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Posted (edited)

Sorry if this has been asked before, but does the HC staff have plans to look at Mind Control's lack of a pet and add something?  I'd love to see a level 32 pet power put in as an option, either a summoned pet like other pet classes or a "permanent" mind control like power (take control of an enemy for several minutes that would need refreshed periodically or it could break free).  I wouldn't want the area confuse replaced, but either reshuffled or as another level 32 option.  Mind is the only controller/dom primary I haven't tried because I love pets, even if they have dumb AI.  Sorry again if this has been asked before!

 

Edit:  What do you think of MC not having a pet?  Would you support an optional power selection at 32 of a pet?  If so, what kind of pet would you like to see?

Edited by Senbonbanana
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38 minutes ago, Senbonbanana said:

Sorry if this has been asked before, but does the HC staff have plans to look at Mind Control's lack of a pet and add something?  I'd love to see a level 32 pet power put in as an option, either a summoned pet like other pet classes or a "permanent" mind control like power (take control of an enemy for several minutes that would need refreshed periodically or it could break free).  I wouldn't want the area confuse replaced, but either reshuffled or as another level 32 option.  Mind is the only controller/dom primary I haven't tried because I love pets, even if they have dumb AI.  Sorry again if this has been asked before!

 

Edit:  What do you think of MC not having a pet?  Would you support an optional power selection at 32 of a pet?  If so, what kind of pet would you like to see?

 

It's the whole reason to go with Mind Control.  If you want a pet there's a plethora of other power sets to choose.  Mass Confusion gives you 16 pets all at once and you have the regular ST confuse where you can keep enemy bosses as your pet as long as you wish. 

 

Who needs a pet that'll just get killed running across the map when you can make many pets with every group?  The most appealing thing about Mind Control is the amount of control within the set and how seamless it is to use each and every power.  It has no use for a summon pet and I give a very big No to losing Mass Confusion.  

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I personally really like how mobile MC is since it doesn't drag a pet behind with a mind of its own. It would be really interesting to see MC get some control over confused targets like a MM, but that'd probably be way too strong. You can keep an AV perma-confused after all.

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I very much like Mind Control not having permanent summonable pets. ;

Confuse means all enemies are my potential pets.  That's plenty good enough for me. 

 

Confuse already IS my "take control of enemy mob for X time and need to refresh or it can break free". 

No, I can't order it around. No, it won't zone with me.  But those are concessions to game balance that I'm okay with. 

 

Singy is a pretty beastly pet for gravity control.  But it can't heal me like Tsoo Sorcerors.  

Fly Trap has some good immobs and damage. But it can't match a Zeus Titan. 

Animated Stone tanks like a champ.  But it's not going to rip things faces off like a Cimeron Boss. 

And I can confuse several enemy mobs at once and maintain them without much effort. 

 

I really don't feel Mind is lacking here. 

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10 hours ago, Mezmera said:

 

It's the whole reason to go with Mind Control.  If you want a pet there's a plethora of other power sets to choose.  Mass Confusion gives you 16 pets all at once and you have the regular ST confuse where you can keep enemy bosses as your pet as long as you wish. 

 

Who needs a pet that'll just get killed running across the map when you can make many pets with every group?  The most appealing thing about Mind Control is the amount of control within the set and how seamless it is to use each and every power.  It has no use for a summon pet and I give a very big No to losing Mass Confusion.  

 

Well the 16 pets all at once argument is kinda silly considering plant does that without it being a long cooldown - lol. However I do find the pets to be rather lackluster. They die in relevant content, or do so little damage its not even worth summoning them. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, MTeague said:

I very much like Mind Control not having permanent summonable pets. ;

Confuse means all enemies are my potential pets.  That's plenty good enough for me. 

 

Confuse already IS my "take control of enemy mob for X time and need to refresh or it can break free". 

No, I can't order it around. No, it won't zone with me.  But those are concessions to game balance that I'm okay with. 

 

Singy is a pretty beastly pet for gravity control.  But it can't heal me like Tsoo Sorcerors.  

Fly Trap has some good immobs and damage. But it can't match a Zeus Titan. 

Animated Stone tanks like a champ.  But it's not going to rip things faces off like a Cimeron Boss. 

And I can confuse several enemy mobs at once and maintain them without much effort. 

 

I really don't feel Mind is lacking here. 

Same as my reply above - those arguments are pointless against plant, who already does that. Trying to sell mind control as the "but you get enemy pets because of confuse!" is a bad selling point since another power set, plant, gets that, AND a pet, plus plants confuse is much better.

Edited by vynestra
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Just now, vynestra said:

Well the 16 pets all at once argument is kinda silly considering plant does that without it being a long cooldown - lol.

 

And to be fair Mind Control is a legacy power set so Mass Confusion got its rebalancing ages before Seeds of Confusion even became a thing.  Since it was still a newer powerset people comparing Mass Confusion would be asking for them to make it like Seeds which I'd see them making Seeds more like Mass Confusion.  

 

Seeds is OP, yes we know, plant is good.  

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1 minute ago, Mezmera said:

 

And to be fair Mind Control is a legacy power set so Mass Confusion got its rebalancing ages before Seeds of Confusion even became a thing.  Since it was still a newer powerset people comparing Mass Confusion would be asking for them to make it like Seeds which I'd see them making Seeds more like Mass Confusion.  

 

Seeds is OP, yes we know, plant is good.  

All the more reason mind control should be buffed imo. 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, vynestra said:

All the more reason mind control should be buffed imo. 

 

I'd rather not have that power creep into my Mind dom.  Or would you like to see what I can already do with her without having an OP Mass Confusion available for every mob?

 

Tone down Seeds so we stop using plant as the bar.  

Edited by Mezmera
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Posted (edited)

All the Control sets have varied in power over the years but Mind's journey may be the most extreme. It has truly been around the world and back.

 

Mind Control was hit really, really hard by the addition of target caps and the nerfing of AoE controls. When those changes were introduced Plant, Electric, and Dark Control did not exist yet. Looking at those sets in 2021 it's clear whatever metric was in place in Issue 5 when Mind's wings were clipped were reassessed later. Mass Confusion should probably have a recharge around 120-145 seconds given what it does.

 

It's probably also true though that Plant Control should not have a Scale 20 mezz on a 60 second recharge. LOL. I wouldn't want to consider nerfing that though unless Plant was given cushion somewhere else. Maybe its not very useful Sleep power or AoE Hold.

Edited by oedipus_tex
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Posted (edited)

Seeds should be toned down a little, and mass confusion should be toned up a lot.  Mass confusion should, in theory, be better than seeds as it's a level 32 spell.  I love confusion spells, and plant is the go-to for "I want to confuse as many things as I can as often as possible".  It's not difficult to hit most of a spawn with seeds.  I want to like MC, but I can get my jollies of confusing a group on a shorter cooldown by going plant.  Plus I get a pet!  I rarely have trouble with my pets running off and causing problems, even on a large team.  They are free DPS once summoned, and I won't ever say no to that!

 

I miss the days of having 3-4 packs of fire imps out at a time if that tells you what I think about pets, lol.  Give me multiple packs of coke-addicted fire monkies any day!

Edited by Senbonbanana
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Personally, I like pets and I would like Mind to get one.  I have 50s of grav, dark, and illusion.  I would rank the pets in that order as well.

 

If Mind is going to stay as it is, then Mass Confusion should be significantly improved to make it far better than plant control's Seeds of Confusion power.  It kinds stinks that the thing that is supposed to be your defining power is done better by another power set.

 

Plus, while I think the confuse powers are great, confuse itself is a GREAT single target hold, your still get grief when teaming if you use confuse a lot due to lost xp.  (yes, I know the argument that it isn't 'your' damage and that it is speeding you up.  When a phantasm or other pet takes something out, xp isn't reduced.  Plus, pets absorb alpha strikes nicely, confused enemies not so much.)

 

Now, for a pet, personally, I like the idea of a power that turns a confused enemy into a pet.  Maybe hit them with confuse and then you have to hit with another power.  (That way controllers can control a boss.  Limit on removing it from the mission.  Problem is when you have a mission critical person to defeat it cannot be them.  Think the Defeat Agent X and his Minions missions where you don't only have to take out Agent X but everyone else in the room)  Using that other power again releases it from the first one.

 

Or, a slendermanish nightmare thing would be fun.  Maybe based on the scrapper or stalker ATs?

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Given that Dominators have no way to heal/buff them like Controllers do, pets almost always feel too flimsy anyway.  And similarly, given Dominators already crank out plenty of damage, I end up questioning how much difference the pets really make (especially if aforementioned flimsiness means they're dead half the time anyway).  I think Mind/ honestly offers greater mileage for having wider utility instead.

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18 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

Given that Dominators have no way to heal/buff them like Controllers do, pets almost always feel too flimsy anyway.  And similarly, given Dominators already crank out plenty of damage, I end up questioning how much difference the pets really make (especially if aforementioned flimsiness means they're dead half the time anyway).  I think Mind/ honestly offers greater mileage for having wider utility instead.

 

My experience is very different as I mainly solo.  On my  two lvl 50 dominators, one grav/savage and the other dark/electricity assault, the pets really help.  While both have fire power, both don't have great defense despite being permadoms and IO sets.  If I can attack first and set up my controls, easy fight, they hit me first or an ambush, problem.  Singularity is a great pet, great controller and it is rarely defeated.  I never have to worry about being ambushed with Sing around and have turned around to see it doing well against an Elite Boss.  With my Dark/Electric I have 1 pet with that does not expire, umbral beast, and the duration pets with 2 for haunt and Voltaic Sentinel.  Umbral Beast has a decent survival and haunt does well, takes an alpha strike like a champ, and can be made permanent.  Voltiac Sentinel isn't great but it is more damage and worth the effort to keep summoning it when its duration is up.  

 

My 50 Ill/TA Controller always has his Phant up, even with the bugged tactics for it (it should not charge into melee), it helps, and Phantom Army is one of the best powers in the game.

 

I've got a Mind/Psi sitting at 34 right now.  It just isn't as fun as the ones I took to 50.  I think a pet would help.  Mass Confusion is lacking to me.

 

Solo, pets are great.  Grouping, they aren't as big of a deal, but, frankly, controllers and, to a lessor extent, dominators main powers aren't that important for a lot of teams due to the speed people go through mobs. 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/4/2021 at 3:12 PM, Lazarillo said:

Given that Dominators have no way to heal/buff them like Controllers do, pets almost always feel too flimsy anyway.  

True for many Dominators. 

but Plant Control does well again here.  

Tree of Life / Spirit Tree / whatever it's called, is quite good, and if you're Permadom you can easily keep two Trees of Life up at once. Your pets will be quite durable inside that. 

Edited by MTeague
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

Mind control's lack of a pet is not its problem. It that it's signature power is eclipsed by a level 8 power in plant control.

So much this. 

 

I know the Devs have said that branching "you can either choose power A - OR - power B" caused them a lot of grief and it's not a door they want to open again. 

But I do think some of that could help in a lot of these situations.

 

I cant think of any power in Mind that I would be willing to give up for a pet except Teleknesis.

I use EVERY other power in Mind and I want to keep them all.  And my Mind Controller is my main. 

And even TK, I have hopes that they can salvage that power by other means... if they change it from Repel away, and instead make it an Attract Toward (attract other enemies toward the anchor target, not toward you the player)  like new Singularity does, that could totally change how people feel about Teleknesis.

 

But I get that there IS a sizeable chunk of people out there who do want a permanent summonable pet. 

Perhaps the branching choices, even if currently unfavored by the devs, really does need to be looked at again for the long haul.

 

Edited by MTeague
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Posted (edited)

Maybe a power like the DAoC sorceror had that allowed you to make almost any mob into a controllable pet for a while. Kind of like confuse, but with pet controls. It could last anywhere from 5 minutes or until you zoned.

Edited by Marshal_General
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I'm not against tweaks to Mind Control since it is an original powerset and Plant being a later set does outclass it.  For someone that knows how to play Mind Control well though the limitations are not what some perceive them to be and we can do quite a bit more than Plant in some areas. 

 

I do agree it is bullshit that Plant gets a very large cone confuse at level 8 that recharges faster than Mind's signature power.  I would not reduce the recharge on Mass Confusion in any way, I can see it being OP as soon as that would hit the market, but I wouldn't be against adding some kind of other affect to it be it a damage proc or debuff or something.  Then the Seeds recharge would have to be raised quite a bit.  

 

I'd also like to see TK get some tweak to something like that new gravity pet and likely the target cap raised from 5 to at least 8.  No allowable IO sets still though, pulsing procs would be too strong I'd think.   And then maybe move levitate down to t4 and up confuse and dominate to t2 and t3.  No pets needed though.

 

 

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I would love to see a power called Compel Allegiance.

"Oh Mr Tsoo Sorcerer! Would you mind huricaning the crap out of those guys?"

"Not at all boss"

"Um Chiang, What are you doing?"

"Arrrgggg!!!!!!"

 

It is called Mind Control though it plays more as Sleep Aid.

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I think what makes the Plant situation so egregious is that Mind Control once did have similar uptime on its powers. That was nerfed in Issue 5. Then Plant Control showed up in City of Villains with super generous Recharge times.

 

I do think that because Seeds is a cone and it alerts enemies that it should have faster Recharge than Mass Confusion. However, 240 seconds has always been too long a Recharge for Mass Confusion. We now have actual nukes with a 145 recharge for sure Mass Confuse shouldn't take longer to recharge than that.

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No pet.

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formerly @JimmyVine (on Infinity & Victory)

currently @Cenozoic (on Reunion)

 

Cenozoic (Mind/Psionic Dominator) ... Los Infiernos (Fire/Devices Blaster) ... Slof (Stone/Spines Tanker) ... Zen's Furnace (Illusion/Dark Controller) ... Cryovolcano (Earth/Cold Controller)

 

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I think we should leave Plant Control alone and focus more on Mind Control. 

I would love to see Telekinesis get switched out with Mass Levitate.  I think the Mind Control version should have the same recharge as Telekinesis but instead of it being 10 meters like the Psionic Melee version it should extend to a 20 meter radius and dish out 6 Knock Up instead of Mass Levitate's 4.15 Knock up.  I also think it should dish out -To Hit or -DMG but I would prefer -To Hit.

I also think Mass Confusion's recharge time should be dramatically shaved down to either 90 or 120 seconds.

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