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A little respect for Back Alley Brawler


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Would it be possible to move Back Alley Brawler somewhere more useful that sticking him on the backside of Atlas?  Hasn't he suffered enough...doesn't he deserve better...don't you think he'd like a bigger role in shaping the heroes of tomorrow? 

How about  inside the AP AE?  I'm just guessing, so bear with me, but I bet there are more times that someone in AE wished there was a trainer there than out back in the warehouse district....just a hunch. 😉 

Sure, sure Ms. Liberty is right down the street in front of City Hall, but she signed up for that spot.  Poor BABs was dislocated from Galaxy...did anyone ask him if he wanted to get stuck in a never used park waiting for some ne'er do well to finally come his way.  I'm guessing not.

Don't like the AE idea?  How about Ouroboros then?  Sure the Menders might have a problem with it, but no one there is doing any training and it's not like they kicked out Prometheus or Luna and they aren't Menders.  It'd also make it easy for BABs to hit the echo teleporters and go visit Galaxy when the memories are too much.

I've taken the liberty of enlisting Front Street Fighter to show a couple of out of the way places that BABs might like.

What say you, friends?  Can we do right by this hero who has already lost so much?

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It's always seemed weird to me that Ms Lib is now in two places at once, while poor BAB is stuck out in the boonies.  Why not let him be the main Atlas trainer?  Or, if seeing Ms Lib on entering Paragon for the first time is too iconic to change, let BAB launch the TF instead.

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I think he should get a proper retirement arc, since the Deadlock story didn't have a conclusion.  Then he can go where he likes, put his feet up somewhere, and Marauder can take his spot in the back end of Atlas, since he has to work his way into good graces anyway.

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Darkest Before Dawn: Part Two (Arc id 30210) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part Three (Arc id 30560) |

 Bridge of Forever ( Arc id 36642)* | The Cassini Division (Arc id 37104)* | The House of Gaunt Saints (Arc id 37489)*The Spark of the Blind (Arc id 40403)* | Damnatio Memoriae (Arc id 41140)* The Eve of War (Arc id 41583)*

I Sing of Arms and the Man (Arc id 42617)* | Three Sisters (Arc id 43013)*

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16 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

It's always seemed weird to me that Ms Lib is now in two places at once, while poor BAB is stuck out in the boonies.  Why not let him be the main Atlas trainer?  Or, if seeing Ms Lib on entering Paragon for the first time is too iconic to change, let BAB launch the TF instead.

Clearly, Ms Liberty is NOT two places at once. 

One or both of them is a Nemesis Automaton.

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5 minutes ago, MTeague said:

Clearly, Ms Liberty is NOT two places at once. 

One or both of them is a Nemesis Automaton.

She's in three if you count Trident base!  Four on Valentine's Day!

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AE SFMA Arcs: The Meteors (Arc id 42079)Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part One. (Arc id 26756) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Two. (Arc id 26952) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Three. (Arc id 27233) Darker Deeds: Part One (Arc id 28374) | Darker Deeds: Part Two. (Arc id 28536) | Darker Deeds: Part Three. (Arc id 29252) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part One (Arc id 29891) |

Darkest Before Dawn: Part Two (Arc id 30210) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part Three (Arc id 30560) |

 Bridge of Forever ( Arc id 36642)* | The Cassini Division (Arc id 37104)* | The House of Gaunt Saints (Arc id 37489)*The Spark of the Blind (Arc id 40403)* | Damnatio Memoriae (Arc id 41140)* The Eve of War (Arc id 41583)*

I Sing of Arms and the Man (Arc id 42617)* | Three Sisters (Arc id 43013)*

(*Pre War Praetorian Loyalist. * Pre War Praetorian Resistance.. * Pre ITF Cimerora. * Post ITF Cimerora. Dev Choice/Hall of Fame )

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Heck they can even put him on top of Atlas. More people go up there than where he's at right now. I didn't even know he was over there until last Halloween. Has he been there since Galaxy City was destroyed  on live ?

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7 minutes ago, RCU7115 said:

Heck they can even put him on top of Atlas. More people go up there than where he's at right now. I didn't even know he was over there until last Halloween. Has he been there since Galaxy City was destroyed  on live ?

Pretty much. Apart from when the model gets swapped out as a Hallowe'en costume thing, even though it's still him.

AE SFMA Arcs: The Meteors (Arc id 42079)Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part One. (Arc id 26756) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Two. (Arc id 26952) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Three. (Arc id 27233) Darker Deeds: Part One (Arc id 28374) | Darker Deeds: Part Two. (Arc id 28536) | Darker Deeds: Part Three. (Arc id 29252) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part One (Arc id 29891) |

Darkest Before Dawn: Part Two (Arc id 30210) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part Three (Arc id 30560) |

 Bridge of Forever ( Arc id 36642)* | The Cassini Division (Arc id 37104)* | The House of Gaunt Saints (Arc id 37489)*The Spark of the Blind (Arc id 40403)* | Damnatio Memoriae (Arc id 41140)* The Eve of War (Arc id 41583)*

I Sing of Arms and the Man (Arc id 42617)* | Three Sisters (Arc id 43013)*

(*Pre War Praetorian Loyalist. * Pre War Praetorian Resistance.. * Pre ITF Cimerora. * Post ITF Cimerora. Dev Choice/Hall of Fame )

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2 hours ago, Supertanker said:

BAB's in a handy spot for leveling up when you're doing the "Save Atlas Park" early level arc.

Granted that is a convenient, if rarely used spot.  It would be more convenient if they put an Enhancement vendor over there.  Maybe take one from the bottom level of City Hall.  I see no reason for two in that level.

 

That said, BAB's is too important a character in the lore to relegate him to a corner, literally.    I'd personally prefer a more prominent spot for him, like replacing the Vanguard generic trainer in RWZ.  He was one of the Surviving Eight from the Rikti War, after all.  Makes sense to have him there. 

 

If for some reason that doesn't work, like say some lore stating a conflict between BAB and Vanguard, then let him take over Castle's position in Peregrine Island, and move Castle to RWZ or somewhere else where there's not currently a trainer.   Hazard zones like Crey's Folly or Terra Volta might work.  If we can put Foreshadow in the Hollows and Mirror Spirit in Faultline, Castle could work in a Hazard Zone as well. 

 

EDIT:  I was just reminded that BAB is the only member of the Surviving Eight who has not served as a Task Force contact.  It would take a lot of work, but a new task force with BAB as the issuing agent would be quite satisfying for him. 

 

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Stick him in Khallisti and get rid of Fusionette.

 

She was slowly becoming the Sylvanas of this game thanks to a certain obsessive dev back on Live and it'd be great if we could put that chapter behind us while also giving BaBs the respect he deserves.

 

Edited by Tyrannical
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3 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

It's always seemed weird to me that Ms Lib is now in two places at once, while poor BAB is stuck out in the boonies.  Why not let him be the main Atlas trainer?  Or, if seeing Ms Lib on entering Paragon for the first time is too iconic to change, let BAB launch the TF instead.

 

Fun tidbit: He originally WAS going to be the contact for the TF after WWD, but the Devs decided it would be more thematically fitting for Recluse's Niece to spearhead the TF. They just hand-waved her being in two places at once. Atlas is where she is when you're starting your career as a hero and you need her help to learn the ropes. Once you're a high-level hero who's come into their own and you're ready to save the world, SHE now needs YOUR help. It's quite a fitting bookend-esque situation... if only she wasn't literally in two places at once.

Also, BaBs DOES serve a purpose in that alley: If you do the "new" AP arcs, you end up right in front of him after one of the big missions, where you are almost certainly going to need to level up. And this way, you don't have to run all the way back to Ms. Liberty, just to run all the way back to Argosy Industrial for the next mission!

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2 minutes ago, GM Impervium said:

Also, BaBs DOES serve a purpose in that alley: If you do the "new" AP arcs, you end up right in front of him after one of the big missions, where you are almost certainly going to need to level up. And this way, you don't have to run all the way back to Ms. Liberty, just to run all the way back to Argosy Industrial for the next mission!

Yeah, that's kinda why I like him there 😄 But IF the Deadlock story were wrapped up, surely his alter ego could hang around there?  BaBs could head over to PD and hang with War Witch and enjoy the retirement.

AE SFMA Arcs: The Meteors (Arc id 42079)Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part One. (Arc id 26756) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Two. (Arc id 26952) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Three. (Arc id 27233) Darker Deeds: Part One (Arc id 28374) | Darker Deeds: Part Two. (Arc id 28536) | Darker Deeds: Part Three. (Arc id 29252) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part One (Arc id 29891) |

Darkest Before Dawn: Part Two (Arc id 30210) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part Three (Arc id 30560) |

 Bridge of Forever ( Arc id 36642)* | The Cassini Division (Arc id 37104)* | The House of Gaunt Saints (Arc id 37489)*The Spark of the Blind (Arc id 40403)* | Damnatio Memoriae (Arc id 41140)* The Eve of War (Arc id 41583)*

I Sing of Arms and the Man (Arc id 42617)* | Three Sisters (Arc id 43013)*

(*Pre War Praetorian Loyalist. * Pre War Praetorian Resistance.. * Pre ITF Cimerora. * Post ITF Cimerora. Dev Choice/Hall of Fame )

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Instead of moving him to a better spot, make his spot better. Dress it up a bit. Add a vendor or two, a mission contact, a few benches, maybe a street performer. How about a longbow flier with a couple good destination? How about some reporters asking him questions? He's more famous and photogenic than those nobodies they crowd around by city hall.

 

Be imaginative. His spot has potential, it's just unrealized right now.

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Just restore old Galaxy City zone, problem solved.  He's back where he belongs - in the middle of Galaxy City.  I might actually have a reason to skip  DFB on new characters if

this zone was returned.

 

Faultline got rebuilt, at least partially, why not GC?

 

 

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On 4/10/2021 at 9:46 PM, Tyrannical said:

Stick him in Khallisti and get rid of Fusionette.

 

She was slowly becoming the Sylvanas of this game thanks to a certain obsessive dev back on Live and it'd be great if we could put that chapter behind us while also giving BaBs the respect he deserves.

 

 

 

Is this an obscure Dragonlance reference?

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2 hours ago, Turric said:

Is this an obscure Dragonlance reference?

 

Unfortunately not.

 

Sylvanas is a WoW character who became increasingly present in the game, much to the chagrin of others, all because a writer became quite infatuated with her.

 

And that same problem was slowly creeping into CoH in regards to Fusionette.

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If Galaxy were to be realistically returned that would have some knock on effects.  (1) narratively it would have to be smaller than original Galaxy, and contain some destruction/ruins. (2) the section of Galaxy we see in the tutorial is of a higher quality design than OG Galaxy, however that is not a complete map, and I don't mean it just has sections, it actually is several floating unconnected bits rather than a single block of map.  So there's a fair bit of work there. The section of Galaxy with the crater from the Graves/Twinshot arc IS built into OG Galaxy, so that's a discrepancy too that would need to be accounted for as textures don't match.  So a lot of work there actually. (3) the Galaxy tutorial itself would need to be removed, missing meeting the fabulous Blue Spectrum, (though frankly I'd just kill the voice over right now actually), and a swath of NPCs and people across Atlas Plaza would need to be reassigned, the Matthew Habashy arc would have to be removed...there's a big domino effect going on there to do all that.

 

Now, I'm not saying it should not be done, it could be and could lead to massive new things/opportunities, but it most definitely isn't as easy as just "turning Galaxy City back on", and that quite frankly is NOT going to happen, since one of the things done literally last November was the removal of the Galaxy City Gate in Kings Row and the erection of a statue to Galaxy Girl at that very spot.

 

On a quieter note, I'm simply baffled as to why a version of BAB wasn't simply left on his spot in the Echo.  Echo Atlas still has its Ms. Liberty. And for old time fun I do sometimes take a lowbie into Galaxy City and go street sweeping there, but I can't level there.  Bah.

 

 

 

 

AE SFMA Arcs: The Meteors (Arc id 42079)Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part One. (Arc id 26756) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Two. (Arc id 26952) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Three. (Arc id 27233) Darker Deeds: Part One (Arc id 28374) | Darker Deeds: Part Two. (Arc id 28536) | Darker Deeds: Part Three. (Arc id 29252) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part One (Arc id 29891) |

Darkest Before Dawn: Part Two (Arc id 30210) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part Three (Arc id 30560) |

 Bridge of Forever ( Arc id 36642)* | The Cassini Division (Arc id 37104)* | The House of Gaunt Saints (Arc id 37489)*The Spark of the Blind (Arc id 40403)* | Damnatio Memoriae (Arc id 41140)* The Eve of War (Arc id 41583)*

I Sing of Arms and the Man (Arc id 42617)* | Three Sisters (Arc id 43013)*

(*Pre War Praetorian Loyalist. * Pre War Praetorian Resistance.. * Pre ITF Cimerora. * Post ITF Cimerora. Dev Choice/Hall of Fame )

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1 hour ago, Tyrannical said:

 

Unfortunately not.

 

Sylvanas is a WoW character who became increasingly present in the game, much to the chagrin of others, all because a writer became quite infatuated with her.

 

And that same problem was slowly creeping into CoH in regards to Fusionette.

 

 

Yeah, I realized my mistake a little bit ago when I googled it because it was nagging me. The Dragonlance character was Silvara who was a dragon shapechanged into an elf woman. I am not familiar with WoW stuff, but I did recognize the pictures of Sylvanus Windrunner from advertisements or something. My fault.

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51 minutes ago, Turric said:

 

 

Yeah, I realized my mistake a little bit ago when I googled it because it was nagging me. The Dragonlance character was Silvara who was a dragon shapechanged into an elf woman. I am not familiar with WoW stuff, but I did recognize the pictures of Sylvanus Windrunner from advertisements or something. My fault.

 

No need to apologise! We all have goofball moments.

 

But you raise a good point, all these elf names sound the same 😅

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http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes5/sylvan_intro.shtml

Sorry.  Had to.

 

 

But back to Back (Alley Brawler), yeah.  It would be nice to see him elevated a little.  He's a pretty significant character in the lore, and unless it's been decided that he's looking to retire sitting out back in Argosy, then it might be worthwhile to have some more character development for him.  He's one of the few signature characters I actually care about Blueside.

 

Edited by TemporalVileTerror
Followed my own advice about the risk of infection from fandom.
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BAB needs resolution to that Deadlock story at the least!

AE SFMA Arcs: The Meteors (Arc id 42079)Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part One. (Arc id 26756) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Two. (Arc id 26952) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Three. (Arc id 27233) Darker Deeds: Part One (Arc id 28374) | Darker Deeds: Part Two. (Arc id 28536) | Darker Deeds: Part Three. (Arc id 29252) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part One (Arc id 29891) |

Darkest Before Dawn: Part Two (Arc id 30210) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part Three (Arc id 30560) |

 Bridge of Forever ( Arc id 36642)* | The Cassini Division (Arc id 37104)* | The House of Gaunt Saints (Arc id 37489)*The Spark of the Blind (Arc id 40403)* | Damnatio Memoriae (Arc id 41140)* The Eve of War (Arc id 41583)*

I Sing of Arms and the Man (Arc id 42617)* | Three Sisters (Arc id 43013)*

(*Pre War Praetorian Loyalist. * Pre War Praetorian Resistance.. * Pre ITF Cimerora. * Post ITF Cimerora. Dev Choice/Hall of Fame )

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Personally I always saw the deadlock thing as a hint that BAB would basically get a “respec” from invul/energy melee to the more thematically appropriate willpower and street justice. And maybe a bit of a new look to really distinguish him from Marauder.

 

Edit: I even have a bit of a mockup of how I think he could look updated. I might have gone a bit wild, but I sort of liked the idea of his age being shown/worn proudly (now has a relatively bigger beard, clear greying, more-dated looking sunglasses), and then gave him a leather jacket to make him look a little more 'civil' or something compared to Marauder being a 'barbarian' type. The rest admittedly, is just uses more recent 'versions' of the pieces he already wears. Club jeans for a proper denim look, motorcycle boots for stomping people and riding a hog, and a cybertech tanktop that shows off those hard earned muscles. Probably could stand to have his old gloves those. Or something close to them.

 

screenshot_210412-15-46-08.thumb.jpg.26c387daf84e049e66ac748c0a9f08eb.jpg

Edited by Sakura Tenshi
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