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I haven been trying to get settled in on a build that I can take to the highest tiers of content. My fear is that I will invest a lot of time in to a bad build and then not get into groups because of it. I am requesting help for a top tier build, please help.

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33 minutes ago, Reningrendir said:

I haven been trying to get settled in on a build that I can take to the highest tiers of content. My fear is that I will invest a lot of time in to a bad build and then not get into groups because of it. I am requesting help for a top tier build, please help.

 

This isn't WoW. People won't refuse entry because you're not X. We are at a point where even a Scrapper can tank most things so you'll do fine if you pick something you enjoy.

 

Personally, yes, dead things don't hurt back so I'm all for Fire Armor.

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@sovera in Everlasting - I love teaming up so hit me up.

 

Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

 

Fire Armor/Martial Arts: the Brunker - Altitis cure.

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2 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

This isn't WoW. People won't refuse entry because you're not X. We are at a point where even a Scrapper can tank most things so you'll do fine if you pick something you enjoy.

 

Personally, yes, dead things don't hurt back so I'm all for Fire Armor.

Amen! That reminds me though: MA still the reigning Brunker King with Fire Armor?

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Just now, StriderIV said:

Amen! That reminds me though: MA still the reigning Brunker King with Fire Armor?

 

Claws and MA still neck to neck. One more offense oriented, the other more all rounder.

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@sovera in Everlasting - I love teaming up so hit me up.

 

Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

 

Fire Armor/Martial Arts: the Brunker - Altitis cure.

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Here are a few things I forgot when I came back and re-rolled a tank:

1) Endurance draining enemies.

2) Psi damage.

3) The limitations of a purely defense based build.

4) The overwhelming noise and misinformation from farming builds as it compares to a tank for playing the game normally.
5) Almost every reply you get will have a build with hundreds of millions of influence (sometimes billions) and is an end game build assuming all incarnate powers and reaching a soft cap on some type of positional defense at the expense of everything else.

6) How some powers (and powersets) animate slowly and thus annoy me, effectively making an entire powerset unplayable for me.
7) Some builds are identical to what they were at launch and appear archaic compared to the new sets.  For example, stone is one of the most iconic and recognizable sets for any comic book fan.  Yet, the only way to play the build is to pick up teleport.  (Or have someone with speed boost on the team.)  Just think about that through the lens of a comic book fan.  A melee tank, made of rock, who's only means of movement is teleporting?  This really needs to be re-vamped with different stances similar to bio or something similar.  Imagine if the hulk couldn't jump.  Or if Colossus could only walk as fast as an elderly person.  It's just strange and out of date.  

If you take these into consideration, I think it will reduce your concerns a bit.

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14 hours ago, Sovera said:

... We are at a point where even a Scrapper can tank most things so you'll do fine if you pick something you enjoy...

An armored empath can tank all the official game content except the i-trials, which have cheaty AV mechanics.   Play what you want.

 

I recommend: /EnA (Defense, Any AT), Rad (Resist-Cap, Brute and Tank), /Bio (Heal-Armor, Any AT) . . Defense Alternate for tanks: SD/ and Inv/ ... but really any armor will work for the official game content.

 

Infinitum, Hyperstrike, Sovera, Myshkin, and many others all have great builds.  The named ones are just the one's I've stolen from most recently. 😜

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AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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6 hours ago, Linea said:

An armored empath can tank all the official game content except the i-trials, which have cheaty AV mechanics.   Play what you want.

 

I recommend: /EnA (Defense, Any AT), Rad (Resist-Cap, Brute and Tank), /Bio (Heal-Armor, Any AT) . . Defense Alternate for tanks: SD/ and Inv/ ... but really any armor will work for the official game content.

 

Infinitum, Hyperstrike, Sovera, Myshkin, and many others all have great builds.  The named ones are just the one's I've stolen from most recently. 😜

What "armored empath" can tank?  There is an empath build that can take alpha strikes from +8/+4 missions consistently from one group to the next, and can hold aggro, and have the same or similar mez protection?

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20 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

This isn't WoW. People won't refuse entry because you're not X. We are at a point where even a Scrapper can tank most things so you'll do fine if you pick something you enjoy.

 

Personally, yes, dead things don't hurt back so I'm all for Fire Armor.

And if you mess up a Fire Armor build just take Rise of The Phoenix and use it as a nuke!

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Hold Aggro? *shrug* More of a scrapper in that regard.

 

You can armor most ATs, and most builds, but not quite all, well enough to solo most official content short of +4 AVs and i-Trials (and even Apex and Tinmage  with several builds, Lambda gets more problematic but not impossible, and BAF and above are probably too much for the 'squishies', but as soon as I say that someone will have probably done it with an all-squishie min-size team.). 

 

The tank version of that should be trivial, hence the 'play the tank you want' comment.
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Linea
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AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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3 hours ago, Linea said:

Hold Aggro? *shrug* More of a scrapper in that regard.

 

You can armor most ATs, and most builds, but not quite all, well enough to solo most official content short of +4 AVs and i-Trials (and even Apex and Tinmage  with several builds, Lambda gets more problematic but not impossible, and BAF and above are probably too much for the 'squishies', but as soon as I say that someone will have probably done it with an all-squishie min-size team.). 

 

The tank version of that should be trivial, hence the 'play the tank you want' comment.
 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

So just to be clear - In the tank section of the forums, where a person asked specifically about which end game tank build he should pick, your recommendation is to play an empath defender?

There are clearly superior tank builds to others.  There are clearly some that require very little investment in influence.  There are clearly some that are easier to play somewhat passively and effectively.  There are clearly some that require more decision making and tactics.  

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5 hours ago, Nightmare Shaman said:

So just to be clear - In the tank section of the forums, where a person asked specifically about which end game tank build he should pick, your recommendation is to play an empath defender?

There are clearly superior tank builds to others.  There are clearly some that require very little investment in influence.  There are clearly some that are easier to play somewhat passively and effectively.  There are clearly some that require more decision making and tactics.  

 

Woosh.

 

The answer Linea gave was in context. I said any tank will tank the game and even Scrappers can tank. Linea answered the way we currently are an Empath can do it. Someone asked about the Empath. Linea posted the build.

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@sovera in Everlasting - I love teaming up so hit me up.

 

Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

 

Fire Armor/Martial Arts: the Brunker - Altitis cure.

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The answer Linea gave was in context. I said any tank will tank the game and even Scrappers can tank. Linea answered the way we currently are an Empath can do it. Someone asked about the Empath. Linea posted the build.

Nightmare Shaman was also the one that asked about the empath.

 

And in context, I did also recommend not only ANY tank, which IS my recommendation, but also recommended more specifically:

Quote

I recommend: /EnA (Defense, Any AT), Rad (Resist-Cap, Brute and Tank), /Bio (Heal-Armor, Any AT) . . Defense Alternate for tanks: SD/ and Inv/ ... but really any armor will work for the official game content.

If you want even more specific, 'there can be only one', then I'd say Inv/ ... it's practically auto-pilot and top tier durable.  I said that somewhere recently as well, but perhaps not this thread.  Personally if *I* could have only one, I'd pick SD and dual-build or tri-build (Non-Psi high def/res, Psi-Tank, Proc Monster) ... and that's exactly what I've done and/or am doing.  But I've also built the other armors as well.  One of my next projects is probably looking at a better SD/ProcMonster, preferably in RadM.  I'm good at the high def/res builds, I'm not nearly as good at the Proc Monster builds.

 

Edited by Linea
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AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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It appears you guys either willingly or unwillingly confuse survivability with "tanking".  To someone unfamiliar with tanking and/or the game as the OP appears to be, you're woefully misinforming him and possibly overwhelming him with unnecessary delineation about possible builds versus practical builds.  All of which was covered in #5 and somewhat in #4 of my list of advice to the OP.  You essentially did exactly what I said people mistakenly do on these forums - give overblown explanations of theoretical or very specific, expensive builds used in very specific situations.

Of all things, an actual tank should be able to withstand most damage types, in most situations, surviving alpha strikes continuously from one group to the next with little to no downtime, while both maintaining aggro, and having the ability to grab aggro when it is momentarily lost.  (mostly with taunt)

Saying an x,y,z build can survive this or that, either from seeing it happen once or twice, or throwing out some wacky, atypical build from some majorly IO'd, expensive powerset combination and concluding that anything and everything is equitable for one role or another is just moronic.  Scrappers can sorta tank.  So can brutes.  But, can they tank as well as a tanker archetype?  No.  Not inherently.  

So keep your opinions.  I know you will continue to believe your foolishness.  But, please stop telling inexperienced people such inaccurate information.  It makes the game less approachable and muddies the water with endless obfuscation.

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In the current meta, surviving alpha strikes is about the only thing a tank needs to do in *most* content, most things die so quickly that grabbing aggro after the fact is not particularly important, because things just don't last that long.

 

Linea has made a lot of valid points in both the "which tank should I choose" and the "most things can tank (using the above criteria)" worlds.  I'll 2nd invul as it is really only 2nd to Granite in terms of surviving non-psi damage, but it comes without the penalties that Granite has.  If you're concerned about Psi damage, then Rad or Shield are good ways to go (Probably rad over shield since there is a fair amount of non-positional Psi damage in this game).

 

The OP specifically said "top-tier" builds, meaning he's willing to invest inf into it.  That means that any advice that Linea's given in specific regards to tanks is valid.  If you want a top-tier build, you're not going to be running SOs.

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What this team needs is more Defenders

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32 minutes ago, Nightmare Shaman said:

It appears you guys either willingly or unwillingly confuse survivability with "tanking".  To someone unfamiliar with tanking and/or the game as the OP appears to be, you're woefully misinforming him and possibly overwhelming him with unnecessary delineation about possible builds versus practical builds.  All of which was covered in #5 and somewhat in #4 of my list of advice to the OP.  You essentially did exactly what I said people mistakenly do on these forums - give overblown explanations of theoretical or very specific, expensive builds used in very specific situations.

Of all things, an actual tank should be able to withstand most damage types, in most situations, surviving alpha strikes continuously from one group to the next with little to no downtime, while both maintaining aggro, and having the ability to grab aggro when it is momentarily lost.  (mostly with taunt)

Saying an x,y,z build can survive this or that, either from seeing it happen once or twice, or throwing out some wacky, atypical build from some majorly IO'd, expensive powerset combination and concluding that anything and everything is equitable for one role or another is just moronic.  Scrappers can sorta tank.  So can brutes.  But, can they tank as well as a tanker archetype?  No.  Not inherently.  

So keep your opinions.  I know you will continue to believe your foolishness.  But, please stop telling inexperienced people such inaccurate information.  It makes the game less approachable and muddies the water with endless obfuscation.

Calling people foolish morons does not rise to the level of discussion or even argument, it's just plain ad hominem.

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I really enjoy my shield tanker, it has a great team buff in super maneuvers, a nice little damage debuff aggro shield, a fun additional strong aoe attack from your defense of all things.   With IO's I run +56%  on my positional defenses, have 3300hp, at least 60% resist on everything even psi resist without using the godmode which does come in handy on occasion.  Just take all the shield powers, slot some IO's and go have fun.  The only thing my tank is missing is a heal of some sort, no big whoop with everything I can get from it I'll just carry a few greens and went with the heal incarnate power which I end up using to heal teammates more so.  

 

Tanks are always welcome on teams just take your taunt and team buffs and you're fine to play.  So it really just comes down to what you'll enjoy playing yourself.  

Edited by Mezmera
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Tank A hops around actively grabbing aggro, uses correct positioning to direct AOE splash damage away from the team, prioritizes threats and recognizes when to save teammates in trouble.

 

Tank B stands in one place punching whatever comes up on tab. Tank B like to stand in front of an AV/GM with his teammates and let the AV/GM cones tag his teammates. Tank B likes to jump into a group and solo the trash mobs and move on to the next and leave the bosses to the squishy low damage ATs.

 

Both Tank A and B run the same build.

 

Good tanks aren't good on account of their builds. There are top tier builds, and then there are top tier tanks, they are not the same.

 

Also with the current state of the game, no one cares if you have a bad build because everyone else will be tankmaging end game content which is a joke at +3 level shift.

 

Other people have commented on builds already. Some are more survivable, some more offensive. I've tanked +4 seers/arachnos and other nasty factions on my Fire/SS tank, you'll be fine with the support of your teamamtes.

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14 hours ago, Nightmare Shaman said:

So just to be clear - In the tank section of the forums, where a person asked specifically about which end game tank build he should pick, your recommendation is to play an empath defender?

There are clearly superior tank builds to others.  There are clearly some that require very little investment in influence.  There are clearly some that are easier to play somewhat passively and effectively.  There are clearly some that require more decision making and tactics.  

 

/em doublefacepalm

 

I'm 100% positive the advice was 'Play what you want.' followed by specific powerset options. Let it go, geez.

 

28 minutes ago, Nemu said:

There are top tier builds, and then there are top tier tanks, they are not the same.

 

+1

 

 

@Reningrendir find something you like. (you should know by level 40ish)

Don't worry about wasting time. They all can do the job, especially by the time we are taking level shifts from incarnates. My suggestion for straight forward Tanking would be Shield Defense/Stone Melee, it feels powerful and fun with everything getting knocked around. Invulnerability is also always a solid choice.

 

 

 

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Sooo.. I guess I am taking a non-voluntary break until November?!

 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

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28 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

/em doublefacepalm

 

I'm 100% positive the advice was 'Play what you want.' followed by specific powerset options. Let it go, geez.

 

 

+1

 

 

@Reningrendir find something you like. (you should know by level 40ish)

Don't worry about wasting time. They all can do the job, especially by the time we are taking level shifts from incarnates. My suggestion for straight forward Tanking would be Shield Defense/Stone Melee, it feels powerful and fun with everything getting knocked around. Invulnerability is also always a solid choice.

 

 

 

I'm a huge shield fan and I NEVER thought of stone melee with it. For some reason I always imagined it as a "2 handed" weapon type of thing due to the stone clubs. Awesome suggestion.

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4 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

I'm a huge shield fan and I NEVER thought of stone melee with it. For some reason I always imagined it as a "2 handed" weapon type of thing due to the stone clubs. Awesome suggestion.

 

I like my shield/street justice tank.  StJ on tanks has a very nice resistance debuff in one of the ST attacks which is great on those boss fights which also is a part of your attack chain, plus stj looks like you're bar room brawling.  The only thing it feels is that StJ may be light on the aoe a tad but shield fills that in nice.  

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Just now, Mezmera said:

 

I like my shield/street justice tank.  StJ on tanks has a very nice resistance debuff in one of the ST attacks which is great on those boss fights which also is a part of your attack chain, plus stj looks like you're bar room brawling.  The only thing it feels is that StJ may be light on the aoe a tad but shield fills that in nice.  

True, they seem like a REALLY solid match. I rolled my first willpower tanker not too long ago and matched it up with StJ, just for thematic reasons. I could definitely see Shield/StJ being a TON of fun though. I know it's not the BEST, but I dig Kinetic Melee's animations and I've been looking at it on a Tanker as well.

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3 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

True, they seem like a REALLY solid match. I rolled my first willpower tanker not too long ago and matched it up with StJ, just for thematic reasons. I could definitely see Shield/StJ being a TON of fun though. I know it's not the BEST, but I dig Kinetic Melee's animations and I've been looking at it on a Tanker as well.

 

spacer.png

 

Yeah this is what I feel it's like to be Kinetic Melee at the moment.  Honorable looking but not sure how effective it is when the blaster just pews dead your targets.  

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