting currently earlier in the thread (I think page 2 or 3).

 

 

3 hours ago, Arbegla said:

2) Available to everyone. Regardless of AT, powersets, anything. You can literally take the Sorcery Power Pool on anyone, to STACK with the things you're currently arguing about. You want Indom Will on a controller? You can also have RoP. You're a perma-dom? You can also have RoP. Its a HUGE force multiplier, with NO substantial crash.

<snip>

4) a power that didn't encourage build diversity, as it boiled down to 'Are you having mez problems? Take RoP!' 'Are you a squishy? Take RoP!' 'Are you already defense softcapped, with max recharge, but want more surviveability? Take RoP!' It was a catch all power that was abused repeatedly, and allowed entire aspects of the game to be ignored for ATs that shouldn't have that immunity. And it is available at level 20.

Regarding these points: it is not a "force multiplier", let alone a "HUGE" one. It's a very strong defensive ability that only affects one person. Claiming it is a force multiplier is like stating that Build Up is a force multiplier, so I guess all of the melee builds are force multipliers and should be vulnerable to mez as well? The scarcity at which it is taken is directly contrary to your point about having an option - if you build a character around it - not encouraging build diversity that I have to wonder if you saw that it's taken by, at the highest rate of any AT, 11% of Corruptors. Yes, such a catch-all power that everyone was using. /sarcasm

 

The changes to RoP in this build, which leave its peak performance (to clarify what I mean by this: how strong the boost is at any one point while it's active) alone, reduce its effectiveness as a proactive boost by reducing duration and limiting the uptime to a fixed value, while increasing the effectiveness as a reactive option by effectively recharge-capping the old recharge. Others have suggested a 60/180 duration/recharge ratio, and that might be a good balance point, but only because a fixed recharge means that it's actually a reduced investment in the power as no slotting needed.

 

3 hours ago, Faultline said:

 

Damage formulas dictate base damage, bonus damage on powers has to be tied to gimmick mechanics.

Yes, damage formulas dictate base damage, but...

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

 The Arcane Power mechanic exists to allow Arcane Bolt to be a power that's useful to have in your build due to its situational potential, but not be so reliable and powerful that it can become a core part of your attack chain and displace a primary or secondary power.

...if this is why can't it just have a longer recharge, then why?

 

I mentioned early in the thread I'd rather have a dependable, longer recharge version specifically because it would be useful as part of an attack chain rather than situationally useful. Situationally good powers, because you have to meet the condition, are only as good as the situation comes up. Arcane Bolt's shorter animation time makes it "meh" without the boost, and really good with it, so it might be worthwhile either way depending on your build, but for the most part powers that scream out "I have this really great trick! But I can only do it once!" are either left off of builds or used as mules for set bonuses and/or globals (see: Vengeance, Fallout, single-target rez other powers, and, for me, Rune of Protection - the uptime was just too limited without an entire build based around it).

 

Every power pick on your build is displacing another power you could have taken, and the "primary is better than secondary is better than pool" design principle for the strength of power order is flawed since the actual strength of the powers is based on formulas and AT modifiers - which is why nearly all Defender blast secondary effects are stronger than than a Corruptor's despite being a secondary for one and primary for the other, and the same blast powers will do more damage on a Dominator (from their secondary) than a Corruptor (primary). The "weaker" part on pool attacks was a conscious choice to have long animations and low recharges, which is why they're generally considered bad across the board, but APP/EPP attacks are generally considered good. Even in general utility powers there are exceptions - Widow secondary Vengeance is identical to power pool Vengeance, except that you can't get it until much later in your build.

 

The overall discussion on that is, as has been pointed out earlier in the thread, far beyond the scope of the sorcery changes, but it is relevant in the ask of simply tacking a longer recharge on Arcane Bolt and following the design formulas instead of trying to balance a seemingly-abusable mechanic for a gimmick that makes it better (when active) than the longer recharge would boost it to.

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15 minutes ago, PirateCrew said:

I'd be fine with mild alterations to make Arcane Power function less surprisingly

It's meant to feel surprising! It's magic!

 

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As for the rest of your post, you're fairly spot on with several of your assumptions there. This is an ongoing learning process for everyone, we'll continue to work on communication around changes like this.

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9 minutes ago, siolfir said:

...if this is why can't it just have a longer recharge, then why?

Longer recharge = more damage, per the damage formulas. We don't want it to have a higher base damage as it's already very strong in certain situations (eg: for Controllers with Containment).


You can approach Arcane Bolt as a strong blast with a really long cooldown if you like, and only use it with Arcane Power up - or if you're someone with fewer attacks you can use it to flesh out an attack chain.

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2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

I'd say that it's definitely stronger than T1 blasts and only a tad weaker than T2 blasts - without the potential bonus damage. With the bonus damage it easily outclasses T2 blasts.

I'd argue that the unpredictability of the boost effect makes it significantly less powerful than you're giving it credit for.  If it's being used in an attack chain, and the effect doesn't go off, now you're stuck either 1) effectively using it as another T1 attack, or 2) pausing your attack until another power comes off cooldown to jump start the chain and try to get AB's effect to trigger again.  

 

4 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

It's meant to feel surprising! It's magic!

 

"Surprising" isn't fun; it's annoying.  I like my powers to be reliable.  This iteration of Arcane Bolt is not, and as such, I'll be passing it over.  Honestly, there's nothing about the Sorcery pool revamps that make me excited for the pool.  I solo too much for Spirit Ward, Enflame seems like a pain with the terror effect, taking Fly over Mystic Flight at least puts me in the same pool as Hover for some combat defense, and RoP, well, I hardly found it worth it before the nerf.  It's a shame because thematically I have characters that I'd like to use the pool on, but the set still offers too little benefit over other options.

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19 minutes ago, siolfir said:

Regarding these points: it is not a "force multiplier", let alone a "HUGE" one. It's a very strong defensive ability that only affects one person. Claiming it is a force multiplier is like stating that Build Up is a force multiplier, so I guess all of the melee builds are force multipliers and should be vulnerable to mez as well? The scarcity at which it is taken is directly contrary to your point about having an option - if you build a character around it - not encouraging build diversity that I have to wonder if you saw that it's taken by, at the highest rate of any AT, 11% of Corruptors. Yes, such a catch-all power that everyone was using. /sarcasm

 

The changes to RoP in this build, which leave its peak performance (to clarify what I mean by this: how strong the boost is at any one point while it's active) alone, reduce its effectiveness as a proactive boost by reducing duration and limiting the uptime to a fixed value, while increasing the effectiveness as a reactive option by effectively recharge-capping the old recharge. Others have suggested a 60/180 duration/recharge ratio, and that might be a good balance point, but only because a fixed recharge means that it's actually a reduced investment in the power as no slotting needed.

 

 

Layered mitigation is the best mitigation. That is easily proved by any of the melee ATs stacking defense, resistance, regen, and heals to become unkill-able. Saying that RoP is a force multiplier means that once you hit a certain point (i/e, high recharge, high defense, some combination of the other mitigation things available) RoP multiplies that even further by providing resistance to all damage types, AND coveted Mez Protection, which is usually the last form of mitigation that a normally squishy AT needs.

 

To your point, Build Up, and Aim are actually force multiplers, because they stack, in a multiplicative way with other aspects of the damage formula, giving you near maximum tohit (95%) for their duration and a pretty hefty damage boost as well (which again, stacks with anything else you have).

 

This is the definition of a force multiplier: A capability that, when added to and employed by a combat force, significantly increases the combat potential of that force and thus enhances the probability of successful mission accomplishment. https://www.militaryfactory.com/dictionary/military-terms-defined.asp?term_id=2165

 

The scarcity that it is taken doesn't actually make that point, as it shows that when it is taken, its used as a force multiplier to cover gaps in the characters. Considering Corruptors also get access to 4 secondaries that provide Mez protection (Traps, Sonic, FF, Elec) to themselves, out of 16 secondaries, that means that 25% of Corruptors already have Mez Protection. RoP gives another 11% of them access to it.

 

RoP will more than likely change to a 60/180 power, retaining the 33% uptime, and lasting as long as an inspiration, when used proactively, or reactively. Its still a massive force multiplier, and with these changes, it'll have better low-mid tier performance, and slightly less high-end performance.

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1 minute ago, Jimmy said:

Longer recharge = more damage, per the damage formulas. We don't want it to have a higher base damage as it's already very strong in certain situations (eg: for Controllers with Containment).


You can approach Arcane Bolt as a strong blast with a really long cooldown if you like, and only use it with Arcane Power up - or if you're someone with fewer attacks you can use it to flesh out an attack chain.

My concern is that if you only use it with Arcane Power up the cooldown might not be as long as you (the devs) expect based on some feedback about how frequently Arcane Power is triggering, meaning that it's already in the "too strong" category while it's up in those exact same situations, and that reducing the random chance of Arcane Power triggering as a balancing act is likely going to be difficult if it continues to trigger off of any power activation because of how spammable some powers are compared to others.

 

Also, haven't checked the formulas again but is there an endurance penalty in play for pool powers? I'm not in a position to log on currently but CoD2 shows the endurance cost at 9.62 for a 7 second recharge instead of 7.696 (comparing to a similar power like Hydro Blast, which doesn't follow the Defiance 2.0 standardized T1/T2 1/1.67 4/8 animation and recharge). I was specifically asking about a T3 recharge (10 seconds) in my original post because they aren't standardized for animation time, but a 1.73 second animation would be worse than most blast set tier 2 powers even with a matching 8 second recharge because the standard animation is 1.67 seconds for the same damage.

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19 minutes ago, Arbegla said:

This is the definition of a force multiplier: A capability that, when added to and employed by a combat force, significantly increases the combat potential of that force and thus enhances the probability of successful mission accomplishment. https://www.militaryfactory.com/dictionary/military-terms-defined.asp?term_id=2165

I will admit, using the strict definition, it falls into that category. I will also say that if you are strictly using that definition, there are so few powers that are not force multipliers in this game that the term loses its meaning, thus I was referring to the colloquial definition of "greatly assisting your team's [combat] potential" as opposed to "greatly assisting yourself." Because being "force multipliers" is the oft-stated balancing mantra about why squishies aren't supposed to get any mez protection, and pretty much every power in an armor set counts when you're talking about your own combat potential.

 

Edit: The second part of the paragraph you responded to wasn't about it being a force multipler or not, it was about your listed point #4, where you stated that "it boiled down to 'Are you having mez problems? Take RoP!' 'Are you a squishy? Take RoP!' 'Are you already defense softcapped, with max recharge, but want more surviveability? Take RoP!'" and "it was a catch all power that was abused repeatedly, and allowed entire aspects of the game to be ignored for ATs that shouldn't have that immunity." Clearly it was not as widely-spread and abused as you contend. But that could have been more clearly worded that I was separating which point I was addressing, since they were both in the same paragraph.

Edited by siolfir
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