issue 27 Patch Notes for April 20th, 2021 - Issue 27, Page 2

[arcane]

11 minutes ago, gamingglen said:

 

Broken?  How?   

 

Devs haven't given a reason because there's no good reason.  

 

Are you prepared to accept their answer if they give you one like they did with the RoP change? It seemed to me that giving a detailed justification did nothing to sate the angry mob on that one, so it could be that such things could justifiably be seen as a bit of a waste of time for a limited volunteer team.

[Ukase]

Siren's call map is still not properly aligned. I thought the notes said this was fixed. Is this not considered a geometry error?

[Glacier Peak]

32 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Siren's call map is still not properly aligned. I thought the notes said this was fixed. Is this not considered a geometry error?

That's from using an outdated map overlay. The real in-game map is correct.

 

Edit: oh and the actual geometry error is still present

Edited April 23, 2021 by Glacier Peak

[Ukase]

33 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

That's from using an outdated map overlay. The real in-game map is correct.

 

Edit: oh and the actual geometry error is still present

No, my version of Vidiot maps is the latest version. But, in the sense that the HC devs moved the map to align with Paragon City/Rogue Isles maps, in that context, I suppose it's the map overlay that's borked, and not the in-game map. For some reason, I thought the devs were going to switch it back so it would make more sense to the large portion of us that use vidiotmaps, and those that don't really wouldn't know the difference anyway. My mistake. 

I've downloaded a new siren's map overlay and once I filter through the dozen pages in that thread to ensure I've got the best copy of it, I'll make the switch. 
 

[lemming]

So far, my experiences:

• Ugh.  So many respecs to do to take advantage of the changes...  (I'll live)
• Love the flight changes that I've played with.
• My one character with TP as a teleporter is a great improvement, and I'll respec a couple other characters into that
• Fast Snipe change in range.  I'm ok with this.  Yea, it's a negative, but fast snipe was a nice thing when added, now it's just a shorter range.  Might get me to not accidently shoot a mob far away...
• Love the exploration tips, even if I rampaged in the underground for a bit before noting, no exploration tips there.
• Stealth is a bit buggy, so I'll wait for full reaction until after the bugfix.   Do wish I had a better indication if stealth was suppressed. May have to put stealth range into my monitored stats block
• Thumbtack command is a very nice add

Edited April 23, 2021 by lemming
oh yea

[WindDemon21]

On 4/20/2021 at 5:39 PM, Bopper said:

Enhanced, you're looking at providing ~19 absorb per second. Providing anyone the equivalent of 19 HPS is significant, especially from a non support AT.

Sorry forgot he had spiritual too, so that 19hp absorb is actually only about 14hp. I know absorb is  not spiritual but it's listing in the enhanced value as added to the enhanced amount. Did they actually fix that dumb split between heal and absorb in the alphas?

[PeregrineFalcon]

3 hours ago, arcane said:

I think it’s completely reasonable now to say that what started as a slight Sorcery nerf was feedbacked (yes I’m making that a verb) into being a nice overall Sorcery buff..

Yes. This development team has habit of sweetening nerfs with buffs. That's a good thing, but it doesn't change the fact that once this team has decided to nerf something they ignore feedback against it.

 

1) We gave feedback against adding a combo system to Energy Melee. Ignored.

2) We gave feedback against adding a combo system to Sorcery pool. Ignored.

3) We gave feedback against decreasing the range of fast snipes. Ignored.

4) We gave feedback against the Rune of Protection nerf. They didn't ignore our feedback this time. They responded by nerfing it even harder!

 

 

Look, I'm not saying these decisions are wrong or that I disagree with them. I'm just saying that anyone who claims "the devs listen to feedback" is cherry-picking minor details while ignoring the big issues where the devs did ignore feedback.

 

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Are you prepared to accept their answer if they give you one like they did with the RoP change? It seemed to me that giving a detailed justification did nothing to sate the angry mob on that one, so it could be that such things could justifiably be seen as a bit of a waste of time for a limited volunteer team.

Yes. Who cares what the angry mob has done? The angry mob is always going to act like the angry mob. Using the angry mob as an excuse to refuse talk to those of us who are reasonable adults is ridiculous. Once again. If the devs aren't even going to talk to us then why have feedback threads?

[Jimmy]

3 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Look, I'm not saying these decisions are wrong or that I disagree with them. I'm just saying that anyone who claims "the devs listen to feedback" is cherry-picking minor details while ignoring the big issues where the devs did ignore feedback.

 

I also think your examples are also guilty of this. "We" isn't all players, and it's not fair to represent your views as being that of the entire playerbase. The overall reception to the EM updates was quite positive - the main gripe we observed was players simply wanting fast ET all the time, and anything less than that wasn't going to make them happy, regardless of what it was.

 

We do listen to all the feedback, we just don't agree with all of it. There's a difference.

[arcane]

They *did* talk to us about the RoP change though - that was my point. And that extra effort had little impact on nearly everyone who claimed to want answers, from what I saw. That’s all I’m saying. Not that they should never talk to us. [EDIT: though I will say that I don’t think it’s correct to believe that a properly functioning game is necessarily democratic.]
 

I don’t consider the addition of combo mechanic to be a nerf either - not sure how you call an additional mechanic a nerf unless said mechanic has potential for some of its outcomes to be detrimental like, say, Repel.

Edited April 23, 2021 by arcane

[Coyotedancer]

I'm going to miss my KM stalker's higher chance of getting a crit on Burst when she used it  straight out of Hide... Honestly, while I do get the urge to *STANDARDIZE ALL THE THINGS!!* that's not a particularly welcomed nerf to a set that I honestly don't think I've ever seen anyone accuse of being over-powered. 

 

But... yeah. There's no real reason to say much about it. Standardization regardless of general performance seems to be A Thing. Maybe the set will get a look at some point to make up for the loss.  

[SuperBear]

And there's your feedback. 🙂

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Coyotedancer said:

I'm going to miss my KM stalker's higher chance of getting a crit on Burst when she used it  straight out of Hide... Honestly, while I do get the urge to *STANDARDIZE ALL THE THINGS!!* that's not a particularly welcomed nerf to a set that I honestly don't think I've ever seen anyone accuse of being over-powered. 

 

But... yeah. There's no real reason to say much about it. Standardization regardless of general performance seems to be A Thing. Maybe the set will get a look at some point to make up for the loss.  

KM is widely considered to need buffs as a whole, not just as a Stalker set, so hopefully you will be made whole eventually by an update to that one.

[PeregrineFalcon]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

I also think your examples are also guilty of this. "We" isn't all players, and it's not fair to represent your views as being that of the entire playerbase. The overall reception to the EM updates was quite positive - the main gripe we observed was players simply wanting fast ET all the time, and anything less than that wasn't going to make them happy, regardless of what it was.

 

We do listen to all the feedback, we just don't agree with all of it. There's a difference.

I'm not misrepresenting my opinion as that of the entire player base. But I was in those beta feedback therads too. Not one single forum poster said "Oh, I love a combo system, that's great!" No. All of the feedback was either that they didn't care or that they were against it. No one was for it, and yet it went through anyway.

 

So explain to me how that's "listening to feedback." That's "we heard your feedback but we're going to go ahead and do what we want anyway", aka ignoring feedback.

 

P.S. Please don't add a combo system to Mercenaries.

[UberGuy]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

Siren's call map is still not properly aligned. I thought the notes said this was fixed. Is this not considered a geometry error?

 

Technically, no. Kind of a ... texture error? (The minimaps are just image/texture files.) But I don't think it would matter if you reported it in the geometry error thread, as long as a dev saw it.

 

I assume that's the regular map texture and not one of the Vidiot's style ones?

[Coyotedancer]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

KM is widely considered to need buffs as a whole, not just as a Stalker set, so hopefully you will be made whole eventually by an update to that one.

 

My fingers are crossed for that, yeah. I'm really fond of KM on Stalkers in spite of the set's reputation. (Don't ask me what I think of it on anyone else, though. 😝 )

[Jimmy]

2 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I'm not misrepresenting my opinion as that of the entire player base. But I was in those beta feedback therads too. Not one single forum poster said "Oh, I love a combo system, that's great!" No. All of the feedback was either that they didn't care or that they were against it. No one was for it, and yet it went through anyway.

 

So explain to me how that's "listening to feedback." That's "we heard your feedback but we're going to go ahead and do what we want anyway", aka ignoring feedback.

 

P.S. Please don't add a combo system to Mercenaries.

 

Maybe you read a different thread?

[UberGuy]

2 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I'm not misrepresenting my opinion as that of the entire player base. But I was in those beta feedback therads too. Not one single forum poster said "Oh, I love a combo system, that's great!" No. All of the feedback was either that they didn't care or that they were against it. No one was for it, and yet it went through anyway.

 

So explain to me how that's "listening to feedback." That's "we heard your feedback but we're going to go ahead and do what we want anyway", aka ignoring feedback.

 

If the devs woke up one day and gave us Laundry Melee, it would be fair feedback for people to say "no one wanted that". However, the devs could still choose to give us Laundry Melee and solicit feedback on how to make it functional and fun to play.

[UberGuy]

2 hours ago, gamingglen said:

 

I solo. There's no CC with my playing.  That's a BS reason anyway.

 

 

We get it. You hate the change. Agitating for someone to come justify it isn't going to change it back. It's seems obvious to me at least that there is no justification you would accept in any case, meaning you're asking for something that wouldn't change anything for you or anyone else.

Edited April 23, 2021 by UberGuy

[Bopper]

35 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Sorry forgot he had spiritual too, so that 19hp absorb is actually only about 14hp. I know absorb is  not spiritual but it's listing in the enhanced value as added to the enhanced amount. Did they actually fix that dumb split between heal and absorb in the alphas?

The split on alphas hasn't changed. As for your comment, what AT are you? I thought before you said a Brute, and I'm looking at the CoD data now: a Level 50 Brute will do 19.3 absorb every 2s. So, assuming you're level 50 and you are completely unenhanced, then I would not expect you to see less than 19.3 (rounded to show +19, probably) when you use the power on another ally.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Bopper

[PeregrineFalcon]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Maybe you read a different thread?

Oh, you mean the thread where you and the other mods deleted almost all of the posts arguing against the combo system because it wasn't "focused feedback"? That thread?

 

No, you don't get to show a discussion that you edited to your liking as "proof" that everyone was just peachy with the combo system being added to Energy Melee.

 

Look, you're clearly the kind of person who never admits when they're wrong even when proof is shoved in their face. That being the case I'm just going to bow out of this conversation now before I get myself in trouble.

[gamingglen]

12 minutes ago, UberGuy said:

 

We get it. You hate the change. Agitating for someone to come justify it isn't going to change it back. It's seems obvious to me at least that there is no justification you would accept in any case, meaning you're asking for something that wouldn't change anything for you or anyone else.

 

I made no such claim. I would like to hear a reason.

 

Several of you are putting words into other people's post. 

[UberGuy]

1 minute ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Oh, you mean the thread where you and the other mods deleted almost all of the posts arguing against the combo system because it wasn't "focused feedback"? That thread?

 

No, you don't get to show a discussion that you edited to your liking as "proof" that everyone was just peachy with the combo system being added to Energy Melee.

 

Your original statement was that no one wanted combos. Unless you're claiming that they edited the thread to add people posting that they liked the combo system, I think you're moving the goalposts.

[arcane]

I like the ET change and the Arcane Bolt change, FWIW..... I highly doubt I’m the only one.

[arcane]

4 minutes ago, gamingglen said:

 

I made no such claim. I would like to hear a reason.

 

Several of you are putting words into other people's post. 

Do you understand how “Devs haven’t stated a reason because there is no good reason” can be reasonably extrapolated as “I almost definitely won’t be happy with whatever reason a Dev gives me”?

Edited April 23, 2021 by arcane

[PeregrineFalcon]

3 minutes ago, arcane said:

I like the ET change and the Arcane Bolt change, FWIW..... I highly doubt I’m the only one.

Believe it or not, so do I. That's completely beside the point. My point wasn't whether or not people are happy with it now. I was specifically talking about the feedback that was being given back then in the beta test threads. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.