Farming and marketing. Farmketing.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Ok, so recently I went down the dual-boxing rabbit hole and I've been using a fire farmer to PL a few of my alts.  I've never spent much time farming for inf before, so I figured I'm at the point in the pandemic that I check it out and see what the buzz is all about.

 

First of all, I'm clearly doing it wrong.  I'm running @brigg's Phantastic Phire Pharm #125 at 4/8 with my 50 spines/fire/fire brute (I really hate Spines but boy does it get the job done) with no xp.  I have a door sitter in tow on regular xp/inf (no xp boosters -- I wanted to see how long it would take).  Anyway, my 50 seems to be consistently pulling in about 3.4mm per mission, or 17mm for all five.  That doesn't seem to jibe with some of the number I've seen bandied about in terms of inf/hour.  I'm not setting any speed records, but I find it hard to believe that people are running a full circuit in 12-15 minutes?  I'm wondering if I have a setting wrong.

 

Second, I was sure that there would be more wiggle room in order for strong marketing to make some serious incremental income.  But so far (only about 5 circuits so far), I'm getting a lot fewer IO recipes than I would like -- like 5-10 per run.  Yes, the purples and PvPs are nice, but the yellows and the oranges are seeming like a waste of time, market-wise.  They cost almost half a million to craft, and level 50 is a terrible spot to get good value.

 

Anyone with more direct experience want to chime in?  Paging @Ukase!

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Yomo Kimyata
dyslexic numbers

[Ura Hero]

This is why I gave up farming except to PL a toon that I don't want to grind.  There is just easier influence to be made elsewhere.  I've tried it almost every way and it's just inefficient no matter how you slice it assuming that you already know how to run the market.

 

I'll still do it once in a while just to make sure things haven't changed, but I'd lot rather spend my time buying and selling for ten minutes a day and make 10xx the profit.

[Coyotedancer]

17m for your 50 on a map with two characters on the team sounds about right...

 

Your farmer would average a little more themselves if they were solo, but I've found taking a second fifty from your alt account in with you (Like I tend to run Ossuni and Barn Cat-) gives better returns over-all, since they'd get about that 17m each. 

 

Once upon a time, farming was more profitable, and that may be the era of the numbers you're remembering... Repeated nerfs over the last two years have reduced returns quite a lot. Most of us who still do it as active farmers (rather than AFKs-) aren't really in it for the INF, I suspect. Marketeering is a better return for less investment. We just still do it to level alts or because it's sort-of a zen thing that we enjoy.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Coyotedancer

[Andreah]

I'm glad I don't farm, this sounds both tedious and a poor return per hour. 

 

But if it's relaxing to someone else; play the way you enjoy playing.

 

Does it ever make sense to disable lower color recipes? E.g., to make more space for the better ones? Or is stopping now and then to offload a normal part of the process?

[Apparition]

Yeah.  Farming is nowhere near as profitable as it was a year and a half ago.  I still do it because I can't be bothered to play the market.

[Vea]

With a well slotted Rad/Fire brute with T4 incarnates a clear time of around 3:30 is normal for me, say 4 mins in total to zone in and out and restock on insps. Using your numbers and my times that's 850k inf/min before drops. Note this would have been doubled before the level 49 farming nerf. I've disabled resurrect and protection insps and use combine to red insps macros. The best time i've done the 125 arc is on an ice/fire blaster and that was around the 2:30 mark but is inconsistent and requires concentration.

Regards to Uncommon/Rare crafting - will you make more than 850k/min by crafting that enhancement? Probs not.

From what I do and what i've seen others do is "AFK farm" which is probably twice or three times as slow but can be done as long as you can reset every 10 mins or so. All I do is have my settings to AVs enabled and follow the helper with auto burn. Raking in 10-20m an hour while you are at work (or playing on an alt) adds up overtime.

 

Inf from farming is mainly just a side effect PLing/AFK Farming. Unsure what your numbers for inf/min for marketing - mine were around ~5-10m inf/min depending how saturated the market was/is (granted this was a year ago..) - If you follow the basic craft + convert guide i'm sure you can beat 850k inf/min with ease but depends on what your poison is, for me personally i'd rather use powers and kill mobs to get inf than drag and drop enhancements.

[Monty Haull]

I multibox x3.  2 spine fire and 1 rad fire.  I run the comicon asteroid map.  If I actively play the map I can clear all 5 parts in about 20 minutes.  I get around 30m total.  I usually get 2 or 3 PVP/VR recipes and other stuff.  So, call it 60m per run total.  That's 180m per hour.  

 

I can also just do AFK and do other stuff.  Clearing is, if course, slower.

 

I just started recently to only run two chars for afk farming and playing the main.  

 

[Black_Assassin]

1 hour ago, Vea said:

"850k inf/min before drops"

 

I also get about the same rate for farming. 

 

@Yomo Kimyata I assume people saying they get more must be including inf gained from sales from drops. Either that or they are going full hardcore farm mode, I just cannot sustain that concentration for long 😛

[AboveTheChemist]

Last summer I put together some farming inf numbers in this post, in an attempt to quantify the impact of the then-recent farming nerf. My approach included some opportunistic marketing so I think those numbers might be relevant to this discussion. I didn't get into inf/time in that post, but I mentioned my times a few posts down.

[Ohsirus]

There's also no benefit in disabling XP. You're only robbing yourself of EMP Merits that if you choose to level another 50 on the account you could transfer them to, or if HC makes changes to the system you could use them for something else. 

[Apparition]

40 minutes ago, Ohsirus said:

There's also no benefit in disabling XP. You're only robbing yourself of EMP Merits that if you choose to level another 50 on the account you could transfer them to, or if HC makes changes to the system you could use them for something else. 

 

I generally disable XP once a character reaches veteran level 100.  You get no rewards beyond that point and it’s a good, round number.

[Ukase]

@Yomo Kimyata I sent you a DM for a look behind the Ukase farmarketing curtain. Some things are not for the general public to view, I hope all will understand. 

[Coyotedancer]

12 hours ago, Andreah said:

I'm glad I don't farm, this sounds both tedious and a poor return per hour. 

 

But if it's relaxing to someone else; play the way you enjoy playing.

 

Does it ever make sense to disable lower color recipes? E.g., to make more space for the better ones? Or is stopping now and then to offload a normal part of the process?

 

I'd say keep the common recipe drops on. Vendoring them adds a bit to your returns, Not a fortune, mind, but a few more million is a few more million.

[Ukase]

12 hours ago, Andreah said:

I'm glad I don't farm, this sounds both tedious and a poor return per hour. 

 

But if it's relaxing to someone else; play the way you enjoy playing.

 

Does it ever make sense to disable lower color recipes? E.g., to make more space for the better ones? Or is stopping now and then to offload a normal part of the process?

I get about 3 to 1 common to all other categories. In an hour of afk, I'll get roughly 30 of the commons recipe drops. That's about 3M I wouldn't otherwise get. 
The only way I turn those off, is on a badge character looking for rejection badges. If you're crafting/selling between maps, you'll never need the space. 

For those farmers that don't craft, I still don't think it's a good idea. Every bit helps. Seems crazy to turn 'em off. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

Thank you everyone!  Here’s what I’ve learned so far:

 

1.  I’m not far off with my farming numbers.  People seem to report with inf from drops as well.  Also (and I did figure this out on my own too) you get the same inf at 50 with or without spending turned off.

 

2.  Some people are much faster than others!
 

Keep it coming!

[Yomo Kimyata]

19 hours ago, Vea said:

Inf from farming is mainly just a side effect PLing/AFK Farming. Unsure what your numbers for inf/min for marketing - mine were around ~5-10m inf/min depending how saturated the market was/is (granted this was a year ago..) - If you follow the basic craft + convert guide i'm sure you can beat 850k inf/min with ease but depends on what your poison is, for me personally i'd rather use powers and kill mobs to get inf than drag and drop enhancements.

 

It's a little bit apples to oranges, since you can farm for ten hours and get ten times your hourly rate, but marketing requires both time spent and time passed.

 

But I think it's fair to say that yes, I can easily beat 51mm profit for 60 minutes time spent.

[The_Warpact]

I dual afk farm, the inf is ok but I get the drops which helps in marketing and alts. While it is slow sometimes I also PL which is inf wise ok but I look at it as double the chance for drops.

 

I have 2 VGs with full enhancement bins.

I have those bins separated, so pvp IOs, purps, etc in each one. IOs that I wouldn't commonly use in builds if profitable are crafted and sold.

 

I also have an alt that plays the ATO market, specifically attuned which really helps, and his VG has bins for catalysts, unslotters, etc to get the attuned ATO that I need to sell. 

 

Doing this method I constantly gain and can either fully slot out or outright buy whatever I need to kit an alt out. With both farms and marketeer filling that lost revenue back up.

Each alt has anywhere from 200 mill to 650 mill on them. I of course afk farm everyday when I get off work and all day Sat/Sun except evenings when I do TF/SF for merits or Hami Os, merits get turned into Winter IOs for the pot or profit.

 

 

[SuperPlyx]

Personally I prefer Big Mobs "Road Tunnel" map 19823 so my numbers are skewered for that map.

 

With a Rad/Fire Brute I average a clear time of 8 minutes per map with an alt tank on follow.

Average 6 million inf on each account after vending. So 12 million per 8 minute mission.

Solo without the tank I get 7 million per mission, so the overall gain is better with the second account.

 

Of note:

This is without using Inspirations.

I vend all enhancements, all white and yellow recipes and all but rare salvage. 

 

[EmperorSteele]

*raises hand*

 

I have a question!

 

What's the Inf difference for an even-level foe vs a +4 one? Because I'm... not great at farming. Takes a solid 15+ minutes to clear a +4 space map compared to about 10 minutes for playing at even-con. And if the arc is 5 missions, then finishing up takes nealy a half hour longer at +4, and doesn't really seem worth the time. I'm not sure if fighting at +4 is worth it, considering levels don't affect drops, just inf gain.

 

Any insights?

[iBot]

@EmperorSteele your insight there is correct.  Fighting +4 gives a boost to xp and inf however if it takes you 4x the amount of time to kill that +4 versus an even con then you aren't really gaining anything by doing it.  This gets more into efficiency then anything else.  Personally I shoot for the highest difficulty I can run within a reasonable amount of time.  Sometimes that is 4/8 other times it is barely 0/2.  The drops are really the key to boosting your farming which is why the current thoughts are for best results pull the slot machine lever as often as possible and then sell everything that you don't personally use.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I'm sure anyone with experience in making AE missions as well as anyone who was paying more attention than me can better quantify this, but I don't believe the rewards scale linearly with the x, much less with the +.  Anecdotally, a bit back I ran back to back council paper missions, one at +0/x1 and one at +4/x8.  I vendored everything and ended up with about 1.3mm and about 1.7mm respectively.  Very small sample set, I admit.  But when looking at spawn sizes, I know that x1 gets you 3 minions or a minion and a lt.  I'm not sure offhand what x8 gets you, but it's sure not 24 minions.

[iBot]

x2 is usually 2-4 minions and an LT.

x4 is usually 4-6 minions, LT, and maybe a boss or second LT

x8 is usually 6-8 minions, 2 LT, and a boss or 2.  Really depends on the mob type since a few of them spawn extra minions or such like CoT or Lost.

 

It really is just a matter of what you kill fastest.  I've noticed that going up in level isn't really as much of a gain as it is handling larger spawn sizes unless I'm going for XP over inf.  Then higher level is better.  And I always vendor 95+% of what drops since I don't like playing converter roulette but I know a few that do which really boosts the inf gain for the same mission + a bit of time to convert and market.  Getting really lucky and changing a yellow to a high demand orange is almost worth it if you are patient and have converters to burn through.

 

AE is nice because you always know what you are getting in terms of map/spawns.  Papers are better if XP is the goal.  I think drop/inf are about the same between them though missions give slightly more because of end of mission bonus.  And don't neglect merits either.  A bunch of tip missions and the alignment mission nets a good number of merits for minimal investment.  Those can be very lucrative for converters or PVP recipes.  Also, always run a Market Crash at 40.  It is a free purple recipe first time.  And all those are iBot's tips for riches 😁 though I probably borrowed a few from @Yomo Kimyata

Edited April 13, 2021 by iBot
forgot to increase # of minions

[Ukase]

4 hours ago, iBot said:

And don't neglect merits either.  A bunch of tip missions and the alignment mission nets a good number of merits for minimal investment.  Those can be very lucrative for converters or PVP recipes.  Also, always run a Market Crash at 40.  It is a free purple recipe first time.  And all those are iBot's tips for riches 😁 though I probably borrowed a few from @Yomo Kimyata

So...I would encourage anyone reading this part to do some math. Or perhaps my reading comprehension needs work.  Most anyone who's ever asked the question, "What do I do with reward merits?" has heard the stock reply. 

A. "Build a bridge out of them!"
B. "Throw them into a pond!"

C. "Go to a merit vendor, and type /ah into your chat bar. Look under Salvage, then Special. 
      Within the top 6 choices are Enhancement Booster, Catalyst, Converter and Unslotter. See what they are selling for. Then check the merit vendor again and see what the exchange rate 

       is. Do the math and see which nets you the most money." 


Short rebuttal is - it would be incredibly foolish to use merits for a pvp recipe. Converters are cheap, if not free! Even if you sold 300 converters (what 100 reward merits would get you from the merit vendor) for 50k each, you'd still have 15M. You can easily buy 4 pvp recipes with that. At 70k, which is pretty much the going rate, you'll get 21M. 
Anyone that tells you otherwise doesn't like math, or doesn't know math, or perhaps they are just in a hurry and don't care to bid creep and wait a few minutes for a sale to go through. Love people like that, because that's more market for me. 

Hopefully, I misunderstood, and made some baseless assumption. If not - it's a heinous thing to see such a thing written in the market forum. 
 

[Crysis]

Since last years exemplaring nerf, most influence farming shifted to AFK farming running multiple accounts at once.  I generally do so only while I’m at work using my ShadowPC account and operating the game sessions from my iPhone.  Maybe 20-25 mins per run (sometimes shorter if I’m sitting at my desk and can more frequently check into the AFK fleet), times multiple accounts, and a typical 8 hour session of not really playing adds up daily.  I don’t vend anything during the day other than during my lunch break.  Total time needed to exit/reset the various farmers per run is seconds so not like I’m really focused.

 

I still “active farm” but any more it’s just to quickly PL an alt up to level 27-32 or so.  27 in about 15 mins, 32 in about 25 mins.  

[Andreah]

7 hours ago, Ukase said:

Short rebuttal is - it would be incredibly foolish to use merits for a pvp recipe. Converters are cheap, if not free! Even if you sold 300 converters (what 100 reward merits would get you from the merit vendor) for 50k each, you'd still have 15M. You can easily buy 4 pvp recipes with that. At 70k, which is pretty much the going rate, you'll get 21M.

I just want to emphasize this. I tell people in /general, in /help, in my global chats, and in my SG discord DON'T SPEND 100 MERITS ON ANYTHING WORTH LESS THAN 20 MILLION. And they still do.

 

I wonder about the time efficiency of the converter game on the usual grab-bag of recipes drops from say, an hour of farming. Everything we do has opportunity cost (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost) associated with it. For example, the time you spend getting the right salvage, inventing the recipes, and up-converting to valuable IO's could have been spent running the next farm. Surely there's a large luck component, but that tends to average out if this is something one does often. Has anyone collected data on this?

 

Most of the farm advertisements I see seem to be oriented around faster leveling than inf gain, but a couple of people I know have said on occasion they farm now and then when they need Inf. It leads me to wonder if they're doing it efficiently, or if they might do better taking Yomo up the the signature offer, or accepting inf/enhancements/advice from me.  Your friendly neighborhood Ebil Marketeer can help! Simple advice that saves YOU Millions! Don't Delay!  Act Now!  Call 1-555-CRA-ZY88!  Marketeers are standing by!