Remove Operative Renault's Ambush Entirely

[Katharos]

During Operative Renault's strike force, an ambush spawns to attack the first player who makes it to Kalinda in the Speak With Kalinda segment of the SF. Kalinda is smack dab in the middle of the level 1 spawn-in area. There are not nearly enough Arachnos Drones in the area to keep it clear of even level 1 Longbow, no matter level 30+ Arachnos. To make matters worse, because the mission is a simple talk to a contact mission, there's usually only one person who's ever at Kalinda, so even if the player wants to fix matters, it's often not possible because the spawn is x8. This causes all new villains to get stomped by level 30+ Arachnos, and sometimes the odd level 30 player, too. The ambush would be better if removed entirely, or moved to a different part of the SF, where the local area isn't occupied by level 1-5 players. It's a situation that's hard to imagine being replicated in Atlas! 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Katharos

[TraumaTrain]

It is an odd one. I generally tell the team that the ambush will happen and to please help me clear it before moving on to the next mission. I feel bad that some low level characters might be in for a bad moment or two if it doesn't get taken care of. 

[VinceBlood]

2 minutes ago, TraumaTrain said:

It is an odd one. I generally tell the team that the ambush will happen and to please help me clear it before moving on to the next mission. I feel bad that some low level characters might be in for a bad moment or two if it doesn't get taken care of. 

 

Not 20 minutes ago I loaded in a freshly-made Widow and was immediately killed.

[TraumaTrain]

2 minutes ago, VinceBlood said:

 

Not 20 minutes ago I loaded in a freshly-made Widow and was immediately killed.

Yeah, that can be frustrating.

 

If what you're doing spawns an ambush in a lower level zone, be a sport and clear it. Or lead it to a drone or something.

[Katharos]

1 minute ago, VinceBlood said:

 

Not 20 minutes ago I loaded in a freshly-made Widow and was immediately killed.

I am really, *really* sorry about that. I was on my pain defender and I'm afraid I can't solo +2x8 on this combo. I tried to pull them into the two drones on the far side and nearly died for it. And my team TT'd straight to Gharbag- Gharbu, so they finished that mission before I could even get to it, and I was nearly dead for my efforts. 😞

 

I don't see a compelling reason to keep it in the game given the grief it causes. At least other ambushes are largely in level-appropriate zones.

[VinceBlood]

2 minutes ago, Katharos said:

I am really, *really* sorry about that. I was on my pain defender and I'm afraid I can't solo +2x8 on this combo. I tried to pull them into the two drones on the far side and nearly died for it. And my team TT'd straight to Gharbag- Gharbu, so they finished that mission before I could even get to it, and I was nearly dead for my efforts. 😞

 

I don't see a compelling reason to keep it in the game given the grief it causes. At least other ambushes are largely in level-appropriate zones.

 

Hey, no need to apologize.  If anything I'm sorry for my reaction in broadcast.  Had no idea it was possible to get an ambush in there.  I'm kind of used to people trying to grief so I assumed the worst.

 

On that note, yeah, I don't see a point for this ambush to be difficulty scaled and happening in the noob zone.

[siolfir]

It probably should have been removed when Kalinda was moved out of Fort Darwin, which had a higher drone density and mob pathing that led past them to the point where I didn't even notice that there was an ambush attached to the mission.

[TraumaTrain]

A better way might be to place an alternate Kalinda in Sharkhead who sends the team to get the death rattle and then return to (Sharkhead) Kalinda where the ambush can happen.

 

Who sends that ambush anyway? Kalinda? Barracuda? I gotta look that up...

 

I guess it is Ghost Widow? The wiki is very unclear about that ambush.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by TraumaTrain
Answers

[Katharos]

Icing on the cake, I managed to mostly get my team to follow me to Kalinda during today's Renault for the express purpose of wiping the ambush -- and those jerks just darted in and out of the instanced area right next to spawn so we couldn't kill all of them while they still could destroy new characters! I beg you. There's so many layers of awfulness to this particular ambush. Please consider its removal.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Katharos

[Razor Cure]

When I saw the title for this, I totally was NOT thinking of the ambush at Kalinda. Sure, mobs spawing in a level 1 zone are bad but..how much does one death mean then? They wont be getting debt anyway. And if they die, they spawn literally 5 foot away, so its not like they are suddenly far away from the hub area.

 

Added to the fact that Mercy is far and away less populated than Atlas. At least on Torchbearer. Although..can you image how much outrage there would be if a similar thing caused ambushes by Ms Lib?!

 

The actual ambush in the Shockstorm mission is just about the WORST one in the game. I am trying, but cant think of one. Constant mobs of never ending longbow, that follow the players anywhere. ANYWHERE. And Longbow are already tough enough. I cant think of a single blueside tf with an ambush on that scale. Funny, that.

[Arbegla]

16 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

When I saw the title for this, I totally was NOT thinking of the ambush at Kalinda. Sure, mobs spawing in a level 1 zone are bad but..how much does one death mean then? They wont be getting debt anyway. And if they die, they spawn literally 5 foot away, so its not like they are suddenly far away from the hub area.

 

Added to the fact that Mercy is far and away less populated than Atlas. At least on Torchbearer. Although..can you image how much outrage there would be if a similar thing caused ambushes by Ms Lib?!

 I mean, without doing the Blue/Red side comparison, look at it from a new player perspective. You get introduced to this new Super Hero/Villian game, with insane customization options, you spend however long making your costume just right, load into the FIRST ZONE, and the immediately die to an ambush of mobs literally 25+ levels higher then you.

I don't know about you, but I would rage quit on the spot and move onto something else. Lets think of the newbies, especially with the fact we all want City of Heroes to stay around and become more popular.

[Razor Cure]

10 hours ago, Arbegla said:

I don't know about you, but I would rage quit on the spot and move onto something else.

Then you really would not have given the game any proper consideration. I mean..sure, dying with no chance (+25s) is bad..but again, no debt. NO set backs at all, besides ending up 5 foot away in the hosp. Also, considering nothing else in that area of Mercy (and the rest of it) is over level 10(ish), you'd have to be a bit of an idiot to snap judge the entire GAME, and think that mobs 20 levels higher than a zone, just wander around.

Also, I don't know about YOU, but if I was a new played and died that way, Id be asking about it in the Help channel, and its a certainty that someone would say 'oh it is an ambush from a higher mission, dont worry about it.'

[BrandX]

It's punishment for being evil.  >_>

[Tiger Shadow]

On 5/3/2021 at 12:27 AM, Razor Cure said:

can you image how much outrage there would be if a similar thing caused ambushes by Ms Lib?!

 

2 hours ago, BrandX said:

It's punishment for being evil.  >_>

 

I think the two of you are on to something here. The obvious solution is to have the Renault SF spawn an identical ambush at Ms. Liberty in Atlas Park. After all, if it's not unfair to villains then it's not unfair to heroes either.

[Katharos]

New topic: remove police drones from Atlas Park and make all Kronos Class Titan spawns start under the statue. That’ll show em. 
 

It’s really the principle of the thing. It’s in the game’s best interest to facilitate positive engagement and boost its own population. Part of the job of the starting area of any game is to build investment in the game. That means making it as positive an experience as possible, within the bounds of reasonably representing the experience the game will offer. It is a sales pitch.

 

 I don’t think quitting over being stomped by level 30 enemies in the starter zone is an overreaction, even if I wouldn’t do it myself. If the most polished part of the game, the new player experience, is dysfunctional enough to put a player in a clear no-win situation, even if the consequences are minimal, that is a signal about the nature of the rest of the game. I don’t believe it’s representative of the game as a whole (honestly, everything about the starter areas currently is misleading, as much as I like them) but it’s reasonable for a new player to have that takeaway. 
 

And I’m not convinced it’s a no-sweat situation either. There are only the two Arachnos Drones in the area, and the game doesn’t signal those guys delete enemies from the game unless you see them do it. Almost all of the starter area missions are outdoors. A badly timed, sized, and placed ambush could completely stymie a new player’s progress. It’s very avoidable and entirely unnecessary. The ambush doesn’t even improve the SF because most people aren’t aware of it and skip it. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Katharos

[Doomguide2005]

    Sounds like an ambush that needs some work.  Personally I like a good old style ambush, but any lowbies need a chance to either be ignored or evaded by lowbies in the area until they attack or otherwise behave in a  hostile manner.  One of my absolute earliest memories from Live was being on my first in KR and looking up to see a couple of black clad high tech soldier types and wondering what Malta were ... oh my lvl 52!.  Good lesson to be had there check your target window before engaging.  I've also been in a duo with a friend.  I was exemped on my 50 scrapper, the friend with much less playtime on his lvl 14ish tanker.  We just finished a CoT mission of his in the Hollows and just after exiting several CoT came rushing into our area.  You can probably guess what came next.  He did Tanker things, I tab targetted, I started typing a warning ... too late Tanker go splat as he aggro'd a bunch of lvl 30 CoT who just happening to be moving through the area enroute to somewhere/someone else.

[Apparition]

3 minutes ago, Katharos said:

New topic: remove police drones from Atlas Park and make all Kronos Class Titan spawns start under the statue. That’ll show em. 

 

 

You jest, but if the developers ever added a P2W temporary power that lets you spawn The Hamidon over top of Ms. Liberty in Atlas Park for two billion INF per pop, I'd be constantly broke. 

 

On a slightly more serious note, yeah, the Mercy Island ambush in the Operative Renault SF either needs to go or be moved to another zone after another mission.

[siolfir]

Just gonna drop this here...