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Noob questions about DEFENSE vs RESISTANCE


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Hi all,

 

I have recently started playing coh again and I am still a bit noob. My current character is a STONE GRANITE / SS. I was wondering if it is better to raise some DEFENSE further or try to raise the PSIONIC RESISTANCE as much as possible. In my current build I have 90% of all RESISTANCE except PSIONIC at the expense of some DEFENSE (in particular ranged, melee and AOE). Focusing on PSIONIC RESISTANCE I can slightly exceed 80%, I should follow this approach or lower it a little in favor of DEFENSE (tanged, melee, aoe, fire, cold). Since I have no idea about the end game, I would like some advice about it.

In other words, is there a minimum in each DEFENSE absolutely necessary to tank the end game or is it enough to max out the RESISTANCE as much as possible?

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Tark083 said:
 

Hi all,

 

I have recently started playing coh again and I am still a bit noob. My current character is a STONE GRANITE / SS. I was wondering if it is better to raise some DEFENSE further or try to raise the PSIONIC RESISTANCE as much as possible. In my current build I have 90% of all RESISTANCE except PSIONIC at the expense of some DEFENSE (in particular ranged, melee and AOE). Focusing on PSIONIC RESISTANCE I can slightly exceed 80%, I should follow this approach or lower it a little in favor of DEFENSE (tanged, melee, aoe, fire, cold). Since I have no idea about the end game, I would like some advice about it.

In other words, is there a minimum in each DEFENSE absolutely necessary to tank the end game or is it enough to max out the RESISTANCE as much as possible?

 

 

 

 

What defense are you currently at?


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Posted (edited)

Alright as a tanker your resistance hard cap ie 90% which you share with Brutes (Heats/Veats have 85%, and everyone else has 75%). Defense wise you can achieve the same softcap as everyone else for non incarnate content at 45%.

 

Note I used the phrases hard cap and softcap. Hard cap references resistance as you can build to the cap, but any extra is useless. Softcap references defense, and you can build over cap although only enough to make it 45% is used in non-incarnate content, the excess is used in the event you are debuffed.

 

Resistance is all types, defense is either typed or positional, or sometimes targets all.

 

Stone Armor as you are experiencing is already pretty survivable out of the box because of Granite. You can use an aegis proc or imperium among set bonuses to increase your psi resistance or you can chase defense if you feel you need it.

 

Mathematically resistance and defense are similar if you think that 2% resistance equals 1% defense, so keeping in mind our hard cap and softcap you can build towards whatever will get you closer to the respective cap.

 

And yes having some defense and some resistance essentially stack so having 45% defense blocks typically 90% of even con attacks. The 10% that get through then encounter your resistance, so that number can be reduced based on your resistance values.

 

It's worth noting that higher conned npcs will overcome defense easier, so there's an incarnate softcap of ~53.5% if I recall correctly that shields you in incarnate content.

Otherwise there's mobs that debuff defense and resistance out there too.

 

Another layer to your survivability is your Regen, and rankers have a high hp cap that you can build towards with +HP and trying to make Earth's Embrace Perma, along with getting state boosting accolades.

 

You can further enhance your mitigation via your attacks and aura like mud pots which you can slot a chance for do knockdown in, and it already slows the targets attack rate. Otherwise you can always go for darkest night in your epp/app choice but it's likely overkill.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by SeraphimKensai
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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

incarnate softcap of ~53.5%

59%, but that also assumes no +to-hit buffs on the mobs.

 

Did anyone else read the OP in a TTS voice, or was it just me?

 

Edit to add: Since I just realized that nobody referenced it, a good place for the OP to look for a more detailed explanation is the Attack Mechanics section in the wiki, and the linked Defense page that explains that the highest defense is used so you don't need to worry about melee, ranged, and aoe defense if all the types are covered.

Edited by siolfir
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Posted (edited)

The main thing to remember is that resistance always works.

Defense on the other hand, not so much.

Mobs will always have a 5%+ chance to hit you based on their level compared to yours along with if they are above minion.

After so many misses the game forces a hit, so you will get hit.

This does not count mobs with autohit attacks.

Then there is defense debuffs, that can lower your defense unless you are Super Reflexes.

 

I have been one shot in a SSB as a SR tanker with buffed 72% defense.

Edited by Marshal_General
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10 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

The main thing to remember is that resistance always works.

That's a good thing to remember, but the best thing to remember is that you want a layered defense: the best performance is from the sets that mix defense, resistance, and either absorb, regeneration, or healing (preferably all) to take care of/ignore the hits that get do through. The rest of your post is accurate enough, but telling them to remember that resistance always works? I find that a bit misleading. Here's why:

 

A pure resistance set is only consistent until the debuffs start piling on: getting hit with defense debuffs means that 50% chance for even-con minions (higher for higher ranks or levels) to hit turns into the 95% cap really quickly, effectively doubling the damage you take. Cascade defense failure is talked about with defense sets that aren't Super Reflexes, but it affects resistance sets more often because they're more likely to get hit by the debuffs - including resistance debuffs - in the first place. That's why in AFK performance tests, which really just count how often you take damage and how much you take while just sitting there, resistance sets fall to the bottom while defense sets are in the middle, and layered sets (Stone) including the ones with lesser numbers that scale to enemies around them (Willpower, Invulnerability, Bio*) are at the top: you can compensate for this using other powers, adding some other layers through IOs and/or other powers, or using the in-set heals that every "pure" resistance set has.

 

 

* - yes, even without all the clicks, Bio performs well; on SOs I was going AFK in efficient mode on a Brute against +3/x8 in the mid 30s

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On 5/23/2021 at 6:41 AM, Marshal_General said:

The main thing to remember is that resistance always works.

Defense on the other hand, not so much.


I'll second this. IMO, a defense based build is fine until it isn't, and when it isn't things can get drastic real quick. I'm not saying that is a show stopper at all, but it is something to think about.

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On 5/22/2021 at 4:22 PM, Tark083 said:
 

Hi all,

 

I have recently started playing coh again and I am still a bit noob. My current character is a STONE GRANITE / SS. I was wondering if it is better to raise some DEFENSE further or try to raise the PSIONIC RESISTANCE as much as possible. In my current build I have 90% of all RESISTANCE except PSIONIC at the expense of some DEFENSE (in particular ranged, melee and AOE). Focusing on PSIONIC RESISTANCE I can slightly exceed 80%, I should follow this approach or lower it a little in favor of DEFENSE (tanged, melee, aoe, fire, cold). Since I have no idea about the end game, I would like some advice about it.

In other words, is there a minimum in each DEFENSE absolutely necessary to tank the end game or is it enough to max out the RESISTANCE as much as possible?


If you're above 45% Defense (or 59% for Incarnate Content), you're better off working on your Resistance.

More defense above that point gives you a buffer Defense debuffs and Cascading Defense Failures.
But that's still not as valuable as cranking your Resistance.

 

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If you want to be godlike, pick anything.

If you want to be GOD, pick a TANK!

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Knew I had a Stone/SS Tank!  And he's JACKED!

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Archie Bunker: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Stone Skin -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-End/Res(3), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(3), GldArm-3defTpProc(5), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(5), ImpArm-ResPsi(7)
Level 1: Jab -- GldStr-Acc/Dmg(A), GldStr-Dam/Rech(7), GldStr-Dam/End/Rech(9), GldStr-Acc/End/Rech(9), GldStr-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(11)
Level 2: Earth's Embrace -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(13), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(13), Pnc-Heal(15), ImpArm-ResPsi(15)
Level 4: Haymaker -- GldStr-Acc/Dmg(A), GldStr-Dam/Rech(21), GldStr-Dam/End/Rech(23), GldStr-Acc/End/Rech(23), GldStr-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(25), GldStr-%Dam(25)
Level 6: Mud Pots -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(27), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg(27), ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg(29), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), ScrDrv-Dam%(31)
Level 8: Rooted -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(31), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(33), Pnc-Heal(33)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(A), PrfZng-Dam%(33)
Level 12: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 14: Tough -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-End/Res(34), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(34), GldArm-RechRes(34), ImpArm-ResPsi(36)
Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(36), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(36), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(37)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Rct-ResDam%(39)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Acc/Rchg(40), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Hct-Dam%(40)
Level 22: Teleport -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 24: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(42)
Level 26: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 30: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Granite Armor -- Rct-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(43), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(43), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(43), GldArm-End/Res(45), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(45)
Level 35: Hurl -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(45), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Apc-Acc/Rchg(46), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Apc-Dam%(48)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(48), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Arm-Acc/Rchg(50), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Arm-Dam%(50)
Level 41: Rock Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 44: Crystal Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Minerals -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Brimstone Armor -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A), Run-I(17)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(17), Mrc-Rcvry+(19)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(19), EndMod-I(21)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Longbow Core Superior Ally
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
------------

 

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If you want to be godlike, pick anything.

If you want to be GOD, pick a TANK!

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