Mind Control, Dom vs Controller Solo

[Rinwen]

Hello, folks, 

 

So, despite any weaknesses to the set, I really enjoy Mind Control.

 

Since I much prefer using the Mind Control powers for attacking vs a Dom's secondary attack powers, for solo play, who would have an easier ride using only the Mind Control powers for attacking; Dom or Controller? 

 

With a Controller I would take Force Field as my "Telekinetic" side which lends a lot to a Telepathic/Telekinetic hero concept. 

 

With a Dom, which I already have, with Psi Assault, though I rarely use those powers since things tend to die whilst juggling control powers amongst the group of bad guys without using my secondary, IMHO I more thematically have a pure Telepathic hero.

 

Themes aside, I know that Controllers get double damage on enemies with status effects, Doms can, eventually, get Perma-Dom. 

 

Forgetting Perma-Dom for the ride to 50, since odds are you can't get there much before, if at all, before 50... not to mention that I'm not flush with cash, lol.

 

So who kills/levels faster in this case of only using the primary set to attack; Doms or Controllers? 

 

Thanks folks. 

 

 

[EmperorSteele]

It depends on your secondary and what pools you take. I mean, a Mind/Kin is gonna outdamage a Mind/anything else, at the expense of things Kin doesn't provide.

[Rinwen]

14 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

It depends on your secondary and what pools you take. I mean, a Mind/Kin is gonna outdamage a Mind/anything else, at the expense of things Kin doesn't provide.

 

Thank you.

 

The only options I'm considering for an admittedly thematically governed, not min/max character are:

Mind/FF Controller 

Mind/Psi Dom

 

The /FF is more for the extra control/defense; Force Bolt, Detention Field, Repulsion Bubble, etc than any attacking.  The attacking will all be from the primary Mind Control set.

[Psyonico]

I've soloed Mind/FF, it's a bit of a slog.

 

Here's the deets.

 

Controllers have a ranged damage modifier of .55, Dominators have a ranged modifier of .95.  Based purely on this, Dominators win.  HOWEVER, containment means that the controller will be doing (slightly) more damage to held/slept/immob/stunned foes.  Solo, since you can open every fight with Mass Hypnosis, that basically means whatever you're fighting will always have containment.

 

So, long and short of it? It probably more or less breaks even.

[Rinwen]

2 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

I've soloed Mind/FF, it's a bit of a slog.

 

Here's the deets.

 

Controllers have a ranged damage modifier of .55, Dominators have a ranged modifier of .95.  Based purely on this, Dominators win.  HOWEVER, containment means that the controller will be doing (slightly) more damage to held/slept/immob/stunned foes.  Solo, since you can open every fight with Mass Hypnosis, that basically means whatever you're fighting will always have containment.

 

So, long and short of it? It probably more or less breaks even.

Thank you very much.

 

Probably invest my time/effort/money in the Controller than since it's more or less even... since I much prefer the Telekinetic control/defense aspect of /FF than I do the added attacks of the Dom secondary powers. 

 

For what I'm looking for, that fits better.

 

Oh, and I know it'll be a slog, more or less either way, but this particular character isn't necessarily about fast kills/leveling... I was just hoping that the answer wasn't going to be "X is orders of magnitude better than Y," lol.

 

This is just a fun, thematic character. 

 

Actually, all of mine are, but some are faster/sturdier, and some aren't... all have been fun so far.

 

My questions tend to be more about wanting to avoid catastrophic mistakes.  :)

[EmperorSteele]

Ah!

 

Well if the comparison is just for those two, then @Psyonico hit it on the head.

 

Going a step further, Mind (along with Gravity especially) is a bit counterintuitive on Doms, since it gives you a single target attack chain right out of the gate and doesn't really need more offense. The only thing /Psi offers is an AoE attack or two and Link Minds (or is it Mind Link?), which is actually still pretty good, all things considered.

Edited May 24, 2021 by EmperorSteele
Typo

[MTeague]

7 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

Ah!

 

Well if the comparison is just for those two, then @Psyonico hit it on the head.

 

Going a step further, Mind (along with Gravity especially) is a bit counterintuitive on Doms, since if gives you a single target attack chain right out of the gate and doesn't really need more offense. The only thing /Psi offers is an AoE attack or two and Link Minds (or is it Mind Link?), which is actually still pretty good, all things considered.

 

Dominator / Psi EPIC pool has Link Minds. 

Dominator / Psi Assault has Drain Psyche (crown jewel, honestly), and Psionic Shock Wave (close 2nd).  TK Thrust I also think is underrated, and still makes a nice damaging interruptor with a KB-to-KD in place, and a great "Get Outta My FACE!!!" without a KB-to-KD.

 

But it does sound like @Rinwen would probably not use much other than Drain Psyche from Psi Assault.

[EmperorSteele]

Ah! I knew I had those in my own /psi dom, but i forgot which power came from where, thanks for the correction!

[Rinwen]

3 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

Ah!

 

Well if the comparison is just for those two, then @Psyonico hit it on the head.

 

Going a step further, Mind (along with Gravity especially) is a bit counterintuitive on Doms, since if gives you a single target attack chain right out of the gate and doesn't really need more offense. The only thing /Psi offers is an AoE attack or two and Link Minds (or is it Mind Link?), which is actually still pretty good, all things considered.

 

That was a large part of my, "Huh?" with Doms.  Mostly using Mass Hypnosis, Confuse, Dominate, Levitate, and Mesmerize... juggling amongst the bad guys... those things kill them, while keeping them controlled the whole time, (more or less... I'm looking at you, "MISS," lol)... nary a need for the secondary other than a, "got it, may as well use it," thought process. 

 

Looks like it'll be Mind/FF Controller... awww... who'm'I  kidding... with my raging Alt-O-Holism, both with see play time.  The Controller will just get more time and more investment. 

 

As for Gravity... love the theme, love, LOVE Propel, but absolutely hate immobilizes that still allow mobs to attack from range, or force me to maneuver/back pedal if they got to melee range before I can immobilize them. 

 

That's why I love Mind so much... for soloing a sleep is as effective as a hold... I won't break my own sleeps.

 

That's a different story though.  :)

 

Thanks. 

[MTeague]

I mean, Immobs are ok. 

I'd rather a Lost Lieutentant pulled out a pistol a pew-pew'd me, than whipped out the Buick-sized razor sword and bisected me in one swing. 

Is something to be said for "you stay over there."

 

But I reallllly favor Confuse (best of all), Holds (solid), Sleeps (will wake up, but not until I do something) for safe full lockdown.

Fear (via Terrify at 26) is not too shabby either. 

 

Sleeps are mostly an issue with teams, because teams typically have lots of area damage flying around and things WILL get woken up. 

But does sound like you're mostly soloing.

 

I would recommend at some point you try Mind/Kin.  Esp for a soloer, I think you'll like the toolkit. 

But I get that that would not fit your current character's concept.  Just something for the backlog.  You know. Alt #417  😄

 

[Rinwen]

1 minute ago, MTeague said:

I mean, Immobs are ok. 

I'd rather a Lost Lieutentant pulled out a pistol a pew-pew'd me, than whipped out the Buick-sized razor sword and bisected me in one swing. 

Is something to be said for "you stay over there."

 

But I reallllly favor Confuse (best of all), Holds (solid), Sleeps (will wake up, but not until I do something) for safe full lockdown.

Fear (via Terrify at 26) is not too shabby either. 

 

Sleeps are mostly an issue with teams, because teams typically have lots of area damage flying around and things WILL get woken up. 

But does sound like you're mostly soloing.

 

I would recommend at some point you try Mind/Kin.  Esp for a soloer, I think you'll like the toolkit. 

But I get that that would not fit your current character's concept.  Just something for the backlog.  You know. Alt #417  😄

 

 

I have solo build characters, and more group oriented characters, (probably like many others do as well), and my Grav is more for teaming, for exactly what you said... all the mayhem and chaos of groups breaks sleeps, lol.

 

Though I of course totally agree on the pew pew vs evisceration aspect.  :)

 

Actually, conceptually, and with regard to maybe not wanting a lot of secondary power picks... Repel at Lv 8 for /Kin is very thematic. 

 

I've wrestled with /kin vs /FF for that very reason, but as you say, I think there are more thematic "Telekinetic" powers in /FF than in /Kin.

 

[Rinwen]

15 minutes ago, MTeague said:

I mean, Immobs are ok. 

I'd rather a Lost Lieutentant pulled out a pistol a pew-pew'd me, than whipped out the Buick-sized razor sword and bisected me in one swing. 

Is something to be said for "you stay over there."

 

But I reallllly favor Confuse (best of all), Holds (solid), Sleeps (will wake up, but not until I do something) for safe full lockdown.

Fear (via Terrify at 26) is not too shabby either. 

 

Sleeps are mostly an issue with teams, because teams typically have lots of area damage flying around and things WILL get woken up. 

But does sound like you're mostly soloing.

 

I would recommend at some point you try Mind/Kin.  Esp for a soloer, I think you'll like the toolkit. 

But I get that that would not fit your current character's concept.  Just something for the backlog.  You know. Alt #417  😄

 

 

Oh, and I have so many alts it's not even funny... fun, yes... funNY, no, lol.

 

S'why I rely on the test server so much... to cull the herd a bit, or just play there with already fleshed out characters; especially ones that may not come into their own until 20's/30's or so... I just insta-level them to X level, give them basic crafted IOs to start, then start hammering bad guys.

[oedipus_tex]

Don't forget you could skip Mind Control on Dominator or Controller, take the Psi APP as a Defender or Corruptor, and still get Dominate, Mass Hypnosis, and Telekinesis.

[Mezmera]

There's not many Mind powers that have actual substantial damage though, the only aoe one is terrify with minor damage.  You shouldn't be dependent on damage from Mind in all honesty.  It's the uber control you get from being perma dom that'll carry you through.  Plus then you can proc the longer charging aoe controls like the hold and confuse, but that'd still equate the same be it controller or dominator.  

 

To me its that the dom has access to more aoe assault powers through their secondary and epic powers.  Heck my dom has its own mini Fulcrum Shift in Soul Drain that also does great damage on top of boosting my damage and tohitt.  

 

The base damage of doms plus the instantaneous control that Mind nets you with Domination running really carries the day to damage at your leisure.  No amount of moderate ST damage from a containment proc'ing can make up for the base and all of the other tools in the kit for doms.  

 

Doms all the way baby!

 

But in terms of purely damage solely from their primary it's likely evened out with containment equating in.  

Edited May 24, 2021 by Mezmera

[Blackbird71]

10 hours ago, Rinwen said:

Looks like it'll be Mind/FF Controller... awww... who'm'I  kidding... with my raging Alt-O-Holism, both with see play time.  The Controller will just get more time and more investment. 

 

I know what you mean.  My usual approach is to play an alt somewhere into the 20s just using whatever enhancements drop as I play.  It doesn't take too long to get there, and by then I can usually tell if I'm going to enjoy continuing to play the character or not.  It makes a good gauge of which alts I want to take further and actually spend some Inf on.