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With envenomed daggers, how valuable is Lingering Radiation?


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Mucking about on mids with a classic f/rad controller and thinking about the timing of Posi 2 and getting LR started me wondering about the utility of -regen powers in an age of dirt cheap daggers.

 

Do you still spend a power pick getting -regen?

 

Howling Twilight has the rez and stun, but LR only has a minor slow. 

If you think this game is too easy, run AE 801.* missions!

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Lingering Radiation's debuff dwarfs the dagger.  AVs and especially GMs can almost no-sell the dagger's puny -regen.  LR?  Not so much.

 

Envenomed daggers are better than nothing, but -regen from your actual primary or secondary is nearly always the superior option.

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According to City of Data, Envenomed Daggers give -250% regen, LR gives -500%

 

Envenomed Daggers sounds high... I thought it was no more than -100%, but I may be wrong there.

 

LR's -recharge is nothing to scoff though.  It's not that useful against AVs/GMs, but regular mobs will be really hurting from it.

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What this team needs is more Defenders

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Problem I have with the daggers too is you have to constantly spam them (the debuff lasts 10 seconds).  I often find myself forgetting to spam them enough.  LR is much easier cast and forget since it lasts 30 seconds.

 

Also, I wouldn't call -75% slow/recharge as minor.   It isn't going to do much against AV's as they'll resist most of it, but it is worth using on normal mobs.

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All above are correct: the direct comparison of values absolutely favors LR. 
 

But a full, or even a majority, of a team tossing daggers isn’t that unusual, where multiple LR is generally limited to theme runs.

 

So to rephrase the question, is LR still high value when everyone can contribute to -regen?

If you think this game is too easy, run AE 801.* missions!

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Thing is, even if everyone CAN, most people WON'T.  One person keeping LR going pretty much ends any regen worries without interrupting rotations, whereas two or three people have to keep dropping what they're doing to toss more daggers.

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I don't think I've ever seen someone toss daggers on a team unless it was known in advance we were doing something stupid, like a +4 Kahn with no debuffers. As someone who has on occasion turned to them to solo AVs, spamming them is pretty terrible on your blue bar and, unless you're low DPS to start with, probably harms your DPS.

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2 minutes ago, UberGuy said:

I don't think I've ever seen someone toss daggers on a team unless it was known in advance we were doing something stupid, like a +4 Kahn with no debuffers. As someone who has on occasion turned to them to solo AVs, spamming them is pretty terrible on your blue bar and, unless you're low DPS to start with, probably harms your DPS.

This.^

If you haven't got the dps and/or no regen debuffs then chuck away but otherwise use LR (or other -regen powers)

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3 hours ago, TaxibotJoe said:

But a full, or even a majority, of a team tossing daggers isn’t that unusual, where multiple LR is generally limited to theme runs.

Pretty slim odds of that many people having the daggers.

I have only ever bought the envenomed daggers on ONE character (my main, who solos a lot of stuff).

No one else carries any.  Ever.

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I used to hail from Infinity.  Mainly on Everlasting, now.

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9 hours ago, TaxibotJoe said:

But a full, or even a majority, of a team tossing daggers isn’t that unusual, where multiple LR is generally limited to theme runs.

 

So to rephrase the question, is LR still high value when everyone can contribute to -regen?

This sounds like the argument that we never need never ever play a Force Fielder again because literally everyone's defense-capping their builds past 12th level and everyone's running super-tricked out purples'n'Superior ATO builds at 50.

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I have never even bought a dagger, let alone used one.

 

I have mountains of buffs from winter packs and super packs in my account email I have used all of maybe once.

 

Go AT or Go Home!

 

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1 hour ago, Hew said:

Go AT or Go Home!

You'd never make it in Arachnos with an attitude like that.

 

Use the tools available to you. Influence, infamy and information all buy you an advantage.

Few worlds were dominated on the flight back from the hospital.

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14 hours ago, TaxibotJoe said:

All above are correct: the direct comparison of values absolutely favors LR. 
 

But a full, or even a majority, of a team tossing daggers isn’t that unusual, where multiple LR is generally limited to theme runs.

 

So to rephrase the question, is LR still high value when everyone can contribute to -regen?

Well, if you want to run a Master of TF...you can't use envenomed daggers, so there's that. 

The math makes it clear, Envenomed Daggers are useful but so is lingering radiation. Use both. 

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3 hours ago, Ukase said:

Well, if you want to run a Master of TF...you can't use envenomed daggers, so there's that. 

The math makes it clear, Envenomed Daggers are useful but so is lingering radiation. Use both. 

Yup, the Rad hits Reichsman with LR and toggles, the Cold with Benumb, HL and Sleet and everyone else chucks a dagger then tears into him.

 

And no plan hasn't got its flaws or survives contact 😜

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I'm kinda shocked to see so many people don't use the daggers. I always use them for GMs, or AVs if my attacks don't have any -regen. Many of my friends do the same for hard content. If you don't have much -regen in your attacks It just makes sense for the team to be stacking -regen with daggers.

Edited by Giovanni Valia
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Excelsior Server: Giovanni Valia, Operative Velez, Fortunata Valeri, LongFang Mercer

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My main, a Claws/SR scrapper, frequently carries several both because she occasionally fights things solo where it will speed up things and because PuGs are ... well PuGs.  Same reason one of her alt builds included a Hold power in her epic choice.

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I carry a lot of extras. I love the ranged echo version of Positron. Some serious debuff/damage with that temp. I'll use them against AVs primarily, or certain ouro challenge missions. (No enhancements, etc - just not the no temp one. ) But yeah, each of my characters, unless they're a challenge character that has to make their own fortune, they all start with 120 charges of envenomed dagger. 

But, interestingly, certain origins get a nice beginning power, Apprentice Charm that deals -res.  -3.25% for 8 seconds. 
I will use it when I can fit it into the attack chain. 

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12 hours ago, Giovanni Valia said:

I'm kinda shocked to see so many people don't use the daggers. I always use them for GMs, or AVs if my attacks don't have any -regen. Many of my friends do the same for hard content. If you don't have much -regen in your attacks It just makes sense for the team to be stacking -regen with daggers.

*shrug*  I can't say I recall fighting many AVs that didn't end badly for the AV within like two minutes or less.  And if it took longer, then I felt like I'd accomplished something so it was win-win!

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_____________________________

50s (Indom and Excel):  Bluefox (Rad/Beam Rifle Corr), King Pumpkin Spice 🎃 (Mercs/Nature MM), Stupid Like A Fox (Time/DP Def), Poltergeist Prince (Darkness Control/Empathy 'Troller), Capt Sam's Space Zoo (Beast/FF MM), Snake Charming (Mind Control/Poison Troller), The Midnight Bridge (Storm/Rad Blast 'Fender)  Pawkysham Vex (Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller)  Piikal and P'Zhowm (Grav/Energy Dom)

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I use daggers for most of my characters when I run the early TFs (Posi 1, 2, Synapse, and Citadel) solo.  Using them usually provides enough -regen for the midlevel toon to take out the AV in a reasonable amount of time.  As a previous poster noted, using all available tools.

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I suppose part of my thing is a conviction that half of the P2W powers shouldn't even exist. At all. Period.

Yes, I know they existed on LIVE. 

Yes, I know they're never ever ever going away.

Yes, I know I'm leaving resources untouched on the table by not using them. 

Yes, I know they don't cost real-life money now.

 

But I still view P2W powers through the lens of "you're from the dark times.... when microtransactions were infecting my favorite game that should have always remained a flat subscription".  (No, I'm not always rational).

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5 minutes ago, Tiger Shadow said:

How does diamagnetic interface stack up to the daggers? I've never tried it.

 

For me at least,  the interface feels like its doing nothing.  Granted i havent timed it.  But when im using it, it doesnt feel like its helping at all.  When i toss a dagger i notice the difference.

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